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Phil Dunphy
6 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

Aye right Phil.

 

We are done!

 

I’m quite upset, I’m sure. 

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Harry Potter
8 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

This thread should probably be locked and revisited in 2 months.

 

For the moment, SC is not good enough and nothing so far has shown he is.

I played football from aged 7 up to 40 odds at 5s, my confidence levels crippled me a times, 

played sat and sunday games, probably why i never made it, i was good but lacked belief.

At the end at 5s showed skills that would grace any pitch but too late.

Theres a fine line.

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Taffin
1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

And it suits the agenda of others to come up with an alternative scenario - it works both ways you know.

 

Everybody at the game thought he was going to shoot - including Djoume!  When he passed it there was a "WTF" moment in the Wheatfield.

 

50 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

You seem to be the one with the dogmatic desire to slate me for giving my honest opinion. I did not claim to know the thoughts of 18,000 fans - there was however an audible "WTF" moment around me in the Wheatfield when he passed instead of shooting!

 

 

🤔🤔🤔

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Gorgieshed
22 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

I played football from aged 7 up to 40 odds at 5s, my confidence levels crippled me a times, 

played sat and sunday games, probably why i never made it, i was good but lacked belief.

At the end at 5s showed skills that would grace any pitch but too late.

Theres a fine line.

I also played over 20 years at 11s juvenile, East of Scotland and finally amateur.

 

Confidence is a big thing for some players. However, being a professional and getting paid £1,000s a week you should be open to criticism. Big difference to be that good to make a living from it and our levels.

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Harry Potter
2 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

I also played over 20 years at 11s juvenile, East of Scotland and finally amateur.

 

Confidence is a big thing for some players. However, being a professional and getting paid £1,000s a week you should be open to criticism. Big difference to be that good to make a living from it and our levels.

Aye bud, im content with my seat in the new stand , we all had dreams.

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Coolio
1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

You clearly insinuated the criticism of Clare's performances was linked to criticism of other black players - frankly that disgusts me.

 

Not that I need to justify myself to some idiots on here but some of my favourite players at Hearts have been black - De Vries for one, and I'm also a huge fan of Djoume and Uche.

 

I am now out of this discussion so I do not require your reply. Thanks.

 

1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

Aye right Phil.

 

We are done!

 

Just to qualify, do we think Thomaso has gone - as in logged off, or gone as in - no longer taking part in this thread?

 

Either way I assume that means there's an opening for a Drama Queen on this thread. 😏

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Meestah Sahmon
2 hours ago, cruzabic said:

I get that isn't possible, hence why I never said anything like that.

 

"...slowing down and backing into Ambrose"

 

He has to still be moving forwards despite his speed dropping, so how do you move your body forward whilst shifting your weight backwards into a defender?

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Taffin
1 hour ago, Coolio said:

 

 

Just to qualify, do we think Thomaso has gone - as in logged off, or gone as in - no longer taking part in this thread?

 

Either way I assume that means there's an opening for a Drama Queen on this thread. 😏

 

 

I don't agree with Thomaso's opinion on Clare but for someone to insinuate he doesn't like him due to his race is completely unfair. Nothing he has said would suggest that.

 

Poor form in my opinion.

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upgotheheads
2 hours ago, Gorgieshed said:

I also played over 20 years at 11s juvenile, East of Scotland and finally amateur.

 

Confidence is a big thing for some players. However, being a professional and getting paid £1,000s a week you should be open to criticism. Big difference to be that good to make a living from it and our levels.

 

I played my last game at the age of 59.  5-a-side , I was never any good but I remember  that I was quicker and fitter then than some of the fatties  who were thirty years younger than me.

Strangely I was a better player aged 40 than I was aged 14. The reason for that was that all the kids in my street were into cycle speedway and stopped playing football at about the age of 10, the *******s. 

I lost my most formative years.

 

Knackered knees or I would have been playing still.

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SuperstarSteve
18 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

See I just don't get that comparison with Naismith.

Naismith may well have been short of full fitness and match practice last season, however he still scored goals for us, and made telling contributions to the team - as such you could tell he was a quality player.

