5 Year plan - regressed.

[Hercules]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

In the same way that Levein cannot accept that football has changed since the 2000's, it seems that many fans cannot accept that society has changed since the 1970's.

 

Off-field the club is going great guns and increasing revenue on every front.

 

On-field it's a shambles with crap recruitment, crap tactics and crap coaches.

It’s as if most of the people on here only go to a handful of home games. It’s the only reason their opinions can be so blinded. No one is bigger than the club. People taking it personally when Budge and Levein get it in the neck is ridiculous. 

[Johnny Sandiego]

15 minutes ago, Gorillajam said:

Can't disagree with the OP too much. The recruitment has overall been very poor. Neilson did indeed land us a third place finish but The Rangers and Hibs were out of the equation - god knows what was going on at Dundee Utd that season. Levein was apparently in charge of recruitment and was a touchstone for Cathro during his helm - Levein is to blame for the recruitment in recent years. Personally I feel he's behind the times and hasn't realized football has moved on since the days of Mark De Vries and Ricardo Fuller - the game has evolved since the early 00's. Clearly the new stand and pitch have affected the playing budget.

 

Thankfully we are playing within our means now however we can no longer expect to return to the days of Romanov. Don't be disillusioned into thinking we are a decent side due to reaching the Scottish Cup final - I'v never know any club to have such good fortune in cup draws as we did this season. No offence to Kilmarnock and my intention is not to sound arrogant but we should never finish beneath them in the league - our playing budget is considerably greater. You can justify the OF, Hibs, Aberdeen and even Dundee Utd (once they regain SPL status) finishing above us. So long as we remain within our means/playing budget I can see us hovering around mid table obscurity with the occasional third or fourth finish.

I'd be interested to see how our annual turnover compares to the rest of the SPL as that holds an indication of where your clubs stands amongst the others.

 

I do believe Budge has stabilized the club and that for the foreseeable future we are financially secure without fear of an administration repeat. Remember Budge is only worth 30 million or so - don't expect vast amounts of investments being poured into the squad during her time here. I don't know if this is the case but Hibs seem to be investing more into their playing squad then ourselves. I was only reading today they hope to secure McNulty and McGeough - they've already secured the signature of both Allan and Jackson (albeit an unknown quantity). I'm also curious to see what Mark Ogren (Dundee Utd Chairman) will do for Utd. What type of financial backing he will be able to provide and their trajectory over the next several years. Aberdeen are finally being run appropriately after 20+ years of mismanagement and are hoping to increase their turnover to 20 million which in the immediate future I cannot see ourselves achieving. I don't disagree that the last 7 years have been incredibly frustrating however I'm personally happy our club still exists as it was only a few years ago I was fearing the worst.  

 

On the points in bold, you should probably take a look back at the last 25 years and count how many times we finished 3rd/4th. Its an avarage of every 3 seasons. The rest of the time we are mid-table obscurity as you put it. 

 

Ann Budge only invested in the club to initially save us from going under, and more recently to plug the gaps in the new stand. She was never intended to be a new Romanov.

 

And the last point on Hibs, its just completely inaccurate. They need a massive rebuild as they've milked the loan market dry for the past 3 or 4 years. They have already stated they will prodominantly be using the loan market again next season. We've spent the last 6 months tying up our key players on long term deals, with Naismith hopefully the next one. To even suggest they are investing more in their squad is just bonkers. 

[7628mm]

26 minutes ago, mscjambo said:

This stuff should go out in the season ticket packs..... renewals would fly out

 

[Texia]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Demanding success is healthy as long as the club maintains measured approach including not sacking their manager every season like say in the English Championship.

This is the key point that most of the "Levein out" brigade don't seem to understand, changing manager every season we perform poorly will do nothing for Heart of Midlothian in the long term.

 

Chopping and changing managers has never and will never bring long term success to any club.

 

As long as there are signs of improvement each season, which there have been this season before varying circumstances took their toll, then there is no point in disrupting the managers plans.

 

Since the season fell off a cliff results haven't been good enough and there have been some shockers but overall we are a better team than we were last season and will be a better team next season than we have been this season.

[cosanostra]

2 minutes ago, Texia said:

This is the key point that most of the "Levein out" brigade don't seem to understand, changing manager every season we perform poorly will do nothing for Heart of Midlothian in the long term.

 

Has anyone ever suggested this or are you wilfully misrepresenting the views of those who want a fresh start with some new coaching ideas?

[sadj]

Just now, cosanostra said:

 

Has anyone ever suggested this or are you wilfully misrepresenting the views of those who want a fresh start with some new coaching ideas?

 

Plenty have suggested this. It then becomes oh but 1980s it was ok to give a manager time now its not. Often when asked why it was ok then its not now the response becomes personal abuse not a sensible response.

 

Whole thread is madness but hilarious reading , its almost as good as my mate getting his twitter locked for contravening the rules against hateful conduct for responding to sajidjavid comments on Scotland yesterday by calling him a skank and an untrustworthy fugly slut....?

