5 Year plan - regressed.

[JamboAl]

11 minutes ago, mitch41 said:

Eh NO...

Mitch, it's amazing how I got that wrong.

[DH1986]

2 hours ago, sadj said:

 

Fair argument but its three Jan Summer Jan , you can’t count a couple of days in August the previous year. I think the most important thing with Levein is getting that stability for whoever takes over. 

 

We had over 4 weeks left of the August transfer window left when we got rid of Cathro......as the man in complete charge of player recruitment for that 4 weeks we have to count it I’m afraid.

 

 

[DH1986]

2 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:

 

Have you considered we might finish top 4 with a couple of good cup runs?

 

Have you considered we might not ?

 

After two successive 6th places finishes and a 5th place before that, we’re going to have to improve a great deal in the recruitment of players.

 

After several poor windows it’s just blind faith or hope that CL’s judgement has got far better a year down the from the last big recruitment drive.

Edited June 2, 2019 by DH1986

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

We had over 4 weeks left of the August transfer window left when we got rid of Cathro......as the man in complete charge of player recruitment for that 4 weeks we have to count it I’m afraid.

 

 

 

We'd already signed Lafferty and Berra probably at a large cost. Experienced players like Hughes and Smith too so I'd wonder how much budget was left.

 

On the up side, Milinkovic and McLaughlin were very good successes from those 4 weeks, Callachan did a job. Can't think of anyone else we signed.

 

Similarly mixed in the next January window. Mitchell and Adao good, Amankwa not so much. 

[DH1986]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

We'd already signed Lafferty and Berra probably at a large cost. Experienced players like Hughes and Smith too so I'd wonder how much budget was left.

 

On the up side, Milinkovic and McLaughlin were very good successes from those 4 weeks, Callachan did a job. Can't think of anyone else we signed.

 

Similarly mixed in the next January window. Mitchell and Adao good, Amankwa not so much. 

 

So.....

 

Some good and some bad as I said. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

So.....

 

Some good and some bad as I said. 

 

Yeah like every window and manager. I think Levein is better at signing players than he's given credit for. Too much focus on the numbers recently, which are skewed when people talk about his time as DoF and manager because of Cathro's two windows and the work needed to rectify that, plus the complete squad rebuild needed for the championship and then the upgrades needed after promotion.

 

Hibs are releasing 17 or something. Pretty sure after this window they'll have signed more players than us over the last 5 or 6 years.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Guest

[Jammy T]

5 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

The "five year plan" ended the day Neilson left for MK Dons.

 

True. And it was ahead of schedule.

[sadj]

39 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

We had over 4 weeks left of the August transfer window left when we got rid of Cathro......as the man in complete charge of player recruitment for that 4 weeks we have to count it I’m afraid.

 

 

Why? That summer transfer window was done bringing in players that Cathro wanted. Do you expect us to ship them out and bring in Levein players in August. Jesus H Christ. Please tell me you won’t ever be in control of finances at the club. You can’t count a window where all the recruitment for the whole season had been done. Callachan and McLoughlin came in both who provided success to differing degrees. Callachan whilst poor was a lesser Edwards but provided energy. McLoughlin after his mistake v Thistle was superb for us.

[DH1986]

6 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Yeah like every window and manager. I think Levein is better at signing players than he's given credit for. Too much focus on the numbers recently, which are skewed when people talk about his time as DoF and manager because of Cathro's two windows and the work needed to rectify that, plus the complete squad rebuild needed for the championship and then the upgrades needed after promotion.

 

Hibs are releasing 17 or something. Pretty sure after this window they'll have signed more players than us over the last 5 or 6 years.

 

I think he’s made a huge number of errors....too many ‘risks’ for my liking.

