Levein’s time is up...

[The Future's Maroon]

15 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

The Academy was ****ed when AB and CL came in absolutely ****ed. Its starting to pay dividends now and will continue to but as with all Academies there is hit and misses with it. 

 

Exactly, and the way folk from the club have been predicting in a few years our teams will be made up predominantly by guys from the academy. It just takes a little time and we had to start from scratch, which a lot of folk seem to forget, that is our future.

[Enzo Chiefo]

19 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

You need to make the top six first so clearly that is the initial target! We beat Motherwell and Livingston and matched Celtic for 45  mins of the semi final and final. We also romped the first 11 Premiership matches. Pesky facts getting in the way once again.

In Cup football, in any round, it's win or bust. In years to come, it will not be relevant or even remembered that we "matched Celtic for 45mins". I'm not quite sure we "romped " the first 11 Premiership matches. Not quite how I would describe a 0-0 home draw with Livvy but, anyway,  we had a good start if that's what you meant. The pesky facts, however, are that we finished 6th again.

[Mr Elwood P]

9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

In Cup football, in any round, it's win or bust. In years to come, it will not be relevant or even remembered that we "matched Celtic for 45mins". I'm not quite sure we "romped " the first 11 Premiership matches. Not quite how I would describe a 0-0 home draw with Livvy but, anyway,  we had a good start if that's what you meant. The pesky facts, however, are that we finished 6th again.

 

Should have won that game against Livingston! We shall see how we are sitting after 11 games or 22 games of this league campaign. Until then it’s just the same circular debate. I’m very optimistic about this campaign. I’m sure we can resume this debate once we’ve actually played some of the 2019/20 league matches.

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

 

 

 

You want glory and you want it NOW.

 

 

 

 

why not. have you something against a Hearts team that plays attractive , action filled , 

attacking football that gets our fans clambering to get to see the team they love.

[mitch41]

2 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Who were you blaming for not correctly setting the team up?

It wasn't just setting up the team it was too dimensional and predicable.

Levein said himself he leaves most of the work with the team to McPhee, 

and Daly ect. 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, mitch41 said:

It wasn't just setting up the team it was too dimensional and predicable.

Levein said himself he leaves most of the work with the team to McPhee, 

and Daly ect. 

 

What’s ‘too dimensional’? We created loads of chances but didn’t take them so I don’t think we were predictable at all. In fact quite the opposite. Walker and Washington are going to make a huge difference this season.

[OTT]

I'm all for giving him to Christmas, if we're heading for another 6th place finish, its time to move him on and make the necessary changes at first team level 3 seasons on the trot of essentially failure isn't on. 

 

His changes/ improvements to the academy structure have been fantastic, and its why we're seeing lads like Hickey, Irving, Cochrane, McDonald, Moore, Morrison, Brandon etc. coming through.

 

I would happily have him remain at the club back in the DOF capacity, because the youth grads appear to be of a higher standard than previous. Getting a manager/ head coach which see's eye to eye with him on footballing matters could be difficult with the budget we have, as my preference is not to go down the rookie route because we frankly deserve better than that. 

[mitch41]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

What’s ‘too dimensional’? We created loads of chances but didn’t take them so I don’t think we were predictable at all. In fact quite the opposite. Walker and Washington are going to make a huge difference this season.

Far to obvious and played into a poor teams game plan. We have got many very individual players but they way the team plays is 1980's. Teams you play against now do their homework and you have to just attack moving forward quickly and putting inferior players/teams on the back foot. press and close down teams that is what Hearts should all be about. Remember it's the Scottish leagues we play in not the EPL.

[...a bit disco]

"This thread is brought to you by Nurofen.

For your niggly, annoying headache relief."

[Mr Elwood P]

17 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Far to obvious and played into a poor teams game plan. We have got many very individual players but they way the team plays is 1980's. Teams you play against now do their homework and you have to just attack moving forward quickly and putting inferior players/teams on the back foot. press and close down teams that is what Hearts should all be about. Remember it's the Scottish leagues we play in not the EPL.

 

We didn’t play into their game plan. We dominated the match and created enough chances to win the game twice. We didn’t take those chances!

[Alex Kintner]

22 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Far to obvious and played into a poor teams game plan. We have got many very individual players but they way the team plays is 1980's. Teams you play against now do their homework and you have to just attack moving forward quickly and putting inferior players/teams on the back foot. press and close down teams that is what Hearts should all be about. Remember it's the Scottish leagues we play in not the EPL.

