Entire high rise alight in London

[RobNox]

The problem here is that it will take a tragedy of this magnitude to force change, when warnings and concerns previously raised appear to have been ignored, or not given sufficient priority.  I suspect the enquiry will eventually find a catalogue of failings combined to create this catastrophe, which should have been completely avoidable.  Hopefully, those who failed in their duties will be held accountable for their actions (or lack of).

 

It smacks of the Hillsborough disaster, another example of a tragedy waiting to happen, with previous warning signs not acted upon properly.  Hopefully, the truth will emerge in this case far quicker than it did for Hillsborough.

[felix]

The problem here is that it will take a tragedy of this magnitude to force change, when warnings and concerns previously raised appear to have been ignored, or not given sufficient priority.  I suspect the enquiry will eventually find a catalogue of failings combined to create this catastrophe, which should have been completely avoidable.  Hopefully, those who failed in their duties will be held accountable for their actions (or lack of).

 

It smacks of the Hillsborough disaster, another example of a tragedy waiting to happen, with previous warning signs not acted upon properly.  Hopefully, the truth will emerge in this case far quicker than it did for Hillsborough.

First read your comparison with Hillsborough and thought bollox - Hillsborough being a major cover-up, taking years to unravel The Grenfell Tower inquiry will flush out the culprits fairly quickly and easily imho.

However, where your comparison's bang on (again imho) is through Hillsborough, stadium design changed. Grenfell Tower will change Fire Regulations and the way old building refurbishments are handled in future.

[Helzibob]

The problem here is that it will take a tragedy of this magnitude to force change, when warnings and concerns previously raised appear to have been ignored, or not given sufficient priority. I suspect the enquiry will eventually find a catalogue of failings combined to create this catastrophe, which should have been completely avoidable. Hopefully, those who failed in their duties will be held accountable for their actions (or lack of).

 

It smacks of the Hillsborough disaster, another example of a tragedy waiting to happen, with previous warning signs not acted upon properly. Hopefully, the truth will emerge in this case far quicker than it did for Hillsborough.

Bang on and hopefully new fire regulations will be put into law quick smart to ensure such a tragedy doesn't happen again.

[hueyview]

Drowning and burning alive are my worst nightmares.

RIP ever lost soul.

likewise...god bless you...

[Irufushi]

I see the resident copy and paste man is in full flow....

[hueyview]

Time another city was given the London treatment. A good government policy to help the economy, would be to pull down every single one of these monstrosities and build new estates, they don't have to be back and fronts, new flats, villas and courts. Just let's get rid of these awful concrete slums. And bring back council tradesmen and apprenticeships. Fecking Thatcher sold it all.

And see if that wee twat ex housing minister, now Chief of staff and, Boris have anything to do with this. They better get the book thrown at them.

Boris is keeping his head down, watching this issue among others finishing May off...so he can dive in ..............the cad...

[hueyview]

So if they have 30 confirmed dead, how do they only have 16 bodies?

 

Genuinely confused.

58 now .....can see this going to 100 plus, 1am in the morning, large number of poor elderly at home, big families........horrible

[Jambo-Jimbo]

So if they have 30 confirmed dead, how do they only have 16 bodies?

 

Genuinely confused.

 

Because they know where there are bodies located but haven't retrieved them yet.

Police confirmed this earlier.

 

58 now .....can see this going to 100 plus, 1am in the morning, large number of poor elderly at home, big families........horrible

 

Possibly not as the Police were saying that after collating all the information that they have from family members who knew that their loved ones were in the building and presumably the 999 calls and other bits of information, that there are as far as they can determine 58 people missing presumed dead, that includes the 30 already confirmed as dead, Police were asked if the 58 figure included the 30 and they said that it did.

They did say that the figure could rise further as they were relying on people being reported as missing but there could be people who were staying in the block which they haven't been made aware of yet.

 

So by the sounds of that, if the figure does go up it might only be by a few if at all.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The problem here is that it will take a tragedy of this magnitude to force change, when warnings and concerns previously raised appear to have been ignored, or not given sufficient priority.  I suspect the enquiry will eventually find a catalogue of failings combined to create this catastrophe, which should have been completely avoidable.  Hopefully, those who failed in their duties will be held accountable for their actions (or lack of).

