Ian Murray - "This is our Story"

[Mikey1874]

Was an interesting read.

 

Quite a few unpopular people on here like Alan Preston and Brian McLaughlin are thanked for their support. Lots of fairly unknown people in the background who had key roles.

 

Also interesting that the governance arrangements were set early and didn't change. And carefully developed. 

[cheetah]

Mostly a good read but quite dry in places.

 

Budge and FOH are far too tight and FOH come across as a right bunch of egotistical pricks.

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I picked up on a couple of things. It's not 79.9% of shares that will be handed over to FOH. It is only 75.1%. He also refers to Halifax taking over Bank of Scotland.  It was actually a merger on a share for share basis in the two companies becoming shares in HBOS.

A lot of folk in Edinburgh would argue that Halifax took over BoS. 😄

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Steve_Jersey_HMFC said:

 

Cannot believe some people cancelled their FoH direct debits because of Ian Murray’s politics

 

Ian Murray didn't believe it at first. Mostly threatened to cancel unless he left. Thought it was Hibs fans. Then they checked and found they were all Hearts supporting pledgers. 

 

It is a sign of politics. SNP supporters probably not unique there. Not interested in a successful nation just winning. Ian Murray would have resigned anyway. But it is a sign of how things are here. 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

A lot of folk in Edinburgh would argue that Halifax took over BoS. 😄

 

Whatever the legal technicalities Halifax took over Bank of Scotland. 

[132goals1958]

17 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

A lot of folk in Edinburgh would argue that Halifax took over BoS. 😄

 

Correct.-- In reality there is very rarely a merger of equals and it was James Crosby of the Halifax who took over the mantle of Chief Executive of the enlarged group 

[Footballfirst]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

A lot of folk in Edinburgh would argue that Halifax took over BoS. 😄

 

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Whatever the legal technicalities Halifax took over Bank of Scotland. 

Given that I worked for BOS and was a shareholder in both at the time. I know what happened, both legally and practically.

 

There was little love shared between the respective work forces who both thought they had the worst of the deal. In my office the Halifax staff were referred to as the "Haliban" 😈 

 

In 2006 Halfax actually transferred its undertakings to BOS plc and used the BOS Banking Licence.

[Coburg Hearts]

13 hours ago, 8skacel8 said:

Take the political chat elsewhere. This thread is about the book.

This. Some people just can't help themselves.

[Francis Albert]

55 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Was an interesting read.

 

Quite a few unpopular people on here like Alan Preston and Brian McLaughlin are thanked for their support. Lots of fairly unknown people in the background who had key roles.

 

Also interesting that the governance arrangements were set early and didn't change. And carefully developed. 

I didn't get the "carefully developed" bit. They were written by FoH "founding members" and despite a very half hearted "consultation" with the wider membership as you say they were largely set in stone by them. (Murray admits to not being particularly interested in governance … or at least finding it boring).

 

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

 

Given that I worked for BOS and was a shareholder in both at the time. I know what happened, both legally and practically.

 

There was little love shared between the respective work forces who both thought they had the worst of the deal. In my office the Halifax staff were referred to as the "Haliban" 😈 

 

In 2006 Halfax actually transferred its undertakings to BOS plc and used the BOS Banking Licence.

They did indeed. I managed that project in HBOS Corporate IT. I still have a framed fiver I was given on completion.  😎

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

I didn't get the "carefully developed" bit. They were written by FoH "founding members" and despite a very half hearted "consultation" with the wider membership as you say they were largely set in stone by them. (Murray admits to not being particularly interested in governance … or at least finding it boring).

 

He’s clearly not alone in that view. 

[Bazzas right boot]

15 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

No such thing as a good SNP mp... 

 

Correct. 

They start from very good 😂👍

[Steve_Jersey_HMFC]

4 hours ago, Natural Orders said:

What facts were not correct?

a few here and there. I’ve lent the book to my Dad so can’t check back but it was a couple bits like dates, saying we nearly got another trip to Hampden for the League cup in 2014 when we lost to 9 man ICT (Hampden was shit and the final was at Celtic Park), and also the bit about the Driver transfer in 2009, at the end it said something about Jim Jeffries not being happy but it was Csaba who was manager at the time.

 

for the record Im not criticising Murray, not only was what he did phenomenal but putting the book together was too! 

