ri Alban Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) The Green Parties have just achieved great success in Switzerland. Let's see how they do with this new influence. Edited October 21, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 hours ago, hughesie27 said: Reckon the vote will pass today. Momentum and Saturdays figures suggest enough people are willing switch. Not if the vote isn't allowed. Speaker has to decide first and may say you can't just bring the same vote back again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Not if the vote isn't allowed. Speaker has to decide first and may say you can't just bring the same vote back again. Indeed, however wasn't May's deal brought back exactly the same twice, but the third time the wording was changed a bit, sure I heard someone going on about that a precedence had already been set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Indeed, however wasn't May's deal brought back exactly the same twice, but the third time the wording was changed a bit, sure I heard someone going on about that a precedence had already been set. The Boris Johnson Government is focusing on a General Election and setting down the us v them narrative. While, almost amazingly Boris could pass his Deal he is in trouble when it comes to the legislation. It is all uncertain. But it's likely the legislation can be amended for all or some of a Referendum, changing it to include the Labour position of a full Customs Union and close single market relationship and other changes they don't want. At that point the Government can withdraw the legislation and its onto a General Election. (Probably - because there is the option of a new coalition Government which could pass the legislation - with a Referendum and / or Customs Union) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 7 hours ago, Francis Albert said: And of course not only in this instance but ever since the leave vote the losers have been turning to (or running to) the judiciary. "Hey, wait a minute, I think what they're doing is illegal!" "Shame we can't go to court, making sure things are legal is much worse than breaking the law" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted October 21, 2019 Author Share Posted October 21, 2019 BBC radio Scotland morning call: Talking about Brexit and do you want BoJo's deal... Guy comes on, Caller: The SNP Bad.... Kaye: No, we are talking about the Brexit deal. Caller: The SNP Ba- Kaye: No! We are talking about BoJo's deal, do you support it? Caller: eh, it's a bad deal but we should just except it. Kaye: Really? Caller, Yeah, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 hours ago, Francis Albert said: And of course not only in this instance but ever since the leave vote the losers have been turning to (or running to) the judiciary. Man, I thought you were a bad case, but not believing in the rule of law? Have a word with yourself. Societies are built on law - if you start arguing against the foundation of law, perhaps you should ask yourself if you're still on the right side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, jumpship said: BBC radio Scotland morning call: Talking about Brexit and do you want BoJo's deal... Guy comes on, Caller: The SNP Bad.... Kaye: No, we are talking about the Brexit deal. Caller: The SNP Ba- Kaye: No! We are talking about BoJo's deal, do you support it? Caller: eh, it's a bad deal but we should just except it. Kaye: Really? Caller, Yeah, Every side has people with entrenched views. I saw someone on twitter highlight how they had made a contribution to the Big Hearts foodback collection and then suggest Sturgeon isn't interested in helping people and more interested in Indie. Absolutely bonkers stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said: The Boris Johnson Government is focusing on a General Election and setting down the us v them narrative. While, almost amazingly Boris could pass his Deal he is in trouble when it comes to the legislation. It is all uncertain. But it's likely the legislation can be amended for all or some of a Referendum, changing it to include the Labour position of a full Customs Union and close single market relationship and other changes they don't want. At that point the Government can withdraw the legislation and its onto a General Election. (Probably - because there is the option of a new coalition Government which could pass the legislation - with a Referendum and / or Customs Union) A GE is how I see things panning out, sooner rather than later. There just doesn't seem to be the numbers in parliament to support a second referendum, therefore once the MP's who are calling for a second referendum realise & accept this, they'll realise that the only way it will be put back to the people is via a GE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, jumpship said: BBC radio Scotland morning call: Talking about Brexit and do you want BoJo's deal... Guy comes on, Caller: The SNP Bad.... Kaye: No, we are talking about the Brexit deal. Caller: The SNP Ba- Kaye: No! We are talking about BoJo's deal, do you support it? Caller: eh, it's a bad deal but we should just except it. Kaye: Really? Caller, Yeah, It was Frank, he's tad touchy this morning. Fell out with his wife or something (seeing as he's a married man). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 55 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: It was Frank, he's tad touchy this morning. Fell out with his wife or something (seeing as he's a married man). You are having an absolute mare - again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 hours ago, Lord BJ said: That’s a pretty accurate statement. As humans we massively over estimate our own abilities in comparison to our actual ability. Loads of studies to back that up, We all like to pretend we’re smarter we are, truth is a bit harder to face.🤷🏻♂️ It’s just faux arrogance on our part to believe people who don’t agree with us is because they aren’t as smart as us, or are evil or some other detrimental quality. Yes I fully accept I’m one of the worst culprits. On topic not sure it will go anywhere but suspect Bojo will have been found to have broken the spirit of Law. I'll have you know there's nothing faux about my arrogance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 I see the flat-earthers are not happy. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50115449 The DUP want NI to be treated exactly the same as the rest of the UK when it comes to Brexit, yet don't want to have the same laws as the rest of the UK, laws which would drag NI into the 21st Century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: I see the flat-earthers are not happy. