Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[ri Alban]

Border down the Irish sea.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

something had to give. If Bonking Boris has moved it will be interesting to see how and if it’s approved by Parliament here. Otherwise he’s on a slippery pole once more😎

 

As long as the DUP are onside then the rest of the tories will support it, that was the rumour yesterday, and the DUP support whatever the UK/EU have just fudged.

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Border down the Irish sea.

 

All Ireland Customs Union. 

 

Though like Teresa May's deal they might not call it that to allow DUP to vote for it. 

[jake]

15 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

No. It was the EU. We have been round this lap before. I remember our old Dublin correspondent congratulating the EU on coming up with  the "solution" to the border issue.

 

🙂 

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[RobboM]

2 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

Michael Barnier given the green light to go into Tunnel negotiations with the UK over a deal by the EU!

I wonder what’s changed? 

 

Maybe it's the tunnel Princess Di drove down .....

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, jake said:

🙂

 

TM said the UK would leave the SM and CU, but she said there would be no hard border. She then proposed the UK would stay in for a transitional period, so creating the backstop, (Last resort). The EU/UK fine tuned it with negotiations.

 

 

[jake]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

TM said the UK would leave the SM and CU, but she said there would be no hard border. She then proposed the UK would stay in for a transitional period, so creating the backstop, (Last resort). The EU/UK fine tuned it with negotiations.

 

 

My smile was for something else bud.

[ri Alban]

Just now, jake said:

My smile was for something else bud.

👍 FA should change his name to bloody Mary.

[jake]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

👍 FA should change his name to bloody Mary.

Eh?

[Justin Z]

Brexit party MEPs vote against plans to tackle Russian propaganda

 

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, jake said:

Eh?

He likes to torture everyone.

 

Mary Mary, quite contrary.

[ri Alban]

5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Brexit party MEPs vote against plans to tackle Russian propaganda

 

How did Hungary vote.(Oil and Gas from the Russians). I'd chuck them out, if I was the President of the EU. 

[jake]

3 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

He likes to torture everyone.

 

Mary Mary, quite contrary.

FA posts are decent imo

[jake]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

Brexit party MEPs vote against plans to tackle Russian propaganda

 

Brexit and Trump both voted in after Russian propaganda and facebook trolls defeated a MSM machine that is naive and honest.

 

Uh huh

[Justin Z]

5 minutes ago, jake said:

Brexit and Trump both voted in after Russian propaganda and facebook trolls defeated a MSM machine that is naive and honest.

 

Uh huh

 

 

(and a generous presumption of "worse things" to boot)

 

[dobmisterdobster]

16 minutes ago, jake said:

Brexit and Trump both voted in after Russian propaganda and facebook trolls defeated a MSM machine that is naive and honest.

 

Uh huh

The only reason that "Fake News" is an issue now is because the irrelevant legacy news organisations are no longer gatekeepers of information.

[Pans Jambo]

4 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

Michael Barnier given the green light to go into Tunnel negotiations with the UK over a deal by the EU!

I wonder what’s changed? 

 

Changed? Maybe its this:

 

 

[Brighton Jambo]

9 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Changed? Maybe its this:

 

 

And yet if we don’t get a deal and leave with no deal, what’s the first thing created, a hard border on the island of Ireland.  A wee flaw in the EU position there 

[ri Alban]

44 minutes ago, jake said:

FA posts are decent imo

Only because you're are bad as him. But I do enjoy the fun. 👍

[Mikey1874]

Still planning for No Deal. Nice we have so much spare cash. Government looking after people.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mikey1874

[jake]

46 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

(and a generous presumption of "worse things" to boot)

 

Did the pesky ruskies bombard us with fake news and take us to war.

Did they spend half a billion to make fake al Qaeda videos?

 

The pesky ruskies are somewhat amateurish compared to our fake news outlets .

 

No?

 

[Notts1874]

7 minutes ago, jake said:

Did the pesky ruskies bombard us with fake news and take us to war.

Did they spend half a billion to make fake al Qaeda videos?

 

The pesky ruskies are somewhat amateurish compared to our fake news outlets .

 

No?

 

What fake news media outlets do we have?

[Pans Jambo]

32 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

And yet if we don’t get a deal and leave with no deal, what’s the first thing created, a hard border on the island of Ireland.  A wee flaw in the EU position there 

Dont remember the EU voting for Brexit. Do you?

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Dont remember the EU voting for Brexit. Do you?

What’s that got to do with anything, they don’t want a hard border then do a deal and avoid one or don’t and get one.  

 

How can stubbornly holding a position that guarantees the one thing you don’t want to happen will happen be sensible.  

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

What’s that got to do with anything, they don’t want a hard border then do a deal and avoid one or don’t and get one.  

 

How can stubbornly holding a position that guarantees the one thing you don’t want to happen will happen be sensible.  

 

EU is stubborn? 

 

You got any understanding of the single market? 