 

It smacks of the Hillsborough disaster, another example of a tragedy waiting to happen, with previous warning signs not acted upon properly.  Hopefully, the truth will emerge in this case far quicker than it did for Hillsborough.

 

Sadly this is often the case, that it takes a disaster to happen before anyone takes notice and does something about it.

 

You'll find that English law will come into line with Scottish law and all cladding must be fire-proof, why it wasn't already you have to wonder, but it will be now.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

I see the resident copy and paste man is in full flow....

Aye.

 

Using a tragedy to push a politician agenda. Shameless.

[aussieh]

Some arse hole opened a bodybag and took photos and then posted before them on social media. What a fecking utter scumbag lowlife cretin c#%?.

Edited June 17, 2017 by aussieh

[Jambo-Jimbo]

I see the resident copy and paste man is in full flow....

 

 

Aye.

 

Using a tragedy to push a politician agenda. Shameless.

 

Have to agree.

 

What fecking difference does it make whether this happened in a Tory run council area or a Labour run council, or a raving monster loony run council.

 

Dozens of people died and all some folks care about is Tory bashing, pathetic, in fact disgustingly pathetic.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Some arse hole opened a bodybag and took photos and then posted before them on social media. What a fecking utter scumbag lowlife cretin c#%?.

 

Why would someone do that?  Words fail me.

[Irufushi]

Have to agree.

 

What fecking difference does it make whether this happened in a Tory run council area or a Labour run council, or a raving monster loony run council.

 

Dozens of people died and all some folks care about is Tory bashing, pathetic, in fact disgustingly pathetic.

Correct.

[aussieh]

Why would someone do that? Words fail me.

They've jailed him. Good!

[aussieh]

Have to agree.

 

What fecking difference does it make whether this happened in a Tory run council area or a Labour run council, or a raving monster loony run council.

 

Dozens of people died and all some folks care about is Tory bashing, pathetic, in fact disgustingly pathetic.

You think someone pointing out this scums actions killing people, because of legislation and cost cutting is disgusting. I think you need to rethink what is disgustingly pathetic and what isn't. Yes he's relentless, but this is needed or the culprits will sweep it under the carpet over time. Ex Mayor Boris is the person of interest in all this. This isn't a go at you, but have a look at who's posting against ML. The usual suspects.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

They've jailed him. Good!

 

Good, I hope a night or so in the cells gives him time to reflect on what he's done and how distressing those photos would be for family.

[Francis Albert]

Time another city was given the London treatment. A good government policy to help the economy, would be to pull down every single one of these monstrosities and build new estates, they don't have to be back and fronts, new flats, villas and courts. Just let's get rid of these awful concrete slums. And bring back council tradesmen and apprenticeships. Fecking Thatcher sold it all.

 

 

 

And see if that wee twat ex housing minister, now Chief of staff and, Boris have anything to do with this. They better get the book thrown at them.

The tower block "monstrosities" are not the problem. New concrete tower blocks are being built in London at a faster rate than ever and are the only remotely affordable places to live near central London (this also true of Manchester, Liverpool and other English cities). Old council tower blocks have been converted into desirable, popular and expensive private flats ... with the advantage that the floor spacing, room size and storage space in these old council blocks is much more generous than most of the cramped new private flats being built.  If it is true that the refurbishment complied with all regulations then there are potentially very widespread implications. Has anyone said what the cladding was for? Was it decorative or just to make the flats look better from the outside? A lot of the new blocks have fancy looking cladding which looks more decorative than functional.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Some arse hole opened a bodybag and took photos and then posted before them on social media. What a fecking utter scumbag lowlife cretin c#%?.

Seriously???

 

How low can people go. That's attrocious

[aussieh]

The tower block "monstrosities" are not the problem. New concrete tower blocks are being built in London at a faster rate than ever and are the only remotely affordable places to live near central London (this also true of Manchester, Liverpool and other English cities). Old council tower blocks have been converted into desirable, popular and expensive private flats ... with the advantage that the floor spacing, room size and storage space in these old council blocks is much more generous than most of the cramped new private flats being built. If it is true that the refurbishment complied with all regulations then there are potentially very widespread implications. Has anyone said what the cladding was for? Was it decorative or just to make the flats look better from the outside? A lot of the new blocks have fancy looking cladding which looks more decorative than functional.

