Ann Budge Statement today ( edited )

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, leginten said:

 

You mean you were still defending Levein before Motherwell? I hope not. Says it all about your judgement if so.

 

Once again, you are claiming omniscience in your opinion about who the comments were aimed at. A lot of people on here whose ability to interpret a text I would trust a lot more than I do yours are not in agreement. They think Budge was using the statement to lash out at considerably more than one person. (You didn’t address the point about whether a statement to the fans at a time of crisis should be used to pursue a petty spat with Michael Stewart, but I guess there’s a reason for that.)

 

I’m not sure if there are people on Kickback who have agitated against every manager we’ve had. I do, though, frequently take notice of a particularly juvenile group of posters who are perpetually in need of a party line to toe, even when that line is obviously wrong. 

 

There’ll be another one along shortly.

[Spellczech]

3 minutes ago, BervieJambo said:

The statement has backfired somewhat as it has caused even more division amongst the fans.

The 'genuine fans' comment was clearly a jibe at a section of people. I interpret it as those who have been attacking her for a length of time - those who have been singing the "in the wrong hands" song for the last 3 years, those who continue with the sectarian & racist crap, those who think pyrotechnics are clever. She is never going to appease these guys. I also saw it as a slight at the so-called Hearts fans in the media... Michael Stewart... who are quick to have a go at what is happening at the club.

To my mind, Ann Budge has done an excellent job at the club over the past few years. To ensure we never get into the mess that we were in before she saved us, we need to make ourselves more family friendly and find other sources of finance. Some things may not be popular with certain sections, but that does not mean it is not the right thing to do. Some things may appear to be at the detriment of the first team, especially when we are going through a sustained bad patch - for example, money could maybe be spent on better male players than investing in the women's team (I don't agee, but I've seen some on hear stating that).

I'm quite sure Budge and Levein would have got together over the summer and planned ahead for the coming season. This puts a line under everything that went before, hence the lack of reference to the earlier half of 2019. We are only 5 league games in, but the position we find ourselves in is unacceptable - I'm pretty sure she recognises that. However, we are still in the League Cup - however unconvincing the performances - and we have a number of new players settling in and a number to come back from injury. I understand exactly why she would be reluctant to ditch all the plans made so early on. She clearly believes that what Levein is doing is right, especially with the Academy and the playing infrastructure and that the only problem is the most visible and important one - the results of the first team. Personally, I am inclined to agree on that.

The only dispute then is whether Levein can turn the corner with the first team results - she believes he can, most of us fans, at best, have doubts and many are past any sort of faith in him whatsoever. Whether it's a sign of strength that she won't bow to fan pressure because she believes in him or a stubborn mistake, time will only tell. I expect that plans are being made in the background as to what could happen next should we continue to fail on the pitch. A handful of good results and we may never hear of them - lose against Hibs and Aberdeen and I suspect a lot more will be said in the next 2 weeks.

Meanwhile, it's important we get behind the team and support them. Protests should be kept until after matches - these things will only have a negative effect on the players on the pitch and is likely to prolong our suffering. Whether Levein is at the club or not, Heart of Midlothian is most important and they need our support through thick and thin.

Good post - You may be right that she would exclude the pyro neds, the ones who seek to embarrass the club at every turn, from being genuine fans. They do seem to annoy her. However, I think in this instance where the 2 sides of the statement are first the fans and then the media, I think it is more aimed at "fans within the media"...

[annushorribilis III]

39 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

All she has done is make a statement( like many on here DEMANDED!), in the last few weeks some Hearts fans have

 

been banned for being racist

tweeted they hope the stand fall downs

wrote Graffiti  all about town.

 

This on top of all the granny stuff, the shagging pics of her and cl, ect that goes about on line.

 

Do you think it was a dig at these sorts or fans that are genuinely frustrated and act in a normal, human way?

If you taken offence to that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

In terms of backing CL you can disagree or agree, fair enough but again if all you ever want to hear from the club is that he is sacked then ofc you will be disappointed with anything other than that- again, fair enough but she's allowed to show character and strength by backing her horse, you are allowed to disagree but to take the genuine fans statement personally says more about your mental state, feelings  and train of thought than hers.

 

 

How can you nullify the work she has done?

Aye, by backing CL the new stand, infrastructure and saving us from certain Liquidation doesn't count anymore.... Really?

Absolute nonsense.

 

Just because she doesn't bow to the mob and do what many fans want , doesn't mean she doesn't care, it means as CEO she has a far bigger remit and duty of care and can't act out in frustration or anger. FFS, people taking things far to personal and  It's getting embarrassing, just as embarrassing as our run tbh.

 

 

 

People ned to admit all they want to hear ic CL is sacked and that everything else we do ( even winning, apparently) is irrelevant and in some cases will get folk angry.

 

They don't want statements, action, our results to improve they want him gone imo partly ( or maybe wholly) to prove they were right all along and can strut about Gorgie with their chest puffed out say " I told ya so".