 

Last season :

 

Zlamal - Ok

Doyle - Pish

 

Hughes - Pish

Dunne - Good

Shaughnessy - Meh

Dikamona - Ok

 

Mitchell - Meh

Garrucio - Meh

Burns - Meh

 

Mulraney - Ok

Bozanic - Meh

Lee - Meh

Haring - Good

Edwards - Meh

Clare - Meh

 

McLean - Meh

Naismith - Good

Uche - Good

Wighton - Pish

Vanacek - Pish

 

It’s a poor return of good and ok signings from that amount of players.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, sadj said:

Why? That summer transfer window was done bringing in players that Cathro wanted. Do you expect us to ship them out and bring in Levein players in August. Jesus H Christ. Please tell me you won’t ever be in control of finances at the club. You can’t count a window where all the recruitment for the whole season had been done. Callachan and McLoughlin came in both who provided success to differing degrees. Callachan whilst poor was a lesser Edwards but provided energy. McLoughlin after his mistake v Thistle was superb for us.

 

And Milinkovic I think? Levein has his faults but his signings record isn't really one of them.

 

In terms of signing a proven international at a good age with huge ability, a great attitude and leadership qualities, Naismith is up there with someone like Takis Fyssis as one of our best signings in the last 15 years. Levein made that happen.

 

In terms of signing someone from virtually nowhere and turning him into a massive success story, Haring is up there with someone like Mike Galloway. Levein's work.

 

Even Mulraney could yet prove to be one of the best youngsters signed and improved by us in recent years.

 

As DoF, Sow, Pallardo, Zeefuik, Berra, Souttar, Lafferty, Djoum, Johnson (considering how well he's done in Netherlands) and Dunne were all outstanding signings.

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Mitch, it's amazing how I got that wrong.

I know it’s so unusual. Even Tom Jones agrees with me.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

I think he’s made a huge number of errors....too many ‘risks’ for my liking.

 

Last season :

 

Zlamal - Ok

Doyle - Pish

 

Hughes - Pish

Dunne - Good

Shaughnessy - Meh

Dikamona - Ok

 

Mitchell - Meh

Garrucio - Meh

Burns - Meh

 

Mulraney - Ok

Bozanic - Meh

Lee - Meh

Haring - Good

Edwards - Meh

Clare - Meh

 

McLean - Meh

Naismith - Good

Uche - Good

Wighton - Pish

Vanacek - Pish

 

It’s a poor return of good and ok signings from that amount of players.

 

 

Meh could mean anything - average? Not sure of difference between meh and OK. There are some outstanding signings in there. Naismith, Dunne and Haring are way above "good". Before injuries decimated us, some of those mehs and OKs were very much in the good category. You're definitely taking a more critical view there. Each to their own.

 

Anyhow, signing almost an entire new squad must be hard. Let's see how he does with 3 or 4 key positions to fill this summer.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Guest

[DH1986]

10 minutes ago, sadj said:

Why? That summer transfer window was done bringing in players that Cathro wanted. Do you expect us to ship them out and bring in Levein players in August. Jesus H Christ. Please tell me you won’t ever be in control of finances at the club. You can’t count a window where all the recruitment for the whole season had been done. Callachan and McLoughlin came in both who provided success to differing degrees. Callachan whilst poor was a lesser Edwards but provided energy. McLoughlin after his mistake v Thistle was superb for us.

 

I won’t ever be in control of the finances at the club.

 

We managed to bring in 3 players that window after Cathro and only JM was a real success. 

 

The other her two played bit part roles but didn’t contribute enough over what was a month short of a full season.

 

The manager himself acknowledged this by continually telling us how frustrated he was was with Milinkovic for months on end and he also punted Callaghan at the earliest opportunity.

[mitch41]

4 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

I think he’s made a huge number of errors....too many ‘risks’ for my liking.

 

Last season :

 

Zlamal - Ok

Doyle - Pish

 

Hughes - Pish

Dunne - Good

Shaughnessy - Meh

Dikamona - Ok

 

Mitchell - Meh

Garrucio - Meh

Burns - Meh

 

Mulraney - Ok

Bozanic - Meh

Lee - Meh

Haring - Good

Edwards - Meh

Clare - Meh

 

McLean - Meh

Naismith - Good

Uche - Good

Wighton - Pish

Vanacek - Pish

 

It’s a poor return of good and ok signings from that amount of players.

