Levein’s time is up...

[Alex Kintner]

5 minutes ago, sadj said:

Man it really makes ya Stew reading the pish

 

Totally rightman 👍🏻

[Enzo Chiefo]

Just now, To Be Frank said:

 

US is a retirement ground, Wigan isn’t a big move and Adam King (nice switch up btw) didn’t get near the Swansea first team 👍🏻

Ahh, so you assumed I meant Billy. Schoolboy error, I'm afraid Frank. Gary Mackay Steven has just moved to NYC to join a league featuring Wayne Rooney. But I'm sure the SPL is a better league. 

[Whatever]

The last 6 hours on this thread have merely shown that reasoned debate on JKB amongst certain posters is dead. 

 

Enzo, Mitch, Winston Churchill et all are so entrenched in their opinion on Levein they are unable to see any positives in the game V Utd.

 

15 shots at goal - all we did is pass sideways and back?

 

A complete and utter waste of time being subjected to reading such nonsense, far less entering into debate with them.

 

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

4 minutes ago, sadj said:

You are a pain in the ass for comparing players. Brandon , Moore , MacDonald , Morrison even Cochrane compared to Nicholson , Walker and King? Comparable would be what money they bring in compared to cost of developing them only them can you adequately say x was better than y

Just saying, for all the big talk about our Academy just now and the constant "jam tomorrow" predictions, we won't know for a few years whether the next batch will be any better than the Class of Vlad.

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ahh, so you assumed I meant Billy. Schoolboy error, I'm afraid Frank. Gary Mackay Steven has just moved to NYC to join a league featuring Wayne Rooney. But I'm sure the SPL is a better league. 

 

Well that’s me convinced that it’s not just a retirement home for players that are past it

[Alex Kintner]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Just saying, for all the big talk about our Academy just now and the constant "jam tomorrow" predictions, we won't know for a few years whether the next batch will be any better than the Class of Vlad.

 

Those of us who actually go to games can see the likes of Hickey are a class above any player developed through our academy in the past five years.

[sadj]

6 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Just saying, for all the big talk about our Academy just now and the constant "jam tomorrow" predictions, we won't know for a few years whether the next batch will be any better than the Class of Vlad.

See thats fairly put and worded but comes across far differently from how it did earlier. That iv no debate with its a fair point 👍🏻 On that note and being fed up of Mitch and his wee/big deluded , thick and stupid comments , i’ll leave him to his merchie madness and crash out 👍🏻

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Whatever said:

The last 6 hours on this thread have merely shown that reasoned debate on JKB amongst certain posters is dead. 

 

Enzo, Mitch, Winston Churchill et all are so entrenched in their opinion on Levein they are unable to see any positives in the game V Utd.

 

15 shots at goal - all we did is pass sideways and back?

 

A complete and utter waste of time being subjected to reading such nonsense, far less entering into debate with them.

 

 

Depends on how you look at the statistics, we did play some good stuff and as you say we had fifteen efforts on goal. We only had six shots on target, six corners and 66% possession, Is that total domination against a team at the same stage of their season from a league. We failed to win once again, his record is Cathroesque since last November and he drew with a championship team too in his last game. Is that a reasoned post that you can debate? Some of the stuff from both sides is embarrassing, me included.

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Those of us who actually go to games can see the likes of Hickey are a class above any player developed through our academy in the past five years.

Yes and Hickey spent more time at Celtic than Hearts academy, as did Cochrane/Currie/Brandon at Rangers. Are we just giving Levein all the credit for them and their development when they’ve played a total of about 50 games under him?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Moving on, we need 3 more wins to guarantee winning the group. Do the Levein Defence Force agree that anything below that is unacceptable?

Edited July 14, 2019 by Geoff Kilpatrick

[Enzo Chiefo]

11 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Well that’s me convinced that it’s not just a retirement home for players that are past it

How about Adam King? Any admission of your error? The point is that the US is seen by Scottish players as a step up? With Aaron Hughes and Steven McLean plying their trade with us last season, I'm not sure we want to go about referring to other leagues as "retirement homes"

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ahh, so you assumed I meant Billy. Schoolboy error, I'm afraid Frank. Gary Mackay Steven has just moved to NYC to join a league featuring Wayne Rooney. But I'm sure the SPL is a better league. 

