Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[Felix Lighter]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I'm not a statistician.

 

If 2020 was included in the 5 year average, then the excess deaths figure would be negative this year. The stats could therefore fail to highlight and trigger investigations into an increase in non covid deaths this year.

 

Apologies I thought you were for some reason.

 

Anyway, just to be clear. So, if 2020 covid deaths were included the average death rates would be lower?

Is that not what I said?

Trigger investigations into non covid deaths? Excess deaths, if we are to believe the stats, have been consistently up since early 2021 and I don't recall hearing about the results of any investigations. 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Felix Lighter

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Felix Lighter said:

 

Apologies I thought you were for some reason.

 

Anyway, just to be clear. So, if 2020 covid deaths were included the average death rates would be lower?

Is that not what I said? and if there are below average death rates why are you putting forward potential reasons for non-existent excess deaths? 

So, ignoring Govt. statistical mumbo jumbo, are we or are we not seeing excess deaths? 

Another thing, trigger investigations into non covid deaths? Excess deaths, if we are to believe the stats, have been consistently up since early 2021 and I don't recall hearing about the results of any investigations. 

Yes, there are excess deaths this year compared to the average (excluding 2020). I haven't looked at 2021 or 2022 stats.  I do seem to recall reading something about higher than expected flu deaths in 2022, due to the increase in face to face contact since the pandemic, so some investigations have taken place.

 

I suggest that you check either the NRS, NHS or Government publications over the last couple of years if you want more info.  I only looked at one spreadsheet. 

[Ray Gin]

31 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

My point is, why differentiate between Covid and the common cold nowadays?

 

If I had any cold like symptoms, I would keep away from vulnerable people anyway

 

But you can still pass on covid to vulnerable people after cold-like symptoms have gone.

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

I've had a look at the latest NRS death data for Scotland (stats available to mid September).  Scotland (and rUK) has experienced "excess deaths" compared to the five years average during 2023. It's roughly 6.5% (Eng & Wal) and 7.6% (Sco) above the average. Note that 2020 is excluded from the 5 year average due to extreme Covid numbers.

 

NRS reports on four main causes (Cancer, Dementia/Alzheimers, Circulatory, and Respiratory) plus "other causes" in addition to separate reporting for Covid. All the "cause" categories are showing an increase. Indeed 1,002 deaths due to Covid have been recorded this year. Covid deaths are included in the respiratory stats.  "Other Causes" are difficult to break down because of the range of issues involved, Liver disease, Kidney disease, Accidents, Poisons (including Drugs and Alcohol), MS, MND etc.

 

I think there is every possibility that the Pandemic resulted in late diagnosis of cancers, people being reluctant to seek help for heart conditions and possibly an increase in drug, alcohol and suicide deaths, although I can't find any stats to back that up.   The increase in waiting times in the NHS will also be a factor, with more people likely to die while waiting for treatment.

 

If there is any good news, the last couple of weeks data has seen death rates drop below the 5 year average for the corresponding weeks. 

cheers - yes that’s roughly what that conspiracy theorist was saying

 

on the causes of death he agreed with you that later treatment from nhs may have contributed to some / many but reckoned that the younger age groups (which apparently have excess deaths too) would less likely to be affected by nhs delays as they would generally be healthy - maybe that will be covered by suicide drugs etc
 

not sure where they manufactured their figures from but heart stroke and liver disease  seemed to be prominent causes with respiratory less so

the numbers they were reporting from Ireland were apparently higher than the rest of the uk which was why I was asking the poster from Ireland if it was news over there but appears not but to be fair the uk excess deaths don’t appear to be news here either particularly as a lot of very informed posters plus googlemeisters on here didn’t seem to know much about it

 

maybe we’ve just became a bit fatigued to people dying before their time again like it probably was pre-covid

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Footballfirst]

