Entire high rise alight in London

[glynnlondon]

Most councils are populated by idiots who are more worried about their salaries and self-preservation than anything else. Follow private eye for stories about woeful chief execs who leave one council under a cloud (with a big pay off) and roll up in another authority on an equally big wage.

Indeed rotten boroughs is always interesting reading.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Indeed rotten boroughs is always interesting reading.

It's like a hidden underworld where scum are creaming off public money, helped by the fact that council politics is too small-time for anyone to pay real attention

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

It's like a hidden underworld where scum are creaming off public money, helped by the fact that council politics is too small-time for anyone to pay real attention

Whilst giving massive contracts to Crapita for "services".

[Mikey1874]

* the building was built in sixties but they added half a dozen more rows on top.

 

*the building was almost entirely consisting of immigrant population. They were literally living on top of one another.

 

*UK pop growth is almost entirely down to immigration and it is disproportionately concentrated in London where house prices and space is already at a premium.

 

*tower living is therefore a reality but one that is clearly not ideal.

 

I can't think how population growth in London when it comes to the issue of future social housing policy could be more relevant.

You make worthy or at least interesting points

 

But I don't think there were any plans to demolish this block. Perhaps if there were less poor 'immigrants' (I think we'll find most were born here) maybe the block would have been sold and refurbished to higher spec for rich investors and it wouldn't have happened. But that's more about housing and the social class divide.

 

Again a fire that most experts including fire service people say should have been contained to the original flat or at worse surrounding floors spread in minutes into an intense inferno that killed people told to stay in their flats based on that understanding.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Mikey1874

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Very much so. It seems blindingly obvious that any building like that should have serious fire prevention measures.

 

How the **** that building could have no central fire alarm and no sprinkler system I'll never know. It's like operating a train with no breaks. People need to go to prison for this.

 

As far as I'm aware it's not just this tower block but literally hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of tower blocks up and down the country which don't have a sprinkler system, it was never deemed necessary when they were built, simply because they are designed so that a fire should be contained within a particular floor and shouldn't travel to other floors, however that was for an internal fire and as the original buildings were concrete faced the fire wouldn't spread up the outside, so it should never be able to jump floors.

 

Only after the refurbishment had taken place last year or so and with the addition of the exterior cladding did any potential fire have the chance of spreading up the outside of the building and jumping floors.

The cladding seems to be the prime suspect as to how this happened, but to prove criminal responsibility the authorities would need to prove that those who fitted it, bought it or authorised it's use also knew that there would be a serious risk of this sort of thing happening.

 

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, the subsequent investigation will determine that and if anyone has broken the law, then I only hope they face the full weight of it.

[SwindonJambo]

Whilst giving massive contracts to Crapita for "services".

Crapita. Absolutely vile, immoral, unscrupulous See You Next Tuesday of a Company. Thieving rip off merchants who provide a crap service, make undeserved profits, mostly from the tax payer and treat their employees outside the cosseted elite like the dot above the 'i' in the word 'shit'. They were recently relegated from the FTSE 100 to the FTSE 250 - sooo well deserved.

 

I hope they go bust.

[Mikey1874]

As far as I'm aware it's not just this tower block but literally hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of tower blocks up and down the country which don't have a sprinkler system, it was never deemed necessary when they were built, simply because they are designed so that a fire should be contained within a particular floor and shouldn't travel to other floors, however that was for an internal fire and as the original buildings were concrete faced the fire wouldn't spread up the outside, so it should never be able to jump floors.

 

Only after the refurbishment had taken place last year or so and with the addition of the exterior cladding did any potential fire have the chance of spreading up the outside of the building and jumping floors.

The cladding seems to be the prime suspect as to how this happened, but to prove criminal responsibility the authorities would need to prove that those who fitted it, bought it or authorised it's use also knew that there would be a serious risk of this sort of thing happening.

 

Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, the subsequent investigation will determine that and if anyone has broken the law, then I only hope they face the full weight of it.

A good assessment

 

It might be for example the fire service who couldn't seem to help the upper 7/8 floors will be more liable

 

Can see no one getting any real 'blame'

 

But things will improve as lots of 'lessons learned' hopefully

Edited June 17, 2017 by Mikey1874

[Rudolf's Mate]

A good assessment

 

It might be for example the fire service who couldn't seem to help the upper 7/8 floors will be more liable

 

Can see no one getting any real 'blame'

 

But things will improve as lots of 'lessons learned' hopefully

Serious question. Why would the fire services have any kind of liability because they couldn't help the upper floors?

[indianajones]

Serious question. Why would the fire services have any kind of liability because they couldn't help the upper floors?