Folk won't admit it, they say it's about results but it's clearly not for some. Some have been rabid for 12 months plus and can taste victory but Ann is denying them that and they are getting angry, very angry.

 

 

Given that Levein hasn't produced anything remotely acceptable in the last 30 games - bearing in mind the bulk of games recently have been against largely "inferior" opposition - there hasn't been any "results" to support this assertion. 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by annushorribilis III

[Jambo-Fox]

12 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Michael Stewart a Hearts fan?

Genuine???

[wavydavy]

33 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

All she has done is make a statement( like many on here DEMANDED!), in the last few weeks some Hearts fans have

 

been banned for being racist

tweeted they hope the stand fall downs

wrote Graffiti  all about town.

 

This on top of all the granny stuff, the shagging pics of her and cl, ect that goes about on line.

 

Do you think it was a dig at these sorts or fans that are genuinely frustrated and act in a normal, human way?

If you taken offence to that, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

In terms of backing CL you can disagree or agree, fair enough but again if all you ever want to hear from the club is that he is sacked then ofc you will be disappointed with anything other than that- again, fair enough but she's allowed to show character and strength by backing her horse, you are allowed to disagree but to take the genuine fans statement personally says more about your mental state, feelings  and train of thought than hers.

 

 

How can you nullify the work she has done?

Aye, by backing CL the new stand, infrastructure and saving us from certain Liquidation doesn't count anymore.... Really?

Absolute nonsense.

 

Just because she doesn't bow to the mob and do what many fans want , doesn't mean she doesn't care, it means as CEO she has a far bigger remit and duty of care and can't act out in frustration or anger. FFS, people taking things far to personal and  It's getting embarrassing, just as embarrassing as our run tbh.

 

 

 

People ned to admit all they want to hear ic CL is sacked and that everything else we do ( even winning, apparently) is irrelevant and in some cases will get folk angry.

 

They don't want statements, action, our results to improve they want him gone imo partly ( or maybe wholly) to prove they were right all along and can strut about Gorgie with their chest puffed out say " I told ya so".

Folk won't admit it, they say it's about results but it's clearly not for some. Some have been rabid for 12 months plus and can taste victory but Ann is denying them that and they are getting angry, very angry.

 

 

 

As Hearts fans we all want the club to be successful that's not in doubt. The fact that she has laboured and defended CL so much and been taken in by his excuses is verging on incredible and she just rubs salt in the wounds of those who have in the main supprted her over her tenure at the club.

 

I and many others are indebted to her for taking on the massive task she did when she could have been enjoyng a well earned retirement.

 

All that good work is being undermined by her stubborness by sticking by CL and using ho0s very own excuses to justify her stance.

 

There is no room for abuse of any sort for her or CL and I personally have never made any secret of the fact that I would prefer we did not have CL as our Head Coach/ DOF/Board Member but I have never abused either and that applies to the majority of like minded Hearts Fans.

 

As ever this is a minority that people jump on to use as an excuse to justify their arguments.

 

I really hope that we get the footballing side back on track and the sooner the better however I still don't think that will happen under CL but time will tell and AB is certainly giving him plenty of that.

[Spellczech]

16 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

You mean you were still defending Levein before Motherwell? I hope not. Says it all about your judgement if so.

 

Once again, you are claiming omniscience in your opinion about who the comments were aimed at. A lot of people on here whose ability to interpret a text I would trust a lot more than I do yours are not in agreement. They think Budge was using the statement to lash out at considerably more than one person. (You didn’t address the point about whether a statement to the fans at a time of crisis should be used to pursue a petty spat with Michael Stewart, but I guess there’s a reason for that.)

 

I’m not sure if there are people on Kickback who have agitated against every manager we’ve had. I do, though, frequently take notice of a particularly juvenile group of posters who are perpetually in need of a party line to toe, even when that line is obviously wrong. 

 

There’ll be another one along shortly.

I've consistently said that things have to improve for the Hibs and particularly Aberdeen games. However, I have no influence at the club. My opinion is just words on an internet MB. I try to interpret things that are happening in football, particularly at Hearts, but I'm an outsider, not in the least bit "in the know". I do have a strong business background so I can perhaps understand and interpret owners' motives better than some on here, but I'm not a footballer and have never been in that bubble...

 

Levein failed to have the team ready for the start of the season. We were not good for most of last season. There are only so many times you can blame injuries before you have to look at medical teams, pitches, signing policies and management... I suspect Levein's position may be untenable even before the Hibs and Aberdeen games but I don't have a particular problem with Budge holding in there if she thinks it right.

 

I thought I made it clear with the 2 JPEGs that the statement was timed exactly in response to Stewart's BBC article...Perhaps I should couch every sentence I write with "IMO", but is it really necessary for me to do that for you?

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Spellczech

[Haken]

40 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

You haven’t any more clue than the rest of us who she was aiming at, so the pretence that you do is absurd.

 

If, however, she was doing as you suggest and using a statement on the club’s website to pursue a spat with a single media figure at a time of crisis on the pitch when she should have been devoting her full attention to how she is going to improve things, that in itself is evidence that she has lost the plot. She should leave the petty name-calling to Levein.

