Levein’s time is up...

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

They are now on a downward spiral and play a very negative brand of football which wouldn't suit our fans. Has Levein not made a significant improvement on the results under Cathro?

 

https://us.soccerway.com/teams/scotland/kilmarnock-fc/1906/matches/

 

I think that is partly down to Clarke stopping the rot that they were in and going back to getting them organised particularly in defence.

 

He has players that work hard all over the park and I would imagine that given some money he may well try and improve them and make them a more attacking team.

[jock _turd]

13 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

They play in the same league as us and don't have some of the best players in the world so it would be a more appropriate place to start when comparing teams. Perhaps a comparison to Hibs or Aberdeen would be the most appropriate comparison. We are having a far better season than Hibs but a less successful one than Aberdeen, thus far.

 

You are an arse and shift the goal posts when your question is answered precisely. It does not matter what league and what players some managers can get better out of exactly the same set of players than another and what happened at ManU is evidence of that what more do you want? You only want the question to apply to Hearts current playing staff? Well of course you cannopt answer your question if that is the case UNLESS CL get told to bolt and someone takes over with the same players BUT at ManU exactly what you postulated has happened and hey presto the results on the park using exactly the same set of players is night and day ... what the F more do you want to answer this question

 

 

"So a new manager is coming in retaining the same players, the background staff but is going to produce an entirely different brand of football. Seems unlikely."

 

 

 

 I reiterate for the hard of thinking the quality of player does not matter it is what the manager gets from them that counts and there is no reason whatsoever to assume that a new manager arriving at Hearts could not have the current squad playing better football... too difficult for you to understand ??

Edited March 10, 2019 by jock _turd

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Getting to a Cup Final by beating Livvy, Auchinleck, Partick and Inverness could not be considered to be a remarkable achievement. Stephen Robinson managed it twice last season with some scalps along the way. Winning it by beating one of the OF would be a great achievement. Finishing 4th, by AB's own criteria , in view of the financial support she has given CL would be the minimum expected.  It shouldn't be taken as a reason for him to stay.

 

 

Not a reason to sack either tho. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Olly Lee's left boot

[Bridge of Djoum]

1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

 

Just because things have much much worse doesn’t make things ok.

 

Things were much worse in 1980 but we didn’t have 13,000 season ticket holders and an average home gate of 17,000 and bringing in millions toward the playing budget. We’re awarding a 57 year old defender a new deal but can only afford one centre forward. We’re on our about our 7th left back in 3 seasons. Our manager has admitted he can’t get the players to adapt to life without two players. It’s questionable management to say the least.

 

I like CL and I hope he turns it round but we absolutely deserve better than watching what is being served up by the players.

Getting more ridiculous and fantasy based as the thread ''progresses''.

[Mr Elwood P]

2 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

You are an arse and shift the goal posts when your question is answered precisely. It does not matter what league and what players some managers can get better out of exactly the same set of players than another and what happened at ManU is evidence of that what more do you want? You only want the question to apply to Hearts current playing staff? Well of course you cannopt answer your question if that is the case UNLESS CL get told to bolt and someone takes over with the same players BUT at ManU exactly what you postulated has happened and hey presto the results on the park using exactly the same set of players is night and day ... what the F more do you want to answer this question

 

 

"So a new manager is coming in retaining the same players, the background staff but is going to produce an entirely different brand of football. Seems unlikely."

 I reiterate for the hard of thinking the quality of player does not matter it is what the manager gets from them that counts and there is no reason whatsoever to assume that a new manager arriving at Hearts could not have the current squad playing better football... too difficult for you to understand ??

 

Can you write this again with the correct grammar and punctuation so I've got some kind of idea what you are TRYING to say?

 

Thank you.

Arse.

[Jodami]

4 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Not as much as Manchester United, no. Still an awful lot of variables which mean it’s never an exact science though.

It's a reasonable comparison in the same league Mothy and clearly demonstrates that change can stimulate improvement. The current team lack ideas as clearly demonstrated in their inability to change in the second half on Monday. New ideas are required, it might be a case of bringing in the right head coach and moving Levein back upstairs as he seems to get a lot of the off the field stuff correct. I don't know exactly what the solution might be but I do know that the current coaching group are unlikely to improve our issues surrounding style of play. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

How's that thread title doing...

