Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Does that apply to the rest of the world as well, or just Scotland ? 

Other countries, Germany, Spain and Portugal to name just a few have not applied such a draconian approach to hospitality. Nightclubs , bars and restaurants all re-opened.  Bars can restaurants still serve alcohol until 10pm or 11pm in Spain,  Portugal etc even during Christmas restrictions.  Of course, some of the same issues are being wrestled with across the world but I'll bet very few countries have had dull, doom laden, repetitive monologues every lunchtime since March.

[luckydug]

19 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Other countries, Germany, Spain and Portugal to name just a few have not applied such a draconian approach to hospitality. Nightclubs , bars and restaurants all re-opened.  Bars can restaurants still serve alcohol until 10pm or 11pm in Spain,  Portugal etc even during Christmas restrictions.  Of course, some of the same issues are being wrestled with across the world but I'll bet very few countries have had dull, doom laden, repetitive monologues every lunchtime since March.

In other words you are pissed off because the pubs are shut.

[Pasquale for King]

This is an interesting advert for this thread 😆

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Heard today about one of my wife's friends and her family - they've barely been outside their own house/garden since March. They also have a 6 year old daughter. None of them, AFAIA, have medical conditions necessitating such an approach. The fear has hit them particularly hard and they're causing untold damage to their child's confidence and well-being. And yet, they'd probably be lauded as model citizens by some.

They got " the fear" big time... incredibly sad. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, luckydug said:

In other words you are pissed off because the pubs are shut.

Along with most of the country and the many thousands whose jobs depend on hospitality. ...absolutely yes. I'm also pi**ed off at the scaremongering campaign led by the govts and scientists,  the false modelling and the subsequent effect it has had on the economy,  health and morale of the population.  The daily lunchtime "Watch with Mother" slots are probably watched by less and less people now but, yes, the condascending tone is unique to Scotland I think and does pi** off those who watch it.

[luckydug]

23 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Step 1 - put anyone who puts up a straw man-ish argument to criticism of pandemic handling against the wall, Russian monarchy style

 

Step 2 - not bothered, really, once Step 1 is complete I can pull out a fat Cuban, an Islay single malt, call up a yoga instructor turning tricks to make ends meet and rest happy.