'A single media' figure who has a platform to preach his message on BBC TV and Radio.  I think MS is the main target, though it might also include Gary McKay and perhaps even Alan Presto (another BBC Scotland employee).  While not a huge fan of the 'journalism' presented by any of these ex-players, they do all appear to have some sort of dislike of Levein, which does kind of point towards Levein being a divisive figure.  

 

The question I then ask myself is what is the counter-narrative to these people who don't appear to like Levein?  There doesn't appear to be one in the media. though it would be hard to do that against a backdrop of poor results spanning longer than 5 games.  But there are players like Berra and Naismith, who I wonder would they be at the club now had it not been for Levein (I genuinely don't know if Levein has been influential in their decisions or not).  

 

You can bet what you like though that certain people will be absolutely loving the level of infighting that has ensued.

[annushorribilis III]

4 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

As Hearts fans we all want the club to be successful that's not in doubt. The fact that she has laboured and defended CL so much and been taken in by his excuses is verging on incredible and she just rubs salt in the wounds of those who have in the main supprted her over her tenure at the club.

 

I and many others are indebted to her for taking on the massive task she did when she could have been enjoyng a well earned retirement.

 

All that good work is being undermined by her stubborness by sticking by CL and using ho0s very own excuses to justify her stance.

 

There is no room for abuse of any sort for her or CL and I personally have never made any secret of the fact that I would prefer we did not have CL as our Head Coach/ DOF/Board Member but I have never abused either and that applies to the majority of like minded Hearts Fans.

 

As ever this is a minority that people jump on to use as an excuse to justify their arguments.

 

I really hope that we get the footballing side back on track and the sooner the better however I still don't think that will happen under CL but time will tell and AB is certainly giving him plenty of that.

Well said. 

[ford donald]

39 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I've just said - To exclude Michael Stewart, who paints himself as a fan who works in the media...She is putting him firmly in the second part. He is the only person whom she regards as less than genuine - because he is paid, and has personal reasons for attacking Levein.

So Preston and Mackay are in the media are they real or genuine fans? They attack CL as well,rightly so in my book,they care about Hearts.

[Spellczech]

2 minutes ago, ford donald said:

So Preston and Mackay are in the media are they real or genuine fans? They attack CL as well,rightly so in my book,they care about Hearts.

There were 2 JPEGS in my post - the purpose was to illustrate my opinion that the dates show Budge's statement to be a response to Stewart's article...

[Taffin]

"Must beat Hibs and Aberdeen" will become "must beat St Mirren and Kilmarnock". Guaranteed. 

[leginten]

3 minutes ago, Haken said:

'A single media' figure who has a platform to preach his message on BBC TV and Radio.  I think MS is the main target, though it might also include Gary McKay and perhaps even Alan Presto (another BBC Scotland employee).  While not a huge fan of the 'journalism' presented by any of these ex-players, they do all appear to have some sort of dislike of Levein, which does kind of point towards Levein being a divisive figure.  

 

The question I then ask myself is what is the counter-narrative to these people who don't appear to like Levein?  There doesn't appear to be one in the media. though it would be hard to do that against a backdrop of poor results spanning longer than 5 games.  But there are players like Berra and Naismith, who I wonder would they be at the club now had it not been for Levein (I genuinely don't know if Levein has been influential in their decisions or not).  

 

You can bet what you like though that certain people will be absolutely loving the level of infighting that has ensued.

 

I take all of your points.

 

There is one sure-fire way for the in-fighting to cease, and that is for Hearts to start winning football matches. Our form since Murrayfield has been nothing short of a disgrace. The fact that there are still people getting wound up about criticism of the worst-equal winless league run in our history tells you a lot. We are actually far too meek, accepting and tolerant. The club deserves infinitely more criticism from both media and supporters than it has actually had.

[Big Slim Stylee]

I’m wondering if it would be possible to set up a sub-forum for those on here like myself who don’t feel “alienated”, are not “at war with the club”, are sick of the mind-numbingly stupid internet foaming on here and, instead are just disappointed in how poor we are just now, and can’t see a way CL can turn this around?

[Beast Boy]

What some folk are ignoring when they fixate on the first team and get annoyed about people rightly pointing out that the off field progress is so encouraging, is that the off field stuff is vital in securing long term prosperity.

 

I get it, everyone gets it; the first team is toiling. Every single supporter can see this. Of course first team results matter. The first team is after-all the one thing we all turn up to watch. This idea that nothing else matters however... ridiculous attitude. The irony being that it’s often the same people who come out with that patter, who also object to any arseholes in our support being called arseholes. Can’t criticise the fanz. 🙄

 

“Without the fanz there is no club” - obviously. Thankfully the arseholes and alt-fanz are not the majority, so in losing them and their carry on, we are not risking the future of the club.