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

What’s that got to do with anything, they don’t want a hard border then do a deal and avoid one or don’t and get one.  

 

How can stubbornly holding a position that guarantees the one thing you don’t want to happen will happen be sensible.  

Oh, so it’s give the UK the deal they want or its a no deal, hard border and its all the EU’s fault?

 

Thats how Boris and his apologists will spin it if that comes to pass. 

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Oh, so it’s give the UK the deal they want or its a no deal, hard border and its all the EU’s fault?

 

Thats how Boris and his apologists will spin it if that comes to pass. 

That’s not what I said.  I can’t be bothered debating with someone who just puts words in my mouth for me.  

[Brighton Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

EU is stubborn? 

 

You got any understanding of the single market? 

Yeah though thanks for patronising me.  I do think the EU are stubborn, I don’t blame them for being so but for a deal both sides will need to move in their positions 

[RobboM]

13 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

What’s that got to do with anything, they don’t want a hard border then do a deal and avoid one or don’t and get one.  

 

How can stubbornly holding a position that guarantees the one thing you don’t want to happen will happen be sensible.  

BJ, I think that "the one thing you don't want to happen" for the EU is compromising the integity of the Customs Union and Single Market. A No Deal Brexit is clearly unsustainable for the UK over any extended period and I'm sure the EU would have assessed the pain for them in the short term would be far less than a long term solution that threatens their Single Market.

[Cade]

Theory time:

Boris knew damn fine that the UK's red lines were contradictory and that the Good Friday Agreement makes a true hard Brexit impossible.

Boris sacks 21 of his own MPs, rendering the DUP irrelevant: With or without their votes he's still a minority. DUP have no power any more.

Boris agrees to have the border down the Irish Sea and to keep NI in the Customs Union.

Brexit can then go ahead.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

25 minutes ago, weehammy said:

Whatever our political differences, let’s hope there’s light at the end of that tunnel.

 

Yeah. 

 

We just get on with things. 

 

It is more a massive soap opera no one could have scripted. 

[Gorgiewave]

5 minutes ago, Cade said:

Theory time:

Boris knew damn fine that the UK's red lines were contradictory and that the Good Friday Agreement makes a true hard Brexit impossible.

Boris sacks 21 of his own MPs, rendering the DUP irrelevant: With or without their votes he's still a minority. DUP have no power any more.

Boris agrees to have the border down the Irish Sea and to keep NI in the Customs Union.

Brexit can then go ahead.

 

 

 

The Belfast Agreement barely mentions the border and it doesn't prohibit a customs union, border posts or anything else.

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

The Belfast Agreement barely mentions the border and it doesn't prohibit a customs union, border posts or anything else.

If a border goes up between The RoI and NI, the Irish of NI will be outraged. If the border goes up in the Irish Sea the Unionists will be outraged. The BA says this cannot happen.

Edited October 11, 2019 by ri Alban

[Gorgiewave]

21 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

If a border goes up between The RoI and NI, the Irish of NI will be outraged. If the border goes up in the Irish Sea the Unionists will be outraged. The BA says this cannot happen.

 

Please point to the article in the text.

 

There is no general provision against outraging anyone. The IRA don't have a veto on anything and quite right not.

 

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, weehammy said:

Maybe the SNP should concentrate on governing Scotland at Holyrood instead of singing Scots Wha Hae in London.

 - screwing up the Fat Eck case and costing taxpayers hundreds of thousands in restitution;

- incompetent management of the NHS with delays to new Edinburgh Sick Kids and St John’s kid’s ward;

- decline in educational standards as measured by exam passes and international comparative studies ( the latter solved by withdrawing from these).

Don’t bother replying as I won’t be reading. My mistake for venturing over here as a rest from slaughtering Levein in the Terrace. At least we have Hearts in common. Whatever our political differences, let’s hope there’s light at the end of that tunnel.

Toys oot the pram type post. 
in EVERY measurable way the Scotgov’ running of their affairs (the ones they get to anyway) are far better than anything else on these islands but you knew that. 
 

Anyway, back on topic. The shitfest looks like it may get sorted somehow:

England and Wales voted to leave, looks like they may get what they want. 
Norther Ireland voted to remain, looks like they may get what they want. 
Scotland voted to...ah shut TFU!!! Get back in yer cage! Youre getting what Westminster tell you yer getting!

 

[ri Alban]

12 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Please point to the article in the text.

 

There is no general provision against outraging anyone. The IRA don't have a veto on anything and quite right not.

 

Article? IRA? Maybe if you read the GFA, you'll see that it says, that no one will be stopped from identifying themselves as Irish or British. If a border goes up between The two Irelands or between NI and GB this will go against the GFA.   But hey, you know better!

[Gorgiewave]

2 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Article? IRA? Maybe if you read the GFA, you'll see that it says, that no one will be stopped from identifying themselves as Irish or British. If a border goes up between The two Irelands or between NI and GB this will go against the GFA.   But hey, you know better!

