General Election 2019

[AW1]

2 hours ago, hughesie27 said:

Didn't he refuse to address his own racist remarks other than saying he hoped they never offended anyone (they did)? 

Correct 

 

Absolute face palm moment for Johnson that was 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Perfect. The whole "SNP CULT" thing is just so pathetic. I'm 3000 miles away but I'm still allowed to vote in Scotland. I'll vote for independence. After? I'll vote for the party that suits my views. The tedious "SNP DICTATORSHIP" is just the worst patter.

This!

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

 

Thank you Sir, it was doing our heads in trying to work out how we knew her!

Every QT in Scotland there's Tory Msps or councillors masquerading as the general public. So?

[A Boy Named Crow]

8 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

What troops was she "rallying" in Sheffield?  She shouldn't even be there as her party is not a national (UK) one. 

This highlights exactly why there should be no leaders’ debates at all. Each seat is contested individually, any candidate has the opportunity to make their case locally. This means in some cases there will be local issues that are highly relevant to that particular vote. These debates create the impression you can only vote for the main parties, or in the worst case, for one of two parties.

 

 The SNP are not standing in England, but they are a major party in each of the Scottish seats. If the debate is going to happen and it’s going to be shown in Scotland, they absolutely should be involved...but so should every other party / candidate standing in any seat where the debate is being shown.

Not to do so undermines the basis of FPTP. This is not America, we don’t share their presidential system, so copying their debate structure is wrong. I can’t believe these debates got the green light in the first place!
 

 

[Justin Z]

10 hours ago, dicksojo said:

I just don’t think a majority of 50% + 1 is good enough to pass legislation as wide ranging and divisive such as Brexit or Independence.

 

Agree with you as far as personal opinion on how constitutional change ought to work. But it would be political suicide and the cause of civil unrest if Brexit were allowed to go ahead with 52% but then Scottish independence was required to get 66.7% (or 60% or whatever) shortly thereafter. Simply not tenable.

[Justin Z]

10 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Funny given that she is a minority government being propped up by the Greens. I think there will be further surprises in the GE. Not all cut and dried. 

 

I thought you had a degree in politics and therefore knew everything about it especially compared to such plebs.

So you know full well how truly silly it is to refer to the minority government given the voting system in place for Scottish Parliament elections that was intended to guarantee there'd never be a majority . . . and yet the SNP managed one anyway in 2015.

 

10 hours ago, Cade said:

"SNP are a minoteetee guvurnmunt"

 

Showing a total lack of understanding of how the d'Hondt voting system works.

 

10 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

No I am not. Facts are facts. 

 

And then doubled down on it. Mental.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Justin Z

[Boab]

Don’t get involved in political debate unless you really know what you’re talking about.

That’s Boab’s top tip for today !

( Yes, Swinson, you as well ! )

[Victorian]

BBC Breakfast's description of the programme was an insulting work of fiction.    Selective neutrality and employment of balance.    Maybe they'll insist that their top political journalists and presenters adopt an equally neutral position.     

[Brighton Jambo]

10 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

Because they're standing in the national parliament and they're bigger than Swinson's lot.

But so what? It's done, get over it, it doesn't distract from bumblefuk boris.

 

The Tories are terrified, JRM under lock and key, Gove nowhere to be seen - why are these prominent government figures being hidden away?

I'm starting to think they might just lose this one. Hope, hope.

I’m starting to hope so too.  That means second Brexit vote, we vote to remain and independence is off the table and we can all go back to normal and get on with life.  

[dobmisterdobster]

The Tories should win a majority of about 20-30.

[Unknown user]

22 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I’m starting to hope so too.  That means second Brexit vote, we vote to remain and independence is off the table and we can all go back to normal and get on with life.  

 

Yes, only england should get the government it votes for eh?

[AlphonseCapone]

11 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's got nothing to do with the number of MPs (of course she's not one of them) the SNP have at Westminster. The bottom line is only people in Scotland can vote for them in a General Election so why are they involved in a national debate? I'm sure that BBC Glasgow will have one that at least will be relevant for them to attend. 

