i wish jj was my dad Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 17 minutes ago, Jammy T said: There are two things I genuinely don’t understand about this what I would call a “faux” argument. In our 5 years plan we had two significant unexpected outlays. A big **** off stand and a new hybrid ‘top of the class’ pitch. I genuinely don’t understand why no account is taken of this whatsoever. The other thing is - I will never understand why so many people wanted the guy that had us ahead of our footballing schedule hounded out of the club. I understand people moaned about the quality of football but we were still building up the finances to sign better players - we didn’t have those finances at the time. If there is any lesson in what happened to Neilson is that the fans need to get a bit more of a grip of themselves when things are actually going pretty well on the pitch, and that getting shot of a manager who is building a team is pretty stupid. Spot on JT. TBF I've had my doubts about Craig remaining in the hotseat but if he can get the players he wants and we avoid having our best players being decimated again I can see us having a proper go If we are stupid enough to hound him out of the DOF role we will regret it big time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Bridge of Djoum said: Excellently put. I think the Cathro appointment was brave and worth the risk, ultimately it was pretty disastrous. Did indeed set us back. Onwards and upwards. “Brave??? No it was a stupid decision by an arrogant DoF who thought he could single handedly revolutionise football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 4 hours ago, JamboAl said: He might be correct, he might not. I don't know. What I am saying is that if you do not know what the plan is, how can you judge success or failure against it? Having dialogue and giving specific plans/yardsticks are a different matter. CL has said he hopes to sign 4 players who will be an upgrade but that is a hope (and dialogue BTW). What more is it that you think we should get? Well Ann Budge must know how most fans feel about Levein. She shouldn’t ignore the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 2 hours ago, mitch41 said: Well Ann Budge must know how most fans feel about Levein. She shouldn’t ignore the fans. According to our poll, Half the fans. What half should she ignore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 8 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: According to our poll, Half the fans. What half should she ignore? And this pole of 100% genuine Hearts fans and not weighted by those with extreme views or agendas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 19 minutes ago, Sid said: And this pole of 100% genuine Hearts fans and not weighted by those with extreme views or agendas. Can't confirm. But Likley some on both sides and still fans by accounts even if they have extreme views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biffa Bacon Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 47 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: According to our poll, Half the fans. What half should she ignore? Or half the people that registered a vote... remember the recent Zibby poll in the EEN.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 51 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: According to our poll, Half the fans. What half should she ignore? That poll has been corrupted because who in their right mind would want to keep Levein and his Bootroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 3 hours ago, mitch41 said: Well Ann Budge must know how most fans feel about Levein. She shouldn’t ignore the fans. She should certainly ignore you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Don’t like the result of a poll? Does it not reflect your own view? Blame foul play. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said: “Brave??? No it was a stupid decision by an arrogant DoF who thought he could single handedly revolutionise football. Balanced viewpoint as always by you. You deliberately left left out the balanced part of my post in favor of highlighting the “happy clapping” part. Your rhetoric is also shite. “Arrogant” “stupid”. You read like like a fly over state Trump supporter. All bullshit, no substance. Edited June 1, 2019 by Bridge of Djoum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I wish Levein had been given a management role in the stand building process. Would have gone a lot smoother and looked better from the outside, I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 20 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said: Don’t like the result of a poll? Does it not reflect your own view? Blame foul play. ? Vladimir? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said: Vladimir? да товарищ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said: Balanced viewpoint as always by you. You deliberately left left out the balanced part of my post in favor of highlighting the “happy clapping” part. Your rhetoric is also shite. “Arrogant” “stupid”. You read like like a fly over state Trump supporter. All bullshit, no substance. I seem to have upset you. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 14 hours ago, ToqueJambo said: Let's get real here. Under Cathro we hit a brick wall. Levein then had to undo all that after the season had started. He turned around our home and derby form that season and made a couple of good signings like McLaughlin and Naismith. Then he rebuilt the squad completely and started great, got hammered with injuries but still got us to our first SC final in 7 years. Why is everyone ignoring the injuries? It's weird. He "rebuilt" the squad to the extent where we now need another clear out. Our home form regressed last season and we lost to every team in the league except one. Finished 15 points behind Killie again and trailed in 6th, behind Hibs for consecutive seasons, the first time that has happened in 25 years. Also proved his complete inability to win in Glasgow right up until the last day of the season. We need a new manager to come in and work with the core of players we have, clear out some of the dross and add the quality we need to compete. Levein is incapable of doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 46 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: He "rebuilt" the squad to the extent where we now