 

“First team is all that matters” - Really? So we go back to running the club like a teenager who blows his monthly wage in one weekend and then toils for the rest of the time, accruing debts he can’t service, and we go bust? Why not... we will still have a first team to follow won’t we? It will still be Heart of Midlothian even if we are playing in public parks in the East of Scotland League. Sounds wonderful.

 

The fact is, the continued existence and prosperity of the club trumps everything else - including short term first team results. The stability and prosperity of the club is dependent on the “off field” stuff that gets dismissed so readily by many, when it is mentioned as a positive thing. The prosperity of the first team is long term absolutely dependent on the strength of the off field operation.

[JimKongUno]

1 minute ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

What some folk are ignoring when they fixate on the first team and get annoyed about people rightly pointing out that the off field progress is so encouraging, is that the off field stuff is vital in securing long term prosperity.

 

I get it, everyone gets it; the first team is toiling. Every single supporter can see this. Of course first team results matter. The first team is after-all the one thing we all turn up to watch. This idea that nothing else matters however... ridiculous attitude. The irony being that it’s often the same people who come out with that patter, who also object to any arseholes in our support being called arseholes. Can’t criticise the fanz. 🙄

 

“Without the fanz there is no club” - obviously. Thankfully the arseholes and alt-fanz are not the majority, so in losing them and their carry on, we are not risking the future of the club.

 

“First team is all that matters” - Really? So we go back to running the club like a teenager who blows his monthly wage in one weekend and then toils for the rest of the time, accruing debts he can’t service, and we go bust? Why not... we will still have a first team to follow won’t we? It will still be Heart of Midlothian even if we are playing in public parks in the East of Scotland League. Sounds wonderful.

 

The fact is, the continued existence and prosperity of the club trumps everything else - including short term first team results. The stability and prosperity of the club is dependent on the “off field” stuff that gets dismissed so readily by many, when it is mentioned as a positive thing. The prosperity of the first team is long term absolutely dependent on the strength of the off field operation.

 

were currently spending more on the first team than anyone bar Celtic , Rangers and Aberdeen . were bottom the league

[Deevers]

39 minutes ago, BervieJambo said:

The statement has backfired somewhat as it has caused even more division amongst the fans.

The 'genuine fans' comment was clearly a jibe at a section of people. I interpret it as those who have been attacking her for a length of time - those who have been singing the "in the wrong hands" song for the last 3 years, those who continue with the sectarian & racist crap, those who think pyrotechnics are clever. She is never going to appease these guys. I also saw it as a slight at the so-called Hearts fans in the media... Michael Stewart... who are quick to have a go at what is happening at the club.

To my mind, Ann Budge has done an excellent job at the club over the past few years. To ensure we never get into the mess that we were in before she saved us, we need to make ourselves more family friendly and find other sources of finance. Some things may not be popular with certain sections, but that does not mean it is not the right thing to do. Some things may appear to be at the detriment of the first team, especially when we are going through a sustained bad patch - for example, money could maybe be spent on better male players than investing in the women's team (I don't agee, but I've seen some on hear stating that).

I'm quite sure Budge and Levein would have got together over the summer and planned ahead for the coming season. This puts a line under everything that went before, hence the lack of reference to the earlier half of 2019. We are only 5 league games in, but the position we find ourselves in is unacceptable - I'm pretty sure she recognises that. However, we are still in the League Cup - however unconvincing the performances - and we have a number of new players settling in and a number to come back from injury. I understand exactly why she would be reluctant to ditch all the plans made so early on. She clearly believes that what Levein is doing is right, especially with the Academy and the playing infrastructure and that the only problem is the most visible and important one - the results of the first team. Personally, I am inclined to agree on that.

The only dispute then is whether Levein can turn the corner with the first team results - she believes he can, most of us fans, at best, have doubts and many are past any sort of faith in him whatsoever. Whether it's a sign of strength that she won't bow to fan pressure because she believes in him or a stubborn mistake, time will only tell. I expect that plans are being made in the background as to what could happen next should we continue to fail on the pitch. A handful of good results and we may never hear of them - lose against Hibs and Aberdeen and I suspect a lot more will be said in the next 2 weeks.

Meanwhile, it's important we get behind the team and support them. Protests should be kept until after matches - these things will only have a negative effect on the players on the pitch and is likely to prolong our suffering. Whether Levein is at the club or not, Heart of Midlothian is most important and they need our support through thick and thin.

Good post. Sums up how I feel. I'm bitterly disappointed by the current run of results and honestly feel we are at stage of needing a change  of first team coach. I am not going to indulge in some of the vitriol towards Ann Budge though who has done so much to save this club from oblivion. 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Deevers

[Adam_the_legend]

49 minutes ago, Boab said:

 To be fair to Budge, that’s just another interpretation of what she meant. 

The better opinion seems to be that that one word could have been left out. No real need for it.

 

46 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

That is your interpretation. Absolute bollocks imo. Nothing to do with the plan , nothing to do with protesting , nothing to do with wanting Levein gone. All to do with idiotic vitriol aimed toward her , breaking the law etc and a way to say she wont engage those who behave like that and possibly its not how a Hearts fan should behave. But hey thats just my interpretation so.....