 

A couple might be 50 50 but at the end of the last season you are right.

Yes too many of Levein’s signings have been very poor. Are we not only 

stuck with these poor signings is Levein going to make the same mistakes.

[DH1986]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Meh could mean anything - average? Not sure of difference between meh and OK. There are some outstanding signings in there. Naismith, Dunne and Haring are way above "good". Before injuries decimated us, some of those mehs and OKs were very much in the good category. You're definitely taking a more critical view there. Each to their own.

 

 

Ok.....

 

How many of those ‘meh’ players would you be bothered at leaving this window?

 

We need to start signing players we don’t want to stay longer than a season because they are difficult to replace.

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

I won’t ever be in control of the finances at the club.

 

We managed to bring in 3 players that window after Cathro and only JM was a real success. 

 

The other her two played bit part roles but didn’t contribute enough over what was a month short of a full season.

 

The manager himself acknowledged this by continually telling us how frustrated he was was with Milinkovic for months on end and he also punted Callaghan at the earliest opportunity.

 

And he was right on both counts. A lot of Hearts fans think Milinkovic should come back as one of our more entertaining players form the last wee while. Point is we'd already spent most of the budget hadn't we? Players like Berra and Lafferty don't come cheap.

[sadj]

Just now, DH1986 said:

 

I won’t ever be in control of the finances at the club.

 

We managed to bring in 3 players that window after Cathro and only JM was a real success. 

 

The other her two played bit part roles but didn’t contribute enough over what was a month short of a full season.

 

The manager himself acknowledged this by continually telling us how frustrated he was was with Milinkovic for months on end and he also punted Callaghan at the earliest opportunity.

Callachan provided something that wasn’t there under Cathro. You can’t twist and turn or move goalposts to suit. Going by your categorisation of players this year you are more fickle and less interested in backing the club through thick and thin than you used to be ? 

 

DM - i forgot - he was a player most would of wanted to stay , McLoughlin likewise , Callachan not a top 6 player but effective when we didn’t have a player like him through Cathro’s transfer activity.

 

After seeing your list of players this year though there is no point debating with you so ill leave ya too it

[DH1986]

Just now, ToqueJambo said:

 

And he was right on both counts. A lot of Hearts fans think Milinkovic should come back as one of our more entertaining players form the last wee while. Point is we'd already spent most of the budget hadn't we? Players like Berra and Lafferty don't come cheap.

 

There was clearly a budget to bring in three players.....only one made sustained contribution. The other two shows flashes.

 

It’s a poor ratio and when you look at the complete list from last season it’s a similar percentage of successful signings.

 

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

 

 

Ok.....

 

How many of those ‘meh’ players would you be bothered at leaving this window?

 

We need to start signing players we don’t want to stay longer than a season because they are difficult to replace.

 

 

I see most of the mehs (and a one of the pishes) as squad players and/or future prospects and so does Levein as we'll probably see next season. We entered the reserve league so signed more players than usual. Several are cheap, fairly solid low risk signings given their background and level. I'd argue Edwards, Bozanic, Garrucio and Clare did a job when called upon. Lee was good until the players around him started dropping like flies. McLean was signed as a sub and was forced into being our main striker. Again, I thought he linked up well with Nasmith and Uche until the latter two got injured.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

There was clearly a budget to bring in three players.....only one made sustained contribution. The other two shows flashes.

 

It’s a poor ratio and when you look at the complete list from last season it’s a similar percentage of successful signings.

 

 

 

We probably differ on what makes a successful signing. He was patching things up with what money he had left that season. I'd consider all three to be solid signings that each brought something different the team at that time lacked. 

 

Last season he was building a team where the whole is bigger than the parts, as well as beefing up the squad to take advantage of the reserve league (the likes of Wighton and Clare were signed expecting to play in the reserves for a while). Worked until the injuries but apparently they don't matter.