need another clear out. Our home form regressed last season and we lost to every team in the league except one. Finished 15 points behind Killie again and trailed in 6th, behind Hibs for consecutive seasons, the first time that has happened in 25 years. Also proved his complete inability to win in Glasgow right up until the last day of the season. We need a new manager to come in and work with the core of players we have, clear out some of the dross and add the quality we need to compete. Levein is incapable of doing that. What “core of players” is that? The core of good quality players we have on long term contracts? Who is responsible for that? Doesn't fit your agenda answering that point. Interested how you turn that into a negative like you do every other comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Sid said: What “core of players” is that? The core of good quality players we have on long term contracts? Who is responsible for that? Doesn't fit your agenda answering that point. Interested how you turn that into a negative like you do every other comment. Berra and Smith (Cathro signings), Souttar (Neilson), Haring (Levein), Naismith if he signs (Levein) .Uche? Would rather we deployed a different system of play that rendered him more of a bit part player. A new manager would oversee the transition of our young players that can progress into becoming first team regulars. Others may need to be moved on, Brandon, Morrison possibly, along with some of those that are simply bang average and formed part of the huge turnover of players that have come in over the last few years. We are crying out for better management on the football side, despite the comical attempts of some posters to paint Levein's last 2 seasons as being a smooth structured , steady team building exercise when, in reality, it has been a disjointed shambles. I do appreciate, however, that with the team moving to new dressing rooms and using the new tunnel, that the upheaval may lead to us having to write off next season and start again in 20/21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 25 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: Berra and Smith (Cathro signings), Souttar (Neilson), Haring (Levein), Naismith if he signs (Levein) .Uche? Would rather we deployed a different system of play that rendered him more of a bit part player. A new manager would oversee the transition of our young players that can progress into becoming first team regulars. Others may need to be moved on, Brandon, Morrison possibly, along with some of those that are simply bang average and formed part of the huge turnover of players that have come in over the last few years. We are crying out for better management on the football side, despite the comical attempts of some posters to paint Levein's last 2 seasons as being a smooth structured , steady team building exercise when, in reality, it has been a disjointed shambles. I do appreciate, however, that with the team moving to new dressing rooms and using the new tunnel, that the upheaval may lead to us having to write off next season and start again in 20/21. Calm down Spencer. It’s a Sunday during the close season - relax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 9 hours ago, mitch41 said: That poll has been corrupted because who in their right mind would want to keep Levein and his Bootroom. It's corrupted because you don't agree with it. ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Biffa Bacon said: Or half the people that registered a vote... remember the recent Zibby poll in the EEN.. Think what you want. If the poll was heavily in your favour you'd have taken that as evidence of Hearts fans wanting CL out. Because it's closer than sone folk want, it's hibs fans and the poll is dismissed. No way for the "happy clappers" to move either way. Rock and hard Place. Quite clearly all the fans don't want CL gone. So to say Ann is ignoring "the fans" is bullshite. She is ignoring some fans, and if she sacked CL she would also be ignoring some fans. If anything, the poll puts to bed the shite talk of " every Hearts fan", "90% of Hearts fans" etc. Folk foaming at the mouth for the whole season about CL do not speak for "the fans" so they should stop claiming to do so. They can have their opinion, but they shouldn't try to make that the view of the majority or whole of the Hearts support., because it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: It's corrupted because you don't agree with it. ????? Precisely. Don’t like the fact a poll doesn’t agree with your suppositions? Cry foul. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Religion Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 10 hours ago, mitch41 said: That poll has been corrupted because who in their right mind would want to keep Levein and his Bootroom. Mitchel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Any, the 5 year plan has been a success. Admin, relegation - 6th in league. How much of a success can be debated, but it's been a success on and off the pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said: Precisely. Don’t like the fact a poll doesn’t agree with your suppositions? Cry foul. ? The poll has truly failed in its prime objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, JamboAl said: The poll has truly failed in its prime objective. Indeed. Amongst all the screeching of the groupthink echo-chamber posters, a few of us have been trying to point out that the support is not overwhelmingly in favour of launching the manager. Shouted down though. “Only on Kickback”, “all the real fans who go to games”, “everyone in my group” etc. Personally I’ve found opinion to be split pretty much along the lines of the poll. I’ve learned these opinions by having calm conversations with fellow fans though. Not just shouting my own opinion as loudly as I can and being totally unwilling to accept that the guy sitting there quietly enjoying his pint, or watching the match may not agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 2 hours ago, soonbe110 said: Calm down Spencer. It’s a Sunday during the close season - relax No problem Wee Chuck's Heid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Cruickshank for Scotland said: I seem to have upset you. ? Not even close, old chap. Your vitriol is tiresome, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Icon of Symmetry said: да товарищ Uncle Joe