U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[JFK-1]

Trump 2024

 

[JFK-1]

It's a step closer to an end stage, but it will drag out for a bit yet. And beyond that it will take this country decades to recover from the disaster this seditious treasonous maniac visited upon it. Or even longer. This makes Watergate look trivial.

Could it be any worse? An actual sitting president tried to overthrow the government, and if he had got away with that it was over. American democracy would have been over. If I had described such a scenario to you just 10 years ago, at the beginning of the Obama second term, it would have sounded like poor quality fantasy. Yet here we are, it's our reality.

I was also thinking that even if the DOJ indict Trump and the inner circle let's call it, while that's the head of the snake this snake is not killed by beheading alone. There are dozens of GOP reps sitting in congress who were all on board with his coup attempt, which they all knew was an actual coup attempt.

They all knew there was zero evidence of any election fraud, they had been told so not just by McConnell but also Trumps own lackey AG Barr.

 

Over 60 courts, every last court they filed any complaint in, many of them presided over by Trump appointed judges, threw it out in a manner befitting how absurd their filings were. YouTube conspiracy shite, that absurd.

Yet these dirty dozens were in constant communication with the plotters, egging them on, providing more conspiracy shite to muddy the waters, and insisting 'marshall' law must be imposed by Trump immediately. A military coup.

 

Another sign of the qualities of people who gravitate towards Trump, they can't even spell martial law while demanding it. If they saw it like that they would probably think it was something to do with kung fu.

To my mind these people represent an ongoing threat to the nation. They're still right behind Trump, though that might become ever more difficult. They must be investigated and in as many cases as possible also indicted.

I think I saw something in the details of the indictments Trump is facing referring to giving support to such conspiracists in a number of ways.

 

Support them includes encouragement in exactly the way they were encouraging it, and continued to do so after Jan 6th. All the evidence is right there in text messages, and I would wager there's a lot more of it than we have seen.

Something has to be done about these people too, and I have a feeling something will be done. This Jack Smith guy is reportedly opening up cans even the DOJ hadn't thought of, or maybe ignored, and some cans will have worms in them.

 

This guy strikes me as someone who is absolutely relentless, and in the back of his mind there has to be a bit of him contemplating the historic nature of his work. This will put him in the history books.

So allying that awareness of the history he has become a major part of with his methodical relentless nature nothing would surprise me about what this guy may come up with.

 

If I were him I too would be thinking historians are going to be examining all this long after i'm gone, and I need to get this right, I need to cover every angle or I could look unflattering to history.

McCarthy's name has been mentioned as one of those giving support both before and even during the assault on the capitol, and afterwards. That would be sweet. This shit can bar you from ever holding any office.

 

And I just thought, it will take a century to get over this, in some sense it might be considered even more schismatic than the civil war. An actual sitting president supported by the Republican party, even though it's happened it's still hard to digest it.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Trump 2024

 

If only.

I can’t see this thing getting jailed.

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

If only.

I can’t see this thing getting jailed.

Same, if nothing else imagine the logistics when there's a sizeable number of guards, inmates, etc who'd storm the capitol for him.

[The Real Maroonblood]

24 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Same, if nothing else imagine the logistics when there's a sizeable number of guards, inmates, etc who'd storm the capitol for him.

There would be clowns who would try this.

 

[JFK-1]

I think putting Trump in a standard prison would be a challenge for a variety of reasons, though you never know. But they simply can't let him walk away from this, this man is a menace to the nation and the world even if he were ever to hold high office again.

 

Even out of office he continues to be a threat to the country with his endless conspiracy wackery, associations with nazis and white supremacist's, qanon, dog whistling to all of these wackos exactly as he did on Jan 6th. The list is endless.

 

I believe the DOJ will indict him in part because I see no way out of it for them now, there would be more outrage if he weren't indicted than if he were. And this is just the coup attempt which is all the Jan 6 committee were addressing.

 

Even out of office he stole classified documents, was given the opportunity to return them, then after a year of holding them he returned some and said that was all of it. Which it wasn't, and the government knew it.

