Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Perfectly valid points there and it would take time and effort to decide on the nature and timing of any possible further referendum.    There would be a lot to sort out first.     Perhaps the first thing would be for the government to accept that a significant extention to the deadline is needed to enable a wholesale rethink by parliament.

 

I agree with an extension if no deal is on the cards. I’m sure the EU don’t want a no deal so they may just agree to kick it down the road a bit.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I agree with an extension if no deal is on the cards. I’m sure the EU don’t want a no deal so they may just agree to kick it down the road a bit.

 

Absurdly,    May has ruled out any chance of an extension.     It's almost as if her current strategy is part of a pre-determined roadmap / timescale for the purpose of some unknown end result.

 

Why rule out an extension so emphatically?    Why reduce the options so recklessly?     

[Don Dan]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Absurdly,    May has ruled out any chance of an extension.     It's almost as if her current strategy is part of a pre-determined roadmap / timescale for the purpose of some unknown end result.

 

Why rule out an extension so emphatically?    Why reduce the options so recklessly?     

 

It could be a last minute option that will be brought out at 1 minute to midnight. 

[Des Lynam]

12 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

Seems simple to me

 

May will take her plan to the commons (beating off any leadership challenge before hand). The plabn will be voted down. She will say she has done everything she can, offer her resignation.

 

If the Tories can agree a leader they will continue  However it's unlikely to be a brexiteer as they haven't got the parliamentary numbers. So they may decide to go to the country, with Labour's agreement with the critical issue being what goes in their manifestos.

 

There’s simply no time for that scenario. If they get the 48 she’ll be gone by the time Hearts next play at home. 

[scott herbertson]

1 minute ago, Des Lynam said:

 

There’s simply no time for that scenario. If they get the 48 she’ll be gone by the time Hearts next play at home. 

 

Why - my view is she would win a leadership election

[Des Lynam]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Absurdly,    May has ruled out any chance of an extension.     It's almost as if her current strategy is part of a pre-determined roadmap / timescale for the purpose of some unknown end result.

 

Why rule out an extension so emphatically?    Why reduce the options so recklessly?     

 

Fully agree. She’s become so entrenched in her views that it’s almost like she wants this shitshow. 

 

Can the tories give in to a second referendum after their stance on Indyref 2? 

[Des Lynam]

Just now, scott herbertson said:

 

Why - my view is she would win a leadership election

 

Ffs Scott I must learn to take in what I read. Apologies! 

[scott herbertson]

Just now, Des Lynam said:

 

Ffs Scott I must learn to take in what I read. Apologies! 

 

No problem mate - as I wrote it I started to get confused myself. I was going to go on to say what I thought the Conservatives would go for but I basically self-destructed with my thinking at that point!

[Mark M]

Who would have thought it would be Tories not Labour who would go into cannibal mode if you remember the arrival of May and dazed Corbyn after the referendum. Gotta hand it to him. As much as I loathe near all he stands for, back benching has taught him patience.

 

Also, apparently JRM was making a nod to Brutus in Julius Caesar when he referred to Maybot as honorable at the start of the speech today. Another one who has been biding his time.

[Victorian]

The current chat is of the real possibility of May winning a confidence vote.   Then it's time barred for 12 months tk have another.     It seems highly unlikely that the ERG would have a better time than right now so their bolt may be well and truly shot soon.     

[Des Lynam]

1 minute ago, scott herbertson said:

 

No problem mate - as I wrote it I started to get confused myself. I was going to go on to say what I thought the Conservatives would go for but I basically self-destructed with my thinking at that point!

 

I genuinely admire her tenacity to see this through. Do you think she’d win a leadership challenge? 

 

This could tear the Conservatives apart. 

 

 

 

 

[scott herbertson]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

I genuinely admire her tenacity to see this through. Do you think she’d win a leadership challenge? 