[alwaysthereinspirit]

12 hours ago, UcheGang said:

 

Now that the season is officially over and we're now at the end of the five year plan, it's open season on the club as far as I'm concerned.  As gutted as I am at losing at the weekend I am not prepared to get emotional and irrational.  Now is the time to put the club under the microscope and ask just what the **** is exactly going on.  A few points to update first and foremost.

 

 

Playing record and performances

 

Adding in the fixtures played (and inevitably lost) since the initial post, our league record against the other sides in the top six since we cam back up now reads as

 

Aberdeen - Played 16, won 5, drew 3, lost 8

 

Celtic - Played 16, won 2, drew 2, lost 12

 

Rangers - Played 12, won 2, drew 1, lost 9

 

Hibs - Played 8, won 2, drew 3, lost 3

 

Kilmarnock - Played 14, won 5, drew 4, lost 5

 

Total - Played 66, won 16, drew 13, lost 37

 

It's a 56% loss record against our five nearest rivals.  Every single team has a better head to head record against us with the exception of Kilmarnock who we are level with, however they have a budget a fraction the size of ours.  It is absolutely pathetic.

 

The derby record

 

Since stealing a draw at Easter Road last month, the derby record now reads played 17, won 4, drew 7 and lost 6 during the Budge/Levein era.  Four derbies won in 17 games.  Just four in five years.  A win percentage of 23% in that time.  It is totally unacceptable.

 

We've finished below Hibs two seasons in a row for the first time in 25 years.  Hibs had their best run against us since the 70s.  They finally beat us at Tynecastle for the first time in five or six years.  Hibs have had more season of European football than us these last five years.  All of these record breaking feats have happened under the stewardship of Levein and Budge.  It's a rivalry, we have to strive to be better than them in every single thing that we do and the owner doesn't give a **** about it one jot.

 

League position

 

We finished third when we first came back up.  Then we finished fifth under Cathro and then Levein has lead us to two successive sixth place finishes.  How can nobody at the club see a quite obvious dramatic decline?  How can anyone at the club deem it acceptable to not improve on or maintain a decent league position?  Any other club in the country the management would be emptied for similar performances.  Why does the owner think this is acceptable?  Levein has yet to finish higher in the league than the much derided Cathro yet Budge is given him a free reign to do whatever the **** he wants.  To have Hibs finish above us twice in a row is a digrace but then teams Like Kilmarnock who are a club a fraction of the size of us is a disgrace.

 

Budge's contempt

 

I'm getting really hacked off with her quite obvious contempt of the fans and thinking we zip up the back.  There was the article someone linked at the weekend - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48389296 - and it's quite staggering how little she thinks of the fans.  Her telling people that Levein isn't bombproof when the evidence suggests otherwise is staggering.  Her comments about fans never accepting Levein even if he won us a treble of our own show she's just not living in the real world.  It's almost a "you don't know what you're talking about, give me the cash and I'll do as I please".  She talks about how she's received some small level of abuse from fans in the stand during games.  She's going to be in for a shock next season in that case.  It's going to get a whole lot worse.   If next season is anything like this season - and the evidence suggests it will be, if not worse - the abuse from the stands will magnify big time.  There has been absolutely no update on season ticket sales, they're clearly nowhere near previous levels.  She's refusing to see the obvious.

 

This is the same Ann Budge who allowed the war memorial to be trivialised and milked for all its worth.  It was pointed out to me yesterday (and I'd forgotten all about this to be honest) that when Cathro was binned, Budge ****ed off on holiday!  Instead of hanging around to help appoint a manager, she disappeared and then opted to appoint the man who was along the corridor.  It's staggering the way she views the fans as customers.  Lecturing fans at every junction, moaning like **** because fans misbehaved and holding us responsible because she is choosing to install a CCTV system for six figures.  But to then accuse the fans of costing the club money, when she has signed off and sanctioned the signing of so many duds under her tenure is embarrassing.  We must have wasted literally millions in terms of wages and transfer fees on some of the donkeys we've had and yet she points the finger at the fans?  The same fans who have constantly and persistently been asked to dig deep and put their hands in their pockets to fund and bail out he club.  The same fans milked for every penny with countless tribute tops and the God awful cash cow embarrassment.  Don't accuse the fans of costing the club money when you've spunked so much of it on utter rubbish.  To guilt trip the fans because yet again, she is choosing to buy some CCTV worth over 100k is embarrassing.  Don't go and recruit a manager for the women's team from one of the biggest clubs in the world and yet when it comes to the men's team - the one everyone actually pays to see and brings us in money - just knock on Levein's door down the corridor.

 

Recruitment 

 

Everyone knows its been a shambles but I'm already concerned to hear both Levein and Budge state there won't be many changes during the summer and we won't be bringing in too many players.  We've got a tonne of dead wood that need emptied and we're at least a forward, a creative midfield, one possibly two wingers, a centre back and a keeper away from being a decent side.  We might have some youngsters coming through and maybe Levein's plan is to chuck them all in next season but I've zero confidence in him managing them properly.