It does have some superstars like Ibrahimovic but he has teammates like Perry Kitchen. It’s a good standard and extremely attack minded but a bit soft. Danny Wilson is currently playing in midfield for example 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️.

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes and Hickey spent more time at Celtic than Hearts academy, as did Cochrane/Currie/Brandon at Rangers. Are we just giving Levein all the credit for them and their development when they’ve played a total of about 50 games under him?

No it's all very selective Pasquale. The spin room are working flat out to big up Levein.

[Enzo Chiefo]

14 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Those of us who actually go to games can see the likes of Hickey are a class above any player developed through our academy in the past five years.

After 3 competitive games. You're good. I remember the rave reviews about Cochrane and MacDonald a couple of seasons ago. And I thought Brandon was going to be top quality after his debut at Parkhead a few years ago too.

[Alex Kintner]

4 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

How about Adam King? Any admission of your error? The point is that the US is seen by Scottish players as a step up? With Aaron Hughes and Steven McLean plying their trade with us last season, I'm not sure we want to go about referring to other leagues as "retirement homes"

 

You’re right, Adam King got his big move to Swansea reserves 👍🏻

[Enzo Chiefo]

12 minutes ago, sadj said:

See thats fairly put and worded but comes across far differently from how it did earlier. That iv no debate with its a fair point 👍🏻 On that note and being fed up of Mitch and his wee/big deluded , thick and stupid comments , i’ll leave him to his merchie madness and crash out 👍🏻

Fair point Sadj☝️

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

After 3 competitive games. You're good. I remember the rave reviews about Cochrane and MacDonald a couple of seasons ago. And I thought Brandon was going to be top quality after his debut at Parkhead a few years ago too.

 

Those of those who’ve watched him know. If you ever get back to attending games then you’ll know too 👍🏻

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No it's all very selective Pasquale. The spin room are working flat out to big up Levein.

Indeed, on every single thread it would appear.

[Alex Kintner]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes and Hickey spent more time at Celtic than Hearts academy.

 

Wrong. Hickey was with us as a youngster then spent only one year with Celtic before returning to us over a year ago. 👍🏻

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Those of those who’ve watched him know. If you ever get back to attending games then you’ll know too 👍🏻

Well, you're all good in that case.☝️☝️

[Mr Elwood P]

5 hours ago, siegementality said:

Yes, I have two eyes as well. You said, and I quote “Had a few good chances which he would have taken if match fit.

 

So, having two eyes, and being able to read, you’ve said he’d have scored the chances had he been match fit, meaning, he’d have have scored each chance, if match fit, which means he’d have had a 100% strike rate.

 

I’d suggest you think about what you post before slavering shite. 

 

 

 

 

 

I didn’t realise you were such a literal pedant! Clearly he would not have scored every chance but be would have scored at least one, if match fit. In my opinion!

[Mr Elwood P]

5 hours ago, Sir Gio said:

We didn't get the job done. We could have lost a game we should have won and got the bonus ball lottery thing.

 

I understand where the game and the prep crossover,  mostly encouraged but it was against inferior opponents,  and it was not a win. 

 

Not job done in my mind 

 

We need to get more points than Dundee United. They got 1 point. We got 2 points. Job done as far as I am concerned. 3 points and 0 points would obviously have been better but it shouldn’t effect the group having won the pens rather than the match in 90 mins.

[Mr Elwood P]

5 hours ago, Hearts1975 said:

Man Utd are richer than Man City 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48145285

[Hearts1975]

2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48145285

Aah. Ok, apologies.

 

I viewed a link that said that Man U were a richer club

 

I don’t suppose there is a difference between a clubs valuation and how rich they are? 

 

For example, a club could be worth more if it is listed but not in terms of spending power or financial backup 

 

You could have 2 owners of football clubs, one being richer than the other, but the owner with less wealth pours more money into his club and the other owner invests less, although his club makes more turnover and profit gain.

 

Or I am looking at this too deeply 😬

 

 

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Here comes the tag team!  