 

This could tear the Conservatives apart. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No certainty but the hard line Brexiteers certainly don't represent the majority - hence they have not yet achieved their 48. If there was a strong alternative candidate - a Cameron type for example , then i think she would be in trouble. But aside from the hard line Brexiteers who would want to lead the party when they have no chance of getting  a 'deal' through the Commons. So I think they will stick by her at least until the 'deal' is voted down - I think then she might resign as what else can she do?

[Des Lynam]

5 minutes ago, Mark M said:

Who would have thought it would be Tories not Labour who would go into cannibal mode if you remember the arrival of May and dazed Corbyn after the referendum. Gotta hand it to him. As much as I loathe near all he stands for, back benching has taught him patience.

 

Also, apparently JRM was making a nod to Brutus in Julius Caesar when he referred to Maybot as honorable at the start of the speech today. Another one who has been biding his time.

 

Ah for the good of Rome. 

 

Do you think JRM wants the top job? 

[Des Lynam]

3 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

No certainty but the hard line Brexiteers certainly don't represent the majority - hence they have not yet achieved their 48. If there was a strong alternative candidate - a Cameron type for example , then i think she would be in trouble. But aside from the hard line Brexiteers who would want to lead the party when they have no chance of getting  a 'deal' through the Commons. So I think they will stick by her at least until the 'deal' is voted down - I think then she might resign as what else can she do?

 

I’m surprised they don’t have the 48 to trigger a leadership challenge. 

 

You also wonder how many of those in the House of Commons today actually read the 500 page agreement. 

[AlimOzturk]

[Marvin]

50 minutes ago, scott herbertson said:

 

 

Panel's pretty rubbish though

 

Claire Perry MP, Stephen Kinnock MP, Liz Saville Roberts MP, Mark Serwotka and Tim Stanley.

 

He's my Union boss. I might just watch it.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

[Victorian]

It's a one chance only to remove her by a confidence vote.     You can only have it once a year.     She could easily win it anyway.

 

Above that,   the letters require a confirmation phone call by Graham Brady.     They probably don't trust each other to follow through on the letters submitted.       

[jake]

20 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Who cares? The premise is bullshit. 

Great answer.

?

[jake]

16 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It's Maths. 

No I'm right .

 

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, jake said:

No I'm right .

 

 

[Dawnrazor]

When we do leave the EU do you think we could call a Snickers a Marathon again? 

[jake]

14 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

? 

That's a first on a brexit thread buddy

[Justin Z]

2 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

When we do leave the EU do you think we could call a Snickers a Marathon again? 

 

[FWJ]

Well guess what?

They really are just making it up ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06rvqg8

[FWJ]

Just now, Justin Z said:

 

You see, you’re lucky JZ.  If this utter shambles of an administration just becomes too embarrassing you can always go back to ....  Oh, hold on....

?

[Justin Z]

Just now, FWJ said:

You see, you’re lucky JZ.  If this utter shambles of an administration just becomes too embarrassing you can always go back to ....  Oh, hold on....

?

 

DON'T REMIND ME ?

[Dunks]

26 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Well guess what?

They really are just making it up ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06rvqg8

 

[Notts1874]

She is seemingly doing a phone in tomorrow at 8am on LBC......why not get her on at 10am with James O'Brien?

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

DON'T REMIND ME ?

 

[Shanks said no]

Are there not constitutional issues with JRM becoming PM?

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

3 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Are there not constitutional issues with JRM becoming PM?

If JRM becomes Pm I'm off to Mainland Europe. Aw naw too late for that?

[Francis Albert]

I thought the respective Mail and Guardian reactions to the May deal were interesting. The Mail has probably been the strongest mainstream media voice for Brexit but today (admittedly under a recently appointed new editor) argued that while the deal left much to be desired by Brexit supporters it delivered some of what they sought and was better than remain as before or leave without a deal. The hard line Brexit views of Mogg, Johnson and the rest were dismissed, even ridiculed. The Mail even saw the May compromise as a possible route to achieving some common ground between Leavers and Remainers. The Guardian however maintained its hard line Remain position by urging MPs to vote against the May deal and for a Remain solution in the interests of the country - basically ignoring and over-riding the referendum vote. Who are the extremists now?