You’re both right re the interpretation but that’s the case with almost everything. Even in law when things can be black and white lawyers can argue re the interpretation of things. The whole statement was a car crash from AB, so even if you forgive her poor choice of words with use of genuine or even what she meant by it, a lot of what she says in it is disingenuous, patronising nonsense. 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Adam_the_legend

[JamboAndrew]

12 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

I’m wondering if it would be possible to set up a sub-forum for those on here like myself who don’t feel “alienated”, are not “at war with the club”, are sick of the mind-numbingly stupid internet foaming on here and, instead are just disappointed in how poor we are just now, and can’t see a way CL can turn this around?

Can I join please.

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

What some folk are ignoring when they fixate on the first team and get annoyed about people rightly pointing out that the off field progress is so encouraging, is that the off field stuff is vital in securing long term prosperity.

 

I get it, everyone gets it; the first team is toiling. Every single supporter can see this. Of course first team results matter. The first team is after-all the one thing we all turn up to watch. This idea that nothing else matters however... ridiculous attitude. The irony being that it’s often the same people who come out with that patter, who also object to any arseholes in our support being called arseholes. Can’t criticise the fanz. 🙄

 

“Without the fanz there is no club” - obviously. Thankfully the arseholes and alt-fanz are not the majority, so in losing them and their carry on, we are not risking the future of the club.

 

“First team is all that matters” - Really? So we go back to running the club like a teenager who blows his monthly wage in one weekend and then toils for the rest of the time, accruing debts he can’t service, and we go bust? Why not... we will still have a first team to follow won’t we? It will still be Heart of Midlothian even if we are playing in public parks in the East of Scotland League. Sounds wonderful.

 

The fact is, the continued existence and prosperity of the club trumps everything else - including short term first team results. The stability and prosperity of the club is dependent on the “off field” stuff that gets dismissed so readily by many, when it is mentioned as a positive thing. The prosperity of the first team is long term absolutely dependent on the strength of the off field operation.

 

 

The two don't need to be done separately though. What you say is correct in many respects but securing off field prosperity doesn't have to result in the short term trashing of the first team.

 

We're not doing well of the field because we've cut the first team budget to a shoe string. Equally the first team isn't under performing because resource has been diverted elsewhere. Our budget, players and facilities should already have us a first team that's competitive towards the top end of the league. We can remain a good football side whilst simultaneously ensuring our long term prosperity off the field. The only reason we aren't doing both is due to the gross mismanagement of the first team operation.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Taffin

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, JimKongUno said:

 

were currently spending more on the first team than anyone bar Celtic , Rangers and Aberdeen . were bottom the league

 

As of the start of this season, I assume?

[tcjambo]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I actually fear he might win both and get himself another year further killing all my love and passion for the club. 

I want Levein a million miles away from Hearts now. All his plans have been laid bare, they don’t work, his plans are absolute pish, he’s fooled Budge though and he’s undoing her by the week. It’s actually a shame how much of a fool he’s making of her. 

I always hoped it wouldn’t come to this but it’s here and he’s brought it on himself. 

Levein you are an utter *****. 

Out. 

If he slithers back into another role I’ll utterly despise him. 

Out. 

Now. 

 

Your hatred is misplaced.

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, Spellczech said:

Cannot believe this is still being discussed...The message was clear as day...

 

The word "genuine" was included to specifically exclude those people who call themselves fans but are actually paid to write stuff in the media about the club. It is not aimed at Jazzy Geoff sitting in his underpants in the Boonies writing grumpy one liners at anyone who will take notice of his boring anti-Levein diatribe or anyone else on here... It is aimed at Michael "28th Oct 2018 is a random date, honestly" Stewart. The timing of the statement 2 days ago follows Stewart's BBC article from 16th... The ONLY other person it may have included apart from Stewart, is Gary Mackay but I don't think it was aimed at him TBH.

 

However, the self-importance of people on here who are demanding Budge do as they say as disgruntled supporters does fit with the self-importance of claiming that they are the ones being called less than "genuine".

 

Get over yourselves kids...

 

 

 

Do you write the way you read? Have you read the statement? 

 

She has a separate go at Michael and the media after her genuine fans comment. 

 

[Agentjambo]

3 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

Your hatred is misplaced.

Why?

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

What does that mean? 

You have zero credibility you hibs supporting clown. 

Ive waited a full day to post that. Tried to let myself calm down. 

Still cant EVER get my head round you wanting HIBS yes ****ing HIBS to win their holy grail. 

Do everyone a favour and **** off btw there’s a good chap. 

Arsehole. 

 

 

Lot of chat on here about what constitutes a "genuine" Hearts fan. Who knows for sure?

 

But I can tell what doesn't make you genuine: wanting hibs to win the Scottish Cup. It's a basic ******* requirement of being a Hearts fan ffs

 

I would also add that wanting hibs to qualify for Europe also discounts you from being genuine as well, if Ann is reading this.

