U.S. Politics megathread (merged)

[Sharpie]

40 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

So it's like Turkey's voting for Christmas as they see that's a better alternative than having a Democrat in the WH.

 

 

This apparently happened to Clinton and Bush, nothing came of it. One commentator suggested it is the perfect time to invite Trump, he is being investigated about  Russiaa, he is being sued by a Porn star, his White House is in chaos, his son in law has had his security clearance lowered, imposed heavy tariffs on old allies, perfect time for important meetings about nuclear weapons, not like he won't be able to give it his full attention, and of course if he is still President.

[Ron Burgundy]

3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

What could possibly go wrong. 

Possibly a great deal but imagine the seethe if a deal was struck that was acceptable to both sides and benefits everyone.

 

Trump - World saviour.

 

I think some are so set in their ways and blinded by their hatred that they would prefer WW3.

 

Like the Remoaners wanting Brexit to fail.

 

[Boris]

4 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Possibly a great deal but imagine the seethe if a deal was struck that was acceptable to both sides and benefits everyone.

 

Trump - World saviour.

 

I think some are so set in their ways and blinded by their hatred that they would prefer WW3.

 

Like the Remoaners wanting Brexit to fail.

 

 

Hardly.

 

The seethers you refer to would, IMO, want a happy outcome to all of these things, it's just that their experience, cyncism, negativity, call it what you will, suggests that it will be the complete opposite.

[Sharpie]

If by seether one refers to a person who dislikes, has no  respect for , and never really wanted Donald Trump as President, count me in. The man so far has not to me achieved anything internationally that is praiseworthy. He has upset Mexico, probably the European Union, and threatened North Korea and insulted the leader. North Korea have agreed to a meeting, I am not aware that so far they have agreed to regular nuclear inspections, total disarmament of all nuclear weapons, an agreement being achieved without the disassembly of the military based in South Korea formed by U.S. and South Korean military, if Donald Trump achieves the withdrawl of these demands, if a peace treaty instead of a cease fire is signed after about seventy years that will be an achievement, and worthy of high praise.

 

There must be a considerable number of us who have watched on TV and read in the history books the famous pictures of Chamberlain waving the agreement with Hitler, and declaring peace in our time. That worked out well, as did the discussions the Americans were having with Japan, during which Japan invaded Pearl Harbour. If history teaches us anything its no matter how good it seems never let your guard down.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

10 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

If by seether one refers to a person who dislikes, has no  respect for , and never really wanted Donald Trump as President, count me in. The man so far has not to me achieved anything internationally that is praiseworthy. He has upset Mexico, probably the European Union, and threatened North Korea and insulted the leader. North Korea have agreed to a meeting, I am not aware that so far they have agreed to regular nuclear inspections, total disarmament of all nuclear weapons, an agreement being achieved without the disassembly of the military based in South Korea formed by U.S. and South Korean military, if Donald Trump achieves the withdrawl of these demands, if a peace treaty instead of a cease fire is signed after about seventy years that will be an achievement, and worthy of high praise.

 

There must be a considerable number of us who have watched on TV and read in the history books the famous pictures of Chamberlain waving the agreement with Hitler, and declaring peace in our time. That worked out well, as did the discussions the Americans were having with Japan, during which Japan invaded Pearl Harbour. If history teaches us anything its no matter how good it seems never let your guard down.

 

And this is why I'm absolutly amazed that Trump has jumped at the chance of a meeting with Kim Jong Un, without first knowing what the substance of the offer is on the table.

Usually there are many months of talks involving low ranking officials to begin with and progressively moving up the food chain before two leaders meet, especially in these circumstances.

 

The potential for the North Koreans to be playing Trump for a fool is extremely high, and all because of Trump's desperate desire to look like a deal maker, a great super guy, a guy who gets things done on the world stage. 

My worry is, if the North Koreans are playing some sort of game here, what Trump's reaction will be once the penny drops, as we all know what a petulant little kid he can be like when he doesn't get his own way.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Just seen an interview on Sky News with a former British Diplomat to North Korea.

What astonished me was when he said that the US doesn't have an Ambassador to South Korea as Trump hasn't appointed one yet, and that there will be many many things which will need to be sorted out before any meeting between Trump & Kim ever takes place, and given that the US is so weak diplomatically in the region, he doesn't think they will be capable of negotiating with the North in arranging all the details, the US simply doesn't have the diplomats on the ground.

