Press conference 4/11 ( updated )

[The Internet]

6 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Add Centre Halfs to that as well. The current system just produces loads of similar players IMO. Once the 4, 5, 7 and 9 a sides have been completed the boys are in secondary school and are already shaped as players. There is a real lack of out and out centre halfs or strikers.

 

There are exceptions to this especially in England but from what I've seen this is an issue all over the UK, possibly Europe. Barcelona has made UK coaches think you can have a team of technically brilliant midget clones and that's all they seem to focus on. Fair enough you want players to be comfortable on the ball and that's the good thing about modern academies but loads of the kids seem to have any excitement/unpredictability coached out of them before they hit a first team. Pass pass pass pass is all they know. We've gone too far the other way from what was happening before (big strong laddies etc). Being able to make 5/10 yard passes in your sleep is all well and good but they need to develop physically and mentally too. 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

1 minute ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

There are exceptions to this especially in England but from what I've seen this is an issue all over the UK, possibly Europe. Barcelona has made UK coaches think you can have a team of technically brilliant midget clones and that's all they seem to focus on. Fair enough you want players to be comfortable on the ball and that's the good thing about modern academies but loads of the kids seem to have any excitement/unpredictability coached out of them before they hit a first team. Pass pass pass pass is all they know. We've gone too far the other way from what was happening before (big strong laddies etc). Being able to make 5/10 yard passes in your sleep is all well and good but they need to develop physically and mentally too. 

Spot on mate, especially the highlighted but. I attend a lot of youth games and over-coached is a term that could be used a lot. 

[Morgan]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Young mans game though. Next you will be saying he should be on the bench on Saturday 🤪

That’s just ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He should start.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

13 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

 

So Levein has done amazingly to build up the academy but when it’s time for players first team chance the same Levein gives them a couple of games before bombing them out for complete duds on good money.  That suggests to me he has his own interests over any academy prospect.  How could the same Craig Levein convince a parent to get his boy to sign for Hearts when it’s been shown he didn’t give much of a chance at all to past academy graduates over his own vested interests when he was manager?  Will he tell parents the first team coach will do the complete opposite of him personally and that’s why to sign with the club now? 

Can't disagree with any of that ! 

[Debut 4]

43 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

One thing about the academy is every single scout should be shown the door for the fact we have nobody better to stick up front than Steven MacLean. 
What is it with this country that we have nobody to score goals? What are we doing to our young boys that ensures we literally produce zero strikers anymore?

 

Totally agree and with Pinillas post too. 

 

Said for the long enough certain arts in football are diminishing because of football snobbery and obsession with possession. When was the last time you saw a Hearts midfielder play a simple one-two with a striker?  Football is pish now apart from some of the top teams who obviously get the best players. 

 

The latest fad is every team thinking can play out from their box. Just watch over the season how many goals get lost because of it. 

 

Common sense and doing the right thing in certain areas of the park is getting rarer too. 

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

4 hours ago, spacerjoe said:

 

Budge has over 5 years experience as a football CEO for a top tier team. How much experience are you looking for?

That is plenty but quite honestly, her handling of all this calls her competence into question. 

[Beni]

4 hours ago, XB52 said:

He has not been a failure in the role he was originally employed for, in fact he has been a success. 

 

The DoF role is wider than just the first team, so I can see the argument that he was successful in some aspects of that job. But the most important aspect is the first team, and whether it was Neilson, Cathro or Levein in charge the buck stopped with Craig. He's rightly  carried the can for poor results.

[wavydavy]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

One thing about the academy is every single scout should be shown the door for the fact we have nobody better to stick up front than Steven MacLean. 
What is it with this country that we have nobody to score goals? What are we doing to our young boys that ensures we literally produce zero strikers anymore?

 

 

I agree to an extent but then are these guys not just scouting the type of players they are asked to find?

 

For all we know they could have been recommending lots of much better players than we have signed but CL rejected them.

[FruitJuice]

2 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

The problem with the kids taking there chance is the last couple of years when they've came in we've mostly been playing rubbish with no confidence which not time to throw kids in and also the fact that even if they came in and played well they'd be out again anyway because our squads been massive with the amount of duds we've been signing since the day cathro walked through the door

Not to labour a point,  but if they were duds, would it not make it easier for youngsters, who are good enough for the first team, to stay in it?  I think we should've had a better return on the youngsters after 5 years.  Especially if we had signed duds. 

