U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[DETTY29]

6 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

If Trump were pulling a million a week it wouldn't put much of a dent in a what's reportedly up to a billion in debt.

Yep. Barely scrape the loan package fee for the week, let alone interest on top.

[Lone Striker]

Just watched the interview Obama did with David Olusoga, based on his book The Promised Land.    Class, brilliant insight, honesty, integrity, wide knowledge of history, awareness of his failures - what a polar opposite compared to his successor in the WH.   Definitely going to be reading his book.

 

    

 

      

[JFK-1]

I don't see the US recovering it's previous status even with a rational actor in the WH. The world knows how many voted for Trump. They also know this could happen again.

 

And consider where the Republicans may go next. They know someone pushing a racist xenophobic line like Trump can win. Then imagine someone smarter and more eloquent than Trump taking his place.

And let's face it, that wouldn't be difficult. I suspect the average college student to be smarter and more eloquent than Trump.

 

Someone smarter and more eloquent than Trump but going down the same path would be infinitely more dangerous. And the world now knows that's a possibility within the US at any election.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

I don't see the US recovering it's previous status even with a rational actor in the WH. The world knows how many voted for Trump. They also know this could happen again.

 

And consider where the Republicans may go next. They know someone pushing a racist xenophobic line like Trump can win. Then imagine someone smarter and more eloquent than Trump taking his place.

And let's face it, that wouldn't be difficult. I suspect the average college student to be smarter and more eloquent than Trump.

 

Someone smarter and more eloquent than Trump but going down the same path would be infinitely more dangerous. And the world now knows that's a possibility within the US at any election.

Shiver up my spine

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

I don't see the US recovering it's previous status even with a rational actor in the WH. The world knows how many voted for Trump. They also know this could happen again.

 

And consider where the Republicans may go next. They know someone pushing a racist xenophobic line like Trump can win. Then imagine someone smarter and more eloquent than Trump taking his place.

And let's face it, that wouldn't be difficult. I suspect the average college student to be smarter and more eloquent than Trump.

 

Someone smarter and more eloquent than Trump but going down the same path would be infinitely more dangerous. And the world now knows that's a possibility within the US at any election.

Your point is well made - although just how much Trump's celebrity status also contributed to his 2016 victory is open for debate.    Many  of these rednecks & white racists aren't the brightest when it comes  to analysing candidate's policies, so for them it probably comes down to "Hey, thats the rich guy from The Apprentice - he can't be any worse than Obama, he's white, he's gonna bring jobs and he's gonna let us keep our guns."    

 

I guess the Biden team's performance in terms of policies which bring a form of "levelling up" (to coin a Boris phrase) might  play a part in deciding whether the Rep party members go for an even more extreme Trumpet or turn back to a more mainstream candidate.   

 

Putin and Xi must be smirking at  how the "land of the free" is tearing itself apart over the result of a proper election.  🙄

 

  

 

 

[Captain Slog]

9 hours ago, Barack said:

Well, sheeeit! Who'd have guessed...?!

 

 

I just shared this with some (democratic) American friends in Kansas, and even though they are surrounded by Republicans, we between us dont have a clue what he's ranting at now.  Could anyone enlighten us?

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

15 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

I just shared this with some (democratic) American friends in Kansas, and even though they are surrounded by Republicans, we between us dont have a clue what he's ranting at now.  Could anyone enlighten us?

It’s a fact free tweet.

 

Edit: to go section by section:

“Far more votes than people” - complete fabrication. 62% of registered voters in Wayne County voted.

”Forced to change votes but refused” - after considerable public shaming for being racist purveyors of authoritarianism, the 2 Republicans on the Wayne County Board of Canvassers did actually change their votes. The only concession to them for doing this was agreement to have an audit of results, which is fine and won’t change a thing.

“71% mess” - no idea!

 

 

 

[Captain Slog]

21 minutes ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

It’s a fact free tweet.

 

Edit: to go section by section:

“Far more votes than people” - complete fabrication. 62% of registered voters in Wayne County voted.