 

Apparently putting together a 13 or so unbeaten game run is dead easy, which is why no other manager outwit Celtic's managed it.

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Guest

[Jammy T]

It is always forgotten in debates about players and turnover that we were a club that was in the Championship just out of admin.

 

We had a low starting budget that would increase gradually as we stabilised and income increased. Our budget was also fixed. Therefore we started with kind of bargain basement signings - a lot of whom were risks because that was the market we were in - but we have eventually evolved into being able to sign internationalists and more establishes players.

 

This largely explains the large amount of signings as does the Cathro stint.

 

Its also another reason not to change manager at this time.

 

The squad absolutely does not need ripped up again - it simply needs around 4 proven high quality additions IMO

[DH1986]

12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I see most of the mehs (and a one of the pishes) as squad players and/or future prospects and so does Levein as we'll probably see next season. We entered the reserve league so signed more players than usual. Several are cheap, fairly solid low risk signings given their background and level. I'd argue Edwards, Bozanic, Garrucio and Clare did a job when called upon. Lee was good until the players around him started dropping like flies. McLean was signed as a sub and was forced into being our main striker. Again, I thought he linked up well with Nasmith and Uche until the latter two got injured.

 

Levein started the campaign with Bozanic and quickly removed him from the midfield and replaced him with a guy he signed as a centre half and he became a bit part player for the rest of the season.

 

The Edwards signing was a shambles and a waste of a wage. 

 

Garrucio is another CL quickly realised wasn’t up to speed which is why we played a right back and a winger at LB instead of him on countless occasions.

 

Lee started the season well but fell away badly. 

 

Same goes for McLean.

 

 

We could do with less risks and gambles and try sure and steady for a change.

 

I’d rather pay £4K a week to a good steady player than pay a couple of gambles £2k a week each......especially given the track record of these gambles over the past few years.

Edited June 2, 2019 by DH1986

[Enzo Chiefo]

27 minutes ago, sadj said:

Why? That summer transfer window was done bringing in players that Cathro wanted. Do you expect us to ship them out and bring in Levein players in August. Jesus H Christ. Please tell me you won’t ever be in control of finances at the club. You can’t count a window where all the recruitment for the whole season had been done. Callachan and McLoughlin came in both who provided success to differing degrees. Callachan whilst poor was a lesser Edwards but provided energy. McLoughlin after his mistake v Thistle was superb for us.

To be fair Sadj, the players that Cathro brought in included Michael Smith, Christophe Berra and Kyle Lafferty,  arguably 3 of our best post admin signings. Levein is still enjoying the benefit of those signings. He got a great goalie in Jon McLaughlin but the 2 this season have been found wanting.  Naismith was a good addition although I hope his propensity to break down is reflected in the money we invest in him. Some, like Haring, have been good signings too but others such as Amankwaa and Vanacek haven't even, supposedly,  been able to reach a level of fitness deemed acceptable. Very much a mixed bag and I think Levein has been cut an awful lot of slack by some on here.  Will be interesting to hear AB's "state of the nation" address tomorrow. 

[merseyjambo]

13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

And Milinkovic I think? Levein has his faults but his signings record isn't really one of them.

 

In terms of signing a proven international at a good age with huge ability, a great attitude and leadership qualities, Naismith is up there with someone like Takis Fyssis as one of our best signings in the last 15 years. Levein made that happen.

 

In terms of signing someone from virtually nowhere and turning him into a massive success story, Haring is up there with someone like Mike Galloway. Levein's work.

 

Even Mulraney could yet prove to be one of the best youngsters signed and improved by us in recent years.

 

As DoF, Sow, Pallardo, Zeefuik, Berra, Souttar, Lafferty, Djoum, Johnson (considering how well he's done in Netherlands) and Dunne were all outstanding signings.

 

You don’t half talk some guff to defend Levein. Haring was playing in second their in Austria. Galloway came from Non League. I suspect that the Austrian second tier is a better standard as their bigger teams have B teams in there. 