 

Again they requested he look again and return more documents, and that would have been the end of it. But he absolutely wouldn't forcing them to execute a search warrant. A 'raid' Trump called it.

 

And sure enough more classified documents, then even later, just recently, more were recovered from a bloody lock-up or something. I don't suppose it's quite on a par with the coup attempt but this is deeply serious shit.

 

This to me amounts to treason, he maliciously exposed security sensitive national secrets to infiltration by hostile foreign powers, and I would say at this time we have to presume at a minimum some compromised.

 

He was keeping them in a golf club FFS, a place thousands will pass through all the time and you can be guaranteed the place would have been crawling with foreign agents. Probably almost all of the time.

 

Hell everybody including the general public knew this complete imbecile was holding government documents in that golf club, you would have to be a real joke of a foreign intelligence agency if you weren't in there.

 

That's what he has done, there's every chance people are dead because of him and there are probably even more documents out there someplace.

 

They can't let him walk away from this, he's a walking national security risk for as long as he's breathing. Some sort of containment whether it be locked up in a golf club or something is in my view extremely likely for him.

 

National security risk aside, again, there would be mass outrage if he did just walk away.

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

I think putting Trump in a standard prison would be a challenge for a variety of reasons, though you never know. But they simply can't let him walk away from this, this man is a menace to the nation and the world even if he were ever to hold high office again.

 

Even out of office he continues to be a threat to the country with his endless conspiracy wackery, associations with nazis and white supremacist's, qanon, dog whistling to all of these wackos exactly as he did on Jan 6th. The list is endless.

 

I believe the DOJ will indict him in part because I see no way out of it for them now, there would be more outrage if he weren't indicted than if he were. And this is just the coup attempt which is all the Jan 6 committee were addressing.

 

Even out of office he stole classified documents, was given the opportunity to return them, then after a year of holding them he returned some and said that was all of it. Which it wasn't, and the government knew it.

 

Again they requested he look again and return more documents, and that would have been the end of it. But he absolutely wouldn't forcing them to execute a search warrant. A 'raid' Trump called it.

 

And sure enough more classified documents, then even later, just recently, more were recovered from a bloody lock-up or something. I don't suppose it's quite on a par with the coup attempt but this is deeply serious shit.

 

This to me amounts to treason, he maliciously exposed security sensitive national secrets to infiltration by hostile foreign powers, and I would say at this time we have to presume at a minimum some compromised.

 

He was keeping them in a golf club FFS, a place thousands will pass through all the time and you can be guaranteed the place would have been crawling with foreign agents. Probably almost all of the time.

 

Hell everybody including the general public knew this complete imbecile was holding government documents in that golf club, you would have to be a real joke of a foreign intelligence agency if you weren't in there.

 

That's what he has done, there's every chance people are dead because of him and there are probably even more documents out there someplace.

 

They can't let him walk away from this, he's a walking national security risk for as long as he's breathing. Some sort of containment whether it be locked up in a golf club or something is in my view extremely likely for him.

 

National security risk aside, again, there would be mass outrage if he did just walk away.

 

I don't think he'll walk away, I just don't think he'll see the inside of a jail.

 

I think he'll either get an Escobar style prison he built himself, complete with sauna, bar, etc., or he'll die before it gets that far.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't think he'll walk away, I just don't think he'll see the inside of a jail.

 

I think he'll either get an Escobar style prison he built himself, complete with sauna, bar, etc., or he'll die before it gets that far.

 

If he's indicted and found guilty, and I think a guilty finding is as certain as an indictment is, I feel they will be compelled to bring some sort of let's say relatively harsh punishment.

 

I think the mood of the population will demand it. Found guilty of such serious crimes? There has to be some sort of visible to all severe punishment. Because that's what you would do to me.

 

I don't know where they might confine him, but I would be looking for no access to outside communication.

 

Stop him playing this tiresome and tedious whining bitch scene in our faces for the rest of his life. That would kill him. We all deserve getting him out of our faces, and he deserves his end of it.

[ri Alban]

Civil war is coming lads. You better get yourself armed to the teeth, cause they are.