[Glamorgan Jambo]

If you look on the BBC Parliament Channel (probably on iplayer now) there's a show where he discussed the book that I stumbled over during the holidays.

 

Would be very happy for Ian Murray to come back to the club one day.

[Thomaso]

5 hours ago, whyskey said:

leave him alone, he is a sad british nationalist

 Nope I’m a happy British nationalist! 

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

 Nope I’m a happy British nationalist! 

Even when watching Hearts? 😳

[Independence]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Ian Murray didn't believe it at first. Mostly threatened to cancel unless he left. Thought it was Hibs fans. Then they checked and found they were all Hearts supporting pledgers. 

 

It is a sign of politics. SNP supporters probably not unique there. Not interested in a successful nation just winning. Ian Murray would have resigned anyway. But it is a sign of how things are here. 

Why SNP. I thought Labour wanted to deselect Ian. I have certainly not cancelled my contributions to FOH and if they are real SNP supporters their intent will be for the best of our nation and nothing to do with Hearts. However, I can see if that someone has an agenda they could use this against the SNP!

[indianajones]

FFS.

 

Politics and football are very, very different things. 

 

 

[Thomaso]

22 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Even when watching Hearts? 😳

Politics don’t cross my mind when watching Hearts.

[davemclaren]

2 minutes ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

Politics don’t cross my mind when watching Hearts.

👍

[TyphoonJambo]

56 minutes ago, indianajones said:

FFS.

 

Politics and football are very, very different things. 

 

 

Unfortunately not the case here in Spain

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Independence said:

Why SNP. I thought Labour wanted to deselect Ian. I have certainly not cancelled my contributions to FOH and if they are real SNP supporters their intent will be for the best of our nation and nothing to do with Hearts. However, I can see if that someone has an agenda they could use this against the SNP!

 

Real thing that happened. SNP or independence supporters demanding he left Hearts board as FoH representative or they would stop their pledges. 

 

It's in the book. 

[Independence]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Real thing that happened. SNP or independence supporters demanding he left Hearts board as FoH representative or they would stop their pledges. 

 

It's in the book. 

Okay. Sad. But it would be the same or worse the other way round. 

[Big Slim Stylee]

21 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

No such thing as a good SNP mp... 

 

Is the correct answer😀

[Jambo-Fox]

4 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Real thing that happened. SNP or independence supporters demanding he left Hearts board as FoH representative or they would stop their pledges. 

 

It's in the book. 

If this is true ..... are the FoH politically driven?? I certainly hope not ... can’t see how they could carry on if they were politically driven. I hope not, please tell me this is not true!

[Pans Jambo]

11 hours ago, cheetah said:

Mostly a good read but quite dry in places.

 

Budge and FOH are far too tight and FOH come across as a right bunch of egotistical pricks.

Ah FFS! Just ordered a copy on Amazon.

[davemclaren]

57 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

If this is true ..... are the FoH politically driven?? I certainly hope not ... can’t see how they could carry on if they were politically driven. I hope not, please tell me this is not true!

No 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Independence said:

Okay. Sad. But it would be the same or worse the other way round. 

What does other the way round mean? Did Tory or LibDem supporters make similar threats as a result of Murray's involvement with FOH. I doubt it.

Would Hearts fans if Murray had been SNP? Again I doubt it.

SNP supporters include a lot of narrow minded and obsessive people as far as I can see.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Jambo-Fox]

39 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

No 

👍 I’m pleased - no place for politics in football 👍 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Fox said:

If this is true ..... are the FoH politically driven?? I certainly hope not ... can’t see how they could carry on if they were politically driven. I hope not, please tell me this is not true!

[HMFC 86]

On 03/01/2020 at 23:27, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

No such thing as a good SNP mp... 

 

Agreed

[HMFC 86]

On 03/01/2020 at 23:30, Noah Claypole said:

 

About as rare as a decent post from you. 

Never a good post from you. Continual rubbish

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Real thing that happened. SNP or independence supporters demanding he left Hearts board as FoH representative or they would stop their pledges. 

 

It's in the book. 

 

It is in the book but revealingly there's no actual number given, despite the fact he states that they cross-referenced the letters received asking for his resignation with FoH records to identify that they were FoH pledgers. So it should be easy to provide a number, but he chooses not to so the reader is left to wonder is it 2, 5, 100, 500... Classic politician behaviour basically and smacked of political point-scoring at the end of his book.