Apart from 'gliding over the turf' occasionally, and winning a few headers against Hibs we have seen very little to confirm Clare is the quality player his reputation suggests.

Now we all hope Clare comes good, but comparing him with the Naismith situation is with respect nonsense.

 Not comparing the quality of player, totally agree Naismith is of a higher standard. The situation is pretty similar though, regarding a setback injury, lack of pre season and game time. Time will tell if he turns out to be a player or not but the best of Clare won’t arrive until next season I believe, wether his best is good enough is of course yet to be seen. 

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Thomaso
17 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

 

 

🤔🤔🤔

 

16 hours ago, Coolio said:

 

 

Just to qualify, do we think Thomaso has gone - as in logged off, or gone as in - no longer taking part in this thread?

 

Either way I assume that means there's an opening for a Drama Queen on this thread. 😏

 

I'm so pleased you were able to step into the role of Drama Queen in my absence - you were perfectly qualified to do so. :whistling:

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Thomaso
14 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

 

I don't agree with Thomaso's opinion on Clare but for someone to insinuate he doesn't like him due to his race is completely unfair. Nothing he has said would suggest that.

 

Poor form in my opinion.

 

Thanks for that Taffin.  When some on here resort to personal insults it is a sure sign they are losing the debate - or the plot!

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Phil Dunphy
15 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

 

I don't agree with Thomaso's opinion on Clare but for someone to insinuate he doesn't like him due to his race is completely unfair. Nothing he has said would suggest that.

 

Poor form in my opinion.

 

Agreed. People can take a dislike to a player for reasons other than the colour of his skin. But when they move the goalposts to suit their agenda, it becomes quite clear that they’ve got something against him that’s not just down to his current form. 

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franko1874
1 hour ago, SuperstarSteve said:

 Not comparing the quality of player, totally agree Naismith is of a higher standard. The situation is pretty similar though, regarding a setback injury, lack of pre season and game time. Time will tell if he turns out to be a player or not but the best of Clare won’t arrive until next season I believe, wether his best is good enough is of course yet to be seen. 

 

Naismith is also far more experienced and knows the game up here. 

Clare will come good. 

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Thomaso
5 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Agreed. People can take a dislike to a player for reasons other than the colour of his skin. But when they move the goalposts to suit their agenda, it becomes quite clear that they’ve got something against him that’s not just down to his current form. 

 

I asked you before to tell me exactly what I have against Clare rather than his current form. You say it's "quite clear" so spill the beans - but you can't can you because you are talking absolute shite!

 

Don't judge others by your own slimey standards.

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dallan

I didn’t play football to a very high standard but certainly debated it with the best if them....I think Clare will come good...

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Phil Dunphy
3 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

I asked you before to tell me exactly what I have against Clare rather than his current form. You say it's "quite clear" so spill the beans - but you can't can you because you are talking absolute shite!

 

Don't judge others by your own slimey standards.

 

For someone who’s last post complained about personal abuse, your last sentence is sanctimonious as ****. Wind it in. 

 

Others might have accused you of being racist, I have not. If I thought you were, I’d point blank tell you that I did. There are reasons why you don’t like Sean Clare, but don’t tell us it’s purely down to his recent form when you’re skewing things to suit your argument. 

 

Youve been all over the place on this thread. 

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Thomaso
2 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

For someone who’s last post complained about personal abuse, your last sentence is sanctimonious as ****. Wind it in. 

 

Others might have accused you of being racist, I have not. If I thought you were, I’d point blank tell you that I did. There are reasons why you don’t like Sean Clare, but don’t tell us it’s purely down to his recent form when you’re skewing things to suit your argument. 

 

Youve been all over the place on this thread. 

 

No Phil you are the one all over the place, and I suggest you "wind it in".

 

You jumped on another posters insinuation that my comments on Clare's form was due to the colour of his skin, and you have continued with your sly wee open ended comments.

 

I have never said I "don't like" Sean Clare - I have only given my opinion of his playing performances and form.

 

Tell me where exactly am I "skewing things" to suit my opinion??  I'm not holding my breath for a sensible answer from you.