[ri Alban]

This will only end in war.

[Unknown user]

25 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Civil war is coming lads. You better get yourself armed to the teeth, cause they are.

I think they're pussies. Their whole thing is about the government coming for them, not actually leaving their comfort zone and taking on the national guard.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

I think they're pussies. Their whole thing is about the government coming for them, not actually leaving their comfort zone and taking on the national guard.

Not anymore.They have a messiah.

[Gizmo]

18 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Not anymore.They have a messiah.

The gravy seals would last 10 minutes against the US military. 

[Unknown user]

18 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

The gravy seals would last 10 minutes against the US military. 

Exactly

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Civil war is coming lads. You better get yourself armed to the teeth, cause they are.

As much as it’s coming, it’s already here. 

[Unknown user]

There will undoubtedly be pockets of militia in the vast American landscape, but they're not beating the best funded military on the planet.

[Maple Leaf]

7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

This will only end in war.

There are hundreds of millions of guns in the hands of civilians, and there are well-armed, far-right militias who are pissed off at every aspect of government.

 

There won't be a war like the Civil War, but it's easy to imagine a dramatic uptick in violence against any form of authority if something happens to trigger the militias.  And that 'something' could be the conviction of their hero, Trump.

[Maple Leaf]

11 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

It's a step closer to an end stage, but it will drag out for a bit yet. And beyond that it will take this country decades to recover from the disaster this seditious treasonous maniac visited upon it. Or even longer. This makes Watergate look trivial.

Could it be any worse? An actual sitting president tried to overthrow the government, and if he had got away with that it was over. American democracy would have been over. If I had described such a scenario to you just 10 years ago, at the beginning of the Obama second term, it would have sounded like poor quality fantasy. Yet here we are, it's our reality.

I was also thinking that even if the DOJ indict Trump and the inner circle let's call it, while that's the head of the snake this snake is not killed by beheading alone. There are dozens of GOP reps sitting in congress who were all on board with his coup attempt, which they all knew was an actual coup attempt.

They all knew there was zero evidence of any election fraud, they had been told so not just by McConnell but also Trumps own lackey AG Barr.

 

Over 60 courts, every last court they filed any complaint in, many of them presided over by Trump appointed judges, threw it out in a manner befitting how absurd their filings were. YouTube conspiracy shite, that absurd.

Yet these dirty dozens were in constant communication with the plotters, egging them on, providing more conspiracy shite to muddy the waters, and insisting 'marshall' law must be imposed by Trump immediately. A military coup.

 

Another sign of the qualities of people who gravitate towards Trump, they can't even spell martial law while demanding it. If they saw it like that they would probably think it was something to do with kung fu.

To my mind these people represent an ongoing threat to the nation. They're still right behind Trump, though that might become ever more difficult. They must be investigated and in as many cases as possible also indicted.

I think I saw something in the details of the indictments Trump is facing referring to giving support to such conspiracists in a number of ways.

 

Support them includes encouragement in exactly the way they were encouraging it, and continued to do so after Jan 6th. All the evidence is right there in text messages, and I would wager there's a lot more of it than we have seen.

Something has to be done about these people too, and I have a feeling something will be done. This Jack Smith guy is reportedly opening up cans even the DOJ hadn't thought of, or maybe ignored, and some cans will have worms in them.

 

This guy strikes me as someone who is absolutely relentless, and in the back of his mind there has to be a bit of him contemplating the historic nature of his work. This will put him in the history books.

So allying that awareness of the history he has become a major part of with his methodical relentless nature nothing would surprise me about what this guy may come up with.

 

If I were him I too would be thinking historians are going to be examining all this long after i'm gone, and I need to get this right, I need to cover every angle or I could look unflattering to history.

McCarthy's name has been mentioned as one of those giving support both before and even during the assault on the capitol, and afterwards. That would be sweet. This shit can bar you from ever holding any office.

 

And I just thought, it will take a century to get over this, in some sense it might be considered even more schismatic than the civil war. An actual sitting president supported by the Republican party, even though it's happened it's still hard to digest it.