[We_are_the_Hearts]

4 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Not to labour a point,  but if they were duds, would it not make it easier for youngsters, who are good enough for the first team, to stay in it?  I think we should've had a better return on the youngsters after 5 years.  Especially if we had signed duds. 

We haven't produced a striker since Robbo and there is no sign of one any time soon. For a club like Hearts that is a disgrace.

[The Treasurer]

6 minutes ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

We haven't produced a striker since Robbo and there is no sign of one any time soon. For a club like Hearts that is a disgrace.

The Scottish game as a whole hasn't produced much in the way of strikers in that time.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

9 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Not to labour a point,  but if they were duds, would it not make it easier for youngsters, who are good enough for the first team, to stay in it?  I think we should've had a better return on the youngsters after 5 years.  Especially if we had signed duds. 

I agree with your point that the manager should've put kids in more often rather than some of the duds we've watched 

[FruitJuice]

Just now, We_are_the_Hearts said:

We haven't produced a striker since Robbo and there is no sign of one any time soon. For a club like Hearts that is a disgrace.

That is pretty shocking.  Do we produce midfielders?  We have done so with defenders.  McLaren, Ritchie naysmith etc.  Cant think of any strikers or midfielders.  It looks like Keena isnt going to produce the goods or get a chance to.  I'm not sure our academy is as good as they say it is.  Five years should've produced a few more than we have.  The ones at 16 and 17 when budge took over will be in their early 20's now. After 5 years of good coaching they should've been in the first team by now.  Especially if we have signed duds.  It's not as if its good players that are keeping them out.  All this jam tomorrow doesn't count until we see the evidence.  Football wise we are underperforming in more areas than the first team.  If they aren't ready yet, will it be next season?  

[The Internet]

Don't disagree that our academy is underperforming but it's a bit simple to say 'the 16 year olds that were here when Budge took over should be in the first team now'. It takes more than good coaching to make a player and having quality youth coaching is no guarantee that youth players are going to make it into the first team. If it was that easy every team in the world would be full of players who have come through that club's academy. 

[FruitJuice]

4 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

I agree with your point that the manager should've put kids in more often rather than some of the duds we've watched 

If the kids are good enough and the signings are duds, what keeping them out the team, the pride of the person who signed them? Be it cathro or someone else.  I dont think we can shout a out the success of the academy until we see some regulars who are performeing well in the first team.  Until then they are getting credit due to speculation 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

8 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

If the kids are good enough and the signings are duds, what keeping them out the team, the pride of the person who signed them? Be it cathro or someone else.  I dont think we can shout a out the success of the academy until we see some regulars who are performeing well in the first team.  Until then they are getting credit due to speculation 

Do you not agree we've signed lots of duds since cathro walked through the door until the present day?

[We_are_the_Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Do you not agree we've signed lots of duds since cathro walked through the door until the present day?

Since we won the Championship really.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Since we won the Championship really.

Only thing I'd say to that is when robbie left we just beaten rangers and were 3rd in the league 

[FruitJuice]

13 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Do you not agree we've signed lots of duds since cathro walked through the door until the present day?

Completely! That's why I don't understand  why our youngsters aren't getting in the team and staying there if they are good enough.  It's not if its lots of good players keeping them out.  So they are either not good enough or we aren't making them good enough.  It may happen in the next couple of seasons but there isnt much evidence to show that it will happen.  Until then the academy shouldn't be seen as a success. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by FruitJuice

[XB52]

1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

 

The DoF role is wider than just the first team, so I can see the argument that he was successful in some aspects of that job. But the most important aspect is the first team, and whether it was Neilson, Cathro or Levein in charge the buck stopped with Craig. He's rightly  carried the can for poor results.

Yes he has carried the can, rightly.

[martoon]

7 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

If the kids are good enough and the signings are duds, what keeping them out the team, the pride of the person who signed them? Be it cathro or someone else.  I dont think we can shout a out the success of the academy until we see some regulars who are performeing well in the first team.  Until then they are getting credit due to speculation 

 

 

...as long as we ignore "performeing". 

 

[FruitJuice]

Just now, martoon said:

 

 

...as long as we ignore "performeing". 

 

You should see what I've just had to edit in my next post.... my hands are cold after being outside...

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

You should see what I've just had to edit in my next post.... my hands are cold after being outside...

 

 

[FruitJuice]

2 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

 

I was going to type  my hands are cold while walking the dog but I didn't trust predictive text with the word walking... I didn't trust it not to change the k to an n...  imagine saying my hands were cold because of that. 

[The Internet]

2 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Totally agree and with Pinillas post too. 