Sad but true.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

3 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We need to get more points than Dundee United. They got 1 point. We got 2 points. Job done as far as I am concerned. 3 points and 0 points would obviously have been better but it shouldn’t effect the group having won the pens rather than the match in 90 mins.

Nah you really want to be seeded and avoid the possibility of a trip to a top 6 team,  job not done in that sense. 

Kilmarnock learned that lesson last year,  tie against Rangers 

[Mr Elwood P]

45 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Aah. Ok, apologies.

 

I viewed a link that said that Man U were a richer club

 

I don’t suppose there is a difference between a clubs valuation and how rich they are? 

 

For example, a club could be worth more if it is listed but not in terms of spending power or financial backup 

 

You could have 2 owners of football clubs, one being richer than the other, but the owner with less wealth pours more money into his club and the other owner invests less, although his club makes more turnover and profit gain.

 

Or I am looking at this too deeply 😬

 

 

 

Probably doesn’t actually matter because of financial fair play! Not sure how Man U can close the gap. They have to sell Pogba, Lukaku and Sanchez and then spend that money incredibly wisely. Solskjaer has some task ahead of him.

[Mr Elwood P]

11 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Nah you really want to be seeded and avoid the possibility of a trip to a top 6 team,  job not done in that sense. 

Kilmarnock learned that lesson last year,  tie against Rangers 

 

If we win our remaining three games we will surely finish as a top seed anyway? 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

29 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

If we win our remaining three games we will surely finish as a top seed anyway? 

Based on the results yesterday, probably. However, it may come down to goal difference.

[Mr Elwood P]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Based on the results yesterday, probably. However, it may come down to goal difference.

 

The best draw for us is probably Celtic at Tynecastle. Most likely need to beat them to win a trophy. We’ve a much fairer chance of doing that at home.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

The best draw for us is probably Celtic at Tynecastle. Most likely need to beat them to win a trophy. We’ve a much fairer chance of doing that at home.

You are actually mental.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

You are actually mental.

 

Maybe, although I’m pretty sure I’m correct on the above point. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

1 minute ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Maybe, although I’m pretty sure I’m correct on the above point. 

Yep, I can just see you at last year's 5th Round Scottish Cup Draw when Auchinleck came out. "Barsteward, Celtic was who I wanted!".

 

[Mr Elwood P]

4 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Yep, I can just see you at last year's 5th Round Scottish Cup Draw when Auchinleck came out. "Barsteward, Celtic was who I wanted!".

 

 

Not who I would want but who would give us the best chance to win the trophy. Assuming you will have to play Celtic at some point.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Not who I would want but who would give us the best chance to win the trophy. Assuming you will have to play Celtic at some point.

Bad assumption. In our 3 Cup wins from 1998 we only played Celtic once. We only played ye olde Rangers once as well.

[Mr Elwood P]

9 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Bad assumption. In our 3 Cup wins from 1998 we only played Celtic once. We only played ye olde Rangers once as well.

 

You’ve clearly not been paying attention over the last three seasons!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

5 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

You’ve clearly not been paying attention over the last three seasons!

Nor have you to our record against them in those seasons!!

 

I refer you to my mental comment.

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Based on the results yesterday, probably. However, it may come down to goal difference.

 

If we win our next three games it is numerically impossible for any other team to match our points total.

[martoon]

10 hours ago, Whatever said:

The last 6 hours on this thread have merely shown that reasoned debate on JKB amongst certain posters is dead. 

 

Enzo, Mitch, Winston Churchill et all are so entrenched in their opinion on Levein they are unable to see any positives in the game V Utd.

 

15 shots at goal - all we did is pass sideways and back?

 

A complete and utter waste of time being subjected to reading such nonsense, far less entering into debate with them.

 

 

 

Cuts both ways, bud. 

 

The Levein devotees are ridiculously blinkered. So much so, they can't see it. 

 

Poor performances and results are vigorously defended and explained away without even a hint of objectivity or concession that everything is not wonderful. 

 

They are also much swifter to resort to personal insults to discredit and belittle anyone who dares to disagree with them. 