[leginten]

25 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I've consistently said that things have to improve for the Hibs and particularly Aberdeen games. However, I have no influence at the club. My opinion is just words on an internet MB. I try to interpret things that are happening in football, particularly at Hearts, but I'm an outsider, not in the least bit "in the know". I do have a strong business background so I can perhaps understand and interpret owners' motives better than some on here, but I'm not a footballer and have never been in that bubble...

 

Levein failed to have the team ready for the start of the season. We were not good for most of last season. There are only so many times you can blame injuries before you have to look at medical teams, pitches, signing policies and management... I suspect Levein's position may be untenable even before the Hibs and Aberdeen games but I don't have a particular problem with Budge holding in there if she thinks it right.

 

I thought I made it clear with the 2 JPEGs that the statement was timed exactly in response to Stewart's BBC article...Perhaps I should couch every sentence I write with "IMO", but is it really necessary for me to do that for you?

 

 

 

No, you don’t need to qualify everything with ”IMO”. But on a thread where there is a wide range of opinions about what was meant, it might have been less arrogant not to refer to the “brute stupidity” of those who hadn’t reached the same conclusion.

 

Anyway (feeling like Paxman here), I’ll lob in my question for the third time on the off-chance that it might get an answer: if your theory is correct, do you think it was appropriate for the owner of Hearts to use an official statement to the fans at a time of crisis to pursue a petty spat with Michael Stewart?

[Adam_the_legend]

14 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

What some folk are ignoring when they fixate on the first team and get annoyed about people rightly pointing out that the off field progress is so encouraging, is that the off field stuff is vital in securing long term prosperity.

 

I get it, everyone gets it; the first team is toiling. Every single supporter can see this. Of course first team results matter. The first team is after-all the one thing we all turn up to watch. This idea that nothing else matters however... ridiculous attitude. The irony being that it’s often the same people who come out with that patter, who also object to any arseholes in our support being called arseholes. Can’t criticise the fanz. 🙄

 

“Without the fanz there is no club” - obviously. Thankfully the arseholes and alt-fanz are not the majority, so in losing them and their carry on, we are not risking the future of the club.

 

“First team is all that matters” - Really? So we go back to running the club like a teenager who blows his monthly wage in one weekend and then toils for the rest of the time, accruing debts he can’t service, and we go bust? Why not... we will still have a first team to follow won’t we? It will still be Heart of Midlothian even if we are playing in public parks in the East of Scotland League. Sounds wonderful.

 

The fact is, the continued existence and prosperity of the club trumps everything else - including short term first team results. The stability and prosperity of the club is dependent on the “off field” stuff that gets dismissed so readily by many, when it is mentioned as a positive thing. The prosperity of the first team is long term absolutely dependent on the strength of the off field operation.

Surely the whole point of having a strong commercial side, of increasing revenues and revenue streams, is so we can fund improvements on the park. We are a football club after all, if what we do away from the pitch isn’t to help with what happens on it what is even the point???

[leginten]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

 

Lot of chat on here about what constitutes a "genuine" Hearts fan. Who knows for sure?

 

But I can tell what doesn't make you genuine: wanting hibs to win the Scottish Cup. It's a basic ******* requirement of being a Hearts fan ffs

 

I would also add that wanting hibs to qualify for Europe also discounts you from being genuine as well, if Ann is reading this.

 

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, tcjambo said:

Your hatred is misplaced.

Is it aye? 

How long have we to tolerate this? Why do Hearts fans have to put up with this bullshit? I liked Levein and I’ve tried my hardest to give him the opportunity to turn it around. 

He wont go, Budge won’t do the necessary so it’s up to us to drive him out. 

Its going to get ugly sadly. 

[Boab]

1 minute ago, Adam_the_legend said:

Surely the whole point of having a strong commercial side, of increasing revenues and revenue streams, is so we can fund improvements on the park. We are a football club after all, if what we do away from the pitch isn’t to help with what happens on it what is even the point???

 

But it is. That’s exactly what is happening. Funds are being made available to improve the footballing side from other streams.

The Problem is, the guy whose job it is to improve things, is not doing a good job of it. He has been given “ the tools “, he’s not making very good decisions with them.

[tcjambo]

6 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

Why?

Hatred is a very strong word. Anybody who hates anybody over football is an areshole. It also impairs the ability to think rationally as has been proven by many on various threads.

[Bazzas right boot]

43 minutes ago, annushorribilis III said:

Given that Levein hasn't produced anything remotely acceptable in the last 30 games - bearing in mind the bulk of games recently have been against largely "inferior" opposition - there hasn't been any "results" to support this assertion. 

 

 

 

The sc final thread, read that.

 

Even now folk are saying it doesn't matter if he wins games.

 

Clearly not results based.

 

It wasn't 30 games 12 months plus ago either, so that argument doesn't stack up going the posting history of some. How could it be result based then?