 

If you think his signings are a success then you really are deluded by him.

 

Mulraney has been poor to average most of the season. He’s played better last few weeks but he’s certainly no John Colquhoun or Neil McCann. He was highly rated at QPR and lost his way. Frustrating is the word I would use and I’d hardly call him a youngster either.

 

As to the other names. Pallardo got found out when we got promoted. He’s like Malaury Martin, good at a lower level. Helped us get out the division. Zeefuik, how much did we do to try and keep him. What sort of transfer fee did we get for him. That’s right, zero. He was given a 6 month deal then not resigned. Where has his career gone since then??? Great in the league we were in but would he have cut it in SPL, probably not. Berra and Lafferty were pros who knew the SPL. Berra wanted back for family reasons or possibly would have gone elsewhere. Lafferty needed us as much as we needed him. Good player in SPL and we got decent money for him. Souttar was a known quantity who had lost his way in the mess DUFC had become. 

 

You've highlighted 13 signings there, out of how many in 5 years. What about Sammon, Oshinawa, Martin, el Hassnoui, Anderson, Amankwa, Avlonitis, Chowlay, Norling, Bikey, Sowah, Struna, Swanson, Dauda, McLean

 

If I could be bothered looking back, I’m sure I could find more.

 

If you want to argue about signings and highlight the successes, be prepared to get the failures thrown back at you

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

To be fair Sadj, the players that Cathro brought in included Michael Smith, Christophe Berra and Kyle Lafferty,  arguably 3 of our best post admin signings. Levein is still enjoying the benefit of those signings. He got a great goalie in Jon McLaughlin but the 2 this season have been found wanting.  Naismith was a good addition although I hope his propensity to break down is reflected in the money we invest in him. Some, like Haring, have been good signings too but others such as Amankwaa and Vanacek haven't even, supposedly,  been able to reach a level of fitness deemed acceptable. Very much a mixed bag and I think Levein has been cut an awful lot of slack by some on here.  Will be interesting to hear AB's "state of the nation" address tomorrow. 

Yh not arguing that Enzo just to say he has had 4 windows imo is wrong when that summer transfer window was focussed on Cathro’s signings. So to say that one counts as CL came in at the end is unjust to me. I think we have a good squad but not enough first teamers. Hopefully this summer the whole solidity we have from the core of that will be added to with quality and the younger / recovering players have an extra year under their belts.

 

will be interesting 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

Levein started the campaign with Bozanic and quickly removed him from the midfield and replaced him with a guy he signed as a centre half and he became a bit part player for the rest of the season.

 

The Edwards signing was a shambles and a waste of a wage. 

 

Garrucio is another CL quickly realised wasn’t up to speed which is why we played a right back and a winger at LB instead of him on countless occasions.

 

Lee started the season well but fell away badly. 

 

Same goes for McLean.

 

 

We could do with less risks and gambles and try sure and steady for a change.

 

I’d rather pay £4K a week to a good steady player than pay a couple of gambles £2k a week each......especially given the track record of these gambles over the past few years.

 

Well we don't know what anyone's getting paid. Edwards looks useful and worth keeping based on his few performances so far. Players get signed and sent on loan or don't appear much all the time so the "waste of a wage" thing is silly. Not everyone in the squad can play!

 

As for Bozanic, so Levein streamlined and refined his team as the season progressed based on what he saw on the park and in training? Sounds like good management. I'm pretty sure Levein played around with the team during the LC group games - also good management IMO - and Haring was a first choice in midfield from the first league game anyhow?

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, merseyjambo said:

 

You don’t half talk some guff to defend Levein. Haring was playing in second their in Austria. Galloway came from Non League. I suspect that the Austrian second tier is a better standard as their bigger teams have B teams in there. 

 

If you think his signings are a success then you really are deluded by him.

 

Mulraney has been poor to average most of the season. He’s played better last few weeks but he’s certainly no John Colquhoun or Neil McCann. He was highly rated at QPR and lost his way. Frustrating is the word I would use and I’d hardly call him a youngster either.