 

~~~

 

Seriously, though? Could it not be that the boom-and-bust lockdown-then-open strategy has been proven not to work, given we are experiencing 'waves' of infections. 

 

Alternatives might be planned, supported shielding / genuine herd immunity / alternate day access to cities and workplaces / compulsory mass testing... but if we've had one lockdown, followed by a bit of freedom, followed by things going mammaries skywards again, followed by a sort of damacletian finger wagging/you wanna smoke? smoke the whole pack then! style message we've got to now, then you have to consider the possibility that the current knee-jerk, media-fearing, frustrated-because-we-spent-the-last-thirty-years-educating-people-to-think-critically-but-now-can't-do-a Xi-Jinping-and-actually-lock-folk-in-their-homes situation ain't working.

I just think our leaders are cautious because they don't want the extreme forecasts of half a million deaths which some sources claimed

Would happen to come true on their watch.

Herd immunity is/was too big a risk in their view.

As I've said before its easy to criticise without having the responsibility. 

 

 

[JyTees]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

Heard today about one of my wife's friends and her family - they've barely been outside their own house/garden since March. They also have a 6 year old daughter. None of them, AFAIA, have medical conditions necessitating such an approach. The fear has hit them particularly hard and they're causing untold damage to their child's confidence and well-being. And yet, they'd probably be lauded as model citizens by some.

 

Frightening. A generation of neurotic agoraphobics just one of the many long term consequences that'll make "the pandemic" look like a cake walk.

[luckydug]

4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Along with most of the country and the many thousands whose jobs depend on hospitality. ...absolutely yes. I'm also pi**ed off at the scaremongering campaign led by the govts and scientists,  the false modelling and the subsequent effect it has had on the economy,  health and morale of the population.  The daily lunchtime "Watch with Mother" slots are probably watched by less and less people now but, yes, the condascending tone is unique to Scotland I think and does pi** off those who watch it.

Do you honestly believe governments are deliberately setting out to trash their economy. 

BTW I watched my first WWM today and only because my wife wanted to find out if East Lothian was going up to tier 3.

I was bored rigid.

I won't be watching again.

You could try switching off if she annoys you so much.

NS,BJ and the other leaders are genuinely doing what they think is best.

It's easy to criticise which seems to be a National pastime in the UK at the moment.

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, jonesy said:

 

Good to hear. 

 

I thought strange allusions were what David Blaine does?

 

You're just a good example of a loyal SNP parrot. If it makes you more comfortable I won't mention you anymore, Dougie.  

 

Clearly you did not understand my post. I said your references to me should concern you.  I'm not uncomfortable with it although i am quite sure it is your intention that i should be. That's five unprovoked attempts at insults now. 

   Please don't pretend to do me any favours. You should stop this behaviour simply because it is an inappropriate attempt to bully and against the forum rules.

[luckydug]

4 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

Frightening. A generation of neurotic agoraphobics just one of the many long term consequences that'll make "the pandemic" look like a cake walk.

You actually believe Jonesy's posts .

😂😂😂😂

[Maroon Sailor]

23 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I just think our leaders are cautious because they don't want the extreme forecasts of half a million deaths which some sources claimed

Would happen to come true on their watch.

Herd immunity is/was too big a risk in their view.

As I've said before its easy to criticise without having the responsibility. 

 

 

 

It's easy to criticise when some of the policies make no sense.

 

They still seem to be working off the back of a fag packet.

 

Not denying it's an horrendous situation but nobody has covered themselves in glory.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Maroon Sailor

[JyTees]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

You actually believe Jonesy's posts .

😂😂😂😂

 

I think there's more merit to them than the pish being spouted 24 hours a day by governments and reinforced by the media.

 

You think people aren't living in fear?

[luckydug]

1 minute ago, JyTees said:

 

I think there's more merit to them than the pish being spouted 24 hours a day by governments and reinforced by the media.

 

You think people aren't living in fear?

You think governments shouldn't make people aware of the dangers the virus presents ?

Why is it you and others think that you know better than Scientists, Governments and worldwide media sources.

Are you one of those conspiracy theorists  ?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah I remember now, those car journeys into the wilderness 🙈. 

 

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah I remember now, those car journeys into the wilderness 🙈. 

You can tell it’s my favourite show due to my profile pic . I loved Livia Sopranos outlook on life !!! “ it’s all a big nothing “ ! 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

15 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Do you honestly believe governments are deliberately setting out to trash their economy. 

BTW I watched my first WWM today and only because my wife wanted to find out if East Lothian was going up to tier 3.

I was bored rigid.

I won't be watching again.

You could try switching off if she annoys you so much.