RememberFA, towers like this were protected with asbestos.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

You think someone pointing out this scums actions killing people, because of legislation and cost cutting is disgusting. I think you need to rethink what is disgustingly pathetic and what isn't. Yes he's relentless, but this is needed or the culprits will sweep it under the carpet over time. Ex Mayor Boris is the person of interest in all this. This isn't a go at you, but have a look at who's posting against ML. The usual suspects.

 

There hasn't even been one funeral yet and some people want to political point score.

 

There will be time for finger pointing and for some political point scoring, but now is not that time.

 

Let the families grieve and bury their dead and once the full story is known and the investigations determine if anyone is to blame.

 

This tragedy in this day and age cannot and will not be sweep under the carpet, this isn't the 80's when it would have been, it's a different culture now, not so easy to bury things anymore.

[aussieh]

There hasn't even been one funeral yet and some people want to political point score.

 

There will be time for finger pointing and for some political point scoring, but now is not that time.

 

Let the families grieve and bury their dead and once the full story is known and the investigations determine if anyone is to blame.

 

This tragedy in this day and age cannot and will not be sweep under the carpet, this isn't the 80's when it would have been, it's a different culture now, not so easy to bury things anymore.

True, but you'll be surprised how easily things can be buried.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

True, but you'll be surprised how easily things can be buried.

 

Not something of this magnitude.

[aussieh]

Not something of this magnitude.

As I said, be prepared to be surprised. I only replied to the post because if or when this ever happens up here, the FM and SNP will be mauled by said posters and rightfully so, if corners have been cut to save money for party donors.

[RobNox]

First read your comparison with Hillsborough and thought bollox - Hillsborough being a major cover-up, taking years to unravel The Grenfell Tower inquiry will flush out the culprits fairly quickly and easily imho.

However, where your comparison's bang on (again imho) is through Hillsborough, stadium design changed. Grenfell Tower will change Fire Regulations and the way old building refurbishments are handled in future.

Fair comment bud.  My comparison with Hillsborough was very much about your latter point. As a result of this tragedy, actions will be taken that should have been in place already.  It's sad that it takes a tragedy that was completely avoidable to force the authorities to wake up and take action.  Too late for the many victims and their families and friends. 

[Francis Albert]

Time another city was given the London treatment. A good government policy to help the economy, would be to pull down every single one of these monstrosities and build new estates, they don't have to be back and fronts, new flats, villas and courts. Just let's get rid of these awful concrete slums. And bring back council tradesmen and apprenticeships. Fecking Thatcher sold it all.

 

 

 

And see if that wee twat ex housing minister, now Chief of staff and, Boris have anything to do with this. They better get the book thrown at them.

The tower block "monstrosities" are not the problem. New concrete tower blocks are being built in London at a faster rate than ever and are the only remotely affordable places to live near central London (this also true of Manchester, Liverpool and other English cities). Old council tower blocks have been converted into desirable, popular and expensive private flats ... with the advantage that the floor spacing, room size and storage space in these old council blocks is much more generous than most of the cramped new private flats being built.  If it is true that the refurbishment complied with all regulations then there are potentially very widespread implications. Has anyone said what the cladding was for? Was it of any functional use or just to make the flats look better from the outside? A lot of the new blocks have fancy looking cladding which looks more decorative than functional.

[aussieh]

The tower block "monstrosities" are not the problem. New concrete tower blocks are being built in London at a faster rate than ever and are the only remotely affordable places to live near central London (this also true of Manchester, Liverpool and other English cities). Old council tower blocks have been converted into desirable, popular and expensive private flats ... with the advantage that the floor spacing, room size and storage space in these old council blocks is much more generous than most of the cramped new private flats being built. If it is true that the refurbishment complied with all regulations then there are potentially very widespread implications. Has anyone said what the cladding was for? Was it of any functional use or just to make the flats look better from the outside? A lot of the new blocks have fancy looking cladding which looks more decorative than functional.

I heard you the first time.