 

14 months into his Presidency and he hasn't even appointed an Ambassador to South Korea, an area which has to be amongst one of the most dangerous flashpoint areas in the world and as such you'd think would have experienced diplomats able to handle any flashpoint which might arise and what does the US have, a limited diplomatic presence.

 

 

[Francis Albert]

After all the talk of Trump inviting a nuclear holocaust he has an invite to meet the North Korean leader.

When america had an ambassador in north korea under obama what did that achieve?

[Maple Leaf]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

After all the talk of Trump inviting a nuclear holocaust he has an invite to meet the North Korean leader.

When america had an ambassador in north korea under obama what did that achieve?

My understanding is that this meeting was brokered by the South Koreans.

 

I can just hear the discussion.  "Let's set up a meeting with the North before that clown in Washington gets us all killed."

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

My understanding is that this meeting was brokered by the South Koreans.

 

I can just hear the discussion.  "Let's set up a meeting with the North before that clown in Washington gets us all killed."

Nevertheless a bit of a diplomatic triumph for Trump.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

But who has the bigger hands?

 

[Gorgiewave]

If he got North Korea to denuclearise, would he be praised for it?

 

 

[redjambo]

9 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

If he got North Korea to denuclearise, would he be praised for it?

 

 

 

Yup, and deservedly so. I'm fairly sure that it's not going to happen though, unless there's a lot of hard pragmatic diplomacy done - this isn't the time for grandstanding.

 

Frankly, I'm quite surprised that North Korea has moved in this direction. If this were a film that I was watching, I'd be sitting there thinking "there's something not quite right about all of this" and waiting for the plot twist.

[Gorgiewave]

8 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Yup, and deservedly so. I'm fairly sure that it's not going to happen though, unless there's a lot of hard pragmatic diplomacy done - this isn't the time for grandstanding.

 

Frankly, I'm quite surprised that North Korea has moved in this direction. If this were a film that I was watching, I'd be sitting there thinking "there's something not quite right about all of this" and waiting for the plot twist.

 

Aye, I immediately thought a ruse to assassinate Trump. Probably best not to meet in North Korea.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Aye, I immediately thought a ruse to assassinate Trump. Probably best not to meet in North Korea.

 

That's what I thought too. Toxic nerve agent on a thin layer of plastic on the hand for the handshake perhaps? The thing is, given that it will be a diplomatic meeting of heads of state, how much can Trump's secret service demand that they inspect Kim Jong-un before the meeting itself? Probably not a lot. Could North Korea even substitute a fake Kim Jong-un? It could be a pretty nervy meeting.

[Bindy Badgy]

Hopefully they decide to make him 'disappear'.

[Gorgiewave]

15 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

That's what I thought too. Toxic nerve agent on a thin layer of plastic on the hand for the handshake perhaps? The thing is, given that it will be a diplomatic meeting of heads of state, how much can Trump's secret service demand that they inspect Kim Jong-un before the meeting itself? Probably not a lot. Could North Korea even substitute a fake Kim Jong-un? It could be a pretty nervy meeting.

That would be a sarin.

[The Real Maroonblood]

9 minutes ago, Stokesy said:

Hopefully they decide to make him 'disappear'.

What about Kim?

[Maple Leaf]

If the two wives were to have a discussion, there would be a better chance of a positive outcome.

 

With a meeting between two immature wee laddies, each trying to prove how big and tough he is, I can't imagine anything of substance being agreed to.

[redjambo]

Regarding the steel tariffs, after the EU initially reacted by threatening retaliatory tariffs, Trump admittedly pulled a blinder on them by granting exemptions to Canada and Mexico.

 

What do we have a day later? Both the UK and EU wanting to know if they can be exempted too. 

 

UK - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-43342887/liam-fox-seeks-uk-exemption-from-us-steel-tariff

 

EU - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43358271

 

Divide and conquer, one of the oldest (trade) warfare techniques in the world, and we and the EU have both fallen for it.

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Apparently Trump just popped off at the mouth about a meeting with Kim. Someone has apparently now gotten to him to remind him that NK has been trying to engineer one on one meetings with US Presidents for about 40 years in order to make themselves look like a force to be reckoned with.