[DH1986]

10 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Getting more ridiculous and fantasy based as the thread ''progresses''.

 

Not really,

 

Hughes was a complete waste of money and that cash would have been better kept and utilised to sign another forward as a back up to Uche. To see the transfer window close and leave us with only one CF and no direct back up to such an important position was a massive massive mistake. 

 

I said this at the time.

Edited March 10, 2019 by DH1986

[jock _turd]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Can you write this again with the correct grammar and punctuation so I've got some kind of idea what you are TRYING to say?

 

Thank you.

Arse.

 

Sorry hastily written on a football forum. Your question is in quotes and it has been answered precisely. You don't like the answer because it has shot down your standpoint... fair enough... but don't dismiss what can happen when someone who can work with the same set of players used by another manager, so ineffectively, to produce an entirely different outcome! 

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

Not really,

 

Hughes was a complete waste of money and that cash would have been better kept and utilised to sign another forward as a back up to Uche. To see the transfer window close and leave us with only one CF and no direct back up to such an important position was a massive massive mistake. 

 

I said this at the time.

57 years old?

 

One center forward? Not sure on your definition of that but in the forward positions, not wide players... Naismith, Vanecek, McLean, Keena, Uche.

[Mr Elwood P]

4 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Sorry hastily written on a football forum. Your question is in quotes and it has been answered precisely. You don't like the answer because it has shot down your standpoint... fair enough... but don't dismiss what can happen when someone who can work with the same set of players used by another manager, so ineffectively, to produce an entirely different outcome! 

 

No my point still stands. Hearts don't have any world class players and the suggestion that anyone could have the effect at Hearts that Solskjaer has had at Manchester United is ridiculous. Manchester United had players like Paul Pogba, World Cup winner, playing at less than half of their ability. We don't have any superstar players and I don't believe that anymore than 10% extra could be got out of any individual. We have the 4th biggest budget in the league and will likely finish 4th with a couple of Cup semi finals thrown in.

Edited March 10, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[jr ewing]

Heard Levein's leavin' anyway.

[DH1986]

6 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

57 years old?

 

One center forward? Not sure on your definition of that but in the forward positions, not wide players... Naismith, Vanecek, McLean, Keena, Uche.

 

Oh dear.

 

Firstly.....

 

Neither Vanecek or Keena were at the club when the transfer window closed. 

 

Secondly....

 

Neither Naismith or McLean can be classed as back up to Uche. 

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

Oh dear.

 

Firstly.....

 

Neither Vanecek or Keena were at the club when the transfer window closed. 

 

Secondly....

 

Neither Naismith or McLean can be classed as back up to Uche. 

 

The summer transfer window? I must've missed you saying that. 

 

Also. McLean and Naismith are forwards, play in the center. I'm not sure why the ''back-up to Uche'' bit is relevant if we have more than one striker at the club. 

 

Difference of opinion, perhaps.

[jock _turd]

13 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

No my point still stands. Hearts don't have any world class players and the suggestion that anyone could have the effect at Hearts that Solskjaer has had at Manchester United is ridiculous. Manchester United had players like Paul Pogba, World Cup winner, playing at less than half of their ability. We don't have any superstar players and I don't believe that anymore than 10% extra could be got out of any individual. We have the 4th biggest budget in the league and will likely finish 4th with a couple of Cup semi finals thrown in.

 

Are you thick or just being a bit pedantic ? It does not matter what the quality of the players is or the league they play in. What has happened at Man U is evidence that the manager can have a huge effect on the performance of players end of. You asked the question and I answered it using an outstanding example.  The same principle applies to any set of players within the league that they play in. You are mentioning ManU stars as though they are playing against a shower of numpties... they are playing against the same quality of players in the EPL... only now Solskjaer is getting them to play whereas Mourinho could not ... that is a managerial effect on the same staff !

Edited March 10, 2019 by jock _turd

[DH1986]

1 minute ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

The summer transfer window? I must've missed you saying that. 

 

Also. McLean and Naismith are forwards, play in the center. I'm not sure why the ''back-up to Uche'' bit is relevant if we have more than one striker at the club. 

 

Difference of opinion, perhaps.

 

Because Uche was practically central to everything in this team. We have no width or no midfielder who can constantly get the ball and run with it so Uche was our only out ball. His hold up play brought McLean and Naismith into games and gave them space to play.

