***The Official Dundee V Heart of Midlothian Match Thread***

[sadj]

25 minutes ago, deejtee said:

7 by my calculation but we all know that some of them are over the hill and some are not high ranking countries. Bear in mind we used to have Noring who was an international for what that was worth. 

I actually think that we could have 11 full internationals at the moment we’d be up and down if we’d had the same preseason and July. We have no continuity , a team with players playing through injuries or in and out injured. We do play some nice stuff but lack energy and drive and thats not coming back til after the summer imo. We see sparks occasionally but they can’t be sustained. I think we could get more out of the team but its a lot of square pegs at times just now.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Morgan said:

Reasonable team selection, considering the options.

 

Shite performance.

Concise as always. I had high hopes after that opening two minutes. Looked up for it and creative. After that 50/50 until KL got taken out after that just felt like it was going to be one of those days again. Roll on the summer. 

 

What about Amankwaa on the left to balance Hughes and Cowie on the right balancing Godinho. People seem to think we ahould of had Amankwaa on the right I think we’d of been even worse. Looked better when we went 3 at the back but we just don’t have the options and Adao playing like Murdo McLeod after his head knock didnt help. 

[Enzo Chiefo]

46 minutes ago, sadj said:

 

Yeah the first team is struggling. IC put us on the backfoot with his preseason and the unbalanced nature of the squad he had. Randall a RB being signed as a CM being an example. The preseason meant players picking up niggly injuries all season. Kids to try and give us energy and its been a piss poor campaign. However the transfer window in january was encouraging and with another window and a proper preseason I hope we will be where we should be. 

 

We are targetting quality. Of the guys who came in in January I wouldn’t say anyone was a failure. Amankwaa has prob been the worst and even at that hes shown good touch and has shown he obviously has ability.  

 

Therefore , Ripping everything up is a big no from me. We have the makings of a good team based on a solid spine it needs turned into a reality and if that doesn’t happen questions need asked not before.

The pre-season is in no way to blame for our niggly injuries.  Absolute nonsense. They are caused by the way they are being trained and prepared on a daily basis. We don't need to rip up the squad, we just need a couple of additions brought in by a new, positive, ambitious manager. Some of the youngsters may make a difference in a year or 2 but some others won't make the grade. Relying on 16 and 17 year olds to control, dominate or change games is ludicrous 

[Enzo Chiefo]

6 minutes ago, sadj said:

I actually think that we could have 11 full internationals at the moment we’d be up and down if we’d had the same preseason and July. We have no continuity , a team with players playing through injuries or in and out injured. We do play some nice stuff but lack energy and drive and thats not coming back til after the summer imo. We see sparks occasionally but they can’t be sustained. I think we could get more out of the team but its a lot of square pegs at times just now.

Much as you want to blame Ian Cathro for everything from our injuries, poor performances and possibly even Brexit, you should note that we misjudged our pre season preparation the year before too. Source? Craig Levein . Yes, the great man himself admitted that they misjudged our preparations before the Euro games. Perhaps our DOF needs to grow a pair and start taking responsibility for the football department that he is paid handsomely to run.

[sadj]

24 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

The pre-season is in no way to blame for our niggly injuries.  Absolute nonsense. They are caused by the way they are being trained and prepared on a daily basis. We don't need to rip up the squad, we just need a couple of additions brought in by a new, positive, ambitious manager. Some of the youngsters may make a difference in a year or 2 but some others won't make the grade. Relying on 16 and 17 year olds to control, dominate or change games is ludicrous 

I’ll assume from that you have never seen first hand the effect a poor preseason can have and how when you pick up one niggly injury it just snowballs , I have thats why I think its not nonsense and is a factor. But i guess we will agree to disagree. 

No , we shouldn’t be relying on 16 and 17 year olds to change games or give us energy but thats unfortunately how this season has been. Demi , Adao and in bursts Milinkovic are probably the only others who have also been able to do that. That is not acceptable. Right now Im staying with give Levein the window and see what happens. 

[sadj]

10 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Much as you want to blame Ian Cathro for everything from our injuries, poor performances and possibly even Brexit, you should note that we misjudged our pre season preparation the year before too. Source? Craig Levein . Yes, the great man himself admitted that they misjudged our preparations before the Euro games. Perhaps our DOF needs to grow a pair and start taking responsibility for the football department that he is paid handsomely to run.