 

Piss off 😂😂😂

[Section Q]

27 minutes ago, OTT said:

I'm all for giving him to Christmas, if we're heading for another 6th place finish, its time to move him on and make the necessary changes at first team level 3 seasons on the trot of essentially failure isn't on. 

 

His changes/ improvements to the academy structure have been fantastic, and its why we're seeing lads like Hickey, Irving, Cochrane, McDonald, Moore, Morrison, Brandon etc. coming through.

 

I would happily have him remain at the club back in the DOF capacity, because the youth grads appear to be of a higher standard than previous. Getting a manager/ head coach which see's eye to eye with him on footballing matters could be difficult with the budget we have, as my preference is not to go down the rookie route because we frankly deserve better than that. 

If we make changes to the manager then I'd prefer an end of season appointment. It worked with Robbie. He had time to bring in his own players and prepared them with his own pre season training. Having said that I'm sure Levein will get a full season.

[innerjambo]

8 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

"This thread is brought to you by Nurofen.

For your niggly, annoying headache relief."

 

Who are you to say it should be Nurofen?? Paracetamol did pretty good for me last weekend. You don't speak for whole support btw................... Nurofen oot!!!

[Brighton Jambo]

Please please please could this thread be locked and not reopened again until 10 league games into the season when people can revisit, or not, their opinions.  

[...a bit disco]

Just now, innerjambo said:

 

Who are you to say it should be Nurofen?? Paracetamol did pretty good for me last weekend. You don't speak for whole support btw................... Nurofen oot!!!

 

Co-codamol ya bass!

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

Please please please could this thread be locked and not reopened again until 10 league games into the season when people can revisit, or not, their opinions.  

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Just now, Brighton Jambo said:

Please please please could this thread be locked and not reopened again until 10 league games into the season when people can revisit, or not, their opinions.  

You are taking it too seriously. 

 

Much better used as a barometer for football IQ

[mitch41]

26 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We didn’t play into their game plan. We dominated the match and created enough chances to win the game twice. We didn’t take those chances!

We didn't make enough chances never mind clear cut chances. And having the ball and playing it backwards and sideways too many times doesn't count for much in my book.

[Mr Elwood P]

11 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

We didn't make enough chances never mind clear cut chances. And having the ball and playing it backwards and sideways too many times doesn't count for much in my book.

 

Played far more forward passes than games towards the end of last season. If you can’t admit that then you clearly have an agenda. At least attempt to look at things objectively!

Edited July 13, 2019 by Mr Elwood P

[sadj]

1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

Far to obvious and played into a poor teams game plan. We have got many very individual players but they way the team plays is 1980's. Teams you play against now do their homework and you have to just attack moving forward quickly and putting inferior players/teams on the back foot. press and close down teams that is what Hearts should all be about. Remember it's the Scottish leagues we play in not the EPL.

Mitch I don’t mind you but jesus christ mate thats a day on the sauce type post.

[sadj]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Played far more forward passes than games towards the end of last season. If you can’t admit that then you clearly have an agenda. At least attempt to look at things objectively!

Spot on , more movement than easily the last 6months possibly all of last season between Walker , Clare , Mulraney and Washington

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

why not. have you something against a Hearts team that plays attractive , action filled , 

attacking football that gets our fans clambering to get to see the team they love.

If they love the team that much they'll  come and support the team anyway.

Thick and thin and all that.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

9 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Played far more forward passes than games towards the end of last season. If you can’t admit that then you clearly have an agenda. At least attempt to look at things objectively!

Played some nice stuff last night and against Inverness and still Haring, naismith , cochrane , keena , Morrison and smith to come in ! Very positive about season ahead 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Should have won that game against Livingston! We shall see how we are sitting after 11 games or 22 games of this league campaign. Until then it’s just the same circular debate. I’m very optimistic about this campaign. I’m sure we can resume this debate once we’ve actually played some of the 2019/20 league matches.

Yes, fair comment. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 hours ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Levein could or maybe even should have been sacked. Pointless going over it again and again now. We move on.

 

Your point about the academy is nonsense though. It took a huge hit under Romanov and we’re now seeing the benefits of the changes made four years ago. The technical ability of those breaking through now is superb.

Yes, I agree that the Academy took a huge hit financially under Romanov, however, it still produced players like Walker, Patterson, Nicholson, King etc who all got big moves. The infrastructure, the partnership with Heriot Watt, that's been in force for 15 years or so. We haven't started from scratch in that sense. We've made big improvements of course, along with more investment and, hopefully,  we will reap the benefit of that. Time will tell how good the players are. Baur, Cochrane  MacDonald, Moore, Morrison, Brandon, etc have all had first team involvement over the last couple of years but, whether or not they kick on, nobody knows. Hickey looks to be a very composed player and his big game experience at the end of last season will stand him in good stead. Other clubs have equally good Academies and prospects, Motherwell and Hamilton,  whose youngsters competed at European U17 level last season, for example. 