 

We had no plan B and our manager said as much.

[JamboAl]

45 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I take it comparing us to Kilmarnock would not be idiotic. 

Is that the same Killie who have only won twice this year (including a cup tie against the mighty Forfar) and who have failed to score in their last 5 games?

Is that the standard we need to aspire to?

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, jock _turd said:

 

Are you thick or just being a bit pedantic ? It does not matter what the quality of the players is or the league they play in. What has happened at Man U is evidence that the manager can have a huge effect on the performance of players end of. You asked the question and I answered it using an outstanding example.  The same principle applies to any set of players.

 

Why do you have to resort to personal abuse instead of debating the point in a calm and reasonable manner. The use of personal abuse is the tell tale sign of intellectual bankruptcy and a weak point that won't stand up to scrutiny. 

 

To explain the point as you don't seem to understand what I'm saying. A player has a maximum performance level which is 100%. The Manchester United superstars under Mourinho were performing at about 40% so Solskjaer was able to make a huge impact on their performance levels which are now for players like Pogba and Rashford approaching 100% of their true ability. The Hearts players are not currently performing at such a low % of their true ability and as such a new manager would not make the same kind of dramatic impact. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Silly me, i'd forgotten we have a squad full of Premier League, Champions League and World Cup winners just waiting for the right management to come in and spark them into life. What a truly idiotic comparison. Take it Levein is Mourinho in your example!

Hardly idiotic.  The comparison is a different manager getting more from the same players. What relevance is the quality of players? Yes, Levein is Lee McCulloch and Jose Mourinho in my examples.

[Bull's-eye]

6 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Why do you have to resort to personal abuse instead of debating the point in a calm and reasonable manner. The use of personal abuse is the tell tale sign of intellectual bankruptcy and a weak point that won't stand up to scrutiny. 

 

To explain the point as you don't seem to understand what I'm saying. A player has a maximum performance level which is 100%. The Manchester United superstars under Mourinho were performing at about 40% so Solskjaer was able to make a huge impact on their performance levels which are now for players like Pogba and Rashford approaching 100% of their true ability. The Hearts players are not currently performing at such a low % of their true ability and as such a new manager would not make the same kind of dramatic impact. 

 

A new manager can't set up the opposition either. 

 

A point I think is valid because there's quite a few on here that don't realise there's another 11 players on the pitch trying hard to stop us.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Hardly idiotic.  The comparison is a different manager getting more from the same players. What relevance is the quality of players? Yes, Levein is Lee McCulloch and Jose Mourinho in my examples.

 

As explained above the players have to be massively underperforming before a change of manager can instigate a seismic change in performance levels. The Hearts players are not massively underperforming. We have the 4th biggest budget and we are equal on points with 4th place. We have excelled in the Cups. At least you are able to debate the point without resorting to abuse!

[Jodami]

10 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Is that the same Killie who have only won twice this year (including a cup tie against the mighty Forfar) and who have failed to score in their last 5 games?

Is that the standard we need to aspire to?

And yet they are still above us and have scored more goals... 

[Enzo Chiefo]

58 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

So now getting to a final means less if you don't beat ''scalps'' along the way?

 

Even for you that's ******* pathetic.

Nice hyperbole but using victories against lower league teams as evidence that Levein is doing a good job is what's ****** pathetic.  Yes, we can only beat who we are drawn against but in any case he will be judged in the final if, and it's a big if, we get there.

[JamboAl]

1 minute ago, Jodami said:

And yet they are still above us and have scored more goals... 

They are indeed but have not had the serious injuries we've had, not to mention controversial reffing decisions.

Clarke did make an immediate impact but if it's not sustainable it's not something we would want at Tynie.  I am starting to get a sense of deja vu wuth Clarke's tenure at WBA where he started well before poor results got him sacked.

[Beast Boy]

12 minutes ago, Jodami said:

It's a reasonable comparison in the same league Mothy and clearly demonstrates that change can stimulate improvement. The current team lack ideas as clearly demonstrated in their inability to change in the second half on Monday. New ideas are required, it might be a case of bringing in the right head coach and moving Levein back upstairs as he seems to get a lot of the off the field stuff correct. I don't know exactly what the solution might be but I do know that the current coaching group are unlikely to improve our issues surrounding style of play. 