They wouldn't.

[Rudolf's Mate]

They wouldn't.

I thought maybe something had happened that I wasn't aware of. Like you've said, don't see how they can be liable at all.

[mutley]

.

 

The trouble is there's virtually no area where people are happy to see cuts or where anyone accepts cuts but in reality, cuts have to be made. The country is pretty unstable atm and that's owing to a lot of people going back very many years.

Due to the changes to the fire brigade pensions in a few years time we will be asking 60 year old fire fighters to head in to burning buildings

[AlphonseCapone]

* the building was built in sixties but they added half a dozen more rows on top.

 

*the building was almost entirely consisting of immigrant population. They were literally living on top of one another.

 

*UK pop growth is almost entirely down to immigration and it is disproportionately concentrated in London where house prices and space is already at a premium.

 

*tower living is therefore a reality but one that is clearly not ideal.

 

I can't think how population growth in London when it comes to the issue of future social housing policy could be more relevant.

But regardless of all that, the fact is it should never have gone up like it did. You are arguing about it's existence (which is fine but it's a different area), when the main point is, it exists and the fact it exists doesn't mean it should have went up like it did.

 

That building could have been twice it's height and that still shouldn't have happened.

 

I agree what you are saying about immigration concentration but that's a bigger and different discussion.

Edited June 17, 2017 by AlphonseCapone

[Jambo-Jimbo]

A good assessment

 

It might be for example the fire service who couldn't seem to help the upper 7/8 floors will be more liable

 

Can see no one getting any real 'blame'

 

But things will improve as lots of 'lessons learned' hopefully

 

This might turn out to be one of those tragedies where no one is to blame or indeed liable.

 

I hear folks calling for people to be arrested and somebody needs to be sent to prison for this, well yes if someone has broken the law, then they should be, but i haven't heard anything, not even a suggestion that the cladding used was Illegal in the UK, or any of the other materials used. 

So on the face of what we know about it here and now, it would appear that no laws have been broken that we're aware off, so how does someone need to go to prison if no laws were broken?

 

I am struggiling to understand how the fire service could be liable for not being able to reach the higher floors, as even they are sometimes beaten back by the intensity of a fire.

[Mikey1874]

Serious question. Why would the fire services have any kind of liability because they couldn't help the upper floors?

So if you're above 12th floor you die?

 

Maybe need to tell the people who live there

 

Fire service told them to stay in homes. That advice led to people dying.

 

I understand the realities. People leaving would likely have died from smoke. But some people got out.

 

There is a case against the fire service.

 

And how can't they get to high floors? You might be thinking "it's too high". But why are blocks higher than fire service can get to?

Edited June 17, 2017 by Mikey1874

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

This might turn out to be one of those tragedies where no one is to blame or indeed liable.

 

I hear folks calling for people to be arrested and somebody needs to be sent to prison for this, well yes if someone has broken the law, then they should be, but i haven't heard anything, not even a suggestion that the cladding used was Illegal in the UK, or any of the other materials used. 

So on the face of what we know about it here and now, it would appear that no laws have been broken that we're aware off, so how does someone need to go to prison if no laws were broken?

 

I am struggiling to understand how the fire service could be liable for not being able to reach the higher floors, as even they are sometimes beaten back by the intensity of a fire.

 

No one liable? The first question needs to be who the feck signed off on this shite being allowed to be put onto buildings in the first place, what testing it went through, if any and who signed that off.

[Rudolf's Mate]

So if you're above 12th floor you die?

 

Maybe need to tell the people who live there

 

Fire service told them to stay in homes. That advice led to people dying.

 

I understand the realities. People leaving would likely have died from smoke. But some people got out.

 

There is a case against the fire service.

 

And how can't they get to high floors? You might be thinking "it's too high". But why are blocks higher than fire service can get to?

Eh where did I say anything like that?

 

Maybe the reason the FB told people to stay indoors and that was because they believed it could be contained.

 

Also ladders can only reach so far up and ladders are only made a certain length for a reason.

 

I asked a question. Stop being so touchy!

[Mikey1874]

Eh where did I say anything like that?

 

Maybe the reason the FB told people to stay indoors and that was because they believed it could be contained.

 

Also ladders can only reach so far up and ladders are only made a certain length for a reason.

 

I asked a question. Stop being so touchy!

Nothing against you

 

I chose to expand my point that's all

 

Just bring logical and practical. And also that you can do things that might seem 'impossible' like tackling a fire above 12th floor. I've nothing against fire service though my gut instinct is they could have saved more lives.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

No one liable? The first question needs to be who the feck signed off on this shite being allowed to be put onto buildings in the first place, what testing it went through, if any and who signed that off.