I can imagine there being reluctance to convict Trump because of the political implications, but I hope all those enablers either finish up behind bars and/or get a lifetime ban from ever holding public office.

[JFK-1]

Trump tax returns will be made public, US House panel votes

 

The US House Ways and Means Committee voted 24-16 on Tuesday evening to publish the documents, with all Democrats on the panel in favour and all Republicans opposed.

 

But Kevin Brady, the ranking Republican on the committee, said Democrats had just "unleashed a dangerous new political weapon".

 

"Congress' enemies list is back," said the Texas congressman. "Every American taxpayer who may get on the wrong side of majority in Congress is now at risk."

 

FULL ARTICLE: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64044078

 

So there you have it, every American taxpayer the Dems don't like is now at risk. Risk of what exactly I don't know.

 

But I'm glad to know this, I'm not an American but I do pay taxes here so I'm right in that risk bracket.

 

I was naively thinking it might only apply to seditious insurrectionists and classified documents thieves who are already under investigation in tax cases.

[JFK-1]

Trump finally gets the news he’s been DREADING

 

Some interesting details around the decision to make Trumps tax returns public. The 6 years from 2015 to 2020 so covering all the years he infested the Whitehouse.

 

Maybe we should start a poll, was Trump ever a billionaire?

 

 

[JFK-1]

Trump’s Tax Returns May Embarrass Former President If Lack Of Wealth Is Exposed Expert Says

 

 

 

[JFK-1]

This is referring to the lawyer who defended Trump in his second impeachment trial, for the capitol riot. At the time he said things like Trump had no idea of sparking any violence. The Jan 6 committee has put not just a dent but a giant hole in that.

 

Makes you wonder what sort of defence will be constructed for Trump when he is tried. When the jury isn't the GOP refusing to convict him regardless of the evidence.

 

See Trump Insurrection Lawyer Fact-Checked on Live TV | Melber MSNBC Interview Part 1

 

 

 

See Trump Insurrection Lawyer Fact-Checked on Live TV | Melber MSNBC Interview Part 2

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

Interesting to note that trump's reason for not releasing his tax returns was that they were under audit.

 

They weren't.

[JFK-1]

28 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Interesting to note that trump's reason for not releasing his tax returns was that they were under audit.

 

They weren't.

 

And even if they were which it's now clear they weren't, it makes no difference to the ability to release them. Being audited doesn't stop you.

 

Trump as we all know is a thin skinned egomaniac, multi billionaire status is all that's ever given him a platform at all. It's all he's known for as such, it's what got him that TV show, it's a part of what got him the presidency. This multi billionaire business genius.

 

This destroys a large part of Trumps legend in his own mind, I can envisage someone like him being devastated by the prospect of it being revealed he's not a billionaire, and never was. I seriously think Trump could mentally crumble as all this shit progresses.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by JFK-1

[Jambo-Jimbo]

41 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Interesting to note that trump's reason for not releasing his tax returns was that they were under audit.

 

They weren't.

 

What, you mean....the orange one was telling porkies...

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Trump finally gets the news he’s been DREADING

 

Some interesting details around the decision to make Trumps tax returns public. The 6 years from 2015 to 2020 so covering all the years he infested the Whitehouse.

 

Maybe we should start a poll, was Trump ever a billionaire?

 

 

I'd ask the same about Musk. These ***** are good at spending other people's money, at the same time claiming it's their own.

[trotter]

10 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Trump tax returns will be made public, US House panel votes

 

The US House Ways and Means Committee voted 24-16 on Tuesday evening to publish the documents, with all Democrats on the panel in favour and all Republicans opposed.

 

But Kevin Brady, the ranking Republican on the committee, said Democrats had just "unleashed a dangerous new political weapon".

 

"Congress' enemies list is back," said the Texas congressman. "Every American taxpayer who may get on the wrong side of majority in Congress is now at risk."

 

FULL ARTICLE: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-64044078

 

So there you have it, every American taxpayer the Dems don't like is now at risk. Risk of what exactly I don't know.