”Forced to change votes but refused” - after considerable public shaming for being racist purveyors of authoritarianism, the 2 Republicans on the Wayne County Board of Canvassers did actually change their votes. The only concession to them for doing this was agreement to have an audit of results, which is fine and won’t change a thing.

“71% mess” - no idea!

 

 

 

Thank you.  Not for the first time, its been stated that we are blessed having a thread like this here. informative - often I'm first to be able to tell things on this subject - and this to Americans.

One girl wants to sign up to kickback just for this thread - may she?

P.S.  She did knit me a Hearts scarf for Christmas which i just received after parcel force had a rummage around in the box.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

And let's face it, that wouldn't be difficult. I suspect the average college student to be smarter and more eloquent than Trump.

 

 

The average 11-12 year old is smarter and more eloquent than Donald Trump.  The man has a reading impairment and a limited vocabulary, allied to an emotional age stuck somewhere around 12.

 

To win the White House gig you first have to capture the winning party.  As I've already said on this thread, it was the turn of the GOP to win in 2016, plain and simple.  Trump won their nomination, not because he was stupid and racist, but because he was famous and different.  It helped that there is a core of Tea Party extremists in the Republican Party, but by itself that wouldn't have been enough.  What finally tipped the balance for him was that by and large his Republican opponents were poor campaigners.  When he got to the General Election, he was faced with a poor Democratic nominee who was intensely disliked by many Americans, including a lot of Democrats.

 

Trump then won the Republican nomination in 2020 because he was the incumbent.  But he couldn't play at being an outsider any more because he was the incumbent.  And his opponent in the General Election simply wasn't as unpopular as Hillary Clinton.

 

It looks as if Donald Trump's 2020 vote share will be about 1% higher than in 2016, whereas Biden's will be about 3% higher than Clinton's.  That is a historically poor result for an incumbent Republican president.  Bush Senior did worse in 1992, but he was faced with a highly effective third party candidate.  An unpopular Ford lost in 1976 following the Nixon Watergate scandal, but he still pulled in a better share of the vote than either of Trump's results.  You have to go right back to Herbert Hoover in 1932 to find an incumbent Republican president who lost and scored a lower popular vote share in a two-horse race - and that happened because Hoover was in charge at the time of the Wall Street Crash.

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Thank you.  Not for the first time, its been stated that we are blessed having a thread like this here. informative - often I'm first to be able to tell things on this subject - and this to Americans.

One girl wants to sign up to kickback just for this thread - may she?

P.S.  She did knit me a Hearts scarf for Christmas which i just received after parcel force had a rummage around in the box.

 

Tell her she has to learn how to hate Hibs, the Glasgow Gruesome Twosome, Willie Collum and the Scottish football powers that be (her choice as to how she ranks them) or else just nope.

[Captain Slog]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Tell her she has to learn how to hate Hibs, the Glasgow Gruesome Twosome, Willie Collum and the Scottish football powers that be (her choice as to how she ranks them) or else just nope.

I've spent six months doing that, and Ill trump that she hates everyone that shafted us this year

[Ulysses]

Just now, Captain Slog said:

I've spent six months doing that, and Ill trump that she hates everyone that shafted us this year

 

She'll be fine, so.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

17 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Thank you.  Not for the first time, its been stated that we are blessed having a thread like this here. informative - often I'm first to be able to tell things on this subject - and this to Americans.

One girl wants to sign up to kickback just for this thread - may she?

 Of course

[Maple Leaf]

52 minutes ago, Captain Slog said:

Thank you.  Not for the first time, its been stated that we are blessed having a thread like this here. informative - often I'm first to be able to tell things on this subject - and this to Americans.

One girl wants to sign up to kickback just for this thread - may she?

P.S.  She did knit me a Hearts scarf for Christmas which i just received after parcel force had a rummage around in the box.

 

She has to pass the entrance exam.

 

What do HHGH and FTH mean?

[Dorothy]

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

[redjambo]

4 minutes ago, Dorothy said:

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

 

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, Dorothy said:

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

 

Yup. 

[Captain Slog]

10 minutes ago, Dorothy said:

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

👍But then I'm biased.

 

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

19 minutes ago, Dorothy said:

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

Totolly.