 

If the materials used meet UK safety standards and UK building regulations, then how could anyone be liable?  Liable for what?

 

I think folks need to just calm down and wait and see what the investigation reveals and whether any laws have been broken or not before blaming anyone.

 

And like I've said numerous times now, if any laws have been broken then I'd hope those responsible face the full weight of those laws.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Nothing against you

 

I chose to expand my point that's all

 

Just bring logical and practical. And also that you can do things that might seem 'impossible' like tackling a fire above 12th floor. I've nothing against fire service though my gut instinct is they could have saved more lives.

Mistakes will have been made, without a doubt. Staying inside looks to be one of them.

 

From the outside they struggled due to what looks to have been the materials used on the building. I'm guessing they weren't able to get up further inside due to the conditions.

 

Like many though, I'm guessing.

[Bindy Badgy]

Very much so. It seems blindingly obvious that any building like that should have serious fire prevention measures.

 

How the **** that building could have no central fire alarm and no sprinkler system I'll never know. It's like operating a train with no breaks. People need to go to prison for this.

 

Spot on with the alarm. A man that escaped from the 7th or 8th floor said that he didn't hear an alarm and that he was alerted by the smell.

 

How effective are sprinkler systems? It seems like they would be a good idea in hallways and so on but I'm not sure if they should be used in kitchens. There's plenty of videos on youtube showing what happens when you pour water onto burning oil.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Spot on with the alarm. A man that escaped from the 7th or 8th floor said that he didn't hear an alarm and that he was alerted by the smell.

 

How effective are sprinkler systems? It seems like they would be a good idea in hallways and so on but I'm not sure if they should be used in kitchens. There's plenty of videos on youtube showing what happens when you pour water onto burning oil.

There was an architectural and safety expert on BBC yesterday. He'd been brought in as part of an investigation to another one that occurred (can't recall which). He said sprinklers were one of the recommendations and that he was positive had they been installed it would have contained it.

[hughesie27]

Spot on with the alarm. A man that escaped from the 7th or 8th floor said that he didn't hear an alarm and that he was alerted by the smell.

 

How effective are sprinkler systems? It seems like they would be a good idea in hallways and so on but I'm not sure if they should be used in kitchens. There's plenty of videos on youtube showing what happens when you pour water onto burning oil.

Sprinklers are apparently very effective indoors however once the fire reached the flammable cladding on the outside they wouldn't have been about to do much to stop it spreading.

[Cade]

30 dead, at least 70 still missing.

 

People are still sleeping on the floors of sports halls.

 

There is no central co-ordination either from the council or government: charities, churches and mosques are having to co-ordinate everything between each other on their own.

 

Who's paying for the funerals? How long are insurance claims going to take? What are people supposed to do in the meantime? Will passports and visas lost in the blaze be replaced quickly? Why are the council refusing to re-house everybody inside the council area?

 

The whole thing's a mess.

[maroonlegions]

Theresa May's interview yesterday was awful. Can't answer any question without reverting to robot mode. Sounded like she was talking about unemployment figures or something.

 

No idea who ultimately is to blame for this but she really needs to go.

 

 

Theresa May is slammed for 'inhuman' Newsnight interview

The Prime Minister appeared uncomfortable as she received grilling from the BBC's Emily Maitlis on Newsnight over her actions following the devastating blaze.

DAILYMAIL.CO.UK

 

 Even the Daily Mail a bastion of Tory propaganda has had a pop at her. 

[H1B5 Owner]

Nothing against you

 

I chose to expand my point that's all

 

Just bring logical and practical. And also that you can do things that might seem 'impossible' like tackling a fire above 12th floor. I've nothing against fire service though my gut instinct is they could have saved more lives.

Husband of an ex colleague was one of those attending. Sounds as if all are being torn up inside about events, in some cases, they'd have had to decide who to leave behind.

 

Many will need counselling as a result (access to which incidentally has been reduced during the imposed cut to the FB).

 

The cuts also mean that cover for the rest of London/South will be stretched thin, so there be little/no recovery time.

 

With respect, whilst you may have your gut feeling, I can't imagine they could have done any more.

 

What is known:

 

1) The stay put advice is standard where it's assessed that tower fires can be contained.by the building design. There are many cases where this has happened successfully. Why'd you'd want to, especially now, is another matter.

 

Spare a thought for the call handlers who would've been in contact with those calling for help right to the end. Must be horrific and they'll need sort and understanding in future as well.

 

2) The first at the scene, seeing the rapid escalation, quickly called a Major Incident, which will have been vital in a drawing a large scale coordinated response to Grenfell, doubtless saving more lives.