NS,BJ and the other leaders are genuinely doing what they think is best.

It's easy to criticise which seems to be a National pastime in the UK at the moment.

There are many times in history when leaders genuinely thought they were doing “ what they think is best “ ! They were proven wrong . I’ll not name them 

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Do you honestly believe governments are deliberately setting out to trash their economy. 

BTW I watched my first WWM today and only because my wife wanted to find out if East Lothian was going up to tier 3.

I was bored rigid.

I won't be watching again.

You could try switching off if she annoys you so much.

NS,BJ and the other leaders are genuinely doing what they think is best.

It's easy to criticise which seems to be a National pastime in the UK at the moment.

They are not deliberately setting out to trash the economy but their response to Covid is . It’s recklessness, coupled  with short term solutions which will have long term damaging consequences . IMO 

[JyTees]

21 minutes ago, luckydug said:

You think governments shouldn't make people aware of the dangers the virus presents ?

Why is it you and others think that you know better than Scientists, Governments and worldwide media sources.

Are you one of those conspiracy theorists  ?

 

I'm in agreement with a massive chunk of the scientific community, not all of whom agree with what governments are doing.

 

Do you trust the government implicitly? Without question? Blindly, some would say?

 

I don't do conspiracies btw.

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

 

You can tell it’s my favourite show due to my profile pic . I loved Livia Sopranos outlook on life !!! “ it’s all a big nothing “ ! 😂

I thought it was Stendel when he saw the squad he inherited 😜

[1971fozzy]

My dad caught it and he only ever went to pick up an evening news as he’s always done. 84 years old and thankfully fine now without having to go into hospital. But he lost 2 stones as his appetite went completely and was in bed most of the time. Miracle he’s ok (it seems) now. And he is living with prostate cancer and is also type 2 diabetic.

what I’m saying I guess is it seems pot luck where you can catch it and he has no idea. Also seems pot luck the type you get as if it had affected his lungs (which it didn’t) then I dread to think of the consequences. I genuinely think it’s baffled everyone and this is why there is all the confusion and paranoia because it’s still pretty much an unknown prognosis for whoever gets it. 

[ri Alban]

Do people actually think UK leaders are deliberately doing this to its people. Ffs, they need help. 

 

Brexit(Achieved) and Scottish independence(Tick Tock) are both policies of government aspirations, not this. 

 

 

@jonesy nice fable. 

[FWJ]

I wonder if any of the let-it-rip advocates will also be the ones to choose who gets an ITU bed and who gets a trolley in a corridor.

I suspect none.

[Enzo Chiefo]

7 hours ago, luckydug said:

Do you honestly believe governments are deliberately setting out to trash their economy. 

BTW I watched my first WWM today and only because my wife wanted to find out if East Lothian was going up to tier 3.

I was bored rigid.

I won't be watching again.

You could try switching off if she annoys you so much.

NS,BJ and the other leaders are genuinely doing what they think is best.

It's easy to criticise which seems to be a National pastime in the UK at the moment.

No, of course not deliberately but they are focussing only on Covid to the detriment of other illnesses, diseases etc and the economy. By thinking the world revolves around a Covid response they are tanking everything else and it's all to do with the Public Inquiry coming down the tracks. Backside covering of the highest order. They need to start applying a degree of common sense. You're right though, perhaps the best option for the WWM lunchtime briefings is to hit the Off switch. 

[Dazo]

2 hours ago, FWJ said:

I wonder if any of the let-it-rip advocates will also be the ones to choose who gets an ITU bed and who gets a trolley in a corridor.

I suspect none.

Does anyone genuinely want it to let it rip ? I suspect none. 
 

We need a better balance though and her deciding who can have a drink and when or who can sell alcohol is nothing to do with balance. 

[GinRummy]

As we are hopefully coming to an end to this in the next few months, the real argument now is if the long term effects of lockdown end up worse than the effects of covid. Missed hospital appointments, reduced GP services, mental health issues and the financial impact all could take decades until the full effects are known. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by GinRummy

[Nucky Thompson]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

As we are hopefully coming to an end to this in the next few months, the real argument now is if the long term effects of lockdown end up worse than the effects of covid. Missed hospital appointments, reduced GP services, mental health issues and the financial impact all could take decades until the full effects are known. 

It's going to be carnage.

I understand the fear of Winter for the NHS. It's the same every single year and it wasn't going to take much to fill the hospitals above their normal Winter levels.

After this, they need to up taxes and invest a lot more into the NHS 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It's going to be carnage.

I understand the fear of Winter for the NHS. It's the same every single year and it wasn't going to take much to fill the hospitals above their normal Winter levels.

After this, they need to up taxes and invest a lot more into the NHS 

 

I agree. An extremely tricky balancing act ahead though. Raising taxes reduces spending and damages the economy. Reduced disposable income also directly effects the industries most damaged by lockdowns. Wouldn't like to be making those sort of decisions.