[elvoys]

But regardless of all that, the fact is it should never have gone up like it did. You are arguing about it's existence (which is fine but it's a different area), when the main point is, it exists and the fact it exists doesn't mean it should have went up like it did.

 

That building could have been twice it's height and that still shouldn't have happened.

 

I agree what you are saying about immigration concentration but that's a bigger and different discussion.

Fair enough although I did qualify it as a side note to begin with.

 

I also owe u an apology for bad form on a previous thread so there u go.

Edited June 17, 2017 by elvoys

[elvoys]

Ive been in a rickety, firetrap, cramped block in Highgate (albeit only seven floors) with sealed windows etc where I could have seen a similar mess happen.

 

Thing is each small two flat was going for 500k so I'm not sure this only is a problem with social housing.

Edited June 17, 2017 by elvoys

[argyjambo]

Time another city was given the London treatment. A good government policy to help the economy, would be to pull down every single one of these monstrosities and build new estates, they don't have to be back and fronts, new flats, villas and courts. Just let's get rid of these awful concrete slums. And bring back council tradesmen and apprenticeships. Fecking Thatcher sold it all.

And see if that wee twat ex housing minister, now Chief of staff and, Boris have anything to do with this. They better get the book thrown at them.

Just crawled out of your effing s*******e again? What a wankstain on the face of humanity you are!

[maroonlegions]

[maroonlegions]

THE TORY PROPAGANDA - WHAT'S CHEAPER FOR US IS BAD FOR YOU, SO WE'LL WAVE THE RULES TO MAKE IT SO

This is actually from HM Tory gov, boasting about how cutting red tape & H&S will make social housing much cheaper (less safe).

Disgusting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile.

 

Massive inferno breaks out in East London residential block days after Grenfell Tower fire

A HUGE inferno broke out at a residential block in Shadwell, east London.

EXPRESS.CO.UK

 

 

 

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Kids - don't do drugs.

[Francis Albert]

 

THE TORY PROPAGANDA - WHAT'S CHEAPER FOR US IS BAD FOR YOU, SO WE'LL WAVE THE RULES TO MAKE IT SO

This is actually from HM Tory gov, boasting about how cutting red tape & H&S will make social housing much cheaper (less safe).

Disgusting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile.

 

Massive inferno breaks out in East London residential block days after Grenfell Tower fire

A HUGE inferno broke out at a residential block in Shadwell, east London.

EXPRESS.CO.UK

 

 

 

 

But that's not specifically about social housing. It is about addressing housing shortages generally. And it certainly doesn't say what your interpretation says.  I think I will wait for the enquiry to learn whether changing standards were a factor or whether it could have occurred irrespective of any changes. I am old enough to vividly recall Aberfan which was not immediately seized upon for partisan political reasons, despite it occurring under a Labour government and due to an industrial slag heap owned by the decades long  nationalized Coal Board.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

But that's not specifically about social housing. It is about addressing housing shortages generally. And it certainly doesn't say what your interpretation says. I think I will wait for the enquiry to learn whether changing standards were a factor or whether it could have occurred irrespective of any changes. I am old enough to vividly recall Aberfan which was not immediately seized upon for partisan political reasons, despite it occurring under a Labour government and due to an industrial slag heap owned by the decades long nationalized Coal Board.

I think that the world was a bit different 50 years ago. We have a lot more different, instantaneous sources.

[Francis Albert]

I think that the world was a bit different 50 years ago. We have a lot more different, instantaneous sources.

True. But we had live TV coverage of the desperate rescue efforts. What we didn't have was social media. Whether, in the days following a thing like this, having it  is helpful or enlightening is debatable. I suppose its also true that politics was less divisive. The broad post war consensus (certain industries belonged in the public sector, the NHS should be properly funded, the provision of affordable social housing was a necessity) which all parties bought into survived until Thatcher.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Francis Albert

[Rudolf's Mate]

Legions can you gtf with your pish eh!

[kingantti1874]

Absolutely pathetic to be trying to point score politically using a subject like this..

[Rudolf's Mate]

Those individuals who managed to escape Grenfall see it as political. Who are you to disagree with them?

It's impossible to separate the politics from this tragedy however there's 1 or 2 posters that always take things too far and arguably push their own agendas.