 

But I'm glad to know this, I'm not an American but I do pay taxes here so I'm right in that risk bracket.

 

I was naively thinking it might only apply to seditious insurrectionists and classified documents thieves who are already under investigation in tax cases.

I've met Kevin Brady and spoke to him on multiple occasions through the work PAC. Came across as a good egg. He's right in what he says, but wrong in how he says it. Presidents don't have to disclose tax returns, but they traditionally do. When these numbers come out it will show everyone that Trump is a charlatan. No doubt his ardent supporters will find a way to turn it round, but it will be in black and white that he is nowhere near as rich as he claims, he's never paid anywhere near his fair share in tax, and that multiple foreign investors are involved. 

 

He's a liar, and about to be shown up as much 

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, trotter said:

I've met Kevin Brady and spoke to him on multiple occasions through the work PAC. Came across as a good egg. He's right in what he says, but wrong in how he says it. Presidents don't have to disclose tax returns, but they traditionally do. When these numbers come out it will show everyone that Trump is a charlatan. No doubt his ardent supporters will find a way to turn it round, but it will be in black and white that he is nowhere near as rich as he claims, he's never paid anywhere near his fair share in tax, and that multiple foreign investors are involved. 

 

He's a liar, and about to be shown up as much 

 

I continually swing back and forward when it comes to Trump.  There have been so many false dawns about his demise that I've now reached the stage of "I'll believe it when I see it."

 

Trump is a charlatan and he is a liar, and much worse, so there's no argument from me there.  But I'm cautious about there being any major revelations in his tax returns.  For example, I doubt if anything will be revealed about his overall wealth.  As far as I know, annual tax returns cover only income for a given year, and the taxes paid on that income.

 

They could show that Trump pays very little in taxes, but so what?  He's already admitted that in a speech I saw years ago, and he described that as being smart.  Some large corporations pay less in tax than the average worker, so Trump will be no exception in that regard.

 

 

[Unknown user]

In 3 of the years between 2016-2020 he paid a total of $1500 in tax!

 

His returns include large charitable donations, in cash, with no documentation provided or requested by the IRS.

Not only this, but his returns should have been audited every year as president, but they weren't, some are suggesting the head of the IRS, who's recently left the post, was involved.

[Unknown user]

In an interview I saw with a tax expert, the guy asked "are there many people who give large charitable cash donations and don't substantiate them in their tax returns?"

"Yeah, in jail"

[JFK-1]

In this case the damage to Trump may not be criminal, but might be how would I know. Regardless the thing is what it's doing is damaging in fact destroying Trump's carefully crafted 'brand'

 

He created an illusion of business acumen and a brand linked with luxury. People paid Trump just to put his name on their luxury buildings and endorse their products. What's he doing now? Selling tacky NFT cards? Hardly luxury.

 

He's not going to be able to portray the billionaire business genius he has been pretending to be anymore, so that's all gone. Has to be a major blow to a fragile ego like Trump, boohoo.

 

In the NY tax case he could be liable for hundreds of millions, I think the prosecutor set around 250 million as some sort of baseline. He's also being sued by police who were severely assaulted at the capitol due to his lies and incitement.

 

Ask Alex Jones how that can pan out. All that on top of criminal charges that can pull decades in jail and those charges look cut and dried. I really can see Trump melting down if he actually does have any kind of grasp on reality. 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

In this case the damage to Trump may not be criminal, but might be how would I know. Regardless the thing is what it's doing is damaging in fact destroying Trump's carefully crafted 'brand'

 

He created an illusion of business acumen and a brand linked with luxury. People paid Trump just to put his name on their luxury buildings and endorse their products. What's he doing now? Selling tacky NFT cards? Hardly luxury.

 

He's not going to be able to portray the billionaire business genius he has been pretending to be anymore, so that's all gone. Has to be a major blow to a fragile ego like Trump, boohoo.

 

In the NY tax case he could be liable for hundreds of millions, I think the prosecutor set around 250 million as some sort of baseline. He's also being sued by police who were severely assaulted at the capitol due to his lies and incitement.