Don’t be a smartass... Ian Cathro got the players he wanted and got to do the preseason he wanted. That has really screwed us this season. Playing footsie instead of beasting yourself preseason makes a noticeable difference unfortunately. If all games were played ala the Newcastle game we would be laughing. Think how people were reacting to that performance and looking forward to the season. Soon as a competitive game hits were off the pace. 

What we are doing at Youth level is good but that takes time to filter through. That is also Leveins remit and a bit he’s getting right. He needs to sort the mess at first team level and i think he needs the trust of that window and put us back on track. If he doesn’t then his position at both points becomes untenable. 

[McCrae]

2 hours ago, Gambo said:

The starting 11 had 6 internationalist, u21 captain, a goalie in international squad.

The bench was full of promising youngsters we all rave about.

Not a great reflection on CL if that is the best he can get out of them.

 

We have half a decent team.... weak in midfield. This will be sorted for next season.

[McCrae]

2 hours ago, The White Cockade said:

do you reckon Kilmarnock and Dundee etc have a better group of players than us?

 

We have some individuals that are better.... but we have too many kids playing, this is a critical weakness 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

We have half a decent team.... weak in midfield. This will be sorted for next season.

Indeed we lack quality beside Adao. 

[McCrae]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

McLaughlin, Berra, Souttar, Lafferty and  Naismith would walk into every other SPL bar Celtic. We have a good squad but if we play at a slow pace , defend deep and sit off our opponents we are simply not playing to our strength.  None of our new signings in the summer, for financial reasons, will be anywhere near the quality of the 5 named, therefore, how will things improve if we continue to pursue the same tactics next season.??

 

 

What about the rest of the players?

 

i think we have a great base to build on... and I have faith CL will deliver.  

[Debut 4]

Less hunger than Dundee.  Little threat from the wide areas, some technically poor play in key moments or set pieces. 

 

Our alleged better players posted missing.

 

Terrible performance. Nothing to do with Cathro or waiting 5 years on youth coming through.

[Cruyff Turn]

11 minutes ago, McCrae said:

 

We have half a decent team.... weak in midfield. This will be sorted for next season.

Weaker than St Johnstone or Ross County?

 

I wouldn't say so. 

 

[Shanks]

Just another shite boring performance to add to a shite boring season.  Why not at least have a go at teams?  We have literally nothing to play for so may as well entertain the fans away from home (for once!!!) 

[Big Slim Stylee]

1 hour ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

Yes, he is a diver, you're a rodent who's boring the shit out of me, you were making fun of the mentally disabled, you can't go a single sentence without you and your rodent lackey sadsackj embarrassing yourselves. Hope this was simple for you both to understand. Off now, toodle pip.

 

Shine on you crazy crazy rodent diamonds.

 

Christ you're coming off a bit of a sad sack here.

[mitch41]

8 hours ago, BigDave'sHeed said:

 

I

Murder...

 

 

Aye, no dramatization here.

 

Ffs

 

Now come on you know it's a figure of speech or do you come from Timbuktu.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Just watched the highlights and felt we were fairly lucky to get a point in the end, but how the **** is that not a penalty on Lafferty? 

 

If that's a Celtic or Rangers player going down like that, it's given all day long (as was proven with the huns penalty yesterday), and that little bastiid Michael Stewart is on there saying it wasn't a spot kick ffs, god I hate that weegie arse licking prick! (His comments defending Scott Brown earlier were vomit inducing, no mention of how much he deserves it and how he's dished the same shit out over the years so should expect some back or anything) 

 

Why do they all eventuality turn into weegie arse lickers? 

[sadj]

54 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Less hunger than Dundee.  Little threat from the wide areas, some technically poor play in key moments or set pieces. 

 

Our alleged better players posted missing.

 

Terrible performance. Nothing to do with Cathro or waiting 5 years on youth coming through.

You firmly believe the piss poor preseason and unbalanced squad has nothing to do with IC? Forgetting CL for a minute and any blame he does or does not shoulder. 

 

If your unfit the first that goes is touch , you can be a weeble and read the game you cant be unfit and keep you ball control up to the level it is normally.

 

some of the balls we triedto play today wetr hopeless. We offered more out wide from Godinho and in flashes from Amankwaa. Naismith played one of the crosses of the game , than weve seen in weeks. Up until Dundees equaliser it was end to end and we created chances. After that it was a boring watch. Which better players were posted missing and how were they. Naismith and Laff were all over the pitch but we couldnt get the ball to them where we needed too. Adao was fine til he went Murdo McLeod. Team was bang average as it has been most of the season. We lack sustained energy and drive and that wont be sorted til preseason.