 

It’s definitely a far more reasonable comparison. I agree. We are far closer to Kilmarnock in terms of resources, than we are to Man U. 

 

I’m inclined to think Levein is building up to a Cup win or Europa League run. That’s just my instincts though, mate. No more or less worthwhile than those of others who think he is shite.

 

His style these last two seasons hasn’t been to everyone’s liking, but for me winning is EVERYTHING and I’ll take winning by one goal if it brings silverware or a European campaign. When he then leaves the post, I’ll be looking forward to the very possible resurgence that a new man could bring. Until then, I’m happy to see where he can take us. ?

[jock _turd]

24 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Why do you have to resort to personal abuse instead of debating the point in a calm and reasonable manner. The use of personal abuse is the tell tale sign of intellectual bankruptcy and a weak point that won't stand up to scrutiny. 

 

To explain the point as you don't seem to understand what I'm saying. A player has a maximum performance level which is 100%. The Manchester United superstars under Mourinho were performing at about 40% so Solskjaer was able to make a huge impact on their performance levels which are now for players like Pogba and Rashford approaching 100% of their true ability. The Hearts players are not currently performing at such a low % of their true ability and as such a new manager would not make the same kind of dramatic impact. 

 

Yadda yadda mate you are dribbling now! I you want an intellectual conversation and debate don't come onto a football forum.

 I will quite happily have a conversation or debate but when you start trying to shift your standpoint to make your point for get it. Now you are trying to tell my that in fact it is the players who are the problem and no amount of management is going to deliver significantly better performance... which is total nonsense ... if the players we have could give even a 10% improvement over what they are doing at the moment that would, in my opinion, be significant and I personally think there is a lot more under the hood that is not being tapped currently. The major problem at the moment is the players are lacking confidence, blind Pew could see that, and confidence comes from the top down not the bottom up!

Edited March 10, 2019 by jock _turd

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Nice hyperbole but using victories against lower league teams as evidence that Levein is doing a good job is what's ****** pathetic.  Yes, we can only beat who we are drawn against but in any case he will be judged in the final if, and it's a big if, we get there.

Getting to semi's and finals is a good job. Being 4 points off 3rd at this point in the season is a good/decent job. No, the football isn't exciting in the slightest but it has gotten us here, in a position that isn't bad at all. I prefer to judge on the entire season, results/achievements/targets over match performances. 

 

Zero hyperbole used by me. And for you, as usual, zero balance applied.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Yadda yadda mate you are dribbling now! I you want an intellectual conversation and debate don't come onto a football forum.

 I will quite happily have a conversation or debate but when you start trying to shift your standpoint to make your point for get it. Now you are trying to tell my that in fact it is the players who are the problem and no amount of management is going to deliver significantly better performance... which is total nonsense ... if the players we have could give even a 10% improvement over what they are doing at the moment that would, in my opinion, and I personally think there is a lot more under the hood that is not being tapped currently. The major problem at the moment is the players are lacking confidence, blind Pew could see that, and confidence comes from the top down not the bottom up!

 

I’ve not changed my point once. You just don’t seem to understand what I am saying. 

[Jodami]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

They are indeed but have not had the serious injuries we've had, not to mention controversial reffing decisions.

Clarke did make an immediate impact but if it's not sustainable it's not something we would want at Tynie.  I am starting to get a sense of deja vu wuth Clarke's tenure at WBA where he started well before poor results got him sacked.

His win record with Killie is over 50% (54% I think), Levein's is around 45%. Anyway, the point I am making is not about getting Clarke, he will not manage any other team in Scotland anyway as his family remain down south and he wants a job down there. The point is the potential for a positive response within a group of players to change. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, Jodami said:

His win record with Killie is over 50% (54% I think), Levein's is around 45%. Anyway, the point I am making is not about getting Clarke, he will not manage any other team in Scotland anyway as his family remain down south and he wants a job down there. The point is the potential for a positive response within a group of players to change. 

Source?

[jock _turd]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

I’ve not changed my point once. You just don’t seem to understand what I am saying. 

 

I do understand what you are trying to say... it is just that you are talking total nonsense.  You asked a question I answered it with an example but you say that cannot happen at Hearts within the SPL... and that is nonsense it definitely can .The players we currently have can deliver more is the point you don't want to see. A change of manager could very well get much more in terms of team performance from exactly the same set of players... you can debate on as long as you want but it is a fact managers have significant effect of player/ team performance.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

33 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Is that the same Killie who have only won twice this year (including a cup tie against the mighty Forfar) and who have failed to score in their last 5 games?