 

Ask Alex Jones how that can pan out. All that on top of criminal charges that can pull decades in jail and those charges look cut and dried. I really can see Trump melting down if he actually does have any kind of grasp on reality. 

 

It's all so crazy, boxes of secrets kept at a golf resort, which, you'd have to assume, is riddled with foreign agents on a daily basis. How could it not be?

 

He must be in proper shit, he must be.

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's all so crazy, boxes of secrets kept at a golf resort, which, you'd have to assume, is riddled with foreign agents on a daily basis. How could it not be?

 

He must be in proper shit, he must be.

 

I see no way the Jan 6 committee would have recommended these charges if they didn't know it was cut and dried. The committee was littered with lawyers, they know how to build a case to top prosecutorial standards.

 

It's so cut and dried all us legal ignorant masses know exactly what he did even without seeing the masses of evidence they will produce for a trial. Shit we saw him do a lot of it.

 

And the documents? How cut and dried could it be? He was holding them and refusing to return them. They found them in his possession. This isn't OJ, the glove fits. Trump pretty much broadcast his intent right in our faces long before the riot and even before the election.

 

After months of lying about a stolen election we saw him tell that mob to turn up on the 6th, "going to be wild", and it was.

 

We saw him launch the mob at the capitol then saw him throw fuel on the fire when at a time the disorder had already kicked off he tweeted hostile messages about Pence.

 

And so much more, that's just a lacquer coating of what they have on him in just one case.

 

The riot was just the final throw of the dice after multiple other criminal endeavors had failed. Criminal endeavors we now also have masses of irrefutable evidence on. Rudy Giuliani for one has actually been confessing to a lot of it.

 

How could he possibly wriggle out of this? It would be farcical, and I don't think even this crazy nation will be that farcical.

[JFK-1]

The journalists are working through the 845 page public report which gives some new and interesting details on Cassidy Hutchinson's evidence. It's incredible what this young woman went through to simply tell the truth.

 

It would appear a 'Trump world' lawyer they tried to force on her will likely be disbarred, another lawyer around Trump bites the dust. Do they never learn?

 

Miss Hutchinson dumped him despite the fact she had no money, because she knew he was not only telling her to lie, but was also lying to her. And that gets you disbarred.

She said she feared being sucked into Trump world, because once you're sucked in it's very hard to get back out. And getting out as some have already discovered might mean jail.

 

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by JFK-1

[JFK-1]

Found it interesting when he spoke towards the end of the above video about the detailed structure of the report, I don't know how many chapters there are but there's an extensive table of contents. He said that this may be, as well as the most historic report, the best written report the house has ever seen.

Example of the chapter titles and table of contents references. Chapter 6 is titled "be there, will be wild"

Presumably chapter 6 is detailing Trumps summoning of the mob. The first table of contents title cited is "I just want to find 11,780 votes"

 

At trial there would be a lot more than the 845 pages contains, the public report is more of a skeleton guide and in itself is absolutely damning. Apparently what they have compiled amounts to over a million documents, how many people and how long would it take to read all that?

 

Over 1,000 questioned, that must amount to a massive amount of video and audio evidence. They make mention of their views on the credibility of those being questioned, noting that some were distinctly uncooperative, liberal use of the 5th from some.

 

I just keep thinking how in the world can they possibly construct any type of defence in the face of it. They have even entirely deconstructed any potential well he truly believed the election was stolen line.

 

They demonstrated that he knew the big lie was a big lie, but he still pushed it and he still is pushing it right in our faces, while all this evidence to the contrary is out there. Where do they go from there?

 

All I can think of is some sort of mental disturbance plea, whether it be insanity, temporary insanity, mental breakdown over the stress, who knows. But that's the only thing I can think of that might get anywhere at all. 

[JFK-1]

While i'm no lawyer, surely this amounts to witness tampering.

 

 

[Unknown user]

It's fascinating to watch it all unfold, but I have to say I really can't stand the smugness of the reporters and commentators. I know they don't like him and it's been a long time coming so I don't really blame them, but it is a bit irritating.

