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Levein’s time is up...


Heartsofgold

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9 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

The Manchester United players were massively underperforming creating a huge opportunity for improvement. The Hearts players based on league position and Cup runs are not massively underperforming so the potential for improvement would be limited but not impossible. A new coach could also have the reverse effect of making things worse. Neilson to Cathro being a prime example.

 

 

The background staff and entire ethos at the club has been changed under Solskjaer. He has also brought Pogba back into the team. We don't have any World Cup winners currently not getting a game. Everyone yesterday was agreed the lineup was a lot more positive and attacking but it didn't translate, apparently, into the performance on display.

 

What are you slavering about this is the very point I am making. Mourinho had exactly the same players available as Solskjaer does ... but he did not know how to play them and the team suffered... exactly the same thing can happen at any other team... stop flogging your horse its dead! Solskjaer has taken exactly the same players Mourinho had and is delivering a different and better brand of football end of. There is no reason whatsoever why a new manager at Hearts could not do exactly the same.

Edited by jock _turd
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Kirky Jambo
38 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We've lost one Cup game since July so I would say we've excelled. Look at Cup exits over the years. Any cup win is a good cup win regardless of opposition. 

 

Most teams that don’t win the cups will only lose two games, I would say we get pass marks in the cups this year so far, and if we go out to either Partick or ICT then it has to be classed as a failure on the whole.

 

ideal scenario for me this season is Levein leaves us with a cup win as his legacy, like Sergio did. As long as McGlynn isn’t next in line...

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Bazzas right boot

The man Utd example is horrible. 

 

OGS was a very successful coach before he went there, he'd won titles in Norway. 

 

No manager of that calibre will come to us. 

 

If we can attract a young manager with his playing career and his management record of I'd be all for it. 

 

Aligned To the fact that Man Utd, compared to budgets and player spend were way under performing he had a large margin for improvement, we are one place behind ours, the man u example is horrific. 

 

 

Edited by Olly Lee's left boot
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Mr Elwood P
Just now, jock _turd said:

 

What are you slavering about this is the very point I am making. Mourinho had exactly the same players available as Solskjaer does ... but he did not know how to play them and the team suffered... exactly the same thing can happen at any other team... stop flogging your horse its dead! Solskjaer has taken exactly the same players Mourinho had and is delivering a different and better brand of football end of.

 

He's not as pointed out. Pogba has been instrumental to the success under Solskjaer.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

With that attitude it would be as well shutting down the whole board or not allowing any threads about the Manager and his Staff and players.

 

The whole point of forums like this is for people to air their views and read counter arguments surely?

 

Agreed however this one has been done more times that a Leith hooker. It goes round and round. Every time there is a loss its the same thing over and over again. Same people waiting in the wings to rehash the same boring negative arguments.

 

There really is nothing more to say on the subject but the same people will say the same thing again and again. 

 

Its been done to death and as I pointed out above nothing will be done with regard to Leveins position unless something drastic happens like not making the split before anything (potentially) would happen.

 

This will not stop the same posters saying the same thing over and over again.

 

Perhaps if I keep saying the same boring thing over and over again it might sink in just how many times the same thing has been said over and over again?

 

Oh and I forgot something over and over again. "opinions" which people are entitled to. We know their opinions as we have heard them over and over again.

 

You getting me now sport?

 

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Mr Elwood P
1 minute ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

The man Utd example is horrible. 

 

OGS was a very successful coach before he went there, he'd won titles in Norway. 

 

No manager of that calibre will come to us. 

 

If we can attract a young manager with his playing career and his management record of d be all for it. 

 

Aligned To the fact that Man Utd, compared to budgets and player spend were way under performing he had a large margin for improvement, we are one place behind ours, the man u example is horrific. 

 

 

 

For the attention of @jock _turd !

 

 

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1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He's not as pointed out. Pogba has been instrumental to the success under Solskjaer.

 

 

 

 

Pogba was available to Mourinho though? 

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Enzo Chiefo
Just now, jock _turd said:

 

What are you slavering about this is the very point I am making. Mourinho had exactly the same players available as Solskjaer does ... but he did not know how to play them and the team suffered... exactly the same thing can happen at any other team... stop flogging your horse its dead! Solskjaer has taken exactly the same players Mourinho had and is delivering a different and better brand of football end of.