 

As to the other names. Pallardo got found out when we got promoted. He’s like Malaury Martin, good at a lower level. Helped us get out the division. Zeefuik, how much did we do to try and keep him. What sort of transfer fee did we get for him. That’s right, zero. He was given a 6 month deal then not resigned. Where has his career gone since then??? Great in the league we were in but would he have cut it in SPL, probably not. Berra and Lafferty were pros who knew the SPL. Berra wanted back for family reasons or possibly would have gone elsewhere. Lafferty needed us as much as we needed him. Good player in SPL and we got decent money for him. Souttar was a known quantity who had lost his way in the mess DUFC had become. 

 

You've highlighted 13 signings there, out of how many in 5 years. What about Sammon, Oshinawa, Martin, el Hassnoui, Anderson, Amankwa, Avlonitis, Chowlay, Norling, Bikey, Sowah, Struna, Swanson, Dauda, McLean

 

If I could be bothered looking back, I’m sure I could find more.

 

If you want to argue about signings and highlight the successes, be prepared to get the failures thrown back at you

 

Stopped reading there. We got him in a swap deal for an injured Hearts youngster. I think your expectations might be a little high.

 

The successes outweigh the duds IMO. Always going to be a subjective thing though.

[JamboAl]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Stopped reading there. We got him in a swap deal for an injured Hearts youngster. I think your expectations might be a little high.

 

The successes outweigh the duds IMO. Always going to be a subjective thing though.

I think that where you're going wrong TJ is you aim your sights too low.  We should have been signing Ronaldo, Pique and Messi.

With the money we had left we could have signed Neymar Junior.

[DH1986]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Well we don't know what anyone's getting paid. Edwards looks useful and worth keeping based on his few performances so far. Players get signed and sent on loan or don't appear much all the time so the "waste of a wage" thing is silly. Not everyone in the squad can play!

 

As for Bozanic, so Levein streamlined and refined his team as the season progressed based on what he saw on the park and in training? Sounds like good management. I'm pretty sure Levein played around with the team during the LC group games - also good management IMO - and Haring was a first choice in midfield from the first league game anyhow?

 

 

We signed a player on a free and almost immediately shipped him out for a player who cost £150k....and tbh I don’t think we’d have been any worse off keeping Edwards and not bothering with Clare.

 

As for Bozanic......he lost his place in midfield to a defender. Does this constitute being a decent signing ? I would strongly argue against that tbh.

[merseyjambo]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Stopped reading there. We got him in a swap deal for an injured Hearts youngster. I think your expectations might be a little high.

 

The successes outweigh the duds IMO. Always going to be a subjective thing though.

 

Guys like Palladio and Zeefuik were good signings but I’d hardly call them outstanding 

 

I’m aware of how we got Mulraney but your claim about us having improved him is nonsense. He’s like Souttar. Highly rated as a youngster then lost his way. I’d not even argue that we’ve improved him. 

 

You our like to argue over selective points yet when someone takes on all of your post you only want to highlight areas where you think you can win instead of trying to defend some of the tosh you actually came out with

[merseyjambo]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I think that where you're going wrong TJ is you aim your sights too low.  We should have been signing Ronaldo, Pique and Messi.

With the money we had left we could have signed Neymar Junior.

 

Where am I advocating signing these players. 

 

Clearly the CL sycophants are out tonight. 

 

Considering the money we have spent on some of these players on wages, I’d say that it’s highly likely we could have got better value for money than Sammon, Martin and Oshinawa for a start 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

I think that where you're going wrong TJ is you aim your sights too low.  We should have been signing Ronaldo, Pique and Messi.

With the money we had left we could have signed Neymar Junior.

 

I still remember when we could have signed Maradona's brother  (or did I dream that?)

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Guys like Palladio and Zeefuik were good signings but I’d hardly call them outstanding 

 

I’m aware of how we got Mulraney but your claim about us having improved him is nonsense. He’s like Souttar. Highly rated as a youngster then lost his way. I’d not even argue that we’ve improved him. 