[Dorothy]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

The average 11-12 year old is smarter and more eloquent than Donald Trump.  The man has a reading impairment and a limited vocabulary, allied to an emotional age stuck somewhere around 12.

 

As someone who has taught that age group before, I think you're still setting the bar a bit high. Most 11-12 year olds I've known can string words into a cohesive sentence and don't start to tantrum when someone else has the spotlight.

[DETTY29]

BBC News tonight and in the South, Trump's supporters believe the election was rigged due to the number of Trump supporters at rallies compared to Biden's.  And that was the proportion by which Trump won the election.

 

Beyond feckin hope.

Edited November 19, 2020 by DETTY29

[Ulysses]

Just now, Dorothy said:

As someone who has taught that age group before, I think you're still setting the bar a bit high. Most 11-12 year olds I've known can string words into a cohesive sentence and don't start to tantrum when someone else has the spotlight.

 

True, but I'm wary of exaggerating.  That said, in a world full of insecure people he really is in a league of his own.

 

My main gripe with Trump isn't his insecurity, his childishness, his lack of manners or his woefully limited intellect.  It's not even his bigotry.  I get that he has all those things wrong with him, and I don't like them, but for me they aren't the big issue.  The big issue is that if you want to be the head of government of a country, you have to want to do well by that country.  You can have loads of things wrong with you, even down to a screwball definition of what it takes to do well - but if you do not want to do the right thing by a country then by definition you are hopelessly unqualified to lead it.

 

Thus the real issue with Trump.  He's the President of the United States, and he has absolutely no loyalty or even regard for the country.  That's why he has conceded so much ground to Russia and China, and lost so much power and influence for the United States.  He is incapable of putting America first.  There have been other American leaders whose policies or personalities we might have detested, but at least we knew they were putting American interests first, and could understand and respect that.  Not so with Donald Trump.

[Dorothy]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 He is incapable of putting America first.  There have been other American leaders whose policies or personalities we might have detested, but at least we knew they were putting American interests first, and could understand and respect that.  Not so with Donald Trump.

I vividly remember when George W Bush was the buffoon on the world stage with a litany of gaffs and misspeaking, but I find myself in the same space as other like minded citizens, we would rather have him back. 

 

Sure, he was goofy and at some points laughable, but it wasn't to the point that you had to shut off the news from sheer embarrassment. We hated his policy and overall outlook for what the future should look like, but I can't deny that he had the American interests in mind. He was an American patriot in his own way. Trump is only a patriot to himself, he never learned to love anything else.

[Pasquale for King]

Nearly 153m votes cast, if nothing else it’s been a brilliant turnout with both getting more votes than anyone else in history. Can only be good for their democracy going forward. 

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, Dorothy said:

I vividly remember when George W Bush was the buffoon on the world stage with a litany of gaffs and misspeaking, but I find myself in the same space as other like minded citizens, we would rather have him back. 

 

Sure, he was goofy and at some points laughable, but it wasn't to the point that you had to shut off the news from sheer embarrassment. We hated his policy and overall outlook for what the future should look like, but I can't deny that he had the American interests in mind. He was an American patriot in his own way. Trump is only a patriot to himself, he never learned to love anything else.

People are saying that about May and Cameron in the U.K., shows how bad BJ is. 

[Sharpie]

1 hour ago, Dorothy said:

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

 

Sorry have to say not immediately, all members must vote, then if there are any that disagree with your entry request we may have to have a recount, only on thread ballots allowed, and if any show signs of falsehood we have enough lawyers as members to consider if certification is allowed and approved.

 

Spent time writing a load of rubbish but truly welcome you and hope the rubbish makes you feel just like home.

[A Boy Named Crow]

1 hour ago, Sharpie said:

 

Sorry have to say not immediately, all members must vote, then if there are any that disagree with your entry request we may have to have a recount, only on thread ballots allowed, and if any show signs of falsehood we have enough lawyers as members to consider if certification is allowed and approved.

 

Spent time writing a load of rubbish but truly welcome you and hope the rubbish makes you feel just like home.

Perhaps the vote could be avoided if an existing member who knows her could vouch for her. 

 

Over to you @Captain Slog, would you describe yourself as a friend of @Dorothy?