[jambogemz]

10 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Nicholson went to the US, King to Swansea and Walker to Wigan and back to us. Will the likes of Brandon, Cochrane,  MacDonald, Morrison and Moore achieve that ? Time will tell.

I think its fair to assume that Brandon, calum Morrison and Lewis Moore are more than likely going to spend the majority of their careers in the Lower leagues. I've never been overly convinced by either Moore and Morrison and I believe the injury suffered by Brandon has robbed him of vitaly development time when he was looking promising. 

 

Guys like Cochrane, Irving, Macdonald Hickey etc have shown up well when offered the opportunity and are the ones most likely to get the types of moves that would further their  careers. 

 

Let's hope that they continue to develop as they are. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

48 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

If we win our next three games it is numerically impossible for any other team to match our points total.

Only the top 4 group winners are seeded though. I think you need to read the context.

[sadj]

22 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Cuts both ways, bud. 

 

The Levein devotees are ridiculously blinkered. So much so, they can't see it. 

 

Poor performances and results are vigorously defended and explained away without even a hint of objectivity or concession that everything is not wonderful. 

 

They are also much swifter to resort to personal insults to discredit and belittle anyone who dares to disagree with them. 

 

That is just not true , the amount of crap I get for being more objective than negative is pathetic look at last night for instance. Personal abuse is doled it far more often by those who just keep shouting louder and louder with the same spiel no matter what has happened in the game. 

 

Secondly - not one person thinks everything is wonderful but to not have seen positives on Friday night you have to have an unheathy negative spin on everything. 

 

Common sense on Friday said - Irving got himself in trouble but took one for the team after it but when he went off we lost our composure and started lumping it and it was poor. Berra and Zlamal both were badly at fault for the United goal. 

 

Washington , Walker , Mulraney and Clare were all over the place with movement and it really took United apart , United should of been down to 8/9 men before Irving was sent off. bouhemna should of been off in 3mins , def off second half , Sprole should of seen red , Connolly was given 2 get out of jails by Clancy. (Thats off top of my head) we created a lot of chances but a final ball was lacking in and around the box - no reason to believe that won’t come , Uche needs to lift his head , Clare was pinching balls off United midfielders and setting things up , Washington , Walker and Mulraney were driving with the ball and creating openings. Something we couldn’t do last season. On another day that would of been 5/6-1 we battered United but lacked that cutting edge , hopefully that is due to rustiness and the fact these are essentially competitive preseason games. No one is up to speed yet. I think there is goals all through our team now and there will be days we play like that and give a team a doing. Even the 4-1s last season weren’t doings but we took our chances. Balance looks better in the squad. Much as I love Djoum losing him may benefit us because he won’t be shoehorned in. We need to wise up defensively however and that may come when haring is back. Berra has to be on a shoogly peg however. 

 

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Only the top 4 group winners are seeded though. I think you need to read the context.

Looking at it , we need to take our chances as it may well come down to GD , I think County and Motherwell will hit 12 points so we need to get 11 and have a better GD than for instance Hibs. Not a guarantee of going through as a top seed but I would say its in our own hands. United was probably the toughest game anyone will have from a lower league team on paper as they have spent money to ensure they go up this year. 

 

All the negativeness should be put aside look at the positive , United are set up to be essentially a lower Premiership team at the moment and we did more with the ball than we have in a long time. Hopefully we build on it.

[Dallas Green]

22 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

I thought we were good first half, poor second half and created very little after the break.  But let’s put it in perspective  - we were playing a Championship side and even last season I would have expected to beat them at home, although admittedly we nearly made a Jeremy Hunt of beating Patrick in the cup replay at home so no guarantees there.

 

True, however it is our first competitive game this seasom and our strikers are clearly not match fit and up to speed. I saw more than enough from the whole game that fills me with confidence going forward into the season.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, sadj said:

Looking at it , we need to take our chances as it may well come down to GD , I think County and Motherwell will hit 12 points so we need to get 11 and have a better GD than for instance Hibs. Not a guarantee of going through as a top seed but I would say its in our own hands. United was probably the toughest game anyone will have from a lower league team on paper as they have spent money to ensure they go up this year. 