8 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

cheers - yes that’s roughly what that conspiracy theorist was saying

 

on the causes of death he agreed with you that later treatment from nhs may have contributed to some / many but reckoned that the younger age groups (which apparently have excess deaths too) would less likely to be affected by nhs delays as they would generally be healthy - maybe that will be covered by suicide drugs etc
 

not sure where they manufactured their figures from but heart stroke and liver disease  seemed to be prominent causes with respiratory less so

the numbers they were reporting from Ireland were apparently higher than the rest of the uk which was why I was asking the poster from Ireland if it was news over there but appears not but to be fair the uk excess deaths don’t appear to be news here either particularly as a lot of very informed posters plus googlemeisters on here didn’t seem to know much about it

 

maybe we’ve just became a bit fatigued to people dying before their time again like it probably was pre-covid

NRS has reported 46,559 deaths in Scotland so far this year, 3,386 above the 5 year average.

ONS has reported 419,089 deaths in England & Wales this year, 25,481 above the 5 year average.

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

You can still pass on cold to vulnerable people after cold-like symptoms have gone.

 

 

[Ulysses]

9 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

if the conspiracy theory was it was all hokum then the subsequent excess deaths come from interventions to control the imaginary virus including vaccines

 

 

tbf to this particular conspiracy nut job he wasn’t actually saying that - he was saying there’s been a big bunch of non-Covid excess deaths since the ‘end’ of the pandemic and next to no-one particularly the media don’t seem that bothered to talk about it - Ireland came up as one of the worst for non-Covid excess deaths since the ‘end’ of the pandemic to present day

 

sounds like it’s not been news in Ireland either so almost certainly just made up / cherry-picked bunkum

 

 

 

 

 

The problem isn't statistics; it's liars and bad-faith commentators.  Excess mortality hasn't been big news here, though there were a few media reports in February and March that people here more or less ignored.  I noticed a lot more flu around me last winter, and I had a visit to an ENT specialist in May who said it was the worst winter he could recall in 30 years for ENT illnesses.  Those are only anecdotes, but if the numbers showed more flu cases and flu deaths than normal I wouldn't be greatly surprised, and I wouldn't be particularly troubled, either.  What I would expect to see (and I am no expert) is that the same phenomenon would happen this winter but at a lower level, and then disappear out of the numbers next year.

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

the numbers they were reporting from Ireland were apparently higher than the rest of the uk 

 

 

Higher than the wait ****ing what now?   

[Taffin]

14 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I've had a few folk say to me lately that they've got/just had Covid.

Why are folk still testing for this FFS 

 

 

 

So they can tell people they've got/had Covid. File under Vegans.

[Ray Gin]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Higher than the wait ****ing what now?   

 

 

[Ulysses]

20 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

 

 

[Ron Burgundy]

40 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

So they can tell people they've got/had Covid. File under Vegans.

😄

[henryheart]

14 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I've had a few folk say to me lately that they've got/just had Covid.

Why are folk still testing for this FFS 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

So they can tell people they've got/had Covid. File under Vegans.

 

Why do some people still test? 

 

I developed symptoms this earlier this week and I took a test and am positive. I have a 96 year old father who lives alone at home and who nearly died from covid in 2021. Obviously I am in very regular contact with him and the last thing I want is for him is to have to go through the suffering he faced previously. 

 

He has suffered from cold like symptoms since and the impact from covid for the elderly can be much more severe. 

 

 It is pretty obvious really. 

 

PS I am not a vegan.

[Taffin]

5 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

 

Why do some people still test? 

 

I developed symptoms this earlier this week and I took a test and am positive. I have a 96 year old father who lives alone at home and who nearly died from covid in 2021. Obviously I am in very regular contact with him and the last thing I want is for him is to have to go through the suffering he faced previously. 

 

He has suffered from cold like symptoms since and the impact from covid for the elderly can be much more severe. 

 

 It is pretty obvious really. 

 

PS I am not a vegan.

 

Is it pretty obvious though? 

 

Common sense would say if you're ill (with anything you can pass) stay away from vulnerable people, positive Covid test or not. I don't get the purpose of the test.

 

Other than being able to say you've got Covid, how has it changed your actions? If it was negative would you go and see him knowing it was now likely the common cold, or flu?

[BlueRiver]

11 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Is it pretty obvious though? 