 

So if you don't think my opinion of Clare's current form is based on his colour, then what exactly do you think the reasons are for me "not liking him"??????  Again I don't hold out much hope of a lucid answer. 

 

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Phil Dunphy
Just now, Thomaso said:

You jumped on another posters insinuation that my comments on Clare's form was due to the colour of his skin, and you have continued with your sly wee open ended comments.

 

No, I did not. If I thought you were a racist, I’d just say you were a racist. You’re clearly getting me mixed up with someone else. 

 

What was it you were saying about people resorting to personal abuse losing their argument? 

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Thomaso
Just now, Phil Dunphy said:

 

No, I did not. If I thought you were a racist, I’d just say you were a racist. You’re clearly getting me mixed up with someone else. 

 

What was it you were saying about people resorting to personal abuse losing their argument? 

 

I'm losing no argument.

 

For the umpteenth time, you posted that I disliked Clare for "reasons" other than his current form.

 

You have now clarified that the "reason" was not due to the colour of his skin.

 

So what were the other "reasons" you were referring to????   Come on you must have had an idea when you posted that - let's clear it up now and we can move on.

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Phil Dunphy
1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

When some on here resort to personal insults it is a sure sign they are losing the debate - or the plot!

 

32 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Don't judge others by your own slimey standards.

 

6 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

I'm losing no argument.

 

🤔

 

You tell me what your issue is with Sean Clare. It’s your issue, not mine. I’m just saying it’s clear it’s not about his current form. 

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scott herbertson

It’s human nature to make  premature ‘judgements’ on what we see. I’ve lost count of the number of mistakes I’ve made (going all the way back to the sixties and Harry Kinnear aka  “the new Willie Bauld” and at the same time Kevin Hegarty who I thought was going to be a star for us). At the friendly preseason in Arbroath we saw most of the new players and my assessment on the basis of half a game each was

 

Uche- clumsy and cant control the ball but a big unit and maybe a useful impact sub but never a first team starter

 

Edwards - -has some skill, some things come off but some don’t. A truer and will probably feature regularly

 

Burns -  - loads of energy intelligencevand hard worker - future Colin Cameron type midfielder

 

mulraney - a star - in the Bobby Prentice mode plus amazing speed - had their ful backs on toast

 

Lee - pretty anonymous - not much impact on the game- squad player

 

Bozanic - small, trier, game passed him by other than one shot - back up only 

 

Keena - real handful plus great attitude - one for  the future

 

Callachan - excellent, should make a regular place

 

Haring - poor ball control, misplaced passes. Doesn’t look good enough despite hairband 

 

Smith - good wing back presenting attacking thread. Poorer defensively

 

Baur - too many errors

 

Crawford - great - get him signed. Controlled the game

 

petkov - ok

 

 

 

so I was about 70% wrong and my opinions after a few more games would have been different, especially about Uche 

 

coming up up to the present day I don’t think much of either Wighton or Clare so far. I just don’t see the strength to make an impact from either of them but clearly the management sees potential and that’s fine. They have both been bought as longer term development potential and both or neither may or may not make it. Both could do with a good goal to get the crowd on their side as both seem to lack confidence at present.

 

oh and it is nonsense to characterise or imply Thomaso’s comments as racist. People are allowed opinions and unless they are obviously stereotyping on the basis of race then it shouldn’t be assumed as a motivation

 

 

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Thomaso
3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

 

 

🤔

 

You tell me what your issue is with Sean Clare. It’s your issue, not mine. I’m just saying it’s clear it’s not about his current form. 

 

Still no answer from you - what a surprise.

 

I have already told you what my issue is with Clare. My only issue with Clare is his current form and past performances - that is clearly stated in all the posts I have made.

 

You are telling everyone my issue with him is NOT about his current form and past performances.  You say this is "clear" - well if it's that clear then tell us what issue you think it was when you made his statement??

 

No beating about the bush now - just give us a straight answer.