 

I'm no expert on NK diplomacy but I follow a couple on twitter. No clue if they're right or not but the consensus I've heard since Jimmy Carter went to NK in the early 1990s is that they almost always want to meet but the standard pattern is 1) get some nuclear capacity they're not supposed to have, 2) engineer a meeting with the US, 3) toss their nuclear capacity in exchange for knowledge transfer with the US, 4) go back to trying to gain nuclear capacity in secret. In the 90s it was heavy water reactors. Now it's bombs and missiles, but the story certainly seems the same.

 

But again I don't follow this extremely closely except in 280 character tidbits so I could be very wrong.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 3/9/2018 at 06:13, Stokesy said:

 

How unpopular if the tax bill amongst Republican voters?

 

I get the impression that there is a certain percentage of the population that will support anything they come out with irrespective of how damaging it is for them personally. 

 

Staunchly Republican voters, which make up a little more than 1/3 of the country, love the tax bill on the whole. Basically everyone else hates it. At least according to about 5 polls I've seen. Whether that ends up costing them at the ballot box remains to be seen.

[Sharpie]

I just watched over an hour of the Trumpster speaking on berhalf of a candidate in Pennsylvania. He spent considerable time telling how wonderful he is, and after more than an hour introduced to the television audience the Candidate.  He again talked about Pocohontas, praised China and Singapore for their death penalty sentences for drugs trafficking, he criticised former Presidents Bush x  2, Clinton and even Ronald Regan. He twice mentioned his wife, I suppose to let every one know that she still loves him even if she was for a while sharing him with a porn star.

 

The man is an egotistical fool, he really has never left his role of The Apprentice, he has the diplomatic skill of a turnip, having criticised many countriees that are or have been strong allies, divulged his conversations with the Mexican President like some goof ball in a bar, to allay any doubts I really do not like the man, find him boorish, and have serious trepidation where he could lead the world into a situation that would be untenable.

[Sharpie]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

Bob...I’m sensing some hostility.

 

No, I love everyone, Peace brother

[Maple Leaf]

28 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

I just watched over an hour of the Trumpster speaking on berhalf of a candidate in Pennsylvania. He spent considerable time telling how wonderful he is, and after more than an hour introduced to the television audience the Candidate.  He again talked about Pocohontas, praised China and Singapore for their death penalty sentences for drugs trafficking, he criticised former Presidents Bush x  2, Clinton and even Ronald Regan. He twice mentioned his wife, I suppose to let every one know that she still loves him even if she was for a while sharing him with a porn star.

 

The man is an egotistical fool, he really has never left his role of The Apprentice, he has the diplomatic skill of a turnip, having criticised many countriees that are or have been strong allies, divulged his conversations with the Mexican President like some goof ball in a bar, to allay any doubts I really do not like the man, find him boorish, and have serious trepidation where he could lead the world into a situation that would be untenable.

I've stopped watching his speeches.  He makes me angrier than I should be over a foreign politician.

 

His decision to lift a ban on trophy hunting of elephants and lions is too ignorant for words.  Are there no depths to which this vile moron cannot sink?

[Sharpie]

4 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

I've stopped watching his speeches.  He makes me angrier than I should be over a foreign politician.

 

His decision to lift a ban on trophy hunting of elephants and lions is too ignorant for words.  Are there no depths to which this vile moron cannot sink?

 

Well ML I have found that when I watch Donald it gives me hope that there is at least one person in the world who might be dumber than me

[milky_26]

7 hours ago, bobsharp said:

 

Well ML I have found that when I watch Donald it gives me hope that there is at least one person in the world who might be dumber than me

that can't be right, doesn't trump have the highest IQ of any person who has ever lived

[John Gentleman]

10 hours ago, Ugly American said:

Apparently Trump just popped off at the mouth about a meeting with Kim. Someone has apparently now gotten to him to remind him that NK has been trying to engineer one on one meetings with US Presidents for about 40 years in order to make themselves look like a force to be reckoned with.

 

I'm no expert on NK diplomacy but I follow a couple on twitter. No clue if they're right or not but the consensus I've heard since Jimmy Carter went to NK in the early 1990s is that they almost always want to meet but the standard pattern is 1) get some nuclear capacity they're not supposed to have, 2) engineer a meeting with the US, 3) toss their nuclear capacity in exchange for knowledge transfer with the US, 4) go back to trying to gain nuclear capacity in secret. In the 90s it was heavy water reactors. Now it's bombs and missiles, but the story certainly seems the same.