I don't know how some posters fail to understand the comparison.  A new manager, Solksjaer or Clarke, can get more out of underperforming players than the previous manager did, regardless of the level of player. 

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2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He's not as pointed out. Pogba has been instrumental to the success under Solskjaer.

 

 

 

 

Em....

 

Pogba was there under Jose....his bad man management ensured he wasn’t getting the most out of him. 

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Mr Elwood P
Just now, jock _turd said:

 

Pogba was available to Mourinho though? 

 

They had publicly fallen out and Pogba either wasn't playing or playing at half speed. We don't have any marginalised superstars for the potential new gaffer to pull out the bag.

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Enzo Chiefo
Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

They had publicly fallen out and Pogba either wasn't playing or playing at half speed. We don't have any marginalised superstars for the potential new gaffer to pull out the bag.

You've just described an underperforming player. Whether he doesn't like the manager or whether he is shackled to a negative system that doesn't allow him to perform, or simply played out of position, a mew manager can change it around.

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10 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

They had publicly fallen out and Pogba either wasn't playing or playing at half speed. We don't have any marginalised superstars for the potential new gaffer to pull out the bag.

 

 That is neither here nor there and highlights exactly why some managers are better than others. You can't have your cake and eat. Its same players different team different results and all down to a different management system. And there is no reason why something like this can happen at any team never mind Hearts.

Edited by jock _turd
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13 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I don't know how some posters fail to understand the comparison.  A new manager, Solksjaer or Clarke, can get more out of underperforming players than the previous manager did, regardless of the level of player. 

 Or they can be a complete disaster like Cathro.

 

The main complaint under Neilson seemed to be away, derby and cup form. Levein has turned all three around. We haven’t yet translated that into a higher league spot and trophy but we’re certainly on the right track this season.

 

We will get a season soon when it all comes together - derby, home, away and cup form - like we do every 5 years or so, but we won’t if we change manager all the time.

 

We’ll end up with “transition seasons” every couple of years.

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19 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

What are you slavering about this is the very point I am making. Mourinho had exactly the same players available as Solskjaer does ... but he did not know how to play them and the team suffered... exactly the same thing can happen at any other team... stop flogging your horse its dead! Solskjaer has taken exactly the same players Mourinho had and is delivering a different and better brand of football end of. There is no reason whatsoever why a new manager at Hearts could not do exactly the same.

 

You are chucking the insults about more than anyone else on this thread. MEP is actually showing quite admirable restraint.

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9 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

 That is neither here nor there and highlights exactly why some managers are better than others. You can't have your cake and eat. Its same players different team different results and all down to a different management system. And there is no reason why something like this can happen at any team never mind Hearts.

Did we sign a World Cup winner that we have had sat in the stands?

Excellent news. Hope he starts on Tuesday.

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13 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

They had publicly fallen out and Pogba either wasn't playing or playing at half speed. We don't have any marginalised superstars for the potential new gaffer to pull out the bag.

 

Come on, the new man can turn wighton and vanacek into robbo and clark just by being new. It’s guaranteed!

 

The other reason I’m not keen on a knee jerk change is new

managers tend not to put their faith in youth as its too risky, which could undo a lot if good work with the academy. Instead they turn to players they used to manage.

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Enzo Chiefo
8 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 Or they can be a complete disaster like Cathro.

 

The main complaint under Neilson seemed to be away, derby and cup form. Levein has turned all three around. We haven’t yet translated that into a higher league spot and trophy but we’re certainly on the right track this season.

 

We will get a season soon when it all comes together - derby, home, away and cup form - like we do every 5 years or so, but we won’t if we change manager all the time.

 

We’ll end up with “transition seasons” every couple of years.

Levein has already lost more away games this season than Neilson did in the only entire SPL season that he managed. I'm not sure how that equates to "turning our away form around"?? 

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Football supporters are idiotic at times. 

 

I remember Man Utd supporters wanting Sir Alex booted over the years while he was winning everything. 

 

 

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Some people will never be happy no matter what we achieve and equally some will never be unhappy no matter what dross is served up.

 

There's pages of each of those camps debating back and forth. It's pointless, you'll never change the other side's opinion. 

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HeartofHartley

Levein would rather win 1-0 than 3-1. I'd rather win 3-1 and see goals. Simple. Hes negative, boring and clearly has no desire to play the beautiful game in a beautiful way. 

