Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Amendment to say No Deal at any time ie in any circumstances WINS 312-308 Edited March 13, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Amendment carries by 4. GIRFUY May. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Victorian said: Amendment carries by 4. GIRFUY May. That could be big AND have any Tory ministers voted for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said: Amendment to say No Deal at any time ie in any circumstances WINS 312-308 No No deal, Shirley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Sausage Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 So what does that mean? I am confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 May has to walk now. Busted flush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Captain Sausage said: So what does that mean? I am confused! Parliament says NO to No Deal in any circumstances. Should force government to prevent UK leaving EU without a deal. Edited March 13, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 The house has expressed it's will but legislation must follow. If the government fails to honour the vote then politics is truly ****ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 This was the expected outcome no? Although perhaps not as close! Means they vote tomorrow on Extending article 50? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Spelman squeaks through by a majority of 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: That could be big AND have any Tory ministers voted for it No. It was whipped. If any have then they wont be ministers tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Victorian said: The house has expressed it's will but legislation must follow. If the government fails to honour the vote then politics is truly ****ed. And we are running out of time even for No Confidence to be enacted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: Parliament says NO to No Deal in any circumstances Except that legally, if the EU reject an extension to Article 50, we'll have to leave on a No Deal anyway. It's more symbolic than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 No to May's deal. No to No Deal. No to everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, hughesie27 said: This was the expected outcome no? Although perhaps not as close! Means they vote tomorrow on Extending article 50? No. It was an amendment. The motion is still to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 People saying that vote is "not binding" whatever that means but can't easily be ignored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: And we are running out of time even for No Confidence to be enacted It's hard to conceive of even May ignoring that vote. If she does then it rips apart the fabric of parliament. Then it has to be voted through. It might be rejected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, redjambo said: Except that legally, if the EU reject an extension to Article 50, we'll have to leave on a No Deal anyway. It's more symbolic than anything. No -- according to Liam Fox, if there's no deal, and the EU reject an extension, Article 50 is revoked and there's no Brexit at the end of March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 constitutional crisis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Ugly American said: No -- according to Liam Fox, if there's no deal, and the EU reject an extension, Article 50 is revoked and there's no Brexit at the end of March. No. Revocation is a change in the law. It would require legislation and a vote. It's not an executive power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Shitehouse amendment result coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Victorian said: No. Revocation is a change in the law. It would require legislation and a vote. It's not an executive power. Sorry -- I'm clearly not up on the details of Westminster division of powers. So this is simply to force it to be the policy of government that they will not seek no deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ugly American said: No -- according to Liam Fox, if there's no deal, and the EU reject an extension, Article 50 is revoked and there's no Brexit at the end of March. Thanks, UA. I didn't know that. Would that revocation be automatic? Surely that would have meant that even if today's vote hadn't been won, Article 50 would have been revoked if no deal could be done in time and we would have stayed in the EU. So what's the panic about No Deal then if it can't happen? Edit: Ah, ok, I've now read the answers above. So did Liam Fox say this or not? Edited March 13, 2019 by redjambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, redjambo said: Thanks, UA. I didn't know that. Would that revocation be automatic? Surely that would have meant that even if today's vote hadn't been won, Article 50 would have been revoked if no deal could be done in time and we would have stayed in the EU. So what's the panic about No Deal then if it can't happen? I'm apparently wrong. See above from Victorian. One of the feeds I'm following is the Guardian. Here's what they say: Quote Why the no-deal amendment does not definitely rule out no deal It is important to stress, of course, that the Spelman amendment passed a few minutes ago does not definitely rule out a no-deal Brexit. There are two reasons for that. First, it is not a binding amendment. It is not legislation, and it is not a motion that gives a formal instruction to the government (like the “humble address” motions). The government could choose to accept it, and treat it as binding, but it has not said yet that it will. And even if it did ... Second, it is not within the government’s power to rule out no deal (in the terms of the motion) because it does not call for article 50 to be revoked (which would probably require separate legislation anyway). Caroline Spelman and Jack Dromey, who tabled it, intended it to signal that ministers should extend article 50 in the event of no deal being agreed. But, as Theresa May says repeatedly, that only postpones the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Ugly American said: Sorry -- I'm clearly not up on the details of Westminster division of powers. So this is simply to force it to be the policy of government that they will not seek no deal? Parliament's will. Legislation of some kind is absolutely necessary or we have no-deal or a deal, which is legislation also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Victorian said: Shitehouse amendment result coming. Defeated 374-164 Sure the Brexiteers will go fully behind No Deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Shitehouse down the shitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 If all of these means the collapse of the Tory party under May, maybe it will have been worth it . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) Vote now on motion as amended Edited March 13, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Ugly American said: If all of these means the collapse of the Tory party under May, maybe it will have been worth it . . . Not for economic and social collapse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Main motion will pass unless a handful of people have gone completely berserk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Now I am lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Jings. A wildcat whip? This could defeat the motion if true but it will be utter, utter bedlam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Malthouse smashed by 210 majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 What are they voting on now? What does Gov motion as amended mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, hughesie27 said: What are they voting on now? What does Gov motion as amended mean? No to No Deal It's just to confirm the previous (first) vote tonight Edited March 13, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Spelman and Shitehouse were amendments to the main motion, which is also to rule out No Deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, hughesie27 said: What are they voting on now? What does Gov motion as amended mean? The first vote was to amend the main motion. It's now that amended main motion being voted on. Edited March 13, 2019 by redjambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, hughesie27 said: What are they voting on now? What does Gov motion as amended mean? Government tabled a motion that was basically, "rule out no deal, unless yanno, a deal is HARD" Conservative backbencher Spelman tabled an amendment saying, "no, really, we mean no deal." Tories whipped so she tried to withdraw it. Bercow wouldn't let her and Yvette Cooper moved the motion. It passed. The revised motion, as amended by Spelman, is now up for vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Still haven't voted FOR anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Govt whipping against a motion it put forward. BONKERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, hughesie27 said: What are they voting on now? What does Gov motion as amended mean? The amendment that has just been passed is now part of the government motion which the government are now whipping their MPs to vote against. Simples ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: No to No Deal But it’s irrelevant anyway unless the Gov introduces legislation and the EU agrees? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Cade said: Govt whipping against a motion it put forward. BONKERS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: But it’s irrelevant anyway unless the Gov introduces legislation and the EU agrees? Or they find a sneaky archaic Parliamentary procedure Edited March 13, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Motions and amendments. Amendments are always voted first. No point trying to amend a motion that has already fallen. Standard conference, union meeting manner of deciding things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Cruyff Turn said: But it’s irrelevant anyway unless the Gov introduces legislation and the EU agrees? Yes to legislation. The EU must approve any extension. But the UK could cancel Article 50 unilaterally. And the EU has basically said they won't grant an extension if it's just tea and cake with Theresa May ad nauseum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 It could really kick off now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Watching live. Enthralling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: Off they find a sneaky archaic Parliamentary procedure But the EU would have to agree surely before the deadline as that will also be their default position? The He only way a No deal can be off is if a deal is agreed and the majority of the house in both camps will continue to vote against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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