 

Because they may well hold the balance of power and people in the rest of the UK deserve to hear what that might mean for them.

 

Sturgeon and Corbyn performed well. Johnson was his usual talk shite and apologise for nothing self. But the best part of the night by far was seeing Jo Swinson absolutely taken to task. She's was smashed to pieces by audience and she had no credible comeback. She's not good enough to be a credible leader.

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

Yes, only england should get the government it votes for eh?

So, if labour win a minority government and are supported by the SNP then Scotland has got a government it voted for.

 

are you seriously saying that in the event of a second Brexit vote that was remain independence should still be campaigned for.  That would mean the SNP would be campaigning to take Scotland out of the EU.  Hahahahahahaha you couldn’t make this shit up after everything they have spent the last two years saying.  

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Because they may well hold the balance of power and people in the rest of the UK deserve to hear what that might mean for them.

 

Sturgeon and Corbyn performed well. Johnson was his usual talk shite and apologise for nothing self. But the best part of the night by far was seeing Jo Swinson absolutely taken to task. She's was smashed to pieces by audience and she had no credible comeback. She's not good enough to be a credible leader.

 

But she can wail about the other main party leaders not being fit to be PM,    complain about sexism and promote the fact she's a woman.     

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Because they may well hold the balance of power and people in the rest of the UK deserve to hear what that might mean for them.

 

Sturgeon and Corbyn performed well. Johnson was his usual talk shite and apologise for nothing self. But the best part of the night by far was seeing Jo Swinson absolutely taken to task. She's was smashed to pieces by audience and she had no credible comeback. She's not good enough to be a credible leader.

 

Only 8% of the population of the UK can vote for her party. If there must be an SNP representative then perhaps it should be their leader in the HoC. 

[Victorian]

Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

So, if labour win a minority government and are supported by the SNP then Scotland has got a government it voted for.

 

are you seriously saying that in the event of a second Brexit vote that was remain independence should still be campaigned for.  That would mean the SNP would be campaigning to take Scotland out of the EU.  Hahahahahahaha you couldn’t make this shit up after everything they have spent the last two years saying.  

 

In that scenario,   the SNP's theory is that the matter of Brexit would merely be postponed.    That it would come back.     They say it's better for Scotland to have it's own EU membership.

 

Feel free to agree or disagree with them but that is the SNP stance.

[AlphonseCapone]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Only 8% of the population of the UK can vote for her party. If there must be an SNP representative then perhaps it should be their leader in the HoC. 

 

I don't actually disagree on the second point. They made a strategic move putting Sturgeon in.

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

I think your being a tad optimistic. 
 

If labour did get in, which is a massive IF, and did hold a second referendum on Brexit. Which remain won, I doubt the result would be different actually, you can be damn sure there would be a move for a third referendum. We would the be in neverendum territory which would benefit no one. 
 

Whilst Scottish independence isn’t going anywhere, irrespective of brexit, until it happens or is soundly defeated. I suspect independence is the most likely outcome,  

 

The genie is out the bottle on both imo and I suspect both will happen in the short term (less than 5 years)

 

Brexit and Indepedence really do seem the most likely outcome. I don’t think that would be for the overall betterment of most but hey ho that the way it looks like we’re going, 
 

 

I don’t agree on Scottish independence being likely.

 

toxic Tories in power with an unelected BJ.  No deal brexit been looming for months and still hardly any polls show a majority for independence.  

 

Once an independence campaign gets underway and the scrutiny starts on the usual things such as currency, border with England, impact in Scottish economy the polls only go one way.  

 

If they couldnt get a majority in polls after last 12 month so of madness I honestly don’t believe they ever will.  

[Victorian]

The SNP leader still has leadership responsibility and oversight of the Westminster group.    She has competence in a general election.    It was entirely proper for the party leader to take part and not the Westminster group leader.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I don't actually disagree on the second point. They made a strategic move putting Sturgeon in.