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Thomaso
1 minute ago, scott herbertson said:

It’s human nature to make  premature ‘judgements’ on what we see. I’ve lost count of the number of mistakes I’ve made (going all the way back to the sixties and Harry Kinnear aka  “the new Willie Bauld” and at the same time Kevin Hegarty who I thought was going to be a star for us). At the friendly preseason in Arbroath we saw most of the new players and my assessment on the basis of half a game each was

 

Uche- clumsy and cant control the ball but a big unit and maybe a useful impact sub but never a first team starter

 

Edwards - -has some skill, some things come off but some don’t. A truer and will probably feature regularly

 

Burns -  - loads of energy intelligencevand hard worker - future Colin Cameron type midfielder

 

mulraney - a star - in the Bobby Prentice mode plus amazing speed - had their ful backs on toast

 

Lee - pretty anonymous - not much impact on the game- squad player

 

Bozanic - small, trier, game passed him by other than one shot - back up only 

 

Keena - real handful plus great attitude - one for  the future

 

Callachan - excellent, should make a regular place

 

Haring - poor ball control, misplaced passes. Doesn’t look good enough despite hairband 

 

Smith - good wing back presenting attacking thread. Poorer defensively

 

Baur - too many errors

 

Crawford - great - get him signed. Controlled the game

 

petkov - ok

 

 

 

so I was about 70% wrong and my opinions after a few more games would have been different, especially about Uche 

 

coming up up to the present day I don’t think much of either Wighton or Clare so far. I just don’t see the strength to make an impact from either of them but clearly the management sees potential and that’s fine. They have both been bought as longer term development potential and both or neither may or may not make it. Both could do with a good goal to get the crowd on their side as both seem to lack confidence at present.

 

oh and it is nonsense to characterise or imply Thomaso’s comments as racist. People are allowed opinions and unless they are obviously stereotyping on the basis of race then it shouldn’t be assumed as a motivation

 

 

 

Must admit Scott I thought Uche and Haring were very poor in the pre-season game.

 

My initial view was based on one game, however after seeing them play in around half dozen games it was clear they were cracking signings.

 

My view of Clare and Wighton however is not based on one game. In Clare's case it is 12 games.  Let's hope both can reach the potential we are told they are capable of.

 

Thanks for your final comment - you will note some on here have quickly back tracked on this.

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Phil Dunphy
6 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

Still no answer from you - what a surprise.

 

I have already told you what my issue is with Clare. My only issue with Clare is his current form and past performances - that is clearly stated in all the posts I have made.

 

You are telling everyone my issue with him is NOT about his current form and past performances.  You say this is "clear" - well if it's that clear then tell us what issue you think it was when you made his statement??

 

No beating about the bush now - just give us a straight answer.

 

I never said it was clear what your issue was. I said it was clear what it wasn’t. You then accused me of calling you a racist, which I’m still waiting on you apologising for. Not that you will, you’ll bleat on about personal abuse while dishing it out at the same time. 

 

Anyone who's watched Sean Clare since he came into the side will tell you the same thing. He’s getting better every game as he grows in confidence. Well, anyone who’s not overly critical on the boy for one reason or another. 

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Phil Dunphy
1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

Thanks for your final comment - you will note some on here have quickly back tracked on this.

 

Hard to backtrack on something you’ve never done, tbf. 

 

Bit odd how desperate you are for folk to have called you a racist. 

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bobskeldon
52 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

For someone who’s last post complained about personal abuse, your last sentence is sanctimonious as ****. Wind it in. 

 

Others might have accused you of being racist, I have not. If I thought you were, I’d point blank tell you that I did. There are reasons why you don’t like Sean Clare, but don’t tell us it’s purely down to his recent form when you’re skewing things to suit your argument. 

 

Youve been all over the place on this thread. 

Forget all the cryptic nonsense! Thomaso is telling you he has an opinion on SC based on his poor displays (I hold even stronger negative views on SC). You say there are 'reasons' why he doesn't like him, what exactly are you saying? 

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scott herbertson
8 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

Must admit Scott I thought Uche and Haring were very poor in the pre-season game.

 

My initial view was based on one game, however after seeing them play in around half dozen games it was clear they were cracking signings.

 

My view of Clare and Wighton however is not based on one game. In Clare's case it is 12 games.  Let's hope both can reach the potential we are told they are capable of.