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2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Levein has already lost more away games this season than Neilson did in the only entire SPL season that he managed. I'm not sure how that equates to "turning our away form around"?? 

It equates to the fact that Hibs and Rangers were not in the top league.  Does that help?

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Toxteth O'Grady
6 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

Football supporters are idiotic at times. 

 

I remember Man Utd supporters wanting Sir Alex booted over the years while he was winning everything. 

 

 

While some on here are wanting to keep a manager who has never won anything

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Bridge of Djoum
10 minutes ago, HeartofHartley said:

Levein would rather win 1-0 than 3-1. I'd rather win 3-1 and see goals. Simple. Hes negative, boring and clearly has no desire to play the beautiful game in a beautiful way. 

Odd comments from a guy insisting we play injured players.

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14 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Levein has already lost more away games this season than Neilson did in the only entire SPL season that he managed. I'm not sure how that equates to "turning our away form around"?? 

 

Away wins. Anyhow if true that begs the question, why did folk want Neilson out? The constant calls for Levein or anyone connected to Levein to go are ridiculous. The goalposts of what we want from our manager keep moving. What Neilson did not so well - derbies and cups - Levein has done well. If folk are expecting us to win cups, derbies, away games, and beat the OF and finish 2nd or 3rd every season they've lost their minds.

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6 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

While some on here are wanting to keep a manager who has never won anything

 

So your criteria for a new manager is that they have to have a proven record of winning major trophies with clubs smaller than us?

 

That must narrow our list to John Hughes, Tommy Wright, and Alan Stubbs then of managers we could afford.  Has Steve Clarke won anything as a manager as he must be shite too by your standards?

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9 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

While some on here are wanting to keep a manager who has never won anything

 

So, you'll be suggesting a manager who has won something next then, your favoured choice is whom?

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Bazzas right boot
31 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Did we sign a World Cup winner that we have had sat in the stands?

Excellent news. Hope he starts on Tuesday.

 

 

Close, we have AFCON winner in our team. 

 

?

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Bazzas right boot
23 minutes ago, Taffin said:

Some people will never be happy no matter what we achieve and equally some will never be unhappy no matter what dross is served up.

 

There's pages of each of those camps debating back and forth. It's pointless, you'll never change the other side's opinion. 

 

 

Think your wrong. 

 

Can't speak for everyone but I'm content for CL to see the season out and review it in the summer. 

 

If we were bottom six and nothing to play for I'd want change now. 

 

With 3rd/4th a possibility and a Cup final possible I don't want him sacked. 

 

I think that is perfectly reasonable tbh. 

 

 

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Bazzas right boot
46 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

 That is neither here nor there and highlights exactly why some managers are better than others. You can't have your cake and eat. Its same players different team different results and all down to a different management system. And there is no reason why something like this can happen at any team never mind Hearts.

 

 

Could easily crash and burn as well, ala terry butcher. 

 

You have no idea which way it will go tbh. 

 

Atm we DO have 3rd /4th to play for and a possible cup final. 

 

Cheer up. 

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Bazzas right boot
15 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Away wins. Anyhow if true that begs the question, why did folk want Neilson out? The constant calls for Levein or anyone connected to Levein to go are ridiculous. The goalposts of what we want from our manager keep moving. What Neilson did not so well - derbies and cups - Levein has done well. If folk are expecting us to win cups, derbies, away games, and beat the OF and finish 2nd or 3rd every season they've lost their minds.

 

 

We were actually in about 2nd but people wanted Robbie sacked, after a third place finish upon promotion. 

 

Then said posters celebrated Cathro, now same posters in large part have been against CL from the start and now want him sacked with 3rd/4th a possibility and a cup final on the horizon. 

 

You couldn't make it up. 

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The Real Maroonblood
59 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

What are you slavering about this is the very point I am making. Mourinho had exactly the same players available as Solskjaer does ... but he did not know how to play them and the team suffered... exactly the same thing can happen at any other team... stop flogging your horse its dead! Solskjaer has taken exactly the same players Mourinho had and is delivering a different and better brand of football end of. There is no reason whatsoever why a new manager at Hearts could not do exactly the same.

Your post is fair enough.