[Don Dan]

Wales are going to add 11,000 positive cases to today’s figures. These are cases that were never uploaded due to an IT issue and a change over of systems from last Friday. 

[theshed]

8 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

They are not deliberately setting out to trash the economy but their response to Covid is . It’s recklessness, coupled  with short term solutions which will have long term damaging consequences . IMO 

 

I agree they aren’t setting out to trash the economy but it’s easy to take the decision to shut everything when you have no money worries and will still be picking up a huge wage most people can only dream about 

 

I don’t think some people actually understand the long term damage this has cause as their head is in the sand and the people making these decisions will be long gone with their big lump sum pensions while we suffer for years to come 

[GinRummy]

5 minutes ago, Brian Dundas said:

Totally agree, that’s why we can’t do austerity to get economy sorted this time. We need to fund health and welfare to fix the population first. 

I just hope when the headlines change the government(s) realise this.

[doctor jambo]

So that’s me vaccinated .

no issues, my hair is lustrous and my wifi has improved 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Does anyone genuinely want it to let it rip ? I suspect none. 
 

We need a better balance though and her deciding who can have a drink and when or who can sell alcohol is nothing to do with balance. 

 

let rip is a term used by folk who have very limited understanding of alternative strategies to lockdown

 

not sure if it’s a lack of research or iq

 

apparently there’s some on here - I’ve seen none - at least 3 apparently 🙀

[The Real Maroonblood]

39 minutes ago, theshed said:

 

I agree they aren’t setting out to trash the economy but it’s easy to take the decision to shut everything when you have no money worries and will still be picking up a huge wage most people can only dream about 

 

I don’t think some people actually understand the long term damage this has cause as their head is in the sand and the people making these decisions will be long gone with their big lump sum pensions while we suffer for years to come 

Fair comment. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

So that’s me vaccinated .

no issues, my hair is lustrous and my wifi has improved 

What's your occupation?

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, Brian Dundas said:

There are at least 3 on here that want to let it rip.

 

TBH I would have thought that on a Hearts forum that getting in to see Hearts would have been highest on the list of priorities, but it seems it is all about pubs!!

 

The all about the pubs is such a cheap argument in an attempt to belittle people. What about the hospitality industry, the jobs or the freedom of sensible hard working people who might fancy a drink with or without a meal at this time of year ? The desperation to pigeon hole everyone who wants the pubs open into a bunch of lads piling into a pub to get smashed out their faces is embarrassing. Those people are still doing that but it’s into houses rather pubs so she has achieving nothing stopping restaurants and pubs selling alcohol. 

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

The all about the pubs is such a cheap argument in an attempt to belittle people. What about the hospitality industry, the jobs or the freedom of sensible hard working people who might fancy a drink with or without a meal at this time of year ? The desperation to pigeon hole everyone who wants the pubs open into a bunch of lads piling into a pub to get smashed out their faces is embarrassing. Those people are still doing that but it’s into houses rather pubs so she has achieving nothing stopping restaurants and pubs selling alcohol. 

 

Good post. The bit in bold has absolutely been the case.

 

23 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

28 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

So that’s me vaccinated .

no issues, my hair is lustrous and my wifi has improved 

What's your occupation?

 

[Maroon Sailor]

10 minutes ago, Dazo said:

 

The all about the pubs is such a cheap argument in an attempt to belittle people. What about the hospitality industry, the jobs or the freedom of sensible hard working people who might fancy a drink with or without a meal at this time of year ? The desperation to pigeon hole everyone who wants the pubs open into a bunch of lads piling into a pub to get smashed out their faces is embarrassing. Those people are still doing that but it’s into houses rather pubs so she has achieving nothing stopping restaurants and pubs selling alcohol. 

 

They can still congregate in a place of worship though

[cheetah]

30 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

What's your occupation?

 

[CavySlaveJambo]

17 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

They can still congregate in a place of worship though

With really strict guidelines.  

[Maroon Sailor]

2 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

With really strict guidelines.  

 

Same as restaurants then

[CavySlaveJambo]

2 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Same as restaurants then

It all depends on what restaurants have to do. Some will be the same and some will be different. 

[Dazo]

26 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Good post. The bit in bold has absolutely been the case.

 

 

 

It’s ****ing frightening on here that regardless of people’s political opinions that they back her when she shows a complete lack of respect for normal decent hard working people all over Scotland never mind Edinburgh. I’d just love her to stand there and explain how me going for a drink or meal and a bottle of wine with the mrs in a COVID safe environment is spreading this thing. While there are house parties all over the place having the time of their lives. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Dazo