Is that the standard we need to aspire to?

And we are still behind them in the league 

[luckydug]

2 hours ago, Artful Dodger said:

Some can't even enjoy a win.

 

????????????

Have some sympathy. 

It's ruined their weekend ☺

[Jodami]

4 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Source?

Steve Clarke. The press conference where he ruled out being interested in the Celtic job and confirmed he would not manage any other club in Scotland. 

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

I do understand what you are trying to say... it is just that you are talking total nonsense.  You asked a question I answered it with an example but you say that cannot happen at Hearts within the SPL... and that is nonsense it definitely can .The players we currently have can deliver more is the point you don't want to see. A change of manager could very well get much more in terms of team performance from exactly the same set of players... you can debate on as long as you want but it is a fact managers have significant effect of player/ team performance.

 

A few other posters ridiculed the Man U comparison, judging by their other posts I would rather be intellectually aligned with them.

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Steve Clarke. The press conference where he ruled out being interested in the Celtic job and confirmed he would not manage any other club in Scotland. 

I was more referring to the ''wants to return to England'' comment. I read that as actively looking. Not clear on my part.

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Jodami said:

Slightly sad that you should ignore the salient points and focus on the deserve element Frank. We are a dreadful team to watch and the current management team seem unable to address this. Logic would suggest that some kind of change is required to address this. We profess to play the same way from academy to first team but this does not happen making it very difficult to bring in our own younger players when injuries happen. I like Levein, he's an intelligent guy but it's frustrating that he talks a much better game than he delivers. 

 

To be fair it was pretty hard to focus on the rest of your post with that corker on the end of it

[Jodami]

19 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

It’s definitely a far more reasonable comparison. I agree. We are far closer to Kilmarnock in terms of resources, than we are to Man U. 

 

I’m inclined to think Levein is building up to a Cup win or Europa League run. That’s just my instincts though, mate. No more or less worthwhile than those of others who think he is shite.

 

His style these last two seasons hasn’t been to everyone’s liking, but for me winning is EVERYTHING and I’ll take winning by one goal if it brings silverware or a European campaign. When he then leaves the post, I’ll be looking forward to the very possible resurgence that a new man could bring. Until then, I’m happy to see where he can take us. ?

I hope we do win the cup. Like 99.9% of us I will keep going to games and want us to win every one of them. Love the club and we are making great progress off the field. 

It's fair to question our style of play and the management though. Sometimes a change is required to get the best out of the resources available. 

[jr ewing]

Gary Holt for me. 

[Allowayjambo1874]

27 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

As explained above the players have to be massively underperforming before a change of manager can instigate a seismic change in performance levels. The Hearts players are not massively underperforming. We have the 4th biggest budget and we are equal on points with 4th place. We have excelled in the Cups. At least you are able to debate the point without resorting to abuse!

I would question excelled in the cups. 

Cove rangers, Raith, Dunfermline, Partick away have seen two one goal wins and two draws.

ICT, Cowdenbeath, Motherwell, Livingston & Auchinleck at home have seen some very heavy wins. 

TBH these results are probably typical of Hearts however I would expect Hearts to win nearly all of these games. Maybe I expect too much. Our only real test was a terrible let down, I wish we could ask CL what the hell bringing on Amwanka was all about in the semi.

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, Allowayjambo1874 said:

I would question excelled in the cups. 

Cove rangers, Raith, Dunfermline, Partick away have seen two one goal wins and two draws.

ICT, Cowdenbeath, Motherwell, Livingston & Auchinleck at home have seen some very heavy wins. 

TBH these results are probably typical of Hearts however I would expect Hearts to win nearly all of these games. Maybe I expect too much. Our only real test was a terrible let down, I wish we could ask CL what the hell bringing on Amwanka was all about in the semi.

 

We've lost one Cup game since July so I would say we've excelled. Look at Cup exits over the years. Any cup win is a good cup win regardless of opposition. 

[Jodami]

3 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

I was more referring to the ''wants to return to England'' comment. I read that as actively looking. Not clear on my part.