Edited January 5, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 03/01/2020 at 15:27, Cruickshank for Scotland said:

No such thing as a good SNP mp... 

 

Apart from another political Jambo Alex Salmond obviously, who intervened at the last minute to help get the takeover deal across the line. Something Ian "forgot" to include in his retelling of the dramatic final days of the takeover, unless I missed a mention of that earlier in the book. Surely he didn't "forget" for political reasons...! Seriously, thanks for all the hard work Ian. Always makes me laugh (as a Labour voter for many years before they became terrible) that you represent the new Scottish Labour heartlands of.... Morningside 🤣 I'm sure they're all voting for you for worker rights, nationalisation, public sector pay rises, second homes tax, etc... nothing to do with flags at all. Blooming nationalists.

Edited January 5, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 03/01/2020 at 12:20, Hot since 86 said:

You should be even more in disagreement with him then. 

 

Hes is everything that is wrong with modern day labour, a centrist MP passing himself off as a man of the people.

 

My favourite part of Murray being Scotland's only Labour MP is that that makes Edinburgh South Scotland's Labour stronghold. The whole idea of probably Edinburgh's richest area - with I assume the highest concentration of wealth and pubic school pupils - voting for more the most left-wing leader Labour have had for ages plus nationalisation, an increase in inheritance tax, a second homes tax and VAT on public school fees. It's mental and hilarious at the same time. OK, they voted for New Labour for ages but who knew Edinburgh South was such a hotbed of socialist ideals. Murray relies on "nationalists" for his seat just as much as any SNP MP.

Edited January 5, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[leginten]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

pubic school pupils

 

[Thomaso]

4 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Apart from another political Jambo Alex Salmond obviously, who intervened at the last minute to help get the takeover deal across the line. Something Ian "forgot" to include in his retelling of the dramatic final days of the takeover, unless I missed a mention of that earlier in the book. Surely he didn't "forget" for political reasons...! Seriously, thanks for all the hard work Ian. Always makes me laugh (as a Labour voter for many years before they became terrible) that you represent the new Scottish Labour heartlands of.... Morningside 🤣 I'm sure they're all voting for you for worker rights, nationalisation, public sector pay rises, second homes tax, etc... nothing to do with flags at all. Blooming nationalists.

Alex Salmond. 🙈

[Footballfirst]

Rather than dwell on IM's Labour credentials, the book actually references cross party support for the club during the administration with Alastair Darling, David McLetchie, Tavish Scott and Alex Salmond all supporting the club's cause.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

Rather than dwell on IM's Labour credentials, the book actually references cross party support for the club during the administration with Alastair Darling, David McLetchie, Tavish Scott and Alex Salmond all supporting the club's cause.

Good point.

[Francis Albert]

6 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

My favourite part of Murray being Scotland's only Labour MP is that that makes Edinburgh South Scotland's Labour stronghold. The whole idea of probably Edinburgh's richest area - with I assume the highest concentration of wealth and pubic school pupils - voting for more the most left-wing leader Labour have had for ages plus nationalisation, an increase in inheritance tax, a second homes tax and VAT on public school fees. It's mental and hilarious at the same time. OK, they voted for New Labour for ages but who knew Edinburgh South was such a hotbed of socialist ideals. Murray relies on "nationalists" for his seat just as much as any SNP MP.

 

Islington contains more millionaires per head and far more houses in the multi-million pound bracket than Edinburgh Pentland, contains areas that make Morningside look positively deprived, and returns two Labour MPs with thumping majorities. Edinburgh Pentland is not just Morningside and similar "wealthy" enclaves.

Not clear what your last sentence means.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Francis Albert

[N Lincs Jambo]

4 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Rather than dwell on IM's Labour credentials, the book actually references cross party support for the club during the administration with Alastair Darling, David McLetchie, Tavish Scott and Alex Salmond all supporting the club's cause.

Correct FF. He also referenced John Swinney. Made the point that he and JS disagree on many things politically but that JS is a Jambo through and through. 

[Independence]

17 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

What does other the way round mean? Did Tory or LibDem supporters make similar threats as a result of Murray's involvement with FOH. I doubt it.

Would Hearts fans if Murray had been SNP? Again I doubt it.

SNP supporters include a lot of narrow minded and obsessive people as far as I can see.

Aye right. I will not rise to your own simple agenda!