 

A side note: failure to do so at Hillsborough wss deemed to have severely hampered dealing with the incident in the aftermath.

 

3) Fire teams were sent to upper floors (not clear how far you they got), directed initially by where 999 calls had indicated people were trapped.

 

To finish, they have my full appreciation:

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Jambo-Jimbo]

30 dead, at least 70 still missing.

 

People are still sleeping on the floors of sports halls.

 

There is no central co-ordination either from the council or government: charities, churches and mosques are having to co-ordinate everything between each other on their own.

 

Who's paying for the funerals? How long are insurance claims going to take? What are people supposed to do in the meantime? Will passports and visas lost in the blaze be replaced quickly? Why are the council refusing to re-house everybody inside the council area?

 

The whole thing's a mess.

 

The re-housing issue could simply be down to logistics.

 

You can't re-house 80 families in the area when you only have 40 empty houses (figures used for example only, I don't know the real figures)

 

Replacement Documents, I was thinking about that, I was thinking about what if I were in that situation, what if my house burnt down and all my documents were destroyed, what would I do.

Without looking I couldn't tell you who my house insurance is with (this year) nor the number to call, I'd have to look it up and it isn't that simple to just trot over to the bank and say that I'm this person or that person and I need replacement cards etc etc, you will get someone trying to con the banks, if folks set up fake just giving pages after the Manchester Concert Bombing then claiming to be someone else isn't going to phase these criminals.

Passport, how do you prove that you are you without any documentation.

 

Maybe this is something we all need to address, because fire can hit any home at any time, maybe it would be wise to scan or photograph all your important documents and put the copies in a grab bag or something similar or better still give them to someone in the family whom you can totally trust, so if the originals get destroyed, there are copies with the phone numbers, policy numbers etc etc etc.  

 

[felix]

Sprinklers are apparently very effective indoors however once the fire reached the flammable cladding on the outside they wouldn't have been about to do much to stop it spreading.

The fire started inside.

Sprinklers would have contained it at source, stopping the spread to the exterior, where it got between the insulation & cladding, and spread upwards.

[maroonlegions]

Corruption upon corruption with a good helping of passing the buck and blame.

 

 

 

 One of Britain?s top lawyers finally mentions the Grenfell scandal the media won?t talk about, live on the BBC [AUDIO] | The Canary

THECANARY.CO

 

 

[CJGJ]

Police announce 58 expected to have died...' missing and presumed dead'

Edited June 17, 2017 by CJGJ

[CJGJ]

The fire started inside.

Sprinklers would have contained it at source, stopping the spread to the exterior, where it got between the insulation & cladding, and spread upwards.

I'd leave it to the experts to decide

[Cade]

58 missing presumed dead, including the 16 bodies in the morgue

[Buffalo Bill]

This be a rhetorical question but what chances would people have had by making a bolt for the stairwell? 

 

Would the stairwell itself have had flames shooting up it or 'just' thick smoke (the latter of course is equally deadly).

 

I suppose a lot of people would've remained in their houses in order to be saved, but had they tried to make a run for it, I'm guessing the higher up the tower you were, the less chance of making it out. 

 

It must've have been unimaginably terrifying to have been in their position.

[Dagger Is Back]

 

This be a rhetorical question but what chances would people have had by making a bolt for the stairwell?

 

Would the stairwell itself have had flames shooting up it or 'just' thick smoke (the latter of course is equally deadly).

 

I suppose a lot of people would've remained in their houses in order to be saved, but had they tried to make a run for it, I'm guessing the higher up the tower you were, the less chance of making it out.

 

It must've have been unimaginably terrifying to have been in their position.[/quote

 

Who knows for sure? Only those that were there I guess. From accounts it would seem darkness and thick black smoke were the toxic ingredients facing those trying to flee.

 

If it was me I'd be shitting myself waiting for rescue and I think natural flight would take over for me.

 

Whether that would be the right decision I don't know but I couldn't just sit and wait.

[Rudolf's Mate]

I'd leave it to the experts to decide

An expert said this yesterday.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

This be a rhetorical question but what chances would people have had by making a bolt for the stairwell? 

 

Would the stairwell itself have had flames shooting up it or 'just' thick smoke (the latter of course is equally deadly).

 

I suppose a lot of people would've remained in their houses in order to be saved, but had they tried to make a run for it, I'm guessing the higher up the tower you were, the less chance of making it out. 

 

It must've have been unimaginably terrifying to have been in their position.

 

The stairwell is made entirely out of concrete, so there is nothing to burn, however smoke seems to have been the main problem.