 

Summary

 

The club is sleeping walking its way into further disaster.  There an similarities between when Cathro should have been emptied after his first season but was allowed the entire summer and leage cup matches to turn it around and he ****ed that up, so we ruined that entire pre-season.  If Levein isn't bombproof like Budge suggests, at what point does she pull the trigger and bin him?  How bad does it have to get for her to say enough is enough?  Are we letting Levein plan for the summer and **** up pre-season only to sack him in September?  How many times are we going to roll the dice and risk season after season, another season written off before it gets going.  We're at risk of history repeating itself.

 

 

We're entering the sixth year under Budge and Levein.  They have failed to deliver on almost every single promise they made.  We've blown and are continuing to blow the opportunity handed to us all because Levein and Budge are too stubborn to do anything about it.  It's going to be a long and grim summer ahead, starting with the tragic league cup group stages.  Can't wait.

 

Seen this wonderfully summed up on the supporters page on FB and it's hard to disagree with anything.

 

truly harrowing when put in black and white.

 

 

 

 

Game of Throne directors/producers could have used a writer like you for the last few episodes. Brilliant. 

Not.

[cosanostra]

Just now, sadj said:

 

Plenty have suggested this. It then becomes oh but 1980s it was ok to give a manager time now its not. Often when asked why it was ok then its not now the response becomes personal abuse not a sensible response.

 

Whole thread is madness but hilarious reading , its almost as good as my mate getting his twitter locked for contravening the rules against hateful conduct for responding to sajidjavid comments on Scotland yesterday by calling him a skank and an untrustworthy fugly slut....?

 

Who suggested that we change the manager every poor season?  Must have missed that. Apologies if i did.

[Mikey1874]

It would be good to get to a core of really reliable players.

 

We did finish the season with teams filled with a lot of inexperienced players. Mulraney, Clare, Uche, Wighton as well as Brandon, Morrison, Burns. 

 

Don't count Cochrane and Hickey as they can go straight in as very confident players. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Wilson]

Did the "5 year plan" include a new stand? Not sure it did.

 

OP concentrates on all the negatives. My glass is half full however, and look at the standard of kid coming through, the increased revenue from the stand, and signing of Naismith. ( for example)

 

Improvement doesn't always result from replacing managers. Of course results and style of play must improve, but  don't you think AB and CL know that.  And the attack on AB is just wrong( not that she's faultless).

 

Six Premier managers left mid season in 18/19- how many clubs improved? Maybe Hamilton, maybe Hibs, but no-one else. Not a great hit rate.

 

[Mikey1874]

13 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

Who suggested that we change the manager every poor season?  Must have missed that. Apologies if i did.

 

You missed all the people wanting Levein out last year and this sesson?

 

People wanted Cathro out and a lot of people wanted Neilson out for negative football and losing to Hibs in Cup. 

 

People certainly wanted McGlynn out and Locke didn't have many supporters. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Mikey1874

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

Who suggested that we change the manager every poor season?  Must have missed that. Apologies if i did.

Few people have although it seems more angles at we should be binning any manager that is finishing sixth etc against the competition as its settling for mediocrity

Just now, Wilson said:

Did the "5 year plan" include a new stand? Not sure it did.

 

OP concentrates on all the negatives. My glass is half full however, and look at the standard of kid coming through, the increased revenue from the stand, and signing of Naismith. ( for example)

 

Improvement doesn't always result from replacing managers. Of course results and style of play must improve, but  don't you think AB and CL know that.  And the attack on AB is just wrong( not that she's faultless).

 

Six Premier managers left mid season in 18/19- how many clubs improved? Maybe Hamilton, maybe Hibs, but no-one else. Not a great hit rate.

 

5 year plan only stated what I copy and pasted from it yesterday about rebuilding infrastructure there is as a poster pointed out a potential to include in that a youth to first team set up but that is not really a thing you can do in 3-5 years from scratch but within that we have Cochrane , McDonald , Smith , Morrison and Hickey plus younger players we have brought in. 

 

So really beating the club with the 5year plan is as ignorant as people claim that we all are for seeing we aren’t good enough on the pitch just now but not mashing our hands off the keyboard.

[Texia]

7 minutes ago, cosanostra said:

 

Has anyone ever suggested this or are you wilfully misrepresenting the views of those who want a fresh start with some new coaching ideas?

Maybe I worded that incorrectly, most haven't given it till the end of the season each bad result or game we should have won but didn't since Levein took over has been met with a 'Leveins time is up' thread.

 

Neilson after a few bad results in the top league and Cathro both got very little time from the same section of supporters once results weren't as rosy as the championship season.

 

Levein has also had a mountain to climb with some since he was appointed in 2014, but that is another argument.

[Gorillajam]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sandiego said:

 

On the points in bold, you should probably take a look back at the last 25 years and count how many times we finished 3rd/4th. Its an avarage of every 3 seasons. The rest of the time we are mid-table obscurity as you put it. 