[JFK-1]

This has to achieve an end point of not just convicting Trump, but also demonstrating Trump to be the most vile traitor in American history, in my view he is when you throw in the classified documents disaster and so much more it would take another report to describe it all.
 

Not sure who is currently regarded as the most vile of American traitors, maybe Benedict Arnold. A Major General who fought for the US side in the first 5 years of the war of independence, then defected to the British in 1880. Perhaps @Led Tasso could comment on the greatest American traitor question.

Trump has to go down in history in that category and not just in the history books, but in the cultural zeitgeist.   

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by JFK-1

[Unknown user]

29 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

This has to achieve an end point of not just convicting Trump, but also demonstrating Trump to be the most vile traitor in American history, in my view he is when you throw in the classified documents disaster and so much more it would take another report to describe it all.
 

Not sure who is currently regarded as the most vile of American traitors, maybe Benedict Arnold. A Major General who fought for the US side in the first 5 years of the war of independence, then defected to the British in 1880. Perhaps @Led Tasso could comment on the greatest American traitor question.

Trump has to go down in history in that category and not just in the history books, but in the cultural zeitgeist.   

 

 

Led wanted his team to lose a game at the world cup, I bet he could! 😆 

 

In all seriousness though, this needs to be the biggest, most public slapdown ever. The lies laid bare, the hypocrisy, the manipulation and pathetic neediness. Ideally there'll be footage of him calling christians pricks, and his supporters thick, inbred scum.

[JFK-1]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Led wanted his team to lose a game at the world cup, I bet he could! 😆 

 

In all seriousness though, this needs to be the biggest, most public slapdown ever. The lies laid bare, the hypocrisy, the manipulation and pathetic neediness. Ideally there'll be footage of him calling christians pricks, and his supporters thick, inbred scum.

 

For anyone who is interested in reading it this is a link to a pdf of the report. All i'm suggesting to you is take a look at the table of contents, which begins on page 20. It will give you an insight into how thoroughly they have broken it down.

 

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2022/12/Report_FinalReport_Jan6SelectCommittee.pdf

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

For anyone who is interested in reading it this is a link to a pdf of the report. All i'm suggesting to you is take a look at the table of contents, which begins on page 20. It will give you an insight into how thoroughly they have broken it down.

 

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2022/12/Report_FinalReport_Jan6SelectCommittee.pdf

I saw the titles getting broken down somewhere, they've pulled no punches from the looks of it!

[JFK-1]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I saw the titles getting broken down somewhere, they've pulled no punches from the looks of it!

 

They're calling it a coup. Regarding which I remember I think it was @Maple Leaf who said soon after the riot it was an attempted coup, and was roundly mocked by the trumpets the place was infested with at the time.

 

While in fact he nailed it way back then. Another sign perhaps of how cut and dried this really is.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

For those asking, yes, "Benedict Arnold" is effectively synonymous with "traitor" in this country, even though most people have forgotten who he was or why he's called that.

 

A side matter but by no means a small one: the Electoral Count Reform Act got incorporated into the giganto omnibus spending bill that is heading to Biden's desk to become law. This is in the weeds a bit but it's a big deal. A lot of the shit that Trump tried to pull and the angles he worked, including pressuring Mike Pence to reject electoral slates and the nomination of fake electors, was due to the very ambiguously written Electoral Count Act, passed in 1887, that dictated the mechanics of how Presidents are formally recognized as elected. This law makes what had long been established practice much less ambiguous and makes stronger penalties clearer for trying to defraud the system.

 

To be clear we'd be better off reforming the Electoral College out of existence, but failing that, this is a very good step.

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/12/22/1139951463/electoral-count-act-reform-passes

Edited December 24, 2022 by Led Tasso

[JFK-1]

28 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

For those asking, yes, "Benedict Arnold" is effectively synonymous with "traitor" in this country, even though most people have forgotten who he was or why he's called that.

 

I frequently know more about American history than many and maybe even most Americans do. Without a shadow of a doubt I know more about the world outside the US than most of them do.