 

My point though, is that for all the good work Levein has done with the Academy, the job of first team manager is a different role and requires different skills. 

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, mitch41 said:

We didn't make enough chances never mind clear cut chances. And having the ball and playing it backwards and sideways too many times doesn't count for much in my book.

 

 

47 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, I agree that the Academy took a huge hit financially under Romanov, however, it still produced players like Walker, Patterson, Nicholson, King etc who all got big moves.

 

Big moves? Paterson yea but the rest? 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Quote

 

The infrastructure, the partnership with Heriot Watt, that's been in force for 15 years or so. We haven't started from scratch in that sense. We've made big improvements of course, along with more investment and, hopefully,  we will reap the benefit of that. Time will tell how good the players are. Baur, Cochrane  MacDonald, Moore, Morrison, Brandon, etc have all had first team involvement over the last couple of years but, whether or not they kick on, nobody knows. Hickey looks to be a very composed player and his big game experience at the end of last season will stand him in good stead. Other clubs have equally good Academies and prospects, Motherwell and Hamilton,  whose youngsters competed at European U17 level last season, for example. 

 

Agree with this in the most part but our current 17yos are the first of the Levein crop and they look very special indeed.

 

Quote

My point though, is that for all the good work Levein has done with the Academy, the job of first team manager is a different role and requires different skills. 

 

Can’t argue with that 👍🏻

Edited July 13, 2019 by To Be Frank

[Alex Kintner]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

15 shots at goal not enough for you? 

 

How many's a decent number? Your "book" Mitch, is more a colouring by numbers one. Rather than an encyclopedia of football knowledge.

 

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

15 shots at goal not enough for you? 

 

How many's a decent number? Your "book" Mitch, is more a colouring by numbers one. Rather than an encyclopedia of football knowledge.

You call them shots they were so weak they were like pass backs. You my friend are just kidding yourself on.

Edited July 13, 2019 by mitch41

[Alex Kintner]

3 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

You call them shots they were so weak they were like pass backs. You my friend are just kidding yourself on.

 

I find your rage extremely

 

.

Edited July 13, 2019 by To Be Frank

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Played far more forward passes than games towards the end of last season. If you can’t admit that then you clearly have an agenda. At least attempt to look at things objectively!

You my friend are also just kidding yourself on. The only agenda I gave is to see Hearts improve and with the amount of good players we have the product just isn't anywhere near good enough.

[McCrae]

57 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, I agree that the Academy took a huge hit financially under Romanov, however, it still produced players like Walker, Patterson, Nicholson, King etc who all got big moves. The infrastructure, the partnership with Heriot Watt, that's been in force for 15 years or so. We haven't started from scratch in that sense. We've made big improvements of course, along with more investment and, hopefully,  we will reap the benefit of that. Time will tell how good the players are. Baur, Cochrane  MacDonald, Moore, Morrison, Brandon, etc have all had first team involvement over the last couple of years but, whether or not they kick on, nobody knows. Hickey looks to be a very composed player and his big game experience at the end of last season will stand him in good stead. Other clubs have equally good Academies and prospects, Motherwell and Hamilton,  whose youngsters competed at European U17 level last season, for example. 

 

My point though, is that for all the good work Levein has done with the Academy, the job of first team manager is a different role and requires different skills. 

 

Patterson spent hardly anytime at the Academy. He was signed from Tynecastle Boys club when aged 17.

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, sadj said:

Mitch I don’t mind you but jesus christ mate thats a day on the sauce type post.

Last night after the game I was drowning my sorrows with my mates in the Merchie Hearts. Thank god for Belhaven Best.

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

If they love the team that much they'll  come and support the team anyway.

Thick and thin and all that.

Many will love the club that much it's too painful to watch Hearts underperforming.

[Alex Kintner]

8 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

Patterson spent hardly anytime at the Academy. He was signed from Tynecastle Boys club when aged 17.

 

Good point

[siegementality]

4 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

With my eyes.

Really. Well it would help to have a knowledge of football as well as a pair of eyes (I am presuming you can see with both).

 

Strikers miss chances for a whole host of reasons. When Washington is 100% firing on all cylinders he will still miss chances, every striker does. The really good strikers just miss less than the rest.

 

We’ll see how he is in the fullness of time. But the really good strikers can score goals, regardless.