 

Ann Budge only invested in the club to initially save us from going under, and more recently to plug the gaps in the new stand. She was never intended to be a new Romanov.

 

And the last point on Hibs, its just completely inaccurate. They need a massive rebuild as they've milked the loan market dry for the past 3 or 4 years. They have already stated they will prodominantly be using the loan market again next season. We've spent the last 6 months tying up our key players on long term deals, with Naismith hopefully the next one. To even suggest they are investing more in their squad is just bonkers. 

 

I'm referring to the future. I don't anticipate us to achieve that as regularly as we did over the last 25 years. There is a very clear and evident decline in Aberdeen's league standings and lack of trophy achievements during the last 25 years - Stewart Milne took over from Dick Donald and they collapsed. The last 25 years (since 1998 when Milne took over) are historically their worst - I believe in that time they have finished 3rd once with a few 4th placed finishes/ I recall a few cup finals and I believe they reached the last 32 of the Europa League. The demise of Rangers and the exclusion of ourselves, Utd and Hibs have allowed them to re-establish themselves. Had Aberdeen been run appropriately from 1998 I would argue Aberdeen and ourselves would have consistently been vying for that third spot. My argument is that they are our main rivals going forward and that they are back in the picture - simply put they are being run properly for the first time in 20 odd years. You also cannot discount Dundee Utd and Hibs who will also provide strong competition for that third/ fourth spots most years. 

 

Regarding Budge, everyone knows she is not a cash cow and that unlike the Romanov days we aren't going to be reverting back to those financial exploits. I've read several posts moaning about the recruitment and the lack of investment into the first team. Unfortunately I don't expect much improvement on that front as we are playing within our means.

 

The final point, I did actually indicate that I don't know if Hibs are spending more on their squad however the current crop of players they are reported to be interested in won't be cheap. Allan, McGeough and McNulty would be on decent wages if they were to sign. Obviously Naismith would be a counter argument to that.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Groot said:

 Did I say we should beat Celtic? No, however they are our rivals always have been always will be

 

The original post compared the head to head record. 

 

So in the context of the thread yes. 

 

Keep up. 

 

I'd like to think celtic are our rivals but they are that far ahead we aren't. 

 

Aberdeen, hibs, Killie and rangers, along with  motherwell and St Johnstone are far closer and are rivals for whatever scraps Come from the celtic table. 

 

Are Aberdeen and Hibs our rivals? Cannae be they aren't in our song. 

 

They are in our song... 

???

 

Made me laugh. 

Best argument I've heard yet to beat CL / the club around the head with. 

 

Fits in with the op tho, Absolute slavers. 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by Olly Lee's left boot

[mitch41]

12 hours ago, UcheGang said:

 

Now that the season is officially over and we're now at the end of the five year plan, it's open season on the club as far as I'm concerned.  As gutted as I am at losing at the weekend I am not prepared to get emotional and irrational.  Now is the time to put the club under the microscope and ask just what the **** is exactly going on.  A few points to update first and foremost.

 

 

Playing record and performances

 

Adding in the fixtures played (and inevitably lost) since the initial post, our league record against the other sides in the top six since we cam back up now reads as

 

Aberdeen - Played 16, won 5, drew 3, lost 8

 

Celtic - Played 16, won 2, drew 2, lost 12

 

Rangers - Played 12, won 2, drew 1, lost 9

 

Hibs - Played 8, won 2, drew 3, lost 3

 

Kilmarnock - Played 14, won 5, drew 4, lost 5

 

Total - Played 66, won 16, drew 13, lost 37

 

It's a 56% loss record against our five nearest rivals.  Every single team has a better head to head record against us with the exception of Kilmarnock who we are level with, however they have a budget a fraction the size of ours.  It is absolutely pathetic.

 

The derby record

 

Since stealing a draw at Easter Road last month, the derby record now reads played 17, won 4, drew 7 and lost 6 during the Budge/Levein era.  Four derbies won in 17 games.  Just four in five years.  A win percentage of 23% in that time.  It is totally unacceptable.

 

We've finished below Hibs two seasons in a row for the first time in 25 years.  Hibs had their best run against us since the 70s.  They finally beat us at Tynecastle for the first time in five or six years.  Hibs have had more season of European football than us these last five years.  All of these record breaking feats have happened under the stewardship of Levein and Budge.  It's a rivalry, we have to strive to be better than them in every single thing that we do and the owner doesn't give a **** about it one jot.

 

League position

 

We finished third when we first came back up.  Then we finished fifth under Cathro and then Levein has lead us to two successive sixth place finishes.  How can nobody at the club see a quite obvious dramatic decline?  How can anyone at the club deem it acceptable to not improve on or maintain a decent league position?  Any other club in the country the management would be emptied for similar performances.  Why does the owner think this is acceptable?  Levein has yet to finish higher in the league than the much derided Cathro yet Budge is given him a free reign to do whatever the **** he wants.  To have Hibs finish above us twice in a row is a digrace but then teams Like Kilmarnock who are a club a fraction of the size of us is a disgrace.