 

But to be fair I was taught British Empire history from primary school onwards. And that covers a lot of the world giving you an outline of global geography among other things. Including the ever shifting geopolitical landscape and balance of power .

 

According to my American wife they largely teach only American history, and a massively subverted view of that.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Just now, JFK-1 said:

 

I frequently know more about American history than many and maybe even most Americans do. Without a shadow of a doubt I know more about the world outside the US than most of them do.

 

But to be fair I was taught British Empire history from primary school onwards. And that covers a lot of the world giving you an outline of global geography among other things. Including the ever shifting geopolitical landscape and balance of power .

 

According to my American wife they largely teach only American history, and a massively subverted view of that.

 

Depends on where. Education is highly decentralized, so it depends on your state and your district. Oklahoma gets a bad rap sometimes but it wouldn't be my go-to for top of the heap on history . . . I'd also say you were taught British Imperial history, which in my experience seems to leave out a few things. And that in turn seems to ends up with a lot of UK citizens oddly befuddled as to why, for instance, people around the world aren't instantly reverent at the news of the death of an English monarch . . . 😉

 

As to Benedict Arnold, we were all taught who he was, but it's a pretty boring story TBH and ultimately not terribly consequential in the run of the war, so it doesn't exactly stick in the mid 30+ years on out of school.

 

Anyway, the real tragedy of the American education system is geography, and the reason for the collapse of that is far more interesting and less told, and involves Harvard and a legion of Harvard wannabes, homophobia, Nazis, the US military, geopolitics, and the public/private split in universities. (Okay, it's far more interesting if, like me, your academic field is geography, but pretty boring for others, I suppose.)

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Depends on where. Education is highly decentralized, so it depends on your state and your district. Oklahoma gets a bad rap sometimes but it wouldn't be my go-to for top of the heap on history . . . I'd also say you were taught British Imperial history, which in my experience seems to leave out a few things. And that in turn seems to ends up with a lot of UK citizens oddly befuddled as to why, for instance, people around the world aren't instantly reverent at the news of the death of an English monarch . . . 😉

 

As to Benedict Arnold, we were all taught who he was, but it's a pretty boring story TBH and ultimately not terribly consequential in the run of the war, so it doesn't exactly stick in the mid 30+ years on out of school.

 

Anyway, the real tragedy of the American education system is geography, and the reason for the collapse of that is far more interesting and less told, and involves Harvard and a legion of Harvard wannabes, homophobia, Nazis, the US military, geopolitics, and the public/private split in universities. (Okay, it's far more interesting if, like me, your academic field is geography, but pretty boring for others, I suppose.)

 

Both British and American educations can be accused of being very insular, we here are an island nation in more ways than one.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Both British and American educations can be accused of being very insular, we here are an island nation in more ways than one.

 

Yip, and in both we're always the heroes and never the baddies.

 

I actually got Howard Zinn as assigned reading in 11th grade, but I was at a bit of an unusual school.

[JFK-1]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Both British and American educations can be accused of being very insular, we here are an island nation in more ways than one.

 

There's allegedly a famous newspaper headline from the 1950's or 60's, can't remember which. Might be apocryphal I couldn't say. But even if it is I would agree it's still an accurate depiction of the British on their island.

 

Supposedly there was a great fog in the channel extending to the continent making travel back and forth in the channel impossible while it lasted. The heading allegedly said something like "fog in channel, continent isolated"

 

 

Edited December 24, 2022 by JFK-1

[Maple Leaf]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

There's allegedly a famous newspaper headline from the 1950's or 60's, can't remember which. Might be apocryphal I couldn't say. But even if it is I would agree it's still an accurate depiction of the British on their island.

 

Supposedly there was great fog in the channel extending to the continent making travel back and forth in the channel impossible while it lasted. The heading allegedly said something like "fog in channel, continent isolated"

 

 

I think it's apocryphal.  It was common in pre-Chunnel days for the weather forecast to say "Fog in the channel.  The continent is cut off", meaning that the channel ferries couldn't run.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

Both British and American educations can be accused of being very insular, we here are an island nation in more ways than one.

History started in 1707. And I thought we were ancient.