 

Thanks for your final comment - you will note some on here have quickly back tracked on this.

 

 

That’s kind of what I was saying - first impressions often wrong, after a few more games firming up , but still not usually enough to be definite. Sharing opinions on the quality of players is half the fun of attending the games - pubs would be fairly silent after if we couldn’t do that. With the written word people should be a bit more circumspect, but can still give their opinions.

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Mr Elwood P

This thread will be getting ‘bumped’ at the end of the season one way or another ... probably the only solid conclusion to be drawn at this point in time.

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Gorgieshed
6 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

Anyone who's watched Sean Clare since he came into the side will tell you the same thing. He’s getting better every game as he grows in confidence. Well, anyone who’s not overly critical on the boy for one reason or another. 

 

I've watched the majority of Clare's games and disagree. I've not seen anything to suggest he is getting better.

 

Obviously not allowed that opinion without having an agenda according to you. 

 

ps. I don't think anyone is accusing anyone of being racist. There was a post suggesting the boo boys see to be a certain race (which is nonsense) but not intended at anyone specific.

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Phil Dunphy
1 minute ago, bobskeldon said:

Forget all the cryptic nonsense! Thomaso is telling you he has an opinion on SC based on his poor displays (I hold even stronger negative views on SC). You say there are 'reasons' why he doesn't like him, what exactly are you saying? 

 

See above. 

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Phil Dunphy
Just now, Gorgieshed said:

 

I've watched the majority of Clare's games and disagree. I've not seen anything to suggest he is getting better.

 

Obviously not allowed that opinion without having an agenda according to you. 

 

ps. I don't think anyone is accusing anyone of being racist. There was a post suggesting the boo boys see to be a certain race (which is nonsense) but not intended at anyone specific.

 

Yup, I stand by that. Anyone who doesn’t recognise that he’s improving every game and that there’s clearly a player in there has made their minds up based on other factors. 

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bobskeldon
10 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I never said it was clear what your issue was. I said it was clear what it wasn’t. You then accused me of calling you a racist, which I’m still waiting on you apologising for. Not that you will, you’ll bleat on about personal abuse while dishing it out at the same time. 

 

Anyone who's watched Sean Clare since he came into the side will tell you the same thing. He’s getting better every game as he grows in confidence. Well, anyone who’s not overly critical on the boy for one reason or another. 

I have watched SC every game, home and away since he arrived and I DO NOT think he is "getting better"! He may look slightly fitter than a few weeks ago but there is no improvement in his game!

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Thomaso
Just now, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I never said it was clear what your issue was. I said it was clear what it wasn’t. You then accused me of calling you a racist, which I’m still waiting on you apologising for. Not that you will, you’ll bleat on about personal abuse while dishing it out at the same time. 

 

Anyone who's watched Sean Clare since he came into the side will tell you the same thing. He’s getting better every game as he grows in confidence. Well, anyone who’s not overly critical on the boy for one reason or another. 

 

What's this guff "I never said it was clear what your issue was. I said it was clear what it wasn't"????

 

I have clearly stated in many posts that my opinion of Clare is purely based on his current form and past performance.  You have said this clearly wasn't - so tell us what you think the reason were to allow you to reach this conclusion - or were you just flying a kite???

 

Anybody reading the tone and content of your posts will see I have nothing to apologise for. When pushed you confirmed you did not think my "reason" for not liking Clare was not because of the colour of his skin. Thanks for the clarification. 

 

 

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Dalstonjambo
Posted (edited)

Find it weird how people cannot see an improvement in both fitness and play.

Is he good enough currently? No
Does he look like the player we hoped/he was made out to be? Definitely not - miles away in fact.
Is there a player in there? I would say so, but can see why people are frustrated. 

But still clear to me he is improving, and the manager likes him. Therefore let's get behind him. 

Edited by Dalstonjambo

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bobskeldon
1 minute ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Yup, I stand by that. Anyone who doesn’t recognise that he’s improving every game and that there’s clearly a player in there has made their minds up based on other factors. 

You just can't help yourself can you? You are doing it again, I think he is murder based on seeing him 'live' every game he has played.