 

Budge's contempt

 

I'm getting really hacked off with her quite obvious contempt of the fans and thinking we zip up the back.  There was the article someone linked at the weekend - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48389296 - and it's quite staggering how little she thinks of the fans.  Her telling people that Levein isn't bombproof when the evidence suggests otherwise is staggering.  Her comments about fans never accepting Levein even if he won us a treble of our own show she's just not living in the real world.  It's almost a "you don't know what you're talking about, give me the cash and I'll do as I please".  She talks about how she's received some small level of abuse from fans in the stand during games.  She's going to be in for a shock next season in that case.  It's going to get a whole lot worse.   If next season is anything like this season - and the evidence suggests it will be, if not worse - the abuse from the stands will magnify big time.  There has been absolutely no update on season ticket sales, they're clearly nowhere near previous levels.  She's refusing to see the obvious.

 

This is the same Ann Budge who allowed the war memorial to be trivialised and milked for all its worth.  It was pointed out to me yesterday (and I'd forgotten all about this to be honest) that when Cathro was binned, Budge ****ed off on holiday!  Instead of hanging around to help appoint a manager, she disappeared and then opted to appoint the man who was along the corridor.  It's staggering the way she views the fans as customers.  Lecturing fans at every junction, moaning like **** because fans misbehaved and holding us responsible because she is choosing to install a CCTV system for six figures.  But to then accuse the fans of costing the club money, when she has signed off and sanctioned the signing of so many duds under her tenure is embarrassing.  We must have wasted literally millions in terms of wages and transfer fees on some of the donkeys we've had and yet she points the finger at the fans?  The same fans who have constantly and persistently been asked to dig deep and put their hands in their pockets to fund and bail out he club.  The same fans milked for every penny with countless tribute tops and the God awful cash cow embarrassment.  Don't accuse the fans of costing the club money when you've spunked so much of it on utter rubbish.  To guilt trip the fans because yet again, she is choosing to buy some CCTV worth over 100k is embarrassing.  Don't go and recruit a manager for the women's team from one of the biggest clubs in the world and yet when it comes to the men's team - the one everyone actually pays to see and brings us in money - just knock on Levein's door down the corridor.

 

Recruitment 

 

Everyone knows its been a shambles but I'm already concerned to hear both Levein and Budge state there won't be many changes during the summer and we won't be bringing in too many players.  We've got a tonne of dead wood that need emptied and we're at least a forward, a creative midfield, one possibly two wingers, a centre back and a keeper away from being a decent side.  We might have some youngsters coming through and maybe Levein's plan is to chuck them all in next season but I've zero confidence in him managing them properly.

 

Summary

 

The club is sleeping walking its way into further disaster.  There an similarities between when Cathro should have been emptied after his first season but was allowed the entire summer and leage cup matches to turn it around and he ****ed that up, so we ruined that entire pre-season.  If Levein isn't bombproof like Budge suggests, at what point does she pull the trigger and bin him?  How bad does it have to get for her to say enough is enough?  Are we letting Levein plan for the summer and **** up pre-season only to sack him in September?  How many times are we going to roll the dice and risk season after season, another season written off before it gets going.  We're at risk of history repeating itself.

 

 

We're entering the sixth year under Budge and Levein.  They have failed to deliver on almost every single promise they made.  We've blown and are continuing to blow the opportunity handed to us all because Levein and Budge are too stubborn to do anything about it.  It's going to be a long and grim summer ahead, starting with the tragic league cup group stages.  Can't wait.

 

Seen this wonderfully summed up on the supporters page on FB and it's hard to disagree with anything.

 

truly harrowing when put in black and white.

 

 

 

 

I’m  sure Ann Budge would of acted before now if it was her IT Business she had before she sold it for million’s. Ann Budge has been very quiet on the subject of our team and it’s performance this season and she must be worried about where the team is going under the management of Craig Levein. She has to start acting more on the direction of our team and she can’t ignore the way many fans feel about Levein’s management. Who on the board has the same concerns as many fans who want a change in management ? Who if any are able to tell Ann how many fans feel about Levein ? You know it may be the case that the only person Ann and her board listen too is Craig Levein ! I wonder how good that is for Hearts Football Club, frightening isn’t it.

[Groot]

11 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

The original post compared the head to head record. 

 

So in the context of the thread yes. 

 

Keep up. 

 

I'd like to think celtic are our rivals but they are that far ahead we aren't. 

 

Aberdeen, hibs, Killie and rangers, along with  motherwell and St Johnstone are far closer and are rivals for whatever scraps Come from the celtic table. 

 

Are Aberdeen and Hibs our rivals? Cannae be they aren't in our song. 

 

They are in our song... 

???

 

Made me laugh. 

Best argument I've heard yet to beat CL / the club around the head with. 

 

Fits in with the op tho, Absolute slavers. 