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-50115449 The DUP want NI to be treated exactly the same as the rest of the UK when it comes to Brexit, yet don't want to have the same laws as the rest of the UK, laws which would drag NI into the 21st Century. Full UK wide Customs Union it is then. If they can join Labour and find some sort of majority for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: A GE is how I see things panning out, sooner rather than later. There just doesn't seem to be the numbers in parliament to support a second referendum, therefore once the MP's who are calling for a second referendum realise & accept this, they'll realise that the only way it will be put back to the people is via a GE. Remainers will hang on to this zombie parliament for dear life. With their anti-brexit majority and their leader Bercow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Re a referendum as opposed to a GE. Brexit as to be decided by a referendum as a stand alone issue. You can’t lump it in with all the other issues that need to be considered in a GE like taxation, re nationalisation of utilities, health and so on. Add in MPs for same parties can’t even agree on their Brexit stance. This needs to be taken back to the people via a referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 hours ago, redjambo said: Man, I thought you were a bad case, but not believing in the rule of law? Have a word with yourself. Societies are built on law - if you start arguing against the foundation of law, perhaps you should ask yourself if you're still on the right side. Believing in the rule of law is one thing. Politically motivated use of the judiciary is another and until now fairly rare. That cat being well and truly out of the bag independence and Corbyn's expropriation plans will be fought through the courts as well as parliament. If it comes to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said: Re a referendum as opposed to a GE. Brexit as to be decided by a referendum as a stand alone issue. You can’t lump it in with all the other issues that need to be considered in a GE like taxation, re nationalisation of utilities, health and so on. Add in MPs for same parties can’t even agree on their Brexit stance. This needs to be taken back to the people via a referendum. Would agreement on the question be any easier than agreememt on anything else Brexit related? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Would agreement on the question be any easier than agreememt on anything else Brexit related? it needs to a simple question. Leave with the deal on offer or Remain. We need to end this farce now once and for all. To many factions (from all sides and there are many) using every trick in the book to win their point. It has to be the people who decide as quite clearly Parliament can’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: Believing in the rule of law is one thing. Politically motivated use of the judiciary is another and until now fairly rare. That cat being well and truly out of the bag independence and Corbyn's expropriation plans will be fought through the courts as well as parliament. If it comes to that. Good. If there is a sound legal basis against any political decision then it *should* go through the courts. The cat is very welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Let’s not ask in a referendum, do you want to leave with this deal or remain as no one can agree or is happy with contents of the deal. Let’s ask this question. Do you want to continue to leave the EU or Do you want to remain on the EU. If the answer is continue to leave then we carry on trying thrash a deal out however long that takes and remain until its agreed (which may be never) or we revoke A50 and get on with our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 17 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: A Tory MP is lobbying the polish parliament to veto the extension request. Irony alert....again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: A Tory MP is lobbying the polish parliament to veto the extension request. Allegedly Macron has been doing the same with some of the smaller countries, urging them to join together and refuse an extension, so according to Adam Parsons from Sky News whom had been told this by an unnamed French journalist, whom had been told this from their contact within the French government. How true it is, is open to question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dobmisterdobster Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: A Tory MP is lobbying the polish parliament to veto the extension request. I assume you are talking about Daniel Kawczynski who is of Polish heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said: Let’s not ask in a referendum, do you want to leave with this deal or remain as no one can agree or is happy with contents of the deal. Let’s ask this question. Do you want to continue to leave the EU or Do you want to remain on the EU. If the answer is continue to leave then we carry on trying thrash a deal out however long that takes and remain until its agreed (which may be never) or we revoke A50 and get on with our lives. Your earlier suggestion "This deal or remain" might offend some leavers who think leave vs remain has already been done and some leavers because they seethe deal asnot really leaving but would offer some hope indeed strong chance of of resolving things whichever way the vote goes. My guess is leave with this deal would win as the least bad outcome in the circumstances. The above suggestion of "continue to leave" resolves mothing for those who want to leave but the other option resolves everything for those who want to remain. Hardly a balanced choice. A third option would be this deal or leave with no deal. That would provide a very strong majority which the other options probably wouldn't It would even respect the people's vote! Edited October 21, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said: Let’s not ask in a referendum, do you want to leave with this deal or remain as no one can agree or is happy with contents of the deal. Let’s ask this question. Do you want to continue to leave the EU or Do you want to remain on the EU. If the answer is continue to leave then we carry on trying thrash a deal out however long that takes and remain until its agreed (which may be never) or we revoke A50 and get on with our lives. I can see one problem straight away with that question, it doesn't say what kind of brexit people want, can guarnatee that will get banded about, it does already. And why thrash out a deal, there is one on the table already. My problem