 

Said for the long enough certain arts in football are diminishing because of football snobbery and obsession with possession. When was the last time you saw a Hearts midfielder play a simple one-two with a striker?  Football is pish now apart from some of the top teams who obviously get the best players. 

 

The latest fad is every team thinking can play out from their box. Just watch over the season how many goals get lost because of it. 

 

Common sense and doing the right thing in certain areas of the park is getting rarer too. 

 

 

 

Playing out from the back drives me absolutely insane  even man city get caught out doing it from time to time yet you've still got cloggers in lower leagues trying it like they're gerard pique. When it works it can be a good tactic to draw the opposition out but teams are doing it when they're being closed down by 3 nippy attackers and its just a recipe for disaster. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

19 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Completely! That's why I don't understand  why our youngsters aren't getting in the team and staying there if they are good enough.  It's not if its lots of good players keeping them out.  So they are either not good enough or we aren't making them good enough.  It may happen in the next couple of seasons but there isnt much evidence to show that it will happen.  Until then the academy shouldn't be seen as a success. 

Personally I put it down to Craig levein signing far too many players and blocking the pathway for youngsters 

[Cut The Crap]

 

33 minutes ago, FruitJuice said:

Completely! That's why I don't understand  why our youngsters aren't getting in the team and staying there if they are good enough.  It's not if its lots of good players keeping them out.  So they are either not good enough or we aren't making them good enough.  It may happen in the next couple of seasons but there isnt much evidence to show that it will happen.  Until then the academy shouldn't be seen as a success. 

 

Situations like Mitchell's or Meshino's do baffle me a little.

 

Without being overly harsh on those guys, have they really offered enough at Hearts to justify us developing other clubs' players rather than our own?

 

Would we be significantly weaker if we had played Anthony McDonald instead of Meshino over the past two months?

[Beast Boy]

I think Meshino looks a great wee player, and he will show it more once he has better players around him regularly.

[martoon]

1 hour ago, FruitJuice said:

I was going to type  my hands are cold while walking the dog but I didn't trust predictive text with the word walking... I didn't trust it not to change the k to an n...  imagine saying my hands were cold because of that. 

 

Would have gone down in JKB history. A never to be forgotten post. A bit like the lad who, a few years back, posted about having a shite in a field. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, martoon said:

 

Would have gone down in JKB history. A never to be forgotten post. A bit like the lad who, a few years back, posted about having a shite in a field. 

@chester copperpot 🤔

[martoon]

Just now, Icon of Symmetry said:

@chester copperpot 🤔

 

...and there was me trying to be discreet by naming no names. 

[Clerry Jambo]

34 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

I think Meshino looks a great wee player, and he will show it more once he has better players around him regularly.

Totally agree he’s just getting dragged down like others with the pish around him and negative style of play

Edited November 6, 2019 by Clerry Jambo

[martoon]

34 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

I think Meshino looks a great wee player, and he will show it more once he has better players around him regularly.

 

All things considered, age, new country, weird Scottish fitba, poor team on a terrible run, I think he's looked very promising. 

 

He's sure to get better, too, in a functioning team. 

[Adam_the_legend]

3 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

All things considered, age, new country, weird Scottish fitba, poor team on a terrible run, I think he's looked very promising. 

 

He's sure to get better, too, in a functioning team. 

I’d give every player a second chance. Let the new manager make the call. Players can turn from a huddy to a superstar with new management.

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, Adam_the_legend said:

I’d give every player a second chance. Let the new manager make the call. Players can turn from a huddy to a superstar with new management.

 

Agreed. Clean slate for everyone. 

[The Internet]

Just now, Adam_the_legend said:

I’d give every player a second chance. Let the new manager make the call. Players can turn from a huddy to a superstar with new management.

 

Agreed. Think loads of our players will look better with a proper experienced manager. Really need to make the right appointment.

[Debut 4]

2 hours ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

Playing out from the back drives me absolutely insane  even man city get caught out doing it from time to time yet you've still got cloggers in lower leagues trying it like they're gerard pique. When it works it can be a good tactic to draw the opposition out but teams are doing it when they're being closed down by 3 nippy attackers and its just a recipe for disaster. 

I know. Lol.  Pish in the lower leagues think they are well oiled. 

 

The fact remains you still need to be good enough to get the ball forward and get behind teams. So why invite the opposition another 20 yards into your half?  Mental stuff now. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited November 6, 2019 by Debut 4

[Morgan]

On 15/12/2012 at 23:44, chester copperpot said:

I had to shite in a field tonight in the town of Croy, after dropping my kids off to their mum.