 

Common sense would say if you're ill (with anything you can pass) stay away from vulnerable people, positive Covid test or not. I don't get the purpose of the test.

 

Other than being able to say you've got Covid, how has it changed your actions? If it was negative would you go and see him knowing it was now likely the common cold, or flu?

 

Fully agree. I don't see much use in it unless you're in a workplace setting that has additional rules still in place regarding testing (do any still exist now?). 

 

If you're unwell, don't go spreading it. Folk should've been doing that prior to 2020 as a matter of course but there's too many workplace martyrs out there. 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

30 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Is it pretty obvious though? 

 

Common sense would say if you're ill (with anything you can pass) stay away from vulnerable people, positive Covid test or not. I don't get the purpose of the test.

 

Other than being able to say you've got Covid, how has it changed your actions? If it was negative would you go and see him knowing it was now likely the common cold, or flu?

 

As already said, you can no longer feel ill but still have Covid and still be able to pass it on. 

 

Testing allows you to check that you are safe to go around and visit a vulnerable person.

 

[henryheart]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Is it pretty obvious though? 

 

Common sense would say if you're ill (with anything you can pass) stay away from vulnerable people, positive Covid test or not. I don't get the purpose of the test.

 

Other than being able to say you've got Covid, how has it changed your actions? If it was negative would you go and see him knowing it was now likely the common cold, or flu?

 

The NHS advice on a common cold is that if you no long have symptoms you are not infectious. As of now, I feel ok and I have no obvious symptoms but I am still testing positive for covid. If I had not tested and instead assumed that I had a cold, I may have been at his house today unknowing passing it on.

 

If there is a testing system that helps in clarifying what illness you are suffering from (or not) and that can help in your decision making on when it is safe to visit elderly and vulnerable relatives then why not use it? 

 

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

As already said, you can no longer feel ill but still have Covid and still be able to pass it on. 

 

Testing allows you to check that you are safe to go around and visit a vulnerable person.

 

 

I get it if you are routinely testing despite having no symptoms. That part made sense to me.

 

However you felt ill presumably therefore having symptoms on Monday or Tuesday, so common cold, flu or Covid there's a high chance you could pass it on still. So what benefit did the test bring?

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, henryheart said:

 

The NHS advice on a common cold is that if you no long have symptoms you are not infectious. As of now, I feel ok and I have no obvious symptoms but I am still testing positive for covid. If I had not tested and instead assumed that I had a cold, I may have been at his house today unknowing passing it on.

 

If there is a testing system that helps in clarifying what illness you are suffering from (or not) and that can help in your decision making on when it is safe to visit elderly and vulnerable relatives then why not use it? 

 

 

Just now, Taffin said:

 

I get it if you are routinely testing despite having no symptoms. That part made sense to me.

 

However you felt ill presumably therefore having symptoms on Monday or Tuesday, so common cold, flu or Covid there's a high chance you could pass it on still. So what benefit did the test bring?

 

 

Quoted the wrong post.

 

So you'd be happy having cold or flu symptoms but visiting a vulnerable elderly person a mere 24 to 48 hours later simply because you now feel okay?

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

 

 

[XB52]

Covid conspiracy nut surgeon has been struck off. Happy days

[Tommy Brown]

Finally tested positive for 1st time.

Gutted, I have low imunity.

Thoughts and prayers.

[Nucky Thompson]

48 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said:

Finally tested positive for 1st time.

 

Badge of honour 

[escobri]

Roland rat is a disgusting little creature. Bring the f@cking noise.

 

[escobri]

 

 

[Jeffros Furios]

[Malinga the Swinga]

50 minutes ago, escobri said:

Roland rat is a disgusting little creature. Bring the f@cking noise.

 

To be fair to PM, having listened to the whining audience, I'd let them rot. Deserve nothing but contempt. 

Only other question is why would anyone watch that channel in first place?

[Ulysses]

[il Duce McTarkin]

[That thing you do]

7 hours ago, escobri said:

Roland rat is a disgusting little creature. Bring the f@cking noise.