 

I think the time has gone for him to go as well but the personal drama, faux outrage and general drama ( and hatred) shown by some towards Ann's statement is imo stupid.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Smith's right boot

[Adam_the_legend]

29 minutes ago, Taffin said:

"Must beat Hibs and Aberdeen" will become "must beat St Mirren and Kilmarnock". Guaranteed. 

This 100%

[mitch41]

28 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

I’m wondering if it would be possible to set up a sub-forum for those on here like myself who don’t feel “alienated”, are not “at war with the club”, are sick of the mind-numbingly stupid internet foaming on here and, instead are just disappointed in how poor we are just now, and can’t see a way CL can turn this around?

Your sick ! try going and watching Hearts it’s stomach churning.

[mitch41]

1 minute ago, Adam_the_legend said:

This 100%

If we win the next 6 games Levein should still be sacked because he and his coach’s are way out of their depth.

[i8hibsh]

Genuine Hearts fans do not cosy up with anyone associated with Hibernian Football club

 

 

[Haken]

30 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

I take all of your points.

 

There is one sure-fire way for the in-fighting to cease, and that is for Hearts to start winning football matches. Our form since Murrayfield has been nothing short of a disgrace. The fact that there are still people getting wound up about criticism of the worst-equal winless league run in our history tells you a lot. We are actually far too meek, accepting and tolerant. The club deserves infinitely more criticism from both media and supporters than it has actually had.

Agree with most of that.  On the final sentence, I think the support has been pretty clear on its views.  I'm just amazed the plane has remained grounded.  It would be interesting to see a critical piece from someone not connected to the club in any way.

[ford donald]

4 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

The sc final thread, read that.

 

Even now folk are saying it doesn't matter if he wins games.

 

Clearly not results based.

It's not always the result, it's how your team performs.I accept a defeat as long as the team has played decent football and gave it's all,no one should complain about that.Again that's down to the manager.

[Big Slim Stylee]

3 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Your sick ! try going and watching Hearts it’s stomach churning.

 

I thought we were piss poor on Saturday. Bereft of ideas. But it’s the semi-literate rants from people like you that I find almost as objectionable as the state of our first team.

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

Genuine Hearts fans do not cosy up with anyone associated with Hibernian Football club

 

 

🤮

Ann has recently employed her nephew to run the Hearts bar too. 

Trolls Hearts fans on Twitter regular. 

 

[Jambo-Fox]

43 minutes ago, ford donald said:

So Preston and Mackay are in the media are they real or genuine fans? They attack CL as well,rightly so in my book,they care about Hearts.

Yes I think they are! 

 

MacKay has always expressed his opinions constructively and professionally - as you would expect from all real and genuine fans!

[leginten]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

🤮

Ann has recently employed her nephew to run the Hearts bar too. 

Trolls Hearts fans on Twitter regular. 

 

 

Only a matter of time before the rat-droppings start to appear in the peanuts, then.

[The Treasurer]

29 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

 

The two don't need to be done separately though. What you say is correct in many respects but securing off field prosperity doesn't have to result in the short term trashing of the first team.

 

We're not doing well of the field because we've cut the first team budget to a shoe string. Equally the first team isn't under performing because resource has been diverted elsewhere. Our budget, players and facilities should already have us a first team that's competitive towards the top end of the league. We can remain a good football side whilst simultaneously ensuring our long term prosperity off the field. The only reason we aren't doing both is due to the gross mismanagement of the first team operation.

We've spent more on the playing budget this season than we have since Vlad first arrived.

[Adam_the_legend]

7 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

If we win the next 6 games Levein should still be sacked because he and his coach’s are way out of their depth.

He obviously won’t be but the original point was valid. Those saying give him Hibs and Aberdeen are just delaying, praying he gets a result. They’ll come up with some new bull**** argument if he loses them both, probably something to do with injuries. 

[Gordon Ramsay]

11 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Genuine Hearts fans do not cosy up with anyone associated with Hibernian Football club

 

 

Nail on head. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 hour ago, BervieJambo said:

The statement has backfired somewhat as it has caused even more division amongst the fans.

The 'genuine fans' comment was clearly a jibe at a section of people. I interpret it as those who have been attacking her for a length of time - those who have been singing the "in the wrong hands" song for the last 3 years, those who continue with the sectarian & racist crap, those who think pyrotechnics are clever. She is never going to appease these guys. I also saw it as a slight at the so-called Hearts fans in the media... Michael Stewart... who are quick to have a go at what is happening at the club.

To my mind, Ann Budge has done an excellent job at the club over the past few years. To ensure we never get into the mess that we were in before she saved us, we need to make ourselves more family friendly and find other sources of finance. Some things may not be popular with certain sections, but that does not mean it is not the right thing to do. Some things may appear to be at the detriment of the first team, especially when we are going through a sustained bad patch - for example, money could maybe be spent on better male players than investing in the women's team (I don't agee, but I've seen some on hear stating that).