This opinion is based on me watching him, what other "factors" are you suggesting I might be using to formulate this opinion? Just answer the question, please!!

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Thomaso
2 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Yup, I stand by that. Anyone who doesn’t recognise that he’s improving every game and that there’s clearly a player in there has made their minds up based on other factors. 

 

Hilarious!!!! :fonzie:

 

What exactly are these mysterious "factors"????????

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Phil Dunphy
2 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

 

What's this guff "I never said it was clear what your issue was. I said it was clear what it wasn't"????

 

I have clearly stated in many posts that my opinion of Clare is purely based on his current form and past performance.  You have said this clearly wasn't - so tell us what you think the reason were to allow you to reach this conclusion - or were you just flying a kite???

 

Anybody reading the tone and content of your posts will see I have nothing to apologise for. When pushed you confirmed you did not think my "reason" for not liking Clare was not because of the colour of his skin. Thanks for the clarification. 

 

 

 

Hypocrisy is an ugly trait Thomaso. Don’t let it consume you. 

 

1 minute ago, bobskeldon said:

You just can't help yourself can you? You are doing it again, I think he is murder based on seeing him 'live' every game he has played.

This opinion is based on me watching him, what other "factors" are you suggesting I might be using to formulate this opinion? Just answer the question, please!!

 

That’s for you to decide.

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bobskeldon
Just now, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Hypocrisy is an ugly trait Thomaso. Don’t let it consume you. 

 

 

That’s for you to decide.

I have decided you are either 12 years old or a complete fool!

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Thomaso
Just now, bobskeldon said:

I have decided you are either 12 years old or a complete fool!

 

Maybe both Bob.

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Phil Dunphy

The ‘We Hate Sean Clare’ club have got their pitch forks out, I see. 

 

:laugh:

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Phil Dunphy
1 minute ago, bobskeldon said:

I have decided you are either 12 years old or a complete fool!

 

Personal abuse is against forum rules, Bob. I’d post exactly what I thought of you, but that would also be against forum rules. 

 

:)

 

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Notts1874

If you can't see that Clare is improving you are either at it or stand with your back to the game.

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Thomaso
Just now, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Hypocrisy is an ugly trait Thomaso. Don’t let it consume you. 

 

 

That’s for you to decide.

 

Still can't give us a straight answer Phil. :whistling: 

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Thomaso
1 minute ago, Phil Dunphy said:

The ‘We Hate Sean Clare’ club have got their pitch forks out, I see. 

 

:laugh:

 

Now posting anything old nonsense to deflect from the fact that he can't answer a straight forward question.

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Smithee

This thread

:facepalm:

 

Grown men ffs

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Gorgieshed

Has anyone seen Phil Dunphy and Sean Clare in the same room? 🤷‍♂️

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Phil Dunphy
1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

 

Still can't give us a straight answer Phil. :whistling: 

 

Still can’t apologise for accusing me of calling you a racist, I see. 

 

Shame. 

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Thomaso
10 minutes ago, Dalstonjambo said:

Find it weird how people cannot see an improvement in both fitness and play.

Is he good enough currently? No
Does he look like the player we hoped/he was made out to be? Definitely not - miles away in fact.
Is there a player in there? I would say so, but can see why people are frustrated. 

But still clear to me he is improving, and the manager likes him. Therefore let's get behind him. 

 

Good post.

 

For the record at get behind all Hearts players at the game - that does preclude me from discussing the current performances of players in the pub or JKB.

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Coolio
1 hour ago, Thomaso said:

 

 

I'm so pleased you were able to step into the role of Drama Queen in my absence - you were perfectly qualified to do so. :whistling:

 

:touche:             

 

Thank you . Is it safe to assume from your reply that you took my post in the way that I had intended it, namely as a joke to diffuse a conversation that had been getting more than a tad close to the bone. I, in no way, found your comments racist.

 

This thread is full of differing opinions of which there comes a time when extremes NEED to agree to disagree.

 

FWIW I don't think SC has been anything special and as others have said any improvement may be down simply to improved fitness levels. That said though, CL believes there is a player in SC so I'll give hime a fair bit longer to prove it. 

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