with a second referendum is this. If leave won again and going by all the opinion polls it would be a very close result, but anyway say leave did win again, the very same instruction from the electorate would go back to a remain dominated parliament who have for the past 3 years tried it's damndest not to impliment the first referendum result, I for one would have no confidence that this parliament would impliment the second referendum result either, therefore you need to change the parliament. I would not be against having a GE with all parties legally agreeing to a confirmatory referendum to be held afterwards or at the same time as the GE, that way the country can have it's say on both a parliament which currently couldn't agree on the colour of ................... and then the country also get's it's say on brexit, and both votes can be held at the same time, and no matter what the result is with regards to the brexit question all parties are legally obliged to enact the result, no ifs buts or maybes, it gets implimented. Edited October 21, 2019 by Jambo-Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: balanced choice 18 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: what kind of brexit people want, There’s the problem we have. So many options, so many objections and to many answers. Hence my last suggestion of do you still want to leave. If the answer is yes then we will forever be stuck on this merry go round or not so no so merry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Gaun yersel Bercow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Government meaningful vote request rejected. In other words piss off and stop wasting our time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 **** off arseholes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Lord BJ said: Bercow is some boy. love him or loath him he’s shit hot and his command of language is second to none and his knowledge of Parliament and its history is phenomenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
132goals1958 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Lord BJ said: Bercow is some boy. Good impersonation there of Tony Benn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Dannie Boy said: love him or loath him he’s shit hot and his command of language is second to none and his knowledge of Parliament and its history is phenomenal. Got to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, 132goals1958 said: Good impersonation there of Tony Benn Whereas Boris is doing his best impression of Tony Robinson’s Baldrick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Arsehole suggesting bias from the chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Lord BJ said: In fairness this decision isn’t particularly surprising or controversial. The government Knew it was very likely. Correct. Window dressing. Parliament and speaker are stealing your Brexit, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
132goals1958 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said: Got to agree. He will be able to name his price on the after dinner speaking circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, graygo said: Arsehole suggesting bias from the chair. The chair now handing said arsehole his arsehole on a plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 He's very good at explaining himself, procedure and giving each MP a fair hearing in the chamber. He's been a very good speaker of the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mysterion said: He's very good at explaining himself, procedure and giving each MP a fair hearing in the chamber. He's been a very good speaker of the house. Hopefully one day I'll get to buy him a beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, 132goals1958 said: He will be able to name his price on the after dinner speaking circuit. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 The bias accusing arsehole Bernard Jenkin still insists he warned Cameron not to hold a simple in-out referendum. He insists this to show his endless wisdom. He's the kind of arse who covers every position.. or says he has. Needs to be right or claim to have been right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) Anyone remember “The Good Old Days” not only does Bercow have a similar style as the host Leonard Sachs of that great old program but his use of words is on a par with the host. He could also be one of the acts as a impersonator! Edited October 21, 2019 by Dannie Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) So when do we determine whether or not the un-named No.10 source is a strategic genius? Edited October 21, 2019 by DETTY29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: So when do determine whether or not the un-named No.10 source is a strategic genius? When he gets in from school? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, gjcc said: When he gets in from school? What did you do today? I was really grown up mum, I told Boris not to put full stops at the end of his lines so the teachers didn't really punish him after all. Edited October 21, 2019 by DETTY29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, Barack said: Will just go to rowdy dinner parties with drunk high-society types, that when he stands to speak, just says: "OOOOOHHHHHHDERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" they all shut up at the tables, then give him a big round of applause and hand over a cheque for 10k and he leaves. 10k he'll get more than that, especially stateside, they love him over there seemingly, gonna make a fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 37 minutes ago, Barack said: Will just go to rowdy dinner parties with drunk high-society types, that when he stands to speak, just says: "OOOOOHHHHHHDERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" they all shut up at the tables, then give him a big round of applause and hand over a cheque for 10k and he leaves. That’ll make up for not getting on the honours list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
132goals1958 Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 59 minutes ago, Barack said: Will just go to rowdy dinner parties with drunk high-society types, that when he stands to speak, just says: "OOOOOHHHHHHDERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR" they all shut up at the tables, then give him a big round of applause and hand over a cheque for 10k and he leaves. Reminds me of someone who was asked to give a lecture on sex." He stood up and said It gives me great pleasure* an then sat down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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