 

You our like to argue over selective points yet when someone takes on all of your post you only want to highlight areas where you think you can win instead of trying to defend some of the tosh you actually came out with

 

Happy to defend my tosh. Pallardo was a joy to watch with a great pedigree and did a great job. Zeefuik's goals saw us over the line. If scooshing the Championship was that easy, I guess Rangers, Hibs and D Utd all did it at the first attempt and in as competitive leagues? 

 

[RudiHMFC]

5 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Where am I advocating signing these players. 

 

Clearly the CL sycophants are out tonight. 

 

Considering the money we have spent on some of these players on wages, I’d say that it’s highly likely we could have got better value for money than Sammon, Martin and Oshinawa for a start 

 

His signings have been rank, so has the football. You only need to look at the league positions which make all of that crystal clear, no need to say anything else. 6th with 0gd followed by 6th with -8gd. Utter boring shite.

[Enzo Chiefo]

19 minutes ago, sadj said:

Yh not arguing that Enzo just to say he has had 4 windows imo is wrong when that summer transfer window was focussed on Cathro’s signings. So to say that one counts as CL came in at the end is unjust to me. I think we have a good squad but not enough first teamers. Hopefully this summer the whole solidity we have from the core of that will be added to with quality and the younger / recovering players have an extra year under their belts.

 

will be interesting 

Yes, will be interesting Sadj. Hopefully 1 or 2 of the youngsters will be able to cement a place in the team. I would expect Hickey to be sent out on loan,, to be honest.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

We signed a player on a free and almost immediately shipped him out for a player who cost £150k....and tbh I don’t think we’d have been any worse off keeping Edwards and not bothering with Clare.

 

As for Bozanic......he lost his place in midfield to a defender. Does this constitute being a decent signing ? I would strongly argue against that tbh.

 

All three of those players were squad players. They did a decent squad player job when I've watched them. I think Clare will be a good player for us. Edwards has energy we miss. We didn't know we were getting Naismith when we signed him. It's not a mystery why he went out on loan - he says he wanted to because Levein didn't see where he'd fit in after Naismith arrived. Good attitude for me. Bozanic I'm fine with as a fill-in.

[RudiHMFC]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Yes, will be interesting Sadj. Hopefully 1 or 2 of the youngsters will be able to cement a place in the team. I would expect Hickey to be sent out on loan,, to be honest.

 

Hickey will play against the old firm then won't be seen again for 6 weeks then appear in the team at Easter Road then vanish again until the next old firm game then play about 15 minutes of football the following the season.

[Enzo Chiefo]

13 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

We signed a player on a free and almost immediately shipped him out for a player who cost £150k....and tbh I don’t think we’d have been any worse off keeping Edwards and not bothering with Clare.

 

As for Bozanic......he lost his place in midfield to a defender. Does this constitute being a decent signing ? I would strongly argue against that tbh.

Edwards situation this season was bizarre to say the least. Sent out on loan, effectively frozen out on his return and then a mainstay for the last few games. Along with Vanacek  even Arthur C Clarke would struggle to come up with an explanation 

 

[JamboAl]

10 minutes ago, merseyjambo said:

 

Where am I advocating signing these players. 

 

Clearly the CL sycophants are out tonight. 

 

Considering the money we have spent on some of these players on wages, I’d say that it’s highly likely we could have got better value for money than Sammon, Martin and Oshinawa for a start 

So if people disagree with your negative views they must be CL sycophants.

The 3 signings you mention (and this has been covered hundreds of times) were the result of backing his H/Coaches who presumably saw them as beneficial to the style of play they wanted to implement.  I notice you did not mention the signings of Berra, McLaughlin etc.

You did not advocate signing big name players but you also seem to fail to recognise that 5 years ago we rose from the ashes with little or no financial muscle.  In that scenario we had to shop at the lower end of the market and that inevitably carried greater risk.