 

In the pro-Remain Independent/i Hamish McCrae meanwhile argued that in relation to global economic trends (growth of services vs goods, growth of China, India, Brazil etc, demographic trends and so on ) the EU was a bit of a sideshow and the future economic well being of the UK (and indeed Europe generally) depended more on its relations with the rest of the world than the little internal market of the EU, with its rapidly shrinking share of world trade and rapidly aging population. 

 

But lets focus like the BBC and much of the media on how long May can survive and which third rate junior Ministers have resigned!

Edited November 15, 2018 by Francis Albert

[Geoff the Mince]

1 hour ago, Notts1874 said:

She is seemingly doing a phone in tomorrow at 8am on LBC......why not get her on at 10am with James O'Brien?

None of them can handle JoB as he deals in facts . . Hes been very informative about Brexit since the off. 

[Notts1874]

Just now, Geoff the Mince said:

None of them can handle JoB as he deals in facts . . Hes been very informative about Brexit since the off. 

He certainly has. He hasn't changed his stance for two years and has been proven to be correct.

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

None of them can handle JoB as he deals in facts . . Hes been very informative about Brexit since the off. 

His show today was excellent IMO. Even had a Leave voter crying live on air asking “what have I done?”. I think his new book would be a decent read. 

Edit: Another leaver stated live on air that with the correct training you could jump out of an aeroplane without a paracute & be able to fly ?

Edited November 15, 2018 by Pans Jambo

[Toxteth O'Grady]

2 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

None of them can handle JoB as he deals in facts . . Hes been very informative about Brexit since the off. 

Whats the point in phoning her? I don't think I've ever heard her answer a question.

 

She just dishes out a load of statements

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Another leaver stated live on air that with the correct training you could jump out of an aeroplane without a paracute & be able to fly ?

 

 

Wheeeeeeee!  I'm flying, and look how fast I'm gaining speeeeeeeeeeed!

[AlimOzturk]

https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/15/may-quits-with-immediate-effect-after-poor-performance-8143408/

[Pans Jambo]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Wheeeeeeee!  I'm flying, and look how fast I'm gaining speeeeeeeeeeed!

Yeh, & whats that thing coming towards me really fast???

That’ll be reality!

[Dawnrazor]

11 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Another leaver stated live on air that with the correct training you could jump out of an aeroplane without a paracute & be able to fly 

He's correct although "glide' might be a better description, it's the landing that's the tricky bit?

[CJGJ]

14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I thought the respective Mail and Guardian reactions to the May deal were interesting. The Mail has probably been the strongest mainstream media voice for Brexit but today (admittedly under a recently appointed new editor) argued that while the deal left much to be desired by Brexit supporters it delivered some of what they sought and was better than remain as before or leave without a deal. The hard line Brexit views of Mogg, Johnson and the rest were dismissed, even ridiculed. The Mail even saw the May compromise as a possible route to achieving some common ground between Leavers and Remainers. The Guardian however maintained its hard line Remain position by urging MPs to vote against the May deal and for a Remain solution in the interests of the country - basically ignoring and over-riding the referendum vote. Who are the extremists now?

 

In the pro-Remain Independent/i Hamish McCrae meanwhile argued that in relation to global economic trends (growth of services vs goods, growth of China, India, Brazil etc, demographic trends and so on ) the EU was a bit of a sideshow and the future economic well being of the UK (and indeed Europe generally) depended more on its relations with the rest of the world than the little internal market of the EU, with its rapidly shrinking share of world trade and rapidly aging population. 

 

But lets focus like the BBC and much of the media on how long May can survive and which third rate junior Ministers have resigned!