 

Aye because Blackford is a total mare. She got an incredibly easy time of it mostly due to the audience having no interest in regional politics of Scotland. All she was allowed to do was spout her Indy and Brexit guff. She did give one hopeless answer about the ability of an independent Scotland to meet the EU’s entry requirements, but no one seemed to notice.

[Unknown user]

9 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

So, if labour win a minority government and are supported by the SNP then Scotland has got a government it voted for.

 

are you seriously saying that in the event of a second Brexit vote that was remain independence should still be campaigned for.  That would mean the SNP would be campaigning to take Scotland out of the EU.  Hahahahahahaha you couldn’t make this shit up after everything they have spent the last two years saying.  

 

You're not that dense, you know fine that the independence movement is about the right to self determination above everything else.

 

If brexit gets cancelled then absolutely those who want freedom should still argue for it. Obviously. 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

11 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Aye because Blackford is a total mare. She got an incredibly easy time of it mostly due to the audience having no interest in regional politics of Scotland. All she was allowed to do was spout her Indy and Brexit guff. She did give one hopeless answer about the ability of an independent Scotland to meet the EU’s entry requirements, but no one seemed to notice.

 

She gave good responses to most questions and was the most credible person to take the lectern. I think your obvious bias towards her means you won't be able to see that.

[Brighton Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

You're not that dense, you know fine that the independence movement is about the right to self determination above everything else.

 

If brexit gets cancelled then absolutely those who want freedom should still argue for it. Obviously. 

 

I do but its going to be entertaining watching the 180 degree pivot the SNP are going to have to do f we voted remain in Brexit 2.  The opposition parties will have a field day with the hypocrisy of their position.  

 

 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

I do but its going to be entertaining watching the 180 degree pivot the SNP are going to have to do f we voted remain in Brexit 2.  The opposition parties will have a field day with the hypocrisy of their position.  

 

The snp want independence within the EU. That's never changed.

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

She gave good responses to most questions and was the most credible person to take the lectern. I think your obvious bias towards her means you won't be able to see that.

 

That just confirms what I said that she was given the easiest ride, question wise, of any of the candidates (not that she is technically a candidate). 

[Brighton Jambo]

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

The snp want independence within the EU. That's never changed.

SNP:  “we are being dragged out of EU against our will, being in EU is where Scotland belongs”

 

now:

 

SNP:  “vote for independence and Scotland will leave the EU to hopefully return on an unspecified date in the future”

 

everyone else “hahahahahahahahahah stop, don’t, it’s too much hahahahahahahaha

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

The SNP look on course to take the vast majority of seats in Scotland and possibly even a full house. They will go for another referendum and denying another referendum will play into their hands on support. 
 

A hard brexit has never really been on the table to date. The House of Commons ensured that by making clear the only thing they could agree on was saying piss off to to a no deal. The tories may well have been championing it, for a few months under bojo, but it was never on the table in reality. May certainly wouldn’t have allowed it. 
 

The toxic tories thing is a bit of a misnomer in Scotland. They were the second largest party in Scotland by quite some distance in GE and Scottish elections. They are undoubtably marmite but not nearly as unpopular as made out in Scotland. Viewing vitriol as indicator of support is a mistake. 
 

Polling is now showing a slight favour for independence, it’s a small movement but that’s all they need to get over the line as we operate referendum on the 50% +1 basis. Polling heavily suggest Scots value the EU way more than the union. You are not looking to persuade ardent unionist or indepedence supporters in the event of second referendum but floating voters. They by nature are prepared to switch. 
 

With a referendum that was so tight last time, would seem a bit complacent to view it as unlikely. Especially you consider the movement from no to yes during the actual referendum campaign. 
 

Concerns like hard border and currency weirdly seem to become a lot less of issue as a result of the brexit fiasco. 

Fair enough you don’t think it’s happening but I think you are misjudging things,  particulary  the mood in Scotland. A lot of people I believe may not be independence supporters, per se, but will now vote for it pm especially in the event of brexit. 
 

People in the main vote for what they believe is best for them, not out of ideology.
 