 

What are you talking about? I was stating that I consider Celtic as rivals and as an aside stated they are mentioned as such in the club song and that’s what you choose to focus on?

 

yes Celtic have more money but as we have proven time and again on our day against them or Rangers no matter the strength of their team or the weakness of ours we can beat them. Not consistently but we can do it, the way you talk is that when Celtic come to town we just raise the white flags bend over and take it, that’s not the Hearts I grew up with. Yeah we’ve been heavily beaten on many occasions but I won’t give up before a ball is kicked no matter how unlikely I believe a result is.

[OmiyaHearts]

13 hours ago, Bad Religion said:

“I am not prepared to get emotional and irrational”

 

Had a laugh at that, especially after reading things like 'absolutely pathetic', 'contempt' & 'truly harrowing'.

Edited May 31, 2019 by OmiyaHearts

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Groot said:

What are you talking about? I was stating that I consider Celtic as rivals and as an aside stated they are mentioned as such in the club song and that’s what you choose to focus on?

 

yes Celtic have more money but as we have proven time and again on our day against them or Rangers no matter the strength of their team or the weakness of ours we can beat them. Not consistently but we can do it, the way you talk is that when Celtic come to town we just raise the white flags bend over and take it, that’s not the Hearts I grew up with. Yeah we’ve been heavily beaten on many occasions but I won’t give up before a ball is kicked no matter how unlikely I believe a result is.

 

 

We're on different wave lengths-

 

I posted in response to a poster putting up the head to head record. 

 

I gave it some context, with spends etc. 

 

You came in waffling about songs and such. 

?

 

[graygo]

1 hour ago, Gorillajam said:

 

I'm referring to the future. I don't anticipate us to achieve that as regularly as we did over the last 25 years. There is a very clear and evident decline in Aberdeen's league standings and lack of trophy achievements during the last 25 years - Stewart Milne took over from Dick Donald and they collapsed. The last 25 years (since 1998 when Milne took over) are historically their worst - I believe in that time they have finished 3rd once with a few 4th placed finishes/ I recall a few cup finals and I believe they reached the last 32 of the Europa League. The demise of Rangers and the exclusion of ourselves, Utd and Hibs have allowed them to re-establish themselves. Had Aberdeen been run appropriately from 1998 I would argue Aberdeen and ourselves would have consistently been vying for that third spot. My argument is that they are our main rivals going forward and that they are back in the picture - simply put they are being run properly for the first time in 20 odd years. You also cannot discount Dundee Utd and Hibs who will also provide strong competition for that third/ fourth spots most years. 

 

Regarding Budge, everyone knows she is not a cash cow and that unlike the Romanov days we aren't going to be reverting back to those financial exploits. I've read several posts moaning about the recruitment and the lack of investment into the first team. Unfortunately I don't expect much improvement on that front as we are playing within our means.

 

The final point, I did actually indicate that I don't know if Hibs are spending more on their squad however the current crop of players they are reported to be interested in won't be cheap. Allan, McGeough and McNulty would be on decent wages if they were to sign. Obviously Naismith would be a counter argument to that.

 

Belter.   

[Homme]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You missed all the people wanting Levein out last year and this sesson?

 

People wanted Cathro out and a lot of people wanted Neilson out for negative football and losing to Hibs in Cup. 

 

People certainly wanted McGlynn out and Locke didn't have many supporters. 

 

Exactly.

 

In other words, some folk are never happy despite the club performing at the level it has always performed at. 

[JamboAl]

13 hours ago, UcheGang said:

 

Now that the season is officially over and we're now at the end of the five year plan, it's open season on the club as far as I'm concerned.  As gutted as I am at losing at the weekend I am not prepared to get emotional and irrational.  Now is the time to put the club under the microscope and ask just what the **** is exactly going on.  A few points to update first and foremost.

 

 

 

1

Can you post a link to the5 year plan?

[martoon]

3 hours ago, cosanostra said:

 

Has anyone ever suggested this or are you wilfully misrepresenting the views of those who want a fresh start with some new coaching ideas?

 

Many of the pro-Levein punters like to do that. Just as quick, too, at insinuating we're all lying about the opinions we hear loud and clear at games, in the boozer, and from friends and family. All imaginary or talking to ourselves in the mirror, apparently. 

 

Craig Levein's record of non success, turgid football and clueless tactics is far more compelling than the "patience, long term, never, never" that they, and CL/Ann, advocate.

 

 

 

[Vlad Magic]

2 hours ago, mitch41 said:

I’m  sure Ann Budge would of acted before now if it was her IT Business she had before she sold it for million’s. Ann Budge has been very quiet on the subject of our team and it’s performance this season and she must be worried about where the team is going under the management of Craig Levein. She has to start acting more on the direction of our team and she can’t ignore the way many fans feel about Levein’s management. Who on the board has the same concerns as many fans who want a change in management ? Who if any are able to tell Ann how many fans feel about Levein ? You know it may be the case that the only person Ann and her board listen too is Craig Levein ! I wonder how good that is for Hearts Football Club, frightening isn’t it.