 

Everyone of the people hospitalised are suffering from smoke inhalation, none of the people rescued had burns, so the news on TV were saying the other day.

 

One man who was rescued said that a fireman was lying flat on the ground and grabbed his ankle and lead him to safety, he said you couldn't see right in front of your face.

 

You would have thought that the fire doors on each floor would have prevented most of the smoke from getting into the stairwell, however we don't know if the fire doors had been left open by people fleeing or they had been left open before the fire started on some floors, the fire service will know the answer to that, but that will form part of the investigation.

 

 

[Bindy Badgy]

A lady managed to get out from the 17th floor. She said that her child woke her up and they ran for it as soon as she realised what was happening. My assumption is that a delay of a few minutes would have reduced her chances of survival.

[felix]

I'd leave it to the experts to decide

Part of my job involves fire testing of cladding, and designing suitable fire safety measures, in high rise buildings.

[maroonlegions]

I see that a well known Tory rag and a paper that is not even fit to used as  bog roll has ram with this story.

 

Fecking sick *****.

 

Desperate attempt to take the focus away from that  Grenfell Tower Tory run council and one of Mays present chief of staff that was housing minister at the time people were demanding a whole revue of the safety concerns from fire safety experts and the residents themselves.

 

 

 

"Today The Sun and The Daily Mail have released images of a victim and survivor of Grenfell Tower fire, claiming that his fridge explosion was the source of the fire. There is an ongoing investigation and all relevant agencies have made it clear that such speculation is dangerous and irresponsible.

 

"The articles also state that they have been harassing this man on the phone asking him if he 'started the fire'. Please stop. This man saved peoples lives, and is a traumatised victim that needs to be supported, not harassed and blamed. To shame this man when he is grieving is unspeakably cruel". 

"Regardless of where the fire began, fire safety experts have made it abundantly clear that a fire safe building would have been able to contain the fire and prevent it spreading. The rapid and unusual spread of the fire begs questions of the institutions responsible for the building, not the residents". 

 

 

Can you help?

2,732 signatures are still needed! The Sun and The Daily Mail,  remove articles blaming victims for Grenfell Fire

G C JUST SIGNED THIS PETITION ON CHANGE.ORG.

 

 

[maroonlegions]

The fire started inside.

Sprinklers would have contained it at source, stopping the spread to the exterior, where it got between the insulation & cladding, and spread upwards.

 And that is the primary and most crucial fact that is so damaging  to  those responsible for rejecting the notion of installing sprinklers because of cost and  tenured out to the lowest  contract bidder.

 

Saving a few bucks seems to be the only priority that was a concern to the then Tory minister of housing and the local Tory run council.  

 

Saving money or cutting funding should never come first over fire safety or be applied to  any buildings.

 

Fecking brutal that anyone could even contemplate such blatant  gross misconduct actions in regards to fire safety  never mind defend or implement it. 

 

These actions have cost the lifes of so many individuals and i am at a loss that certain factions of the media are peddling the unfounded accusation that it was more of a residential problem than a local governmental one that contributed to such an avoidable  tragedy. The real sickos are beginning  to manifest.

Edited June 17, 2017 by maroonlegions

[CJGJ]

 And that is the primary and most crucial fact that is so damaging  to  those responsible for rejecting the notion of installing sprinklers because of cost and  tenured out to the lowest  contract bidder.

 

Saving a few bucks seems to be the only priority that was a concern to the then Tory minister of housing and the local Tory run council.  

 

Saving money or cutting funding should never come first over fire safety or be applied to  any buildings.

 

Fecking brutal that anyone could even contemplate such blatant  gross misconduct actions in regards to fire safety  never mind defend or implement it. 

 

These actions have cost the lifes of so many individuals and i am at a loss that certain factions of the media are peddling they unfounded accusation that it was more of a residential problem than a local governmental one that contributed to such an avoidable  tragedy. The real sickos are beginning  to manifest.

There will be a huge background to this story still to come to light such as the claim that residents did not want a sprinkler system fitted because of the inconvenience it would cause...is it true ?,  did the council and builders complete the refurbishment to the best standards ? should the law be that there has to be a mandatory system in place for buildings over a certain height ? was the cladding to blame for the rapid spread ?

 

It is right there is a public enquiry and this time let it be very soon but also let it look at all the facts to learn lessons for the future.

 

For now lets help those in need and help the families of the victims but even that is not easy at short notice in terms of rehousing but we can make sure they have their basic needs met in terms of clothes, food, shelter and sad though it is to say the burial costs for the victims.

[Bindy Badgy]

There will be a huge background to this story still to