approves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 59 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said: No problem Wee Chuck's Heid. Incorrect profiling. ? Wrong, again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzo Chiefo Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: Incorrect profiling. ? Wrong, again. I thought you would appear. Hook, line and sinker, as they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Icon of Symmetry said: Indeed. Amongst all the screeching of the groupthink echo-chamber posters, a few of us have been trying to point out that the support is not overwhelmingly in favour of launching the manager. Shouted down though. “Only on Kickback”, “all the real fans who go to games”, “everyone in my group” etc. Personally I’ve found opinion to be split pretty much along the lines of the poll. I’ve learned these opinions by having calm conversations with fellow fans though. Not just shouting my own opinion as loudly as I can and being totally unwilling to accept that the guy sitting there quietly enjoying his pint, or watching the match may not agree with it. In all honesty the poll shows my true feelings. I think CL will improve us and I think sticking is better than another average or below manager starting again. Pressley, McCann, Hartley, Robbo (Naismith as player/ manager) etc along with an English journeyman don't say to me wow, improvement is a given. However, if he was replaced by a proven outstanding candidate then I'd also be happy. Moyes, maybe Ross or some successful manager from another league would be greeted with open arms. But it's not happening. Many of the rabid CL out posters have half a plan if they're lucky. Reminds me of Farrage tbh, wants something done but has no idea or plan what to do after it and will Likley need someone else to clean up the mess.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said: I thought you would appear. Hook, line and sinker, as they say. Great vision, a poster that posts almost daily.... appeared. You have a gift. Dunno how you predict such events with such accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: Many of the rabid CL out posters have half a plan if they're lucky. Reminds me of Farrage tbh, wants something done but has no idea or plan what to do after it and will Likley need someone else to clean up the mess.. Reminds me of this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Icon of Symmetry said: Reminds me of this: ???? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biffa Bacon Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: Think what you want. If the poll was heavily in your favour you'd have taken that as evidence of Hearts fans wanting CL out. Because it's closer than sone folk want, it's hibs fans and the poll is dismissed. No way for the "happy clappers" to move either way. Rock and hard Place. Quite clearly all the fans don't want CL gone. So to say Ann is ignoring "the fans" is bullshite. She is ignoring some fans, and if she sacked CL she would also be ignoring some fans. If anything, the poll puts to bed the shite talk of " every Hearts fan", "90% of Hearts fans" etc. Folk foaming at the mouth for the whole season about CL do not speak for "the fans" so they should stop claiming to do so. They can have their opinion, but they shouldn't try to make that the view of the majority or whole of the Hearts support., because it's not. I did not express a view either way, just pointing out the shortcomings of an online poll on KB. Thanks for allowing me to think what I want. Also you have no legitimacy to claim you hold the view of the majority of Hearts support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 15 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said: I did not express a view either way, just pointing out the shortcomings of an online poll on KB. Thanks for allowing me to think what I want. Also you have no legitimacy to claim you hold the view of the majority of Hearts support. Everyone knows the shortcomings of a jkb poll. In other news, water is wet. The short comings work both ways way tho, not only on one option. I don't care what you think, but it's annoying when posters claim that Ann is going against the fans, 90% of Hearts fans, every Hearts fan etc. It's a fabrication, a lie. It is not true, as per my main post point. I have never claimed that I hold the view of the majority in any shape or form of the Hearts support on this matter. Unlike some on this thread. I don't even know the point in your post tbh? Are you claiming that most / large majority / all of the Hearts fans want CL gone? If so, Where's your evidence? Why do you think this? If not and you don't care or want CL to stay then what's your point caller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 The "five year plan" ended the day Neilson left for MK Dons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biffa Bacon Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Olly Lee's left boot said: Everyone knows the shortcomings of a jkb poll. In other news, water is wet. The short comings work both ways way tho, not only on one option. I don't care what you think, but it's annoying when posters claim that Ann is going against the fans, 90% of Hearts fans, every Hearts fan etc. It's a fabrication, a lie. It is not true, as per my main post point. I have never claimed that I hold the view of the majority in any shape or form of the Hearts support on this matter. Unlike some on this thread. I don't even know the point in your post tbh? Are you claiming that most / large majority / all of the Hearts fans want CL gone? If so, Where's your evidence? Why do you think this? If not and you don't care or want CL to stay then what's your point caller? you stated "They can have their opinion, but they shouldn't try to make that the view of the majority or whole of the Hearts support., because it's not. " inferring that you know what the majority view is. My view is that we were too quick in letting Robbie go, continual change is not helpful. each new manager has to get his players in, and although all signings have some risk, Sammon and Martin for example are examples of how it can go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 22 hours ago, Ugly American said: It's worth noting that despite hopes that it would be otherwise, the stand redevelopment did pin back the finances of the club for a few years, which limited our options on the