[assessor]

On 04/01/2020 at 16:18, Glamorgan Jambo said:

If you look on the BBC Parliament Channel (probably on iplayer now) there's a show where he discussed the book that I stumbled over during the holidays.

 

Would be very happy for Ian Murray to come back to the club one day.

 Yes, came across this as well, 15 minute chat on the book. Worth checking out.. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 05/01/2020 at 05:58, Francis Albert said:

 

Islington contains more millionaires per head and far more houses in the multi-million pound bracket than Edinburgh Pentland, contains areas that make Morningside look positively deprived, and returns two Labour MPs with thumping majorities. Edinburgh Pentland is not just Morningside and similar "wealthy" enclaves.

Not clear what your last sentence means.

 

Murray relies on the anti-independence, or to put it another way, British nationalist vote. There's no other explanation for why in an area that voted Remain by some distance in the EU referendum, a majority would then vote for a Brexit supporting party in the general election. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

On 05/01/2020 at 07:18, N Lincs Jambo said:

Correct FF. He also referenced John Swinney. Made the point that he and JS disagree on many things politically but that JS is a Jambo through and through. 

 

He doesn't mention Alex Salmond's last minute intervention, which was heavily covered in the press at the time, unless I missed it. It's a really interesting book for any Hearts fan. But it was Murray who chose to indulge in a bit of political point scoring at the end of the book, and in very vague way as mentioned before. There's no reason not to state how many people threatened to cancel their pledges unless it's actually a very small number.

Edited January 7, 2020 by ToqueJambo

[Footballfirst]

11 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

He doesn't mention Alex Salmond's last minute intervention, which was heavily covered in the press at the time, unless I missed it. It's a really interesting book for any Hearts fan. But it was Murray who chose to indulge in a bit of political point scoring at the end of the book, and in very vague way as mentioned before. There's no reason not to state how many people threatened to cancel their pledges unless it's actually a very small number.

I suspect that it was a very small number. 

 

It's probably much like reading that lots of folk on JKB had or were going to cancel their pledges over the last couple of years. The reality was that the amount pledged to FOH (per the last accounts) in 2018/19 was only 1.7% down on the previous year.  The net effect of that would only be about £2,000 a month less going to the club or paying off the Bidco loan.

 

Even if pledges were down by 10% on the peak £125,000 a month (up to June 2017), the club would still be getting £112,500 a month, which is still an incredible amount. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

I suspect that it was a very small number. 

 

It's probably much like reading that lots of folk on JKB had or were going to cancel their pledges over the last couple of years. The reality was that the amount pledged to FOH (per the last accounts) in 2018/19 was only 1.7% down on the previous year.  The net effect of that would only be about £2,000 a month less going to the club or paying off the Bidco loan.

 

Even if pledges were down by 10% on the peak £125,000 a month (up to June 2017), the club would still be getting £112,500 a month, which is still an incredible amount. 

 

Yep, so he really didn't have to bring it up. I'm a supporter of independence and can't stand the current Labour Party and Ian Murray for me represents everything that is wrong with it (he's a Blairite who campaigned with Tories for Better Together), but he was just a Jambo when it came to FoH. I'd be interested to know how many fans definitely threatened to cancel as it's such an extreme stance it has to be a very small number. The Better Together campaign by the way was well known for using tactics like this (vague accusations) to demonise Yes supporters, but never with any firm evidence to back it up. 

[eyesandears]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yep, so he really didn't have to bring it up. I'm a supporter of independence and can't stand the current Labour Party and Ian Murray for me represents everything that is wrong with it (he's a Blairite who campaigned with Tories for Better Together), but he was just a Jambo when it came to FoH. I'd be interested to know how many fans definitely threatened to cancel as it's such an extreme stance it has to be a very small number. The Better Together campaign by the way was well known for using tactics like this (vague accusations) to demonise Yes supporters, but never with any firm evidence to back it up. 

demonise Yes supporters  take this crap to The Shed please.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

15 minutes ago, eyesandears said:

demonise Yes supporters  take this crap to The Shed please.

 

That was a major tactic with the media fully signed up. Still is but less so as more and more public figures openly switch to supporting independence/indyref#2, and some journalists even seem to be softening.

[Meadows]

Sounds very Celtic / Victims all this demonising Yes supporters .

FWIW , I enjoyed the book and politics never crossed my mind whilst reading it .