I am not sure about actively looking, the part about his family is accurate though. In the same press conference he said he would 100% return to England as that's where his family and life is. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, Jodami said:

I am not sure about actively looking, the part about his family is accurate though. In the same press conference he said he would 100% return to England as that's where his family and life is. 

Yeah I looked up a Guardian article. 

[frankblack]

13 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Gary Holt for me. 

 

[Bridge of Djoum]

17 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Gary Holt for me. 

[jock _turd]

16 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

A few other posters ridiculed the Man U comparison, judging by their other posts I would rather be intellectually aligned with them.

 

Simply because they are taking the example out of context. I was in no way comparing Man U and Hearts but you can certainly compare an underperforming ManU and any other underperforming team within the confines of their respective leagues with respect to the effect of managerial input.

 

But let me turn this question on its head

can you please tell me why any of the following statement has any basis in fact

 

"So a new manager is coming in retaining the same players, the background staff but is going to produce an entirely different brand of football. Seems unlikely."

 

when there are good examples of such a situation you describe actually happening. Clubs get new managers and change the setup it happens regularly... happened at ManU to very good effect.

 

[bobskeldon]

17 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

A few other posters ridiculed the Man U comparison, judging by their other posts I would rather be intellectually aligned with them.

In fairness, he wasn’t comparing Hearts to Man Utd! The principle he argued was that any team and any group of players can be significantly influenced by the coach, the coach’s personality, his football philosophy etc. This applies to Man Utd, Hearts and Cowdenbeath! I am not sure why you fail to recognise this. A good example would be Brendan Rogers at Celtic who made players (who were poor under RD) and the team (who were poor under RD) better!

 

Are you arguing that a change of coach can’t make a difference and/or improve the performance of individuals or the team collectively? 

[JamboAl]

26 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

And we are still behind them in the league 

For your benefit, I'll repeat what I said earlier

 

They are indeed but have not had the serious injuries we've had, not to mention controversial reffing decisions.

Clarke did make an immediate impact but if it's not sustainable it's not something we would want at Tynie.  I am starting to get a sense of deja vu with Clarke's tenure at WBA where he started well before poor results got him sacked.

[jock _turd]

14 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

In fairness, he wasn’t comparing Hearts to Man Utd! The principle he argued was that any team and any group of players can be significantly influenced by the coach, the coach’s personality, his football philosophy etc. This applies to Man Utd, Hearts and Cowdenbeath! I am not sure why you fail to recognise this. A good example would be Brendan Rogers at Celtic who made players (who were poor under RD) and the team (who were poor under RD) better!

 

Are you arguing that a change of coach can’t make a difference and/or improve the performance of individuals or the team collectively? 

 

This! Thank god there are some thinkers on here!

[Mr Elwood P]

14 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

In fairness, he wasn’t comparing Hearts to Man Utd! The principle he argued was that any team and any group of players can be significantly influenced by the coach, the coach’s personality, his football philosophy etc. This applies to Man Utd, Hearts and Cowdenbeath! I am not sure why you fail to recognise this. A good example would be Brendan Rogers at Celtic who made players (who were poor under RD) and the team (who were poor under RD) better!

 

Are you arguing that a change of coach can’t make a difference and/or improve the performance of individuals or the team collectively? 

 

The Manchester United players were massively underperforming creating a huge opportunity for improvement. The Hearts players based on league position and Cup runs are not massively underperforming so the potential for improvement would be limited but not impossible. A new coach could also have the reverse effect of making things worse. Neilson to Cathro being a prime example.

 

18 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

Simply because they are taking the example out of context. I was in no way comparing Man U and Hearts but you can certainly compare an underperforming ManU and any other underperforming team within the confines of their respective leagues with respect to the effect of managerial input.

 

But let me turn this question on its head

can you please tell me why any of the following statement has any basis in fact

 

"So a new manager is coming in retaining the same players, the background staff but is going to produce an entirely different brand of football. Seems unlikely."

 

when there are good examples of such a situation you describe actually happening. Clubs get new managers and change the setup it happens regularly... happened at ManU to very good effect.

 

 

The background staff and entire ethos at the club has been changed under Solskjaer. He has also brought Pogba back into the team. We don't have any World Cup winners currently not getting a game. Everyone yesterday was agreed the lineup was a lot more positive and attacking but it didn't translate, apparently, into the performance on display.