[Alex Kintner]

6 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Last night after the game I was drowning my sorrows with my mates in the Merchie Hearts. Thank god for Belhaven Best.

 

Hope one of them gave you a sore jaw when you described our performance as slow and predictable.  That’s the sort of tough love true mates give 👍🏻

[mitch41]

9 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

I find your rage extremely

 

.

Rage ? Stop it you big drama queen. Cool Hand Luke, if I was in the dugout or dressing room and too many players were not at it you'd see rage. From Jim Jeffries to Walter Smith to Neil Lennon to Alex Ferguson to Davie Moyes to Jim McLean to Jurgen Klopp need I go on. Never accept a lowering of your standards. Too many people on here are just excuses.

[Mr Elwood P]

4 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Really. Well it would help to have a knowledge of football as well as a pair of eyes (I am presuming you can see with both).

 

Strikers miss chances for a whole host of reasons. When Washington is 100% firing on all cylinders he will still miss chances, every striker does. The really good strikers just miss less than the rest.

 

We’ll see how he is in the fullness of time. But the really good strikers can score goals, regardless.

 

Yes. I have two eyes. Match sharpness was the only thing missing last night.

[Mr Elwood P]

18 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

You my friend are also just kidding yourself on. The only agenda I gave is to see Hearts improve and with the amount of good players we have the product just isn't anywhere near good enough.

 

We have good players. We have a good squad. We played very well last night. Match sharpness means we missed a few chances. Very positive signs. 

 

16 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Last night after the game I was drowning my sorrows with my mates in the Merchie Hearts. Thank god for Belhaven Best.

 

What sorrows would need drowned? A win on pens was equivalent to a win in 90 mins given the group we’re placed within.

[Alex Kintner]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We have good players. We have a good squad. We played very well last night. Match sharpness means we missed a few chances. Very positive signs. 

 

 

What sorrows would need drowned? A win on pens was equivalent to a win in 90 mins given the group we’re placed within.

 

Sorrows that we didn’t lose 👍🏻

[sadj]

12 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Last night after the game I was drowning my sorrows with my mates in the Merchie Hearts. Thank god for Belhaven Best.

Drowning your sorrows? Considering these are essentially competitive preseason games last night was better than a lot of teams performances. Look at the results today of teams like Hibs and Hamilton. Whilst they are not a yardstick they struggled something we didn’t against a much better level of opposition. Last night was a more positive performance than anything from October onward last year. We need to step up from it for sure but there were a lot of positives last night against a team who should walk the Championship this season.  There is very little between lower Premiership and top 3/4 in the championship. We were without Haring and Naismith and thats prob two of our best players last year. Irving played quite well once he settled , Clare was pinching the ball off their players and getting in about. Mulraney , Walker , Washington were everywhere and their movement was good. Uche struggled but isn’t fit. Aside the last 10mins which was poor after Irving went off we never looked like playing it long and hoping. The play had structure it didn’t often last season even when we were winning. We looked like we had a plan and United couldn’t live with us. We need to convert chances but if we play like that each week we will give some teams an absolute doing. Not something you felt we could do last year even in good spells. 

[siegementality]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Yes. I have two eyes. Match sharpness was the only thing missing last night.

Really? Well this guy is going to have some strike rate when fully match fit, because according to your logic he will then score with every effort on goal he has. 

 

We are in for a real treat.

[Mr Elwood P]

3 minutes ago, siegementality said:

Really? Well this guy is going to have some strike rate when fully match fit, because according to your logic he will then score with every effort on goal he has. 

 

We are in for a real treat.

 

Can you read? 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

As much as I want Levein gone, the criticism of the academy production on here is laughable. He and Budge pretty much had to start from scratch 

[Alex Kintner]

13 minutes ago, Barack said:

You, my friend, drink too much.

 

Or not enough. Either way, needs sorted...pronto

[The Real Maroonblood]

49 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Last night after the game I was drowning my sorrows with my mates in the Merchie Hearts. Thank god for Belhaven Best.

Bellhaven Best.

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 hours ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Top 6 is the initial target. You need to be in the top 6 to then achieve a 3rd or 4th place finish. JJ was sacked under Romanov as was Burley, that’s two. The project is the squad that is being assembled plus the progression of academy players into first team players. Yes we clearly have a very good squad. A centre mid and a top keeper and we’d have an excellent squad, considering our budget.

 

Top 6 is the initial target to achieve 3rd or 4th? Do you think Aberdeen think like that?  What a negative outlook. That’s a bit like the English Premier teams just looking to finish 17th.  How about a more positive one - finish 3rd or 4th and that automatically assures top 6, rather than scrape 6th then have 5 meaningless games without a win.