[Captain Slog]

1 hour ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Perhaps the vote could be avoided if an existing member who knows her could vouch for her. 

 

Over to you @Captain Slog, would you describe yourself as a friend of @Dorothy?

Yes I would.  She's a good democrat. an American who knows what the word socialist means, understands why we laugh at Hibs.

 

Brownie points to me, i never mentioned what part of me i put in her mouth. now that's friendship

[Unknown user]

6 hours ago, Dorothy said:

F the Hibs

 

You're doing better than some Hearts fans already

[RobboM]

6 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Nearly 153m votes cast, if nothing else it’s been a brilliant turnout with both getting more votes than anyone else in history. Can only be good for their democracy going forward. 

Latest
Will Biden break 80m?
Will his  lead over Trump pass 6m (legal) votes?

[Pans Jambo]

33 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Latest
Will Biden break 80m?
Will his  lead over Trump pass 6m (legal) votes?

So is there still 17 votes to declare (not that that will make any difference to the race but would be interesting to see if Biden could get to 307)?

What state/states are still to declare then?

[The Real Maroonblood]

8 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

BBC News tonight and in the South, Trump's supporters believe the election was rigged due to the number of Trump supporters at rallies compared to Biden's.  And that was the proportion by which Trump won the election.

 

Beyond feckin hope.

[Des Lynam]

37 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

So is there still 17 votes to declare (not that that will make any difference to the race but would be interesting to see if Biden could get to 307)?

What state/states are still to declare then?

Is it not 16? Georgia is the one not declared by all media outlets. 

[DETTY29]

47 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

So is there still 17 votes to declare (not that that will make any difference to the race but would be interesting to see if Biden could get to 307)?

What state/states are still to declare then?

Only Georgia to declare which is 16 EC votes.

[Pans Jambo]

12 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

Is it not 16? Georgia is the one not declared by all media outlets. 

 

2 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Only Georgia to declare which is 16 EC votes.

OK Cheers.

[DETTY29]

Reading on the BBC website that the 10k 'dead' absentee voters in Michigan is because Republicans have cross referenced the Michigan database with the whole of the US electoral database for matches on name and month of birth and declaring the Michigan person as being dead, despite not being so.

 

And presumably not checking whether the person in the other state is alive or dead and if dead, voted or not.  I think we know the answer to that one.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

11 hours ago, Kalamazoo Jambo said:

It’s a fact free tweet.

 

Edit: to go section by section:

“Far more votes than people” - complete fabrication. 62% of registered voters in Wayne County voted.

”Forced to change votes but refused” - after considerable public shaming for being racist purveyors of authoritarianism, the 2 Republicans on the Wayne County Board of Canvassers did actually change their votes. The only concession to them for doing this was agreement to have an audit of results, which is fine and won’t change a thing.

“71% mess” - no idea!

 

 

 

 

Didn't some roaster also claim the same with Georgia, only thing was they got the population of the country Georgia mixed up with the US state of Georgia (US State 10.6m, Country 3.7m) and claimed that it was fraud because more people voted than lived there........doh!

 

Geography ain't their strongest point.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 hours ago, Dorothy said:

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

 

Welcome aboard the goodship Kickback.

 

With the above first post, you'll fit right in here. 👍

[I P Knightley]

9 hours ago, Dorothy said:

I vividly remember when George W Bush was the buffoon on the world stage with a litany of gaffs and misspeaking, but I find myself in the same space as other like minded citizens, we would rather have him back. 

 

Sure, he was goofy and at some points laughable, but it wasn't to the point that you had to shut off the news from sheer embarrassment. We hated his policy and overall outlook for what the future should look like, but I can't deny that he had the American interests in mind. He was an American patriot in his own way. Trump is only a patriot to himself, he never learned to love anything else.

That's exactly it and how 70million+ voters can't see through that amazes me. OK, many of them were voting Republican rather than Trump as such but, still, it's nuts.

 

The rose-tinted hindisght vision for Dubya is mirrored over here. I've often said that Gordon Brown is probably sitting in his onesie and slippers, laughing his back off that he's not even in the top 3 of the worst Prime Ministers we've had this century!