[AlphonseCapone]

Fair enough although I did qualify it as a side note to begin with.

 

I also owe u an apology for bad form on a previous thread so there u go.

I can't think of anything you'd need to apologise to me for but fair play anyway

[Seymour M Hersh]

Those individuals who managed to escape Grenfall see it as political.  Who are you to disagree with them?

 

As far as I can see the vast majority making the biggest political noise are not the people from the tower block. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

We've reached a tipping point in this country. Politicians have never been under more pressure and you can tell from the body language of people like May, Corbyn, Sadiq Khan etc that they're very much in harm's way. It's funny to think that Brexit negotiations start tomorrow. Brexit (which let's face was all down to a game of politics within the Tory party) has dominated everything for the past year but it's a monumental waste of time and effort and what grenfell tower shows it that we'd be better off worrying about the basics of society before anything else. I mean, three weeks ago Theresa May was banging on about legalising fox hunting. Their sense of what matters most is totally warped

[Escobar PHM]

As far as I can see the vast majority making the biggest political noise are not the people from the tower block. 

To be fair I think the people from the tower block are a bit pre-occupied grieving and wondering whats going to become of them to be getting involved in local or national political point scoring. Those who are commenting on behalf of the victims are, for the most part, properly motivated, making reasonably restrained intelligent arguments, and for the most part they are 100% correct to point fingers in the direction they are pointing them.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Escobar PHM

[Seymour M Hersh]

Your first sentence is the point I was making. As for your second, well I must have been reading and viewing different reports to you as it looks like rent-a-mob has turned up in the shape of the SWP and Momentum. 

[maroonlegions]

Absolutely pathetic to be trying to point score politically using a subject like this..

 

Absolutely pathetic  and callous was the way in which May first responded to this tragedy or should i say "non responded" to the residents effected.

 

Also safety fears were ignored on several occasions from that  local Tory council and ex  Tory housing minister, are they to slip quietly into  the night and be unaccountable for there past decisions or lack off??  

 

Are local austerity cuts to social housing and refurbishment to be over looked too??

 

Try telling thus to those that marched on that council.

 

The residents  need answers to very serious questions and had it been a  Labour or Lib Demrun local council or indeed  housing minsters  then the same grievances would manifest.

 

Looking like a lot of Tories do not like these facts up them, tough shite i say.

 

 

Talking about political scoring, this man below is a fecking total bell end and a embarrassment , no words i can find for this utter twat of a "man" and i have reservations using that word too.

 

 

Boris Johnson said safety fears were making UK safe for 'stupid people' 

His comments have not aged well.

 

METRO.CO.UK|BY CHARLES WHITE

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[maroonlegions]

Your first sentence is the point I was making. As for your second, well I must have been reading and viewing different reports to you as it looks like rent-a-mob has turned up in the shape of the SWP and Momentum. 

 

Those supporting justice  for those residents to failings from local councils and  ex housing ministers would have a different take on being called rent a mob.

 

The mob that made austerity cuts  to the social housing bill and gave the go ahead to use  cheaper cladding are entirely different set of mobsters i would say .

[Rudolf's Mate]

The residents need answers to very serious questions and had it been a Labour or Lib Demrun local council or indeed housing minsters then the same grievances would manifest.

 

Khan has just said that not just current government at fault.

[H1B5 Owner]

Back to the events, an interview with the incident commander on the night.

 

Had to decide whether to commit teams to the building interior without a structural assessment being available.

 

Tough call and despite the risk, they went in. Respect.

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Don Dan]

'The cladding on the building was illegal and did not meet the required standards'. London Mayor Khan.

[Escobar PHM]

Your first sentence is the point I was making. As for your second, well I must have been reading and viewing different reports to you as it looks like rent-a-mob has turned up in the shape of the SWP and Momentum. 

Don't worry, there'll be another rent-a-mob along in a wee while, hi-jacking media space, covering things up and diverting attention away from catastrophic failures at various levels of establishment. They are probably being briefed by the CURRENT PM as we speak. I say current because she won't be around for much longer. Her lack of leadership and genuine compassion has been absolutely shocking in a time where just about the whole of the rest of society is rallying round.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Escobar PHM