 

I suggest you email the club with these questions.

 

You are more likely to get a qualified response. 

[SpruceBringsteen]

6 hours ago, martoon said:

 

As suggested in the post, SB. It seems a decent Cup final performance, and a defeat, is enough to convince some that we're heading in the right direction. 

 

I find it depressing that mediocrity is being embraced. 

 

Dunno that I saw anyone say that tbh. What I will say is that, as someone who wants a new boss, these relentless threads day after day, hour after hour, are making me hope he signs a lifetime contract just to make some heads explode. It's maybe time to give it a rest.

[martoon]

1 minute ago, SpruceBringsteen said:

 

Dunno that I saw anyone say that tbh. What I will say is that, as someone who wants a new boss, these relentless threads day after day, hour after hour, are making me hope he signs a lifetime contract just to make some heads explode. It's maybe time to give it a rest.

 

Both sides? 

 

If so, you may have a point. 

[JamboAl]

Still no link to the 5 year plan?

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Does it matter. They beat what was in front of them. Their name is on the trophy 10 times. Ours 8. Queens Park are only 7 years older than Hearts.

 

 

Craig's fault. 

100%

 

He should have founded Hearts earlier. 

Dick that he is. 

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Wilson said:

Did the "5 year plan" include a new stand? Not sure it did.

 

OP concentrates on all the negatives. My glass is half full however, and look at the standard of kid coming through, the increased revenue from the stand, and signing of Naismith. ( for example)

 

Improvement doesn't always result from replacing managers. Of course results and style of play must improve, but  don't you think AB and CL know that.  And the attack on AB is just wrong( not that she's faultless).

 

Six Premier managers left mid season in 18/19- how many clubs improved? Maybe Hamilton, maybe Hibs, but no-one else. Not a great hit rate.

 

Hibs have won 3 of their last 11 games I think. Hardly improvement. Initial new manager boost but that’s it. 

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Gorillajam said:

 

I'm referring to the future. I don't anticipate us to achieve that as regularly as we did over the last 25 years. There is a very clear and evident decline in Aberdeen's league standings and lack of trophy achievements during the last 25 years - Stewart Milne took over from Dick Donald and they collapsed. The last 25 years (since 1998 when Milne took over) are historically their worst - I believe in that time they have finished 3rd once with a few 4th placed finishes/ I recall a few cup finals and I believe they reached the last 32 of the Europa League. The demise of Rangers and the exclusion of ourselves, Utd and Hibs have allowed them to re-establish themselves. Had Aberdeen been run appropriately from 1998 I would argue Aberdeen and ourselves would have consistently been vying for that third spot. My argument is that they are our main rivals going forward and that they are back in the picture - simply put they are being run properly for the first time in 20 odd years. You also cannot discount Dundee Utd and Hibs who will also provide strong competition for that third/ fourth spots most years. 

 

Regarding Budge, everyone knows she is not a cash cow and that unlike the Romanov days we aren't going to be reverting back to those financial exploits. I've read several posts moaning about the recruitment and the lack of investment into the first team. Unfortunately I don't expect much improvement on that front as we are playing within our means.

 

The final point, I did actually indicate that I don't know if Hibs are spending more on their squad however the current crop of players they are reported to be interested in won't be cheap. Allan, McGeough and McNulty would be on decent wages if they were to sign. Obviously Naismith would be a counter argument to that.

They just released 17 players so they have freed up a lot of payroll 

[SpruceBringsteen]

58 minutes ago, martoon said:

Both sides? 

 

If so, you may have a point. 

 

Absolutely. It's like watching Rangers and Celtic fans howling at each other all day when the only argument either has is "NO, YOU ARE". It's no for me.

[Notts1874]

Right own up. Who are the plants from the club that are all over this thread? I read it somewhere so it must be true.

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, mitch41 said:

I’m  sure Ann Budge would of acted before now if it was her IT Business she had before she sold it for million’s. Ann Budge has been very quiet on the subject of our team and it’s performance this season and she must be worried about where the team is going under the management of Craig Levein. She has to start acting more on the direction of our team and she can’t ignore the way many fans feel about Levein’s management. Who on the board has the same concerns as many fans who want a change in management ? Who if any are able to tell Ann how many fans feel about Levein ? You know it may be the case that the only person Ann and her board listen too is Craig Levein ! I wonder how good that is for Hearts Football Club, frightening isn’t it.

Did you work for her IT business or know someone who was involved in running it? 

Rest of your post is just supposition and silly. 

[Mikey1874]

The announcement of there being a plan

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/ann-budge-statement

[Beast Boy]

6 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Right own up. Who are the plants from the club that are all over this thread? I read it somewhere so it must be true.

 

I’m one apparently. Im a nice maroon coloured fern.

[Bull's-eye]

2 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

I’m one apparently. Im a nice maroon coloured fern.

 

You're lucky, I'm Craig Levein and a Hibby.

 

Sleepless nights ??