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

It all depends on what restaurants have to do. Some will be the same and some will be different. 

Just like places of worship then. 
 

Think that’s what some people struggle to get. Places where people congregate whether alcohol is involved or not will have varying degree implementation of the guidelines. This is area that should be policed to allow all sectors to function as best they can. Nah just blame alcohol, despite numbers going up. 🙄

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

It all depends on what restaurants have to do. Some will be the same and some will be different. 

 

If the restaurants are open why can't they serve you alcohol?

 

To quote the experts about Christmas gatherings. Just because you can doesn't mean you should

 

Same should apply to having an alcoholic beverage with your meal

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 minutes ago, Dazo said:

It’s ****ing frightening on here that regardless of people’s political opinions that they back her when she shows a complete lack of respect for normal decent hard working people all over Scotland never mind Edinburgh. I’d just love her to stand there and explain how me going for a drink or meal and a bottle of wine with the mrs in a COVID safe environment is spreading this thing. While there are house parties all over the place having the time of their lives. 

Was out for a meal last Friday.

The meal was good but missed a couple of beers with it.

Just ridiculous. People aren’t going to get smashed.

Non alcoholic Heineken. Pish.

[Dazo]

Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Was out for a meal last Friday.

The meal was good but missed a couple of beers with it.

Just ridiculous. People aren’t going to get smashed.

Non alcoholic Heineken. Pish.

I’m the same, been out for a few 4 o’clock meals to support local restaurants but to be honest it’s a shite time and I miss a pint or bottle of wine with my meal. It’s ridiculous that any normal thinking person sees this as the way to go. 

[Victorian]

It's easy to deny that the idea is to 'let it rip'.  It's easy to cobble together a set of simple sounding alterative notions to replace the blunt tool of suppression.  Effectively the two are pretty similar.

 

You could formulate and carry out the world's best strategy of shielding the (always misunderstood and under estimated) cohort of those to be shielded,  but reducing the measures of suppression for those remaining will only lead to more spread,  more positive tests,  more self isolation,  more contact traced self isolation,  more absence from work and school,  more parents having to miss work for childcare,  more hospitalisations,  more deaths.

 

Another thing that's easy is to bemoan rising numbers and that lockdowns aren't working.  That locking down is failing to achieve it's purpose.  Try considering what it would be like without suppression measures.  

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I’m the same, been out for a few 4 o’clock meals to support local restaurants but to be honest it’s a shite time and I miss a pint or bottle of wine with my meal. It’s ridiculous that any normal thinking person sees this as the way to go. 

It cracks me up.😭😫

[OBE]

Scotland, over 1K infections a day with restrictions. Is there estimates showing what the daily infection rate could be if near normal service was resumed?

 

If current restrictions were lifted, I don't think Scotland has the NHS facilities, or more so, enough qualified personnel to cope with the inevitable increased transmissions.

 

We all want this virus to ***k off, but it thrives on our human instincts, we love to socialise...literally dying for a party...

 

 

 

 

[Dazo]

10 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It's easy to deny that the idea is to 'let it rip'.  It's easy to cobble together a set of simple sounding alterative notions to replace the blunt tool of suppression.  Effectively the two are pretty similar.

 

You could formulate and carry out the world's best strategy of shielding the (always misunderstood and under estimated) cohort of those to be shielded,  but reducing the measures of suppression for those remaining will only lead to more spread,  more positive tests,  more self isolation,  more contact traced self isolation,  more absence from work and school,  more parents having to miss work for childcare,  more hospitalisations,  more deaths.

 

Another thing that's easy is to bemoan rising numbers and that lockdowns aren't working.  That locking down is failing to achieve it's purpose.  Try considering what it would be like without suppression measures.  

You’re a conformist Vic so you’ll happily go along with whatever measures are in place and push the argument that way. I wonder how you’d feel if you ever did open your own business like you spoke about and it was impacted in such an aggressive manor. Regarding your last comment We aren’t locked down though, everywhere is open.

[Victorian]

5 minutes ago, OBE said:

Scotland, over 1K infections a day with restrictions. Is there estimates showing what the daily infection rate could be if near normal service was resumed?

 

If current restrictions were lifted, I don't think Scotland has the NHS facilities, or more so, enough qualified personnel to cope with the inevitable increased transmissions.

 

We all want this virus to ***k off, but it thrives on our human instincts, we love to socialise...literally dying for a party...

 

 

 

 

 

An often ignored point.  People go on about supposed spare capacity in the hospitals but they don't recognise the fact that a spare place is not really a spare place if it cannot to serviced by personnel.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Victorian