field. The increase in income from the new stand will offset that over time and in the long run I think will almost certainly be a net positive on our cash flow. But in the narrow window of the short term, it will have had to limit the players we could sign and/or retain. I still think Cathro, he of the all-time-worst (among permanent appointments) 23% win percentage, is more responsible for our current woes than anything else, but the decision to replace the stand, which I think was absolutely correct, has limited us a bit. We've had plenty time since cathro departed. Unfair to continue to blame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 16 hours ago, JamboAl said: She should certainly ignore you. Only people who know nothing about football ignore me. Someone once said that he was the special one. He was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Bad Religion said: Mitchel. may your belief in thinking your right keep you saine. Mitch is alright as big words/names are obviously a wee problem for you. BOOTROOM BOOTROOM BOOTROOM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 21 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said: you stated "They can have their opinion, but they shouldn't try to make that the view of the majority or whole of the Hearts support., because it's not. " inferring that you know what the majority view is. My view is that we were too quick in letting Robbie go, continual change is not helpful. each new manager has to get his players in, and although all signings have some risk, Sammon and Martin for example are examples of how it can go wrong. It is inferring nothing, other than the majority / whole of the Hearts does not want CL gone. Considering the poll and posts on here that holds true. It is a logical conclusion. It in no way indicates that my opinion is also the opinion the majority or all of the Hearts support. That is quite a leap, a leap you made yourself. I agree to your point. All of topic anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 Sorry, I can't help it. The speaker implies, the listener infers. Sorry again, I'd probably struggle to sleep tonight if I didn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 We cannot blame Cathro for our current plight......CL has been manager for best part of two full seasons and had 4 or 5 transfer windows to build an adequate squad. In less than that same period time Steve Clark took Killie from rock bottom of the league to top 4 twice spending a small fraction of what we have. Hibs also swept by us after being promoted. Craig Levein has done some good business but he’s also done some very bad business and this is why we are a bang average team in a largely poor division. Next season will probably be his last year in management and hopefully he can leave us in a position where it won’t take his replacement two or three seasons to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 32 minutes ago, DH1986 said: We cannot blame Cathro for our current plight......CL has been manager for best part of two full seasons and had 4 or 5 transfer windows to build an adequate squad. In less than that same period time Steve Clark took Killie from rock bottom of the league to top 4 twice spending a small fraction of what we have. Hibs also swept by us after being promoted. Craig Levein has done some good business but he’s also done some very bad business and this is why we are a bang average team in a largely poor division. Next season will probably be his last year in management and hopefully he can leave us in a position where it won’t take his replacement two or three seasons to rebuild. Fair argument but its three Jan Summer Jan , you can’t count a couple of days in August the previous year. I think the most important thing with Levein is getting that stability for whoever takes over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Magic Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 42 minutes ago, DH1986 said: We cannot blame Cathro for our current plight......CL has been manager for best part of two full seasons and had 4 or 5 transfer windows to build an adequate squad. In less than that same period time Steve Clark took Killie from rock bottom of the league to top 4 twice spending a small fraction of what we have. Hibs also swept by us after being promoted. Craig Levein has done some good business but he’s also done some very bad business and this is why we are a bang average team in a largely poor division. Next season will probably be his last year in management and hopefully he can leave us in a position where it won’t take his replacement two or three seasons to rebuild. Have you considered we might finish top 4 with a couple of good cup runs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 12 hours ago, Enzo Chiefo said: He "rebuilt" the squad to the extent where we now need another clear out. Our home form regressed last season and we lost to every team in the league except one. Finished 15 points behind Killie again and trailed in 6th, behind Hibs for consecutive seasons, the first time that has happened in 25 years. Also proved his complete inability to win in Glasgow right up until the last day of the season. We need a new manager to come in and work with the core of players we have, clear out some of the dross and add the quality we need to compete. Levein is incapable of doing that. Who says we need a clear out? We're signing 3 or 4 depending on who leaves and we're releasing a couple and will no doubt accept offers for some if they're deemed surplus. Who would you clear out exactly? I assume you mean players like Lee, Burns, Clare, Wighton, Bozanic who are fine squad players with the potential IMO to push on. Clearing them out would mean finding replacements. We're never going to be signing a whole squad of proven first team players! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 2 hours ago, mitch41 said: Only people who know nothing about football ignore me. Someone once said that he was the special one. He was wrong. I assume you then think that CL is the special one. That's some turnaround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch41 Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 49 minutes ago, JamboAl said: I assume you then think that CL is the special one. That's some turnaround. Eh NO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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