Some of the above beggars belief

 

The implication that one vote at one time ties you forever is just so stupid

 

Governments are voted in and out of power on  a regular basis  …...this country was sold a pup by vested interests, blundering buffoons who think only of themselves and not the country, with many voters of an older generation who had fond memories but little common sense when it came to thinking of the future and that of their children

 

Many will have passed on now and though that is sad we need to fight this terrible legacy they have left behind for others to clear up

 

To those who voted to leave imagine standing beside Boris , Rees-Mogg, the non domiciles, the little Englanders and those who lied to the country..where is that £350 million by the way ?

That's the company you keep and you are hurting this country now and in the future

 

This country voted for a lie and now that lie has been exposed its time for new vote

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Yeh, & whats that thing coming towards me really fast???

That’ll be reality!

 

Never mind, hey, this is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I’m quite dizzy with anticipation …

 

Or is it the wind?  There really is a lot of that now isn’t there?

 

And wow! Hey! What’s this thing suddenly coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like … ow … ound … round … ground! That’s it! That’s a good name – ground!

 

I wonder if it will be friends with me?

 

And the rest, after a sudden wet thud, was silence.

 

-----Douglas Adams

[redjambo]

15 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Never mind, hey, this is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I’m quite dizzy with anticipation …

 

Or is it the wind?  There really is a lot of that now isn’t there?

 

And wow! Hey! What’s this thing suddenly coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like … ow … ound … round … ground! That’s it! That’s a good name – ground!

 

I wonder if it will be friends with me?

 

And the rest, after a sudden wet thud, was silence.

 

-----Douglas Adams

 

Why did the image of a bowl of petunias suddenly enter my mind?

[Francis Albert]

21 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Some of the above beggars belief

 

The implication that one vote at one time ties you forever is just so stupid

 

Governments are voted in and out of power on  a regular basis  …...this country was sold a pup by vested interests, blundering buffoons who think only of themselves and not the country, with many voters of an older generation who had fond memories but little common sense when it came to thinking of the future and that of their children

 

Many will have passed on now and though that is sad we need to fight this terrible legacy they have left behind for others to clear up

 

To those who voted to leave imagine standing beside Boris , Rees-Mogg, the non domiciles, the little Englanders and those who lied to the country..where is that £350 million by the way ?

That's the company you keep and you are hurting this country now and in the future

 

This country voted for a lie and now that lie has been exposed its time for new vote

I specifically in my post distanced even the Mail let alone old Guardian reader me from the Moggs and Johnsons and I supported Remain though with no great enthusiasm. Both sides lied.

Why should a further vote be definitive. 

Indeed why given most Governments are elected by about 40% should any future vote go unchallenged. The hard Remainers are playing a dangerous game however many leavers are dying off.

[Francis Albert]

42 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Some of the above beggars belief

 

The implication that one vote at one time ties you forever is just so stupid

 

Governments are voted in and out of power on  a regular basis  …...this country was sold a pup by vested interests, blundering buffoons who think only of themselves and not the country, with many voters of an older generation who had fond memories but little common sense when it came to thinking of the future and that of their children

 

Many will have passed on now and though that is sad we need to fight this terrible legacy they have left behind for others to clear up

 

To those who voted to leave imagine standing beside Boris , Rees-Mogg, the non domiciles, the little Englanders and those who lied to the country..where is that £350 million by the way ?

That's the company you keep and you are hurting this country now and in the future

 

This country voted for a lie and now that lie has been exposed its time for new vote

Sorry to quote again but what about my post "beggars belief"? Did I misrepresent today's Mail and Guardian positions or the views of Hamish McCrae? If so, how?

Normally a reply to a quoted post refers in some way to the content of the quoted post.

[jake]

We should just ban voting and let those with the most money decide.

Or those with the most influence.

Anyway just ban voting as it's a waste of time.

 

I remember when it was just one nation which wanted to get out another bloc of nations.

 

 

Doesn't the fact that it's almost impossible to leave the EU not worry all the joyous on here?

 

[jake]

And the blatant political bias won't I hope be forgotten.

 

[jake]

Doubt there will be much care as it's only uneducated racist working class who are getting shafted.

 

 

 

[jake]

Meanwhile in wonderful Europe ........