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15 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Away wins. Anyhow if true that begs the question, why did folk want Neilson out? The constant calls for Levein or anyone connected to Levein to go are ridiculous. The goalposts of what we want from our manager keep moving. What Neilson did not so well - derbies and cups - Levein has done well. If folk are expecting us to win cups, derbies, away games, and beat the OF and finish 2nd or 3rd every season they've lost their minds.

IMO, not many did. Very few in fact and the plane spotters got pelters on here for that carry on. I'd say the difference now is there is a significant change in attitude amongst fans who are frustrated and bored with what has been served up over the last 3 years and in their view, there is  a common denominator.  I'm not trying to start the same old "Levein out" chat just trying to make a distinction between then and now. I've no doubt CL will still be in charge next season but happy to wait another year for change. 

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12 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Think your wrong. 

 

Can't speak for everyone but I'm content for CL to see the season out and review it in the summer. 

 

If we were bottom six and nothing to play for I'd want change now. 

 

With 3rd/4th a possibility and a Cup final possible I don't want him sacked. 

 

I think that is perfectly reasonable tbh. 

 

 

 

 

It is perfectly reasonable, but then you're not one of the zealots on either side. Or at least I don't think you are.

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Bridge of Djoum
Just now, Taffin said:

 

 

It is perfectly reasonable, but then you're not one of the zealots on either side. Or at least I don't think you are.

He is. But he is also able to balance his opinions and not over-react at every setback. 

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7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

IMO, not many did. Very few in fact and the plane spotters got pelters on here for that carry on. I'd say the difference now is there is a significant change in attitude amongst fans who are frustrated and bored with what has been served up over the last 3 years and in their view, there is  a common denominator.  I'm not trying to start the same old "Levein out" chat just trying to make a distinction between then and now. I've no doubt CL will still be in charge next season but happy to wait another year for change. 

 

Momentum's everything in football. Levein handled last season's transition well, making us harder to beat and getting our derby mojo back. He then started this season amazingly well but lost that momentum with injuries to all our best players. That said we're still just a few points off Europe and with a potentially great cup run on the cards. He's definitely done enough to deserve to see out his contract IMO.

 

If the change people want is winning, attractive football, what teams in Scotland regularly do that and which manager is guaranteed to deliver that?

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Geoff the Mince

For me the football has been poor for a good few months and i don't think Levein's getting the best out the players .

 

I can't see the football changing for the better and most people I meet who go on a regular basis are fed up .

 

 

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1 minute ago, Geoff the Mince said:

For me the football has been poor for a good few months and i don't think Levein's getting the best out the players .

 

I can't see the football changing for the better and most people I meet who go on a regular basis are fed up .

 

 

 

That is a very fair point BUT there are some on here that think if you change the manager ... you have to change the players as well  for some reason. I don't understand it ... why would you have to change the players to change the way a team plays ??

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9 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

For me the football has been poor for a good few months and i don't think Levein's getting the best out the players .

 

I can't see the football changing for the better and most people I meet who go on a regular basis are fed up .

 

 

 

I think that’s fair enough, if that’s what people feel and think. I get it, even if I don’t agree. One thing that’s been said a couple of times, is that Levein tries to play a system that doesn’t work when we don’t have good enough players to implement it. Again, I think there’s maybe something in that. Thing is though, if he manages to keep hold of our good players and just add three or four of equal quality next season, then maybe we will see the real deal? Maybe not right enough, just trying to have a reasoned debate on the subject.

 

Every manager’s signings are hit or miss, and you can’t realistically get it spot on in one season, you need a couple of years to see who the good ones are, keep them and then keep them and add to them. Levein has already re-signed a few of our good players, a few of the serious failures will leave, and if we can add a few more really good players, then suddenly the system he wants to play starts looking a lot more entertaining.

Edited by Glib and Shameless Crier
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7 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

For me the football has been poor for a good few months and i don't think Levein's getting the best out the players .

 

I can't see the football changing for the better and most people I meet who go on a regular basis are fed up .

 

 

He seemed to be getting the best out of them before the injuries struck.

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Alex Kintner
1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Levein has already lost more away games this season than Neilson did in the only entire SPL season that he managed. I'm not sure how that equates to "turning our away form around"?? 

 

Actually unless I’ve got my numbers wrong...Levein has won the same amount of away games as Neilson did (7) and lost the same amount of away games (6)? ?