 

I arrived 30 mins before the return train was due, and as the kids mum picked them up, I had to ask if she'd drive me home to ours (I still pay the ******* mortgage) so I could rid the world of this turtles heid.

 

She refused, so I spent the next 20 mins walking around like a dug with an arched back trying to find a place to find my plop. I eventually had to go at the end of a fence which backed on to a house, and wipe my arse with a pair of socks I found in my rucksack.

 

I'm not very proud, and never done this before, so thought I'd brighten up the night of the KB massive by sharing. It doesn't matter how bad you feel, there's always someone with a shite to get rid of.

 

32 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Would have gone down in JKB history. A never to be forgotten post. A bit like the lad who, a few years back, posted about having a shite in a field. 

 

26 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

...and there was me trying to be discreet by naming no names. 

 

Och!  Don't be shy.     

[Bridge of Djoum]

8 hours ago, XB52 said:

He had to start our whole football structure from nothing as it had been totally neglected. Even his biggest critics, apart from the experts on here, agree he deserves great credit for building up the whole football department. of course he failed ultimately as manager 

Facts from start to finish. Rare these days. 

[FruitJuice]

37 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Would have gone down in JKB history. A never to be forgotten post. A bit like the lad who, a few years back, posted about having a shite in a field. 

😆

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Meshi will be fine when the liquid football inevitably arrives 

 

[clark963]

2 hours ago, Cut The Crap said:

 

 

Situations like Mitchell's or Meshino's do baffle me a little.

 

Without being overly harsh on those guys, have they really offered enough at Hearts to justify us developing other clubs' players rather than our own?

 

Would we be significantly weaker if we had played Anthony McDonald instead of Meshino over the past two months?

Dont get why Macdonald got farmed out.l Meshino was exciting but has been a bit meh....clearly got ability but very light weight.

Edited November 6, 2019 by clark963

[clark963]

4 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Meshi will be fine when the liquid football inevitably arrives 

 

Hope your right can see he's got the ability and a great work ethic. He finds space and makes clever runs but our current midfield bar Glen receive the ball with there back to goal and recycle it. None are taking it on the turn and playing forward, confidence is shot and they're all scared to make mistakes. Clare and Bozzy were culpable of it nearly everytime they got the ball on Sunday. 

[Adam_the_legend]

1 minute ago, The Future's Maroon said:

If that has been ongoing recently it is bang out of order, people have usernames for a reason on forums like this.

 

It has happened to me before with someone posting my name in a scrambled up post to let me know they know who I am...sad as **** some people.

Back on topic, everyone should get a clean slate I agree wholeheartedly but with some of the posters on here it simply won’t happen, unfortunately....e.g will Clare  get a clean slate?

IMO Clare is a terrible player BUT he should have the opportunity to prove himself to a new manager. If he turns it round then great, if not, we tried. 

[The Future's Maroon]

Just now, Adam_the_legend said:

IMO Clare is a terrible player BUT he should have the opportunity to prove himself to a new manager. If he turns it round then great, if not, we tried. 

That is fair, you admit you don’t rate him but are willing to give him a chance to prove it under a new manager.

 

Your last sentence could well be spot on.

[GinRummy]

Just now, Icon of Symmetry said:

I won’t name names, but that is the absolute truth.

Yeah read a bit of it. Bloody awful stuff. Wtf goes on in folks heids. 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, GinRummy said:

Yeah read a bit of it. Bloody awful stuff. Wtf goes on in folks heids. 

Cheers mate. Glad someone other than myself has seen it. It must be a wee bit too subtle for others. Hey, live and let live though, eh?

 

[jack D and coke]

3 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

I agree to an extent but then are these guys not just scouting the type of players they are asked to find?

 

For all we know they could have been recommending lots of much better players than we have signed but CL rejected them.

True. I mean what was it he said about MacLean? I like the fact he can’t run or something  

[GinRummy]

Just now, Icon of Symmetry said:

Cheers mate. Glad someone other than myself has seen it. It must be a wee bit too subtle for others. Hey, live and let live though, eh?

 

Rise above it. Empty heads make the most noise 

Edited November 6, 2019 by GinRummy

[Morgan]

1 minute ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

I won’t name names, but that is the absolute truth.

And, not just on here, Mothy.

 

If you get my drift?

 

As @Clerry Jambo said, well out of order. Absolutely no need, and taking things too far.