 

But again I don't follow this extremely closely except in 280 character tidbits so I could be very wrong.

You're not wrong. The Kim Yongs have a rich family history employing this technique. They've got it down to a fine art form, actually. Just rinse and repeat with every presidential evolution.........

It's the fuel that propels the family dynasty.

[Sharpie]

3 hours ago, milky_26 said:

that can't be right, doesn't trump have the highest IQ of any person who has ever lived

 

Trump is the claimant of your comment that he has the highest IQ of any person who has ever lived , I would suggest that proves my point.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 3/11/2018 at 09:53, bobsharp said:

 

Trump is the claimant of your comment that he has the highest IQ of any person who has ever lived , I would suggest that proves my point.

 

It must be true, because he's also humble in ways we don't understand.

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Ugly American said:

 

It must be true, because he's also humble in ways we don't understand.

 

 

 

Well of course none of us can understand, you've gotta remember he's the cleverest man in the room with a much higher IQ than the rest of us, so how could we possibly understand, we ain't clever enough.

 

Honestly let's face it, it's a good thing Einstein is dead, could you just imagine 'The Donald' & Einstein in the same room, poor old Albert, and as for Freud he'd be at a complete loss in trying to understand what is going on in Trump's head.  

 

We should be so privileged that Donald John Trump has graced our lives with his Genius.

[Sharpie]

I watched the highly intelligent Donald with the Ironworkers when he announced the Tariffs. One of the gtuys had arms on him like tree trunks, the Donald when he introduced him asked you want to arm wrestle. Here is this big out of shape 71 year old I know joking but it was not a good joke.

 

Then he lets another guy talk about his time in the steelworks and how he loves it and how his dad had worked in the same factory for many years.  Donald always the feeling man says, I know he is up there now looking down and is really proud of you, the man responds he is still alive. It was not epic, but just to me sums up the man.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Trump now refusing to back the UK's assessment that Russia was behind the nerve gas attack.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

8 hours ago, Ugly American said:

Trump now refusing to back the UK's assessment that Russia was behind the nerve gas attack.

 

Yip, just what does Russia have on Trump, that makes him so reluctant to say anything bad against them.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/donald-trump-russia_uk_5aa77be6e4b087e5aaed50ec

[deesidejambo]

11 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Well of course none of us can understand, you've gotta remember he's the cleverest man in the room with a much higher IQ than the rest of us, so how could we possibly understand, we ain't clever enough.

 

Honestly let's face it, it's a good thing Einstein is dead, could you just imagine 'The Donald' & Einstein in the same room, poor old Albert, and as for Freud he'd be at a complete loss in trying to understand what is going on in Trump's head.  

 

We should be so privileged that Donald John Trump has graced our lives with his Genius.

His golf courses are decent though.  He should have stuck to them.

[redjambo]

48 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

His golf courses are decent though.  He should have stuck to them.

 

Those in Aberdeenshire, for one, would disagree with that.

[deesidejambo]

4 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Those in Aberdeenshire, for one, would disagree with that.

Sorry but as I am in Aberdeenshire I have to disagree.  True there were a small amount of very well organised protesters but there were also a significant number of supporters (or ambivalents).  As always, the protesters were more vociferous than the supporters.    That said, Trumps behaviour towards the protesters was disgusting.  Google "You've Been Trumped".

 

A couple of the protesters now work in the clubhouse and as green keeping staff.  I've talked to them personally and they are now relatively OK with the development once the housing part of it was dropped.  The original plan was 400 houses- that was the real issue, not the golf course.

 

But the next test comes - Trump has applied to build a second course so here we go again.

 

For golfers -the first course is spectacular, but the designs for the second course look shite.    I get the suspicion that he is somehow writing off US tax against the development costs, because financially the developments are not viable.

 

 

 

 

[redjambo]

Just now, deesidejambo said:

Sorry but as I am in Aberdeenshire I have to disagree.  True there were a small amount of very well organised protesters but there were also a significant number of supporters (or ambivalents).  As always, the protesters were more vociferous than the supporters.    That said, Trumps behaviour towards the protesters was disgusting.  Google "You've Been Trumped".

 

A couple of the protesters now work in the clubhouse and as green keeping staff.  I've talked to them personally and they are now relatively OK with the development once the housing part of it was dropped.  The original plan was 400 houses- that was the real issue, not the golf course.