 

 

6 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Perhaps the vote could be avoided if an existing member who knows her could vouch for her. 

 

Over to you @Captain Slog, would you describe yourself as a friend of @Dorothy?

[RobboM]

2 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

So is there still 17 votes to declare (not that that will make any difference to the race but would be interesting to see if Biden could get to 307)?

What state/states are still to declare then?

As folks have commented Georgia is still outstanding due to the recount. Seems there may be a further twist that a second recond can happen. The first recount is by hand. The second recount is automated. It has been interesting that the recount has thrown up a couple of instances of vote totals not being included, meaning a couple of thousand votes had been completely missed, seemingly human error. They split marginally towards Trump but just makes you think back to the Bush/Gore and Florida recount vote where the difference was down to a couple of hundred votes.

[John Gentleman]

11 hours ago, Dorothy said:

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

Only if you post something in the "Crap Jokes" thread.

As the name would suggest, the bar is set low...

13 minutes ago, RobboM said:

As folks have commented Georgia is still outstanding due to the recount. Seems there may be a further twist that a second recond can happen. The first recount is by hand. The second recount is automated. It has been interesting that the recount has thrown up a couple of instances of vote totals not being included, meaning a couple of thousand votes had been completely missed, seemingly human error. They split marginally towards Trump but just makes you think back to the Bush/Gore and Florida recount vote where the difference was down to a couple of hundred votes.

Even if they broke 60/40 to Trump, Biden still wins.

And Gore was (and remains) an honourable man. Something which can't be said of the current WH incumbent.

The GOP are running out of dice to throw. Someone/something's got to break soon.

 

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, RobboM said:

Latest
Will Biden break 80m?
Will his  lead over Trump pass 6m (legal) votes?

It’s an amazing turnout and the Democrats will continue to try and get more minorities the ability to vote. 

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

So is there still 17 votes to declare (not that that will make any difference to the race but would be interesting to see if Biden could get to 307)?

What state/states are still to declare then?

CNN has him on 306, not sure who hasn’t declared. 

[John Gentleman]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s an amazing turnout and the Democrats will continue to try and get more minorities the ability to vote. 

CNN has him on 306, not sure who hasn’t declared. 

Could it be Maine or Nebraska? They're the 2 states which 'split' their electoral votes entitlements.

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, John Gentleman said:

Could it be Maine or Nebraska? They're the 2 states which 'split' their electoral votes entitlements.

I think it’s just Georgia recounting but im not sure. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/nov/19/us-election-results-2020-joe-biden-defeats-donald-trump-to-win-presidency

Edited November 19, 2020 by Pasquale for King

[RobboM]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think it’s just Georgia recounting but imagine not sure. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/nov/19/us-election-results-2020-joe-biden-defeats-donald-trump-to-win-presidency

Yep. Nb there's 538 in the electoral college hence 270 is the winning number. Surely should be 539 or 537 to avoid the possibility of a tie but there you go. AP hasn't called Georgia yet, just waiting on the recount. A final result of 306-232 will precisely reverse Trump's self described "landslide" of 2016

[Des Lynam]

 

[Boof]

12 hours ago, Dorothy said:

Hearts Hearts Glorious Hearts, and F the Hibs

 

So do I get to stay?

 

Depends...

 

Bacon roll - red sauce (the correct answer) or broon?

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Yep. Nb there's 538 in the electoral college hence 270 is the winning number. Surely should be 539 or 537 to avoid the possibility of a tie but there you go. AP hasn't called Georgia yet, just waiting on the recount. A final result of 306-232 will precisely reverse Trump's self described "landslide" of 2016

I think their system has been the subject of much discussion over much of this century and probably before. Like the U.K. it suits the two biggest parties and they’re unlikely to want to change it. 
I went to a lecture 12 years ago that was actually a seminar and in the two hours a Harvard professor laid out a fairer system that wasn’t dissimilar to what we have in Scotland. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Depends...

 

Bacon roll - red sauce (the correct answer) or broon?

It’s 2020 ffs, sausage (meat/veggie/vegan) roll with rid or broon. 

[gjcc]