[sadj]

6 minutes ago, johnmitchell said:

Just watched the highlights and felt we were fairly lucky to get a point in the end, but how the **** is that not a penalty on Lafferty? 

 

If that's a Celtic or Rangers player going down like that, it's given all day long (as was proven with the huns penalty yesterday), and that little bastiid Michael Stewart is on there saying it wasn't a spot kick ffs, god I hate that weegie arse licking prick! (His comments defending Scott Brown earlier were vomit inducing, no mention of how much he deserves it and how he's dished the same shit out over the years so should expect some back or anything) 

 

Why do they all eventuality turn into weegie arse lickers? 

Hundred percent Laffs was a pen , Deacons wasn’t even Kris Commons n Kris Boyd agreed on those. Michael Stewart likes his controversy. Dundee played really well today theyve played like that a lot this season but didnt ahow the same frailty today as they have most of the season. They should of beaten hibs at dens , did beat Rangers , probably should of at least drawn with Aberdeen. (Thats the ones iv watched in full). We lack energy. Dundee pretty much did what Rangers did let us come on to them a bit then pinged it over or through and chased til we were on the back foot. Once we are we struggle to get off it. Roll on summer

[John Gentleman]

10 hours ago, Smithee said:

That wasn't much fun at all. It's not looking good for Amankwaa either, he did absolutely nothing

I think Copenhagen were just pleased to get rid of him for a spell. Even Levein said it was "a bit of a risk".

So, what we're getting is exactly as described on the tin. No surprises then.

[Kiwidoug]

Please refer page 4.  What on earth went wrong for the next 90 minutes?

 

Am I going to spend my remaining time on the planet angry and/or depressed?

[i8hibsh]

I think we need to get police crime scene tape and cordon off the entire middle third of the park for our next game. That entire area is full of thieves. 4 players stealing wages from our club week in week out. I had high hopes for Amankwaa, but alas he is shite. Cowie today was back to his old self, that being shite. Callachan grafted but if one midfielder busts his balls in that dross he will be blowing out his arse after 10 minutes covering for his loser colleagues. Why is Levein not sorting this? Is there actually any fan who does not see what our main problem is? We quite literally have no midfield. If we played with 6 in the middle v a team with 3 we would still get bossed. Even Adao today was piss poor. **** me, how do we sort this? I would say by Nottingham Forrest, Liverpool mid 1970s recruitment but I can't see it.

[McCrae]

7 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Weaker than St Johnstone or Ross County?

 

I wouldn't say so. 

 

 

Stronger than Celtic? 

 

I wouldn”t say so.

 

 The table doesn’t lie... our team is performing average in the league and I would say this is a fair assessment of our squad this year.

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 hours ago, McCrae said:

 

We have half a decent team.... weak in midfield. This will be sorted for next season.

 

It had better be sorted. 

[McCrae]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It had better be sorted. 

 

Agreed. If it’s not CL will be in trouble. 

[cameron79]

We had a 4 on 1 break in the second half and we didn't even manage to get a shot on goal from it. That sums up how we play as a team. Lack of left backs or a poor preseasons (it's now April ffs) shouldn't be a factor in managing basic football tasks .

 

I have lost faith in the coaching staff, to me it seems that they coach the football out of players which creates performances which are so frustrating as a fan. And dont get me started on our set pieces.

 

A comprehensive pre-season and a balanced squad may change that but I have my doubts. I hope they are unfounded.

[letsalldothebeattie]

While I agree with everyone saying we have a weak midfield that needs sorted I noticed yesterday again we don’t have a striking option to come off the bench to get us a goal. We played our only 2 available “strikers” yesterday from the start in Lafferty and Naismith and we had 1 goalkeeper & 6 (SIX) midfielders on the bench yesterday. How can you expect your team to turn a game when you don’t have a striker on the bench to come on and grab a winner.

[Gambo]

We were told by the Craig Levein can do no wrong Clan when he took over the managers job officially that we would bust a gut every game, Levein will not allow poor performances away from home, Levein would make sure we turned up at Easter Road etc, now we are to believe Levein will get it right next season?