[Enzo Chiefo]

13 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

All three of those players were squad players. They did a decent squad player job when I've watched them. I think Clare will be a good player for us. Edwards has energy we miss. We didn't know we were getting Naismith when we signed him. It's not a mystery why he went out on loan - he says he wanted to because Levein didn't see where he'd fit in after Naismith arrived. Good attitude for me. Bozanic I'm fine with as a fill-in.

I can tell you,  where he would "fit in", after we signed Naismith. He would provide cover for a guy in his 30s with an injury history. Then, his energy "that we miss" wouldn't be missed.  Too simple, unless he had fallen out with CL of course??

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I can tell you,  where he would "fit in", after we signed Naismith. He would provide cover for a guy in his 30s with an injury history. Then, his energy "that we miss" wouldn't be missed.  Too simple, unless he had fallen out with CL of course??

1

Is that a question or an accusation you can substantiate?

[Guest]

Just now, Enzo Chiefo said:

I can tell you,  where he would "fit in", after we signed Naismith. He would provide cover for a guy in his 30s with an injury history. Then, his energy "that we miss" wouldn't be missed.  Too simple, unless he had fallen out with CL of course??

 

He's in the papers explaining why. 

 

"“When you get told you aren’t going to get game time, I took the opportunity to go elsewhere and play. In January, I really wanted to come back and try to force my way into the team."

 

By all accounts at the time Edwards was no great shakes in his reserve appearances. He's turned things around for now - good for him and us.

 

Ask Norwich fans about Naismith being paid a fortune by them to play for us. Every team signs players then things change.

[Enzo Chiefo]

3 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

Is that a question or an accusation you can substantiate?

As you are a doyen of questions Al, I think you'll appreciate the significance of the question marks I used.

[Enzo Chiefo]

2 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

He's in the papers explaining why. 

 

"“When you get told you aren’t going to get game time, I took the opportunity to go elsewhere and play. In January, I really wanted to come back and try to force my way into the team."

 

By all accounts at the time Edwards was no great shakes in his reserve appearances. He's turned things around for now - good for him and us.

 

Ask Norwich fans about Naismith being paid a fortune by them to play for us. Every team signs players then things change.

Which is why you should really have cover for most positions, especially centre mid.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Which is why you should really have cover for most positions, especially centre mid.

 

I believe when Levein realised he could get Clare things changed again as far as Edwards went. He saw him as someone to play with or backup Naismith. Cochrane would have been in his thoughts too. He may also have been thinking Djoum might have gone last summer. Who knows what's in Levein's head regarding signings and players but Edwards was a low risk signing and arguably an upgrade on someone like Callachan. If he'd had a crystal ball I'm sure Edwards and Keena would not have gone out on loan, and Lafferty would have been kept on.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

I believe when Levein realised he could get Clare things changed again as far as Edwards went. He saw him as someone to play with or backup Naismith. Cochrane would have been in his thoughts too. He may also have been thinking Djoum might have gone last summer. Who knows what's in Levein's head regarding signings and players but Edwards was a low risk signing and arguably an upgrade on someone like Callachan. If he'd had a crystal ball I'm sure Edwards and Keena would not have gone out on loan, and Lafferty would have been kept on.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say but I don't think Lafferty was ever going to last long after Levein took over. Doesn't fit the "identikit" character that he seems to look for, arguably though the kind of free thinker that wins games.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

I agree with a lot of what you say but I don't think Lafferty was ever going to last long after Levein took over. Doesn't fit the "identikit" character that he seems to look for, arguably though the kind of free thinker that wins games.

 

You say that but he still got 19 goals out of him and put faith in him in the bigger games. We got decent money for him and he's done nothing since.

[graygo]

If only Craig Levein had the same capacity for hindsight that some on this thread have.

 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by graygo

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, graygo said:

If only Craig Levein had the same capacity for hindsight that some on this thread have.

 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

As you are a doyen of questions Al, I think you'll appreciate the significance of the question marks I used.

I do appreciate the significance but wondered if it was the old Spencer "nod, nod, wink, wink" tactic.