I'm quite sure Budge and Levein would have got together over the summer and planned ahead for the coming season. This puts a line under everything that went before, hence the lack of reference to the earlier half of 2019. We are only 5 league games in, but the position we find ourselves in is unacceptable - I'm pretty sure she recognises that. However, we are still in the League Cup - however unconvincing the performances - and we have a number of new players settling in and a number to come back from injury. I understand exactly why she would be reluctant to ditch all the plans made so early on. She clearly believes that what Levein is doing is right, especially with the Academy and the playing infrastructure and that the only problem is the most visible and important one - the results of the first team. Personally, I am inclined to agree on that.

The only dispute then is whether Levein can turn the corner with the first team results - she believes he can, most of us fans, at best, have doubts and many are past any sort of faith in him whatsoever. Whether it's a sign of strength that she won't bow to fan pressure because she believes in him or a stubborn mistake, time will only tell. I expect that plans are being made in the background as to what could happen next should we continue to fail on the pitch. A handful of good results and we may never hear of them - lose against Hibs and Aberdeen and I suspect a lot more will be said in the next 2 weeks.

Meanwhile, it's important we get behind the team and support them. Protests should be kept until after matches - these things will only have a negative effect on the players on the pitch and is likely to prolong our suffering. Whether Levein is at the club or not, Heart of Midlothian is most important and they need our support through thick and thin.

 

On the button as far as I am concerned

[Nookie Bear]

16 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said:

What some folk are ignoring when they fixate on the first team and get annoyed about people rightly pointing out that the off field progress is so encouraging, is that the off field stuff is vital in securing long term prosperity.

 

I get it, everyone gets it; the first team is toiling. Every single supporter can see this. Of course first team results matter. The first team is after-all the one thing we all turn up to watch. This idea that nothing else matters however... ridiculous attitude. The irony being that it’s often the same people who come out with that patter, who also object to any arseholes in our support being called arseholes. Can’t criticise the fanz. 🙄

 

“Without the fanz there is no club” - obviously. Thankfully the arseholes and alt-fanz are not the majority, so in losing them and their carry on, we are not risking the future of the club.

 

“First team is all that matters” - Really? So we go back to running the club like a teenager who blows his monthly wage in one weekend and then toils for the rest of the time, accruing debts he can’t service, and we go bust? Why not... we will still have a first team to follow won’t we? It will still be Heart of Midlothian even if we are playing in public parks in the East of Scotland League. Sounds wonderful.

 

The fact is, the continued existence and prosperity of the club trumps everything else - including short term first team results. The stability and prosperity of the club is dependent on the “off field” stuff that gets dismissed so readily by many, when it is mentioned as a positive thing. The prosperity of the first team is long term absolutely dependent on the strength of the off field operation.

 

Do the two things have to be mutually exclusive? The financial health of the club is important and i would not wish to be in a position we were 5 years ago, but a successful 1st Team provides the impetus for so much of the off-field funding and i sense Ann does not always see the connect - why would she, when season ticket sales are good?

 

The fact our off-field position is so positive makes the last 12 months' performances even more shocking. It is inexcusable, frankly.

 

At the end of the day, she is failing to deal with a fundamental problem with the organisation. Why? Why does Levein receive the endless patience that Cathro did not? Is it because Ann knows she cannot move him back upstairs without a huge backlash, especially if the next Head Coach is chosen solely on their ability to work with Craig? If that is the case, she needs to be brave and make that move and deal with the fallout (and pray results start to turn).

 

Alternatively she really believes that Levein can turn this around and our struggles are solely down to injuries, in which case i disagree with her.

[i8hibsh]

7 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

🤮

Ann has recently employed her nephew to run the Hearts bar too. 

Trolls Hearts fans on Twitter regular. 

 

 

Ah, another piece of job creation by Queen Ann.  I assume he is a Hibee?

 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Ah, another piece of job creation by Queen Ann.  I assume he is a Hibee?

 

 

 

Yep. 

Hibs *****. 

[Jambo-Fox]

46 minutes ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

I’m wondering if it would be possible to set up a sub-forum for those on here like myself who don’t feel “alienated”, are not “at war with the club”, are sick of the mind-numbingly stupid internet foaming on here and, instead are just disappointed in how poor we are just now, and can’t see a way CL can turn this around?

I’m in!

[Hearts1975]

On 19/09/2019 at 21:50, Spellczech said:

There are messages above, in this thread, which answer these questions, or at least give my interpretation of what is happening...This is a common JKB thing - people dive into the middle of a discussion and fire off a response to a single post. The context of a discussion is important. Same with Budge's statement - it is clear from the comments on here that many people got so incensed by the phrase "genuine fans" that they comment on that alone without looking at the context of it within her statement...

Ok, I may have literally jumped in at that post, and I admit, if there was some context, I didn’t read your previous posts in the thread 

 

I did read her statement. I am just really frustrated and don’t understand why she binned Locke, binned Cathro but keeps Levein on. Can’t fathom it at all unless it is blind faith .. 

 

I mean, have we really improved as a direct result. I feel a bit for her as well as all the good stuff she is doing off the park is being tarnished by the indecision, to make decisions, about on the park matters . Supporters will always link the 2 things together in terms of an appraisal (right or wrong)