I agree with your last sentence and when the campaign gets going the reality of leaving a trading partner that is far far more important to Scotland than the EU will sink and people will realise that remains close to that union is better for them.  

 

Polling is not showing a slight favour to independence that simply not true.  One or two polls may have but there is no way they are the norm.  

 

Those things you say have become a lot less of an issue seem so because no one really is talking about them.  Once they are front and centre they will be an issue once again.  

 

Any lets agree to disagree

[RobboM]

23 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

The snp want independence within the EU. That's never changed.

But .... and it's a huge but the difference would be trying to resolve the border between Scotland and UK in the same way that the border in N Ireland proved intractible in current negotiations. The problem would be that the solution cooked up for Ireland would not be possible in this situation as England would have no incentive to throw itself under the bus to satisfy EU frictionless trade requiremnts. I honestly think it is a hugely different issue post Brexit.

[dobmisterdobster]

Corbyn: "I will not give the SNP a referendum in the first two years of my premiership."

 

Nicola: "Nevermind what he just said. Jeremy will give me whatever I want in exchange for my support."

 

[RobboM]

12 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

The SNP look on course to take the vast majority of seats in Scotland and possibly even a full house. They will go for another referendum and denying another referendum will play into their hands on support. 
 

A hard brexit has never really been on the table to date. The House of Commons ensured that by making clear the only thing they could agree on was saying piss off to to a no deal. The tories may well have been championing it, for a few months under bojo, but it was never on the table in reality. May certainly wouldn’t have allowed it. 

 

The current withdrawal agreement sets us up to leave EU without a deal this time next year and there is nothing the House of COmmons could do to prevent that once the Deal is passed

 

 

Quote

Concerns like hard border and currency weirdly seem to become a lot less of issue as a result of the brexit fiasco. 

Honestly I go completely the other way. I think these would be huge, and insurmountable, obstacles

[Unknown user]

11 minutes ago, RobboM said:

But .... and it's a huge but the difference would be trying to resolve the border between Scotland and UK in the same way that the border in N Ireland proved intractible in current negotiations. The problem would be that the solution cooked up for Ireland would not be possible in this situation as England would have no incentive to throw itself under the bus to satisfy EU frictionless trade requiremnts. I honestly think it is a hugely different issue post Brexit.

 

That's another conversation, I'm purely talking about BJ's assertion that the SNP wanting independence is hypocritical if britain doesn't leave the EU. The SNP exist for scottish independence above everything else, obviously. He's talking out his hoop.

[doctor jambo]

17 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The rough calculation of the difference in tax on a £85000 salary between 41% tax and 45% tax would be less than £1700 per year or 32 quid per week

Aye, everyone would love a £1700 per year paycut after a 8 year pay freeze.

[King prawn]

13 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Aye, everyone would love a £1700 per year paycut after a 8 year pay freeze.

Everyone earning that much is a small number compared to those who aren’t 

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Aye, everyone would love a £1700 per year paycut after a 8 year pay freeze.

 

Some can afford a 2% hit better than others, those in the top 5% earners in the country for example.

[Cade]

35 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Aye, everyone would love a £1700 per year paycut after a 8 year pay freeze.

We all look forward to the massed ranks of doctors blockading the motorways in their BMWs in the coming days

[gjcc]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Some can afford a 2% hit better than others, those in the top 5% earners in the country for example.

Nah. There’s absolutely nothing they could trim from their budgets. It’ll force them to have to use foodbanks just like those hardest hit by austerity. 

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Corbyn: "I will not give the SNP a referendum in the first two years of my premiership."

 

Nicola: "Nevermind what he just said. Jeremy will give me whatever I want in exchange for my support."

 

Shes not wrong

[XB52]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I don’t agree on Scottish independence being likely.

 

toxic Tories in power with an unelected BJ.  No deal brexit been looming for months and still hardly any polls show a majority for independence.  

 

Once an independence campaign gets underway and the scrutiny starts on the usual things such as currency, border with England, impact in Scottish economy the polls only go one way.  

 

If they couldnt get a majority in polls after last 12 month so of madness I honestly don’t believe they ever will.  