 

And yet I posted about a new disease being caused by the jab and everyone piled in to criticise the host of the podcast talking about it. Now we see there actually are issues causing amputations and all sorts.

 

Theres now doctors in several countries saying a rubbery white substance is growing and seen in veins of deceased that were jabbed.

 

If the post office scandal teaches is anything its people in power are capable of a cover up.

[Ulysses]

[escobri]

13 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

To be fair to PM, having listened to the whining audience, I'd let them rot. Deserve nothing but contempt. 

Only other question is why would anyone watch that channel in first place?

Not sure on the viewing figures for GB news, obviously must be lower than the other news channels for them to have some of the vaccine injured on and God forbid let them speak.

Not sure BBC would do the same even though they lost a presenter due to getting vaccinated.

[Tazio]

43 minutes ago, escobri said:

Not sure on the viewing figures for GB news, obviously must be lower than the other news channels for them to have some of the vaccine injured on and God forbid let them speak.

Not sure BBC would do the same even though they lost a presenter due to getting vaccinated.

?

[Malinga the Swinga]

20 minutes ago, Tazio said:

?

Presume he's referring to Derek Draper. Maybe not though. Thought he does after contracting Long Covid

[escobri]

33 minutes ago, Tazio said:

?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

 

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, escobri said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796

 

So 27 deaths from 50m vaccinations? 

[escobri]

11 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Presume he's referring to Derek Draper. Maybe not though. Thought he does after contracting Long Covid

Nope Lisa Shaw, I've added link to relevant news article in reply to Tazio. 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

9 minutes ago, escobri said:

Nope Lisa Shaw, I've added link to relevant news article in reply to Tazio. 

 

Thanks 

[That thing you do]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

So 27 deaths from 50m vaccinations? 

 

 

Theres a one in 55000 complications rate though. Ranging from long term health issues to amputations. And if the "rubber in the veins" part is true, then there could be a number of people walking around with it and any number of heart attacks and strokes attributed to it.

 

I remain skeptical but there are growing voices worldwide talking about it and as Ive said previously, look what politicians are capable of covering up an IT glitch, you think they wont try and bury this as well?

[Ray Gin]

36 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

 

 

Theres a one in 55000 complications rate though. Ranging from long term health issues to amputations. And if the "rubber in the veins" part is true, then there could be a number of people walking around with it and any number of heart attacks and strokes attributed to it.

 

I remain skeptical but there are growing voices worldwide talking about it and as Ive said previously, look what politicians are capable of covering up an IT glitch, you think they wont try and bury this as well?

 

 

There were voices about vaccines turning people into magnets too.

[XB52]

Conspiracy nuts are very well named. 

[Ray Gin]

41 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

 

 

Theres a one in 55000 complications rate though. Ranging from long term health issues to amputations. And if the "rubber in the veins" part is true, then there could be a number of people walking around with it and any number of heart attacks and strokes attributed to it.

 

I remain skeptical but there are growing voices worldwide talking about it and as Ive said previously, look what politicians are capable of covering up an IT glitch, you think they wont try and bury this as well?

 

So 0.0018% of people have complications from the vaccine compared to between 3-12% of people who have caught covid still experiencing symptoms 3 months later.

[Ulysses]

I can't recall if I made this point before but...

 

Spoiler

 

[That thing you do]

 

Once again the guest making the points. This time US Military personnel

[Ulysses]

9 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

So 0.0018% of people have complications from the vaccine compared to between 3-12% of people who have caught covid still experiencing symptoms 3 months later.

 

Some people just don't do numbers all that well.

[Ulysses]

7 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

Once again the guest making the points. This time US Military personnel

 

Before viewing that video, it's no harm for people to be aware that the guest is Major Tom Haviland.  He has featured regularly on Covid-19 conspiracy sites and videos (just like funeral undertaker guy from Milton Keynes has), and he says that he was fired by the US Department of Defense for refusing to be jabbed.

 

You could take a couple of minutes to flick through the article linked below.  It's a fact check by AFP, one of the world's leading news agencies, into claims made by an American embalmer about clots and Covid-19 vaccines.  

 

If you want to skip the article and just get to the point, I've summarised it very briefly in the spoiler below.