 

Yes, you’re correct about Jeffries’ 2nd spell ending under Romanov, although obviously not his first one.

 

So, the “project” is basically what just about every other team is trying to do - build a squad and bring in some of the youngsters.  We have promising youngsters, as do other teams, but there’s no guarantee any of them will make it.

 

We finished 6th last season, where the “squad” was shown to be woefully inadequate (if you don’t agree with that then presumably you must blame the manager).  I don’t think the squad is any stronger this season so I think it’s nonsense to suggest it is “very good”.  If it was, bearing in mind we’re the 3rd biggest club, that would suggest a guaranteed top 3 finish, maybe even a chance at 2nd.  But we won’t finish top 3.

 

If we’re to have a much better season I think we’re relying on Naismith being fit most of the season and a couple of youngsters stepping up to the plate, as our non creative midfield from last season is looking even weaker this season, unless we sign someone else.

[Mr Elwood P]

47 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Top 6 is the initial target to achieve 3rd or 4th? Do you think Aberdeen think like that?  What a negative outlook. That’s a bit like the English Premier teams just looking to finish 17th.  How about a more positive one - finish 3rd or 4th and that automatically assures top 6, rather than scrape 6th then have 5 meaningless games without a win.

 

Yes, you’re correct about Jeffries’ 2nd spell ending under Romanov, although obviously not his first one.

 

So, the “project” is basically what just about every other team is trying to do - build a squad and bring in some of the youngsters.  We have promising youngsters, as do other teams, but there’s no guarantee any of them will make it.

 

We finished 6th last season, where the “squad” was shown to be woefully inadequate (if you don’t agree with that then presumably you must blame the manager).  I don’t think the squad is any stronger this season so I think it’s nonsense to suggest it is “very good”.  If it was, bearing in mind we’re the 3rd biggest club, that would suggest a guaranteed top 3 finish, maybe even a chance at 2nd.  But we won’t finish top 3.

 

If we’re to have a much better season I think we’re relying on Naismith being fit most of the season and a couple of youngsters stepping up to the plate, as our non creative midfield from last season is looking even weaker this season, unless we sign someone else.

 

Are we the third biggest club, currently? Aberdeen have the third biggest budget and third biggest list of honours. What are we third biggest at? Moaning, negative pricks on a football forum, we’re European champions!

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

Are we the third biggest club, currently? Aberdeen have the third biggest budget and third biggest list of honours. What are we third biggest at? Moaning, negative pricks on a football forum, we’re European champions!

 

So I’m a negative,  moaning prick? Think you’ll find personal abuse is against forum rules but knock yourself out if you must.  And of course, there’s no moaning on other football forums?

 

Depends how you define biggest club but we generally have the 3rd biggest support but of course, you know that.  Trophies?  I think we’re 4th and iirc maybe only 1 behind Aberdeen.  Budget wise, not much between us, Hibs and Aberdeen so we should be competing, yet Aberdeen find it easier to compete with Rangers, despite the huge gulf in their budget, than we do with Aberdeen.  Who would you define as the biggest club between Man City and Man Utd by the way?

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Top 6 is the initial target to achieve 3rd or 4th? Do you think Aberdeen think like that?  What a negative outlook. That’s a bit like the English Premier teams just looking to finish 17th.  How about a more positive one - finish 3rd or 4th and that automatically assures top 6, rather than scrape 6th then have 5 meaningless games without a win.

 

Yes, you’re correct about Jeffries’ 2nd spell ending under Romanov, although obviously not his first one.

 

So, the “project” is basically what just about every other team is trying to do - build a squad and bring in some of the youngsters.  We have promising youngsters, as do other teams, but there’s no guarantee any of them will make it.

 

We finished 6th last season, where the “squad” was shown to be woefully inadequate (if you don’t agree with that then presumably you must blame the manager).  I don’t think the squad is any stronger this season so I think it’s nonsense to suggest it is “very good”.  If it was, bearing in mind we’re the 3rd biggest club, that would suggest a guaranteed top 3 finish, maybe even a chance at 2nd.  But we won’t finish top 3.

 

If we’re to have a much better season I think we’re relying on Naismith being fit most of the season and a couple of youngsters stepping up to the plate, as our non creative midfield from last season is looking even weaker this season, unless we sign someone else.

Prior to 2014 we were the third biggest. Currently 4th based on turnover, revenue etc. Catching up fast with Aberdeen but if you want to base it on finance 4th is where we should finish. Regardless top 4 and cup runs/wins are what it’s all about. I expect both this season unless we draw OF away early in both cups.