 

But the next test comes - Trump has applied to build a second course so here we go again.

 

For golfers -the first course is spectacular, but the designs for the second course look shite.    I get the suspicion that he is somehow writing off US tax against the development costs, because financially the developments are not viable.

 

Fair enough, deeside, but the opposition of myself and others was based on the detrimental environmental effects, particularly the loss of protected habitat. Why have SSSI status at all if we can ride roughshod over it?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/08/trump-golf-course-has-ruined-dunes-habitat

[Francis Albert]

10 hours ago, Ugly American said:

Trump now refusing to back the UK's assessment that Russia was behind the nerve gas attack.

It may for once be a case of Trump being cautious and I am not sure I blame him on this. I am not entirely convinced of the UK assessment myself. It just seems an unnecessarily complicated and risky scheme. I am sure the Russians could have done a cleaner and simpler job. 

[redjambo]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

It may for once be a case of Trump being cautious and I am not sure I blame him on this. I am not entirely convinced of the UK assessment myself. It just seems an unnecessarily complicated and risky scheme. I am sure the Russians could have done a cleaner and simpler job. 

 

Perhaps just what they would like us to think.

[deesidejambo]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Fair enough, deeside, but the opposition of myself and others was based on the detrimental environmental effects, particularly the loss of protected habitat. Why have SSSI status at all if we can ride roughshod over it?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/08/trump-golf-course-has-ruined-dunes-habitat

On this I agree.

 

SSSIs, Greenbelts etc are imo sacrosanct.         No exceptions.

 

Whether they are legitimate SSSIs or Greenbelts etc are always debatable, but imo once they have been designated as such, thats it.

 

Aberdeen City Council have designated lots of greenbelt areas and then pish on about how "environmentally friendly" they are, yet they allow huge housing developments on them as Greenbelt apparently is "guidance only".   

 

Trump got his golf course "called in" by the Scottish Govt who then superseded the SSSI restrictions.

 

Who did this?  Step forward Alex Salmond.

[Sharpie]

Tillerson fired, Trump close aide escorted out yesterday , possibly due to security clearance issues. CNN report Tillerson knew it was possible he would be fired, but has not been told officiailly, Trump did Tweet about it .

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

2 hours ago, deesidejambo said:

Alex Salmond

What's he up to, these days? 

[Ibrahim Tall]

5 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

What's he up to, these days? 

 

Rabbiting away on RT last time I seen him.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Just now, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Rabbiting away on RT last time I seen him.

So he is. 

[Ibrahim Tall]

2 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

So he is. 

Galloway too.

We are bought and sold for Russian gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

59 minutes ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

Galloway too.

We are bought and sold for Russian gold. Such a parcel of rogues in a nation.

Aye, Vlad seems to have covered all angles.

[jake]

Ooops

Edited March 13, 2018 by jake

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Well this is going from bad to worse. Tillerson was a terrible Secretary of State but the upshot appears to be that Trump's replacing him with the CIA director and putting a Bush-era torture overseer in charge of the CIA.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/03/14/gina-haspels-nomination-for-cia-director-is-a-test-of-americas-conscience/

 

[Sharpie]

Its nothing to worry about he has ten people, top people, waiting to take any jobs he decides need a change, even General Kelly is apparently on a shoogly peg. I thought his presentation on Saturday for the Pennsylvania election candidate was an absolute joke. Re examining it I realise it was in fact a strategic masterpiece. Trump had a candidate he knew couldn't win, so he spent an hour and ten minutes opening his 2020 campaign, touting himself, then introduced the loser to be for about six minutes at the end. The election result seems to have proven his tactics were good.

 

[Sharpie]

So the President of the United States freely, and it seems with some pride admits that he deliberately lied to the Prime Minister of Canada. Discussions were being had regarding trade between the two countrys. Trump made the statement that Canada was treating the United States very badly  and had a big advantage in the Trade deficiit. He was told that was not true but stuck to his story. The fact is Canada has the deficit, except in the areas of steel and lumber where they have the edge.

 

Trump last night in a talk to supporters admitted he had lied about the facts, stating he had no idea what the situation was, he notoriously does not read briefing books and is limited in preparation practises for public speaking, just an excellent way to prepare for talks with North Koreas, am I the only one who suspects Kim will accuse him of lying at some stage, and state you admit you do it.