 

Spoiler

It's quite unscientific, and without any foundation at all.  

 

But there's loads of other stuff in the article, including a local quote from Edinburgh, so if you're interested you can read it for yourself here:

 

US embalmer baselessly links clots to Covid-19 vaccines | Fact Check (afp.com)

[Bindy Badgy]

18 hours ago, That thing you do said:

 

 

Theres a one in 55000 complications rate though. Ranging from long term health issues to amputations. And if the "rubber in the veins" part is true, then there could be a number of people walking around with it and any number of heart attacks and strokes attributed to it.

 

I remain skeptical but there are growing voices worldwide talking about it and as Ive said previously, look what politicians are capable of covering up an IT glitch, you think they wont try and bury this as well?

 

It isn't a case of politicians trying to bury stuff. It would be a case of scientist burying stuff. Of course, academic misconduct exists. Andrew Wakefield is a vaccine related example. However, he was called out by other scientists.

[That thing you do]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Before viewing that video, it's no harm for people to be aware that the guest is Major Tom Haviland.  He has featured regularly on Covid-19 conspiracy sites and videos (just like funeral undertaker guy from Milton Keynes has), and he says that he was fired by the US Department of Defense for refusing to be jabbed.

 

You could take a couple of minutes to flick through the article linked below.  It's a fact check by AFP, one of the world's leading news agencies, into claims made by an American embalmer about clots and Covid-19 vaccines.  

 

If you want to skip the article and just get to the point, I've summarised it very briefly in the spoiler below.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It's quite unscientific, and without any foundation at all.  

 

But there's loads of other stuff in the article, including a local quote from Edinburgh, so if you're interested you can read it for yourself here:

 

US embalmer baselessly links clots to Covid-19 vaccines | Fact Check (afp.com)

How about the British Medical Journal?

 

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/first-reported-cases-of-clots-in-large-arteries-causing-stroke-following-covid-19-vaccination/

 

There clearly IS a risk. Its a case of how big that risk is.

[Ulysses]

26 minutes ago, That thing you do said:

How about the British Medical Journal?

 

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/first-reported-cases-of-clots-in-large-arteries-causing-stroke-following-covid-19-vaccination/

 

There clearly IS a risk. Its a case of how big that risk is.

 

That's an old story, and it has nothing to do with the unscientific tosh you posted about Funeral Undertaker Guy and his apparent expertise in the carrying out of autopsies, or the "military man" with an axe to grind.

 

Everyone knows that there were some reported issues with the AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) shot back in 2001.  It's also well-known that these affected a minuscule percentage of people who got jabs, and that many health authorities modified their vaccine delivery programs in response to the risks, or stopped using Vaxzevria altogether.  It's also well-known (or at least quite easy to find out) that Vaxzevria doesn't use the same technology as the Pfizer-BioNTech And Moderna vaccines.

 

Also, the risk profiles of these medicines are well-known, regularly reviewed and discussed by experts (and by that I mean experts in medicine, not experts in polishing coffin handles).  They're also available for anyone to see, even (Heaven help us) people who can't really understand the data anyway.  So the notion that something is being hidden is just more of the same unscientific, uneducated, unaware, paranoid mumbo jumbo conspiracy waffle we've come to expect from the tinfoil hat sector.

 

Funeral Guy, Embalmer Guy and people like them haven't discovered something all the top medics and researchers out there have missed.  Sorry to disappoint anyone, but that's how it is.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Bindy Badgy said:

 

It isn't a case of politicians trying to bury stuff. It would be a case of scientist burying stuff. Of course, academic misconduct exists. Andrew Wakefield is a vaccine related example. However, he was called out by other scientists.

 

Andrew Wakefield is a charlatan.

 

But don't forget he was also a poster boy for the anti-vax conspiracy theorists.  His academic misconduct was specifically designed to discredit the MMR vaccine, and there is a real possibility that children have died or being disabled because people were fooled by his disgraced and wholly immoral behaviour.

 

It's no surprise that he's still an active anti-vaxxer, and still spreading lies and fear.