Funny how the polls all went towards independence the last time the campaign for underway. I am sure the same will happen next time. Only difference is we are starting from a much higher standing in the polls

[coconut doug]

3 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Aye because Blackford is a total mare. She got an incredibly easy time of it mostly due to the audience having no interest in regional politics of Scotland. All she was allowed to do was spout her Indy and Brexit guff. She did give one hopeless answer about the ability of an independent Scotland to meet the EU’s entry requirements, but no one seemed to notice.

 

What are the EU entry requirements that Nicola gave a hopeless answer to?

[XB52]

2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

SNP:  “we are being dragged out of EU against our will, being in EU is where Scotland belongs”

 

now:

 

SNP:  “vote for independence and Scotland will leave the EU to hopefully return on an unspecified date in the future”

 

everyone else “hahahahahahahahahah stop, don’t, it’s too much hahahahahahahaha

Pathetic post, trying hard to be funny but just coming across as bitter. 

[AlphonseCapone]

28 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Well she is probably right. What someone says in a campaign and what they do are often different things. Power corrupts and all that 😝
 

I also wonder how long it would it take to organise and get to a vote for Indy 2.

 

2 years and a day?

 

Lord BJ, sorry to interject but are you pro indepedence? Have you always been if so?

 

I thought you were a No voter in 2014 so just curious if you've changed your mind, or maybe I'm just not remembering correctly.

[Brighton Jambo]

8 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Pathetic post, trying hard to be funny but just coming across as bitter. 

I am bitter.  I am absolutely fed up of Scottish independence and the uncertainty that it and Brexit are/will bring.

 

 

[Trapper John McIntyre]

[gjcc]

10 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

What are the EU entry requirements that Nicola gave a hopeless answer to?

Probably meaning the level of Scotland’s deficit being too high under Westminster’s mismanagement to allow entry to the EU. Which, I think, she answered fine. 
 

Imagine your wife taking all your salary giving you half back and spending some on a shopping spree then moaning that you haven’t left enough for the bills.  

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, Brian Dundas said:

Is it not only £200 a year more on tax?

 

Yep, you need to be earning more than £110,000 to have to pay £1700 more in Tax.

 

https://calculate.forlabour.com

 

Not my understanding of it, but I'm no expert. Top rate in Scotland is 41% on earnings over £43,500 if that moved to 45% then surely that would mean more than £200 per annum as you be paying 4% more on £41,500?

As I say I may be wrong. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

SNP:  “we are being dragged out of EU against our will, being in EU is where Scotland belongs”

 

now:

 

SNP:  “vote for independence and Scotland will leave the EU to hopefully return on an unspecified date in the future”

 

everyone else “hahahahahahahahahah stop, don’t, it’s too much hahahahahahahaha

It's perfectly clear if we could get dragged out once it could happen again. So we're better off getting independence, now.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Aye, everyone would love a £1700 per year paycut after a 8 year pay freeze.

On a salary of £85,000? However would one make ends meet? Oh the humanity!

 

Being kind I'd say that's aspirational for most normal people.

[gjcc]

19 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

On a salary of £85,000? However would one make ends meet? Oh the humanity!

 

Being kind I'd say that's aspirational for most normal people.

They’ll have to hold off re-carpeting the buy-to-let for another year I suppose.

[coconut doug]

15 minutes ago, gjcc said:

Probably meaning the level of Scotland’s deficit being too high under Westminster’s mismanagement to allow entry to the EU. Which, I think, she answered fine. 
 

Imagine your wife taking all your salary giving you half back and spending some on a shopping spree then moaning that you haven’t left enough for the bills.  

 

I don't think there is any budgetary requirement for EU entry and neither did Nicola but maybe this guy knows better.  

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

We all look forward to the massed ranks of doctors blockading the motorways in their BMWs in the coming days

The jealousy reeks out of some people.

Dont better yourself guys, just take more of others instead. I believe everyone should pay something IN , rather than just taking out. Otherwise how are we all going to be equal?