 

 We still have 5 or 6 away games left and all we need is one more away win for Levein to have improved upon Neilson’s record ??

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2 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

He seemed to be getting the best out of them before the injuries struck.

 He was and the team was really confident. To an extent I don't think things have been the same since he had his health scare... might be nothing to do with that but sometimes when I see him on the touchline he looks like a lost soul to be honest.

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Geoff the Mince
Just now, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

I think that’s fair enough, if that’s what people feel and think. I get it, even if I don’t agree. One thing that’s been said a couple of times, is that Levein tries to play a system that doesn’t work when we don’t have good enough players to implement it. Again, I think there’s maybe something in that. Things is though, if he manages to keep hold of our food players and just add three or four of equal quality next season, then maybe we will see the real deal? Maybe not right, just trying to have a reasoned debate on the subject.

 

Every manager’s signings are hit or miss, and you can’t realistically get it spot on in one season, you need a couple of years to see who the good ones are, keep them and then keep them and add to them. Levein has already re-signed a few of our good players, a few of the serious failures will leave, and if we can add a few more really good players, then suddenly the system he wants to play starts looking a lot more entertaining.

I actually don't think  the squad ain't too bad , it's the way they play (or restricted to play)

 

Another issue is that Djoum and Naismith are unlikely to be here next season .

 

I usually don't comment too much on this as I can't be bothered with the constant bickering .

 

Anyway the next 2 months may have a big factor in what happens next season.

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4 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 He was and the team was really confident. To an extent I don't think things have been the same since he had his health scare... might be nothing to do with that but sometimes when I see him on the touchline he looks like a lost soul to be honest.

But you don't think the injuries have made any difference?

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5 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

That is a very fair point BUT there are some on here that think if you change the manager ... you have to change the players as well  for some reason. I don't understand it ... why would you have to change the players to change the way a team plays ??

You might have a point if it wasn't for the fact we have some very important games coming up.

Absolute madness to even contemplate changing manager and coaching staff at this point when we could still have a very positive end to the season.

I get the impression that some people have let their hatred of CL cloud their commonsense. 

If we were fighting relegation and banking on a change as a last resort I could see the point but we have had a reasonable season by our own standards and could end up as a good season.

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Geoff the Mince
7 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

He seemed to be getting the best out of them before the injuries struck.

This is true but since November its been poor and it's now March .

 

Do you enjoy  watching the football Al ?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Geoff the Mince said:

I actually don't think  the squad ain't too bad , it's the way they play (or restricted to play)

 

Another issue is that Djoum and Naismith are unlikely to be here next season .

 

I usually don't comment too much on this as I can't be bothered with the constant bickering .

 

Anyway the next 2 months may have a big factor in what happens next season.

 

It is a worry that we might have to try and replace Naismith and Djoum. That is not an easy task. The market we operate in, it’s not something you just go and do. Hopefully we keep Naismith and only have to try and replace Djoum, Inthink that’s more feasible than trying to replace the pair. 

 

Keep Naismith and extend Haring’s Deal, on top of the deals we’ve done already, and I don’t think we will be too far away, with just three really good signings, mainly in the wide and central attacking areas.

 

We will see though. Plenty left to play for this season, as you said.

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2 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

This is true but since November its been poor and it's now March .

 

Do you enjoy  watching the football Al ?

 

 

How many key players were missing in November, and since?  They are gradually coming back into the team but some are taking more time than others to get back in the groove after a long lay-off.  I wish it were different but that is the reality.

I have not particularly enjoyed the football recently but understand the difficulties we've had.  Too many on here who appear to have an excessive sense of entitlement.

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1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Momentum's everything in football. Levein handled last season's transition well, making us harder to beat and getting our derby mojo back. He then started this season amazingly well but lost that momentum with injuries to all our best players. That said we're still just a few points off Europe and with a potentially great cup run on the cards. He's definitely done enough to deserve to see out his contract IMO.

 

If the change people want is winning, attractive football, what teams in Scotland regularly do that and which manager is guaranteed to deliver that?

That's not what I said and IMO it's not what people who want change believe is really achievable, certainly not if the foreseeable future , with this current squad. As for your question, I don't know why you're asking me, it's not what I posted about.  CL will IMO get to see out his contract for the reasons you set out. 

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