 

People identify as Irish or British all over the world. It's not a question of open borders.

[ri Alban]

Just now, Gorgiewave said:

 

People identify as Irish or British all over the world. It's not a question of open borders.

👍 Ok, Einstein!

[Cade]

Not this pish again.

 

Some random keyboard warrior on JKB declares that the Irish border isn't a problem, when the rest of the world agrees that it is, actually, a huge problem.

 

 

The GFA states that citizens of Ireland and Northern Ireland may chose to be British or Irish or both, and to carry a passport of either nation, or both.

It also states that they can live anywhere on the island of Ireland as they chose and work anywhere on the island of Ireland they can chose, with no impediment.

Whether British or Irish and living in either NI or The Republic of Ireland, they have the same rights.

When NI was in the EU, this wasn't a problem as the border ceased to exist. 

By definition, a hard border forces people to assign a single identity. 

Any kind of hard border is an impediment and means people living on different sides of it have different rights.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Cade

[Gorgiewave]

43 minutes ago, Cade said:

Not this pish again.

 

Some random keyboard warrior on JKB declares that the Irish border isn't a problem, when the rest of the world agrees that it is, actually, a huge problem.

 

 

The GFA states that citizens of Ireland and Northern Ireland may chose to be British or Irish or both, and to carry a passport of either nation, or both.

It also states that they can live anywhere on the island of Ireland as they chose and work anywhere on the island of Ireland they can chose, with no impediment.

Whether British or Irish and living in either NI or The Republic of Ireland, they have the same rights.

When NI was in the EU, this wasn't a problem as the border ceased to exist. 

By definition, a hard border forces people to assign a single identity. 

Any kind of hard border is an impediment and means people living on different sides of it have different rights.

 

 

 

No, it doesn't. It might mean they have to have any goods they want to export or import checked. It doesn't mean they can't be British or Irish.

 

There are customs checks between the USA and the EU. Is Justin-Z therefore not American?

 

They already have different rights: they're different countries. The Belfast Agreement says so.

 

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Gorgiewave

[jake]

3 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

What fake news media outlets do we have?

They've all been caught lying.

Can you name one that hasn't?

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Not this pish again.

 

Some random keyboard warrior on JKB declares that the Irish border isn't a problem, when the rest of the world agrees that it is, actually, a huge problem.

 

 

The GFA states that citizens of Ireland and Northern Ireland may chose to be British or Irish or both, and to carry a passport of either nation, or both.

It also states that they can live anywhere on the island of Ireland as they chose and work anywhere on the island of Ireland they can chose, with no impediment.

Whether British or Irish and living in either NI or The Republic of Ireland, they have the same rights.

When NI was in the EU, this wasn't a problem as the border ceased to exist. 

By definition, a hard border forces people to assign a single identity. 

Any kind of hard border is an impediment and means people living on different sides of it have different rights.

 

 

 

No it doesn't re the "single identity"

 

Ireland and Britain relationship continues unchanged. People can still choose to be Irish and /or British. Nothing to do with EU. 

 

The rest is a problem. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Francis Albert]

7 hours ago, ri Alban said:

He likes to torture everyone.

 

Mary Mary, quite contrary.

Not everyone ri Alban

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

The Belfast Agreement barely mentions the border and it doesn't prohibit a customs union, border posts or anything else.

Correct. No-one has yet corrected my repeated assertion that this is a fact by pointing to any term of the Belfast Agreement that contradicts it. Yes of course a hard or even slightly visible border would be a bad idea for all sorts of reasons but it would not breach the terms of the Belfast Agreement. And in fact the Irish PM is careful not to say it would.

[The Mighty Thor]

Interesting article in the Sunday Times,  another leak of a govt report that paints a less than rosy picture. 

[Cade]

So voting for Brexit because "EU immigrants are taking oor jobs" is only going to result in your entire factory moving to Europe.

And you'll not be able to get a visa to move with it coz no more free movement.

And then some EU citizen will actually get your old job.

 

[Cade]

Boris wins his first ever Commons vote

Opposition benches give ironic cheers and shouts of "congratulations" are heard.

 

Back on Brexit, it seems that Boris has surrendered and is putting the border down the middle of the Irish sea.

Whether or not he can get this plan through Parliament is another matter.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris wins his first ever Commons vote

Opposition benches give ironic cheers and shouts of "congratulations" are heard.

 

Back on Brexit, it seems that Boris has surrendered and is putting the border down the middle of the Irish sea.

Whether or not he can get this plan through Parliament is another matter.

So he's unified Ireland. The DUP will be thrilled.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

21 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

So he's unified Ireland. The DUP will be thrilled.

 

The DUP are irrelevant now, even with their votes Boris doesn't have a majority, not since he sacked the 21 Tory rebels, but that was the whole point of sacking the 21, so there would never be a majority.

 

If he brings back a deal, even if the 21 Tory rebels supported it, the DUP won't, Government defeated, job done.