[wavydavy]

26 minutes ago, Gambo said:

We were told by the Craig Levein can do no wrong Clan when he took over the managers job officially that we would bust a gut every game, Levein will not allow poor performances away from home, Levein would make sure we turned up at Easter Road etc, now we are to believe Levein will get it right next season?

 

And maybe even in to the next again because he has had to sort out the mess left by Cathro 

No wonder Levein has a smile on his face he has sold a dummy to AB the rest of the board and the majority of the Hearts fans.

[1874robbo]

40 minutes ago, letsalldothebeattie said:

While I agree with everyone saying we have a weak midfield that needs sorted I noticed yesterday again we don’t have a striking option to come off the bench to get us a goal. We played our only 2 available “strikers” yesterday from the start in Lafferty and Naismith and we had 1 goalkeeper & 6 (SIX) midfielders on the bench yesterday. How can you expect your team to turn a game when you don’t have a striker on the bench to come on and grab a winner.

Henderson is a striker.

[wavydavy]

37 minutes ago, letsalldothebeattie said:

While I agree with everyone saying we have a weak midfield that needs sorted I noticed yesterday again we don’t have a striking option to come off the bench to get us a goal. We played our only 2 available “strikers” yesterday from the start in Lafferty and Naismith and we had 1 goalkeeper & 6 (SIX) midfielders on the bench yesterday. How can you expect your team to turn a game when you don’t have a striker on the bench to come on and grab a winner.

 

When you look at that starting team yesterday apart from Mitchell and possibly Djoum that was probably our best starting eleven.

 

Folk are saying hopefully we can keep Naismith, Adao, Milinkovic and Mitchell but are they all really pulling their weight.

 

On paper those players are much better than the starting Dundee team however we were totally outplayed by them after we scored which suggests to me that the problem lies with the Coaches not the players.

 

Look at what Clarke has done at Killie with a poorer squad than ours and imagine what he could have done at Hearts with these players we have.

 

The team are being Coached most of the week by Daly, Fox etc and Levein shows face later in the week to discuss tactics which have already been worked out for him by Austin McPhee.

[jambopilms]

We have been shit away from home for all bar a few seasons in the 30 something years I have been a supporter. I do wonder if more than a few were spoilt by the championship season. I'm not saying we are good or shouldn't be better but the sheer outrage of a draw away from home baffles me. its not accepting mediocrity either, a term only ever heard on KB. 

[rmreido]

Levein will never turn it round, players will change, but I'm afraid the tactics won't. That's probably Hearts last point of the season imo

[IveSeenTheLight]

6 minutes ago, rmreido said:

Levein will never turn it round, players will change, but I'm afraid the tactics won't. That's probably Hearts last point of the season imo

 

Really gutted you didn’t win yesterday.

Motherwell will be up for the fight tomorrow night against us, hoping for the win and that we beat you on Saturday to give them hope of top 6.

Now we have two tough away games to try and go into the split ahead of SevCo

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

25 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Henderson is a striker.

If that's the case, can we bring back Gary Glen? This kid is destined for Berwick Rangers.

[1874robbo]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

If that's the case, can we bring back Gary Glen? This kid is destined for Berwick Rangers.

Personally myself I think the laddie will develop in to a decent player.

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, cameron79 said:

We had a 4 on 1 break in the second half and we didn't even manage to get a shot on goal from it. That sums up how we play as a team. Lack of left backs or a poor preseasons (it's now April ffs) shouldn't be a factor in managing basic football tasks .

 

I have lost faith in the coaching staff, to me it seems that they coach the football out of players which creates performances which are so frustrating as a fan. And dont get me started on our set pieces.

 

A comprehensive pre-season and a balanced squad may change that but I have my doubts. I hope they are unfounded.

Look at the attempted corner set-piece and the fluffed 2 on 1 in the 2nd half as examples of our lack of composure and competency on the ball.

 

In the case of the latter, we should be ending the move by making the goalie work at a minimum.  

[maroonlegions]

9 hours ago, johnmitchell said:

Just watched the highlights and felt we were fairly lucky to get a point in the end, but how the **** is that not a penalty on Lafferty? 

 

If that's a Celtic or Rangers player going down like that, it's given all day long (as was proven with the huns penalty yesterday), and that little bastiid Michael Stewart is on there saying it wasn't a spot kick ffs, god I hate that weegie arse licking prick! (His comments defending Scott Brown earlier were vomit inducing, no mention of how much he deserves it and how he's dished the same shit out over the years so should expect some back or anything) 

 

Why do they all eventuality turn into weegie arse lickers? 