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

You're lucky, I'm Craig Levein and a Hibby.

 

Sleepless nights ??

 

Indeed. I remember both these allegations. Especially like the Hibs one. What was it again:

 

Oliver Twist... please may I have some more... begging bowl... Hibs?

 

Couldn’t possibly just be that people have different opinions... nah! 

[mitch41]

12 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Did you work for her IT business or know someone who was involved in running it? 

Rest of your post is just supposition and silly. 

So i’m a silly billy am I ! Well I only post what i know through experience.

[JamboAl]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The announcement of there being a plan

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/ann-budge-statement

So, it was a 3-5 year plan to revamp commercial activities.  Few will disagree she has done that.

That renders this whole thread null and void.

[steven_mck]

For all her faults, I still think she's the right and best possible owner, at least until the handover to FOH. Everyone can see the good work off the park.

[Alex Kintner]

5 hours ago, sadj said:

 

Plenty have suggested this. It then becomes oh but 1980s it was ok to give a manager time now its not. Often when asked why it was ok then its not now the response becomes personal abuse not a sensible response.

 

Whole thread is madness but hilarious reading , its almost as good as my mate getting his twitter locked for contravening the rules against hateful conduct for responding to sajidjavid comments on Scotland yesterday by calling him a skank and an untrustworthy fugly slut....?

 

I’ve made this point before but we stuck by MacDonald in the 80s after just as poor a record as Levein has and look at the rewards we got ??

[Finlay James]

What a load of pish ??

 

OP, if you're going to write this stuff, at least have a slight idea of what you're talking about.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, steven_mck said:

For all her faults, I still think she's the right and best possible owner, at least until the handover to FOH. Everyone can see the good work off the park.

 

Not everyone. Some people call her a greedy granny, make lewd allegations of improper relationships with our manager, edit photos to put her in rifle crosshairs, allege nepotism in the stand construction process, imply she’s making money out of Hearts, and say that she doesn’t understand what being a football fan is all about. ?

[Mikey1874]

5 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

So, it was a 3-5 year plan to revamp commercial activities.  Few will disagree she has done that.

That renders this whole thread null and void.

 

And a new stand 

[Beast Boy]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

And a new stand 

 

Obviously a Hibs fan or a club plant has went back and changed that article. 

[Jammy T]

8 hours ago, Jodami said:

You need to put different eras in context. Pre Macdonald and Jardine we were a genuine yo yo team so actually slowly building in the premier league was a big step up. Mercer took a good while to get the club back on an even keel. 

People are frustrated now because the club is on an even keel but the football side has stagnated.

The subject of season ticket renewal is a completely different ball game now as well. Most people never had season tickets in the 80s, it was predominantly walk ups because you could still stand beside your mates. Now if you want to do that it makes more sense to buy a season ticket. 

 

Put eras into context?

 

5 years ago we went bust and were relegated. Since then we have self funded a £15m plus stand. We have no access to bank credit.

 

There is your effing context.

 

Its a wonder we have been anywhere near the top 6 every season given that context.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Jammy T

[Jodami]

2 minutes ago, Jammy T said:

 

Put eras into context?

 

5 years ago we went bust and were relegated. Since then we have self funded a £15m plus stand. We have no access to bank credit.

 

There is your effing context.

 

Its a wonder we have been anywhere near the top 6 every season given that context.

No it's clearly not Jammy. By putting eras in context it's plain to see that money plays a much bigger part in where teams are than back then. In the 80s the difference in wages paid by top teams was nowhere near what it is now. This led to much more competitive leagues that allowed non old firm teams to challenge and win. Unfortunately we were a shambles in that period until Mercer and then Macdonald & Jardine came on the scene. 

We have had higher budgets in the 2 and a half seasons Cathro and Levein have been in charge compared to Neilson's year and a half in the top flight but our performance has been worse, even if you factor in Rangers coming back up. 

[graygo]

17 minutes ago, Jodami said:

No it's clearly not Jammy. By putting eras in context it's plain to see that money plays a much bigger part in where teams are than back then. In the 80s the difference in wages paid by top teams was nowhere near what it is now. This led to much more competitive leagues that allowed non old firm teams to challenge and win. Unfortunately we were a shambles in that period until Mercer and then Macdonald & Jardine came on the scene. 

We have had higher budgets in the 2 and a half seasons Cathro and Levein have been in charge compared to Neilson's year and a half in the top flight but our performance has been worse, even if you factor in Rangers coming back up. 

 

Out of interest what are the average figures from the times you are comparing?

[Jodami]

17 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Out of interest what are the average figures from the times you are comparing?

Early 80s graygo, it changed in 86 with Souness. 

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Early 80s graygo, it changed in 86 with Souness. 

 

You mentioned it all changed with Mercer, sure he came in 1981.

 

I agree that the difference in salary was less but it's all relevant, I'm pretty sure the difference has always been a chasm in real terms.

 

Edit: McDonald was 1981 as well.

Edited May 31, 2019 by graygo