 

All the negativeness should be put aside look at the positive , United are set up to be essentially a lower Premiership team at the moment and we did more with the ball than we have in a long time. Hopefully we build on it.

Indeed. We have 3 dollies coming up so healthy victories are required.

 

Mind you, some want Septic in the next round.

[Alex Kintner]

45 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Cuts both ways, bud. 

 

The Levein devotees are ridiculously blinkered. So much so, they can't see it. 

 

Poor performances and results are vigorously defended and explained away without even a hint of objectivity or concession that everything is not wonderful. 

 

They are also much swifter to resort to personal insults to discredit and belittle anyone who dares to disagree with them. 

 

That’s just not true. Can’t speak for others but I reached a point towards end of last season where I was edging towards wanting Levein gone. I also said just the other day that with his record Levein could easily have and possibly should have gone. I’ve read plenty of others who would be classed as “Levein devotees” being critical as well. 

 

The flip side is there are some people who refuse to give him a single iota of credit due to their hatred. They’ve been screaming for a change of style and approach and on Friday they got it. Two wingers, two strikers and an attacking midfielder who pressed the opposition and showed some good interplay. Still they came on here and refused to acknowledge that. One even tried to say Mulraney was anonymous! 🙈 They are quite rightly the laughing stock of the board.

 

15 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Only the top 4 group winners are seeded though. I think you need to read the context.

 

Understand what you’re saying now 👍🏻

[Vlad Magic]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

 

Cuts both ways, bud. 

 

The Levein devotees are ridiculously blinkered. So much so, they can't see it. 

 

Poor performances and results are vigorously defended and explained away without even a hint of objectivity or concession that everything is not wonderful. 

 

They are also much swifter to resort to personal insults to discredit and belittle anyone who dares to disagree with them. 

 

Evidence of this please?

[Prof]

1 hour ago, martoon said:

They are also much swifter to resort to personal insults to discredit and belittle anyone who dares to disagree with them. 

Couldn’t agree more. Any criticism of CL and how Hearts play seems to be taken as a personal insult by a good few. 

[Victorian]

Demented

[martoon]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

 

That is just not true , the amount of crap I get for being more objective than negative is pathetic look at last night for instance. Personal abuse is doled it far more often by those who just keep shouting louder and louder with the same spiel no matter what has happened in the game. 

 

Secondly - not one person thinks everything is wonderful but to not have seen positives on Friday night you have to have an unheathy negative spin on everything. 

 

Common sense on Friday said - Irving got himself in trouble but took one for the team after it but when he went off we lost our composure and started lumping it and it was poor. Berra and Zlamal both were badly at fault for the United goal. 

 

Washington , Walker , Mulraney and Clare were all over the place with movement and it really took United apart , United should of been down to 8/9 men before Irving was sent off. bouhemna should of been off in 3mins , def off second half , Sprole should of seen red , Connolly was given 2 get out of jails by Clancy. (Thats off top of my head) we created a lot of chances but a final ball was lacking in and around the box - no reason to believe that won’t come , Uche needs to lift his head , Clare was pinching balls off United midfielders and setting things up , Washington , Walker and Mulraney were driving with the ball and creating openings. Something we couldn’t do last season. On another day that would of been 5/6-1 we battered United but lacked that cutting edge , hopefully that is due to rustiness and the fact these are essentially competitive preseason games. No one is up to speed yet. I think there is goals all through our team now and there will be days we play like that and give a team a doing. Even the 4-1s last season weren’t doings but we took our chances. Balance looks better in the squad. Much as I love Djoum losing him may benefit us because he won’t be shoehorned in. We need to wise up defensively however and that may come when haring is back. Berra has to be on a shoogly peg however. 

 

 

Obviously wasn't referring to you, or indeed Friday's game, in particular but there are a few who just will not give an inch in their pro-Levein stance. Most of them are actually sound posters who I otherwise respect and often agree with but they do defend poor performances and results to the hilt. 

 

As I said, cuts both ways, though. There are some who will not give Levein any credit, no matter what, but not me. I am a critic and I don't believe CL will take us any further than he has the last two years but it's not personal. Huge fan of Craig as a player, hc first time around and the early days of his dof tenure but his removal can't come quick enough for me now.