 

 

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

6 minutes ago, 1874robbo said:

Personally myself I think the laddie will develop in to a decent player.

I will agree to disagree. He looks lost out there.

[Ministry]

12 hours ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

What does the Northern Ireland video have to do with his supposedly diving week in week out for us? 

 

Have you answered the question you were asked several times yet? 

 

If you stay up much later mummy will pop down to the basement and tell you off. Don't say I didn't warn you. 

Out of interest, how old are you?

[Wilmslow Jambo]

I've not read all of this thread so I don't know if the following point has already been made.  I watched the game on Sky and couldn't believe the number of times I witnessed a Dundee player with the ball in his own half and not a Hearts player in view.  Then, when the ball was moved forward and the camara swung towards the Hearts goal, there they were, all 11 Hearts players packed into the final third.  More often than not, we seem to be on the back foot rather than (with the exception of the Celtic game) getting on the front foot by getting in teams faces in their half.

[martoon]

1 hour ago, maroonlegions said:

 

 

 

 

 

What kind of football fan relishes and enjoys the violence and pain inflicted on a player... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Juanjo15]

We’re a team in transition things will improve.  Seriously the amount of spitting the dummies out after yesterday is mental.  

[Lucille's Thirsty]

15 hours ago, mitch41 said:

Challenging for trophies is different from winning trophies. Do you understand now. 

 

Correct. When’s the last time we challenged for trophies but didn’t win? League Cup defeat to St Mirren 2013? In my lifetime apart from winning cups we’ve rarely even got to a semi? You’re perhaps a little older than me so you could enlighten me. I’m not having a go. 

[Lucille's Thirsty]

17 hours ago, amadjambo said:

Fair enough. But he is a shining light in midfield. Someone with a bit of class and creativity. Nobody else in the squad comes close.

 

Agreed. We are in bad shape in midfield and I’ve said that all season we shouldn’t be relying on Cochrane albeit he’s talented. I think we need at least 3 midfielders to even get close to a decent midfield.

[Cruyff Turn]

6 hours ago, McCrae said:

 

Stronger than Celtic? 

 

I wouldn”t say so.

 

 The table doesn’t lie... our team is performing average in the league and I would say this is a fair assessment of our squad this year.

I'd say its because Levein is ultra negative and over cautious.

[JamboAl]

44 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said:

We’re a team in transition things will improve.  Seriously the amount of spitting the dummies out after yesterday is mental.  

We are indeed in transition but that doesn't tell the whole story.  We have been afflicted with injuries, some bad ones, which restricts team selection and format.

Two of our most experienced MFs (Djoum, Prince) are out while at FB our two fastest players (Brandon, Mitchell) seriously reduce pace options particularly in a 3-5-2 set up.

M. Smith also called off yesterday and his versatility at FB, CD and MF can be particularly helpful.

I do not wish to condone the quality of football we have played but with a third of the squad missing I think we need some perspective.

[Gambo]

We are still in transition 4 yrs into a 5 yr plan.

Not going great is it.

[Juanjo15]

10 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

We are indeed in transition but that doesn't tell the whole story.  We have been afflicted with injuries, some bad ones, which restricts team selection and format.

Two of our most experienced MFs (Djoum, Prince) are out while at FB our two fastest players (Brandon, Mitchell) seriously reduce pace options particularly in a 3-5-2 set up.

M. Smith also called off yesterday and his versatility at FB, CD and MF can be particularly helpful.

I do not wish to condone the quality of football we have played but with a third of the squad missing I think we need some perspective.

I totally agree. 

[Juanjo15]

4 minutes ago, Gambo said:

We are still in transition 4 yrs into a 5 yr plan.

Not going great is it.

 

Not it isn’t .  That’s why Craig is in the dugout again as I suspect an admission of such.  I didn’t expect an instant turnaround to be honest and what hasn’t been a good season will be much better next. 

[JamboAl]

5 minutes ago, Gambo said:

We are still in transition 4 yrs into a 5 yr plan.

Not going great is it.

The 5 years are not up yet  but maybe top 6 was part of the plan at the end of year 4.  Plans don't always come off - they are things to aim for.  Have all your plans succeeded?

We skated the Championship in year 1 but I doubt if anyone thought that was part of the plan, especially with Rangers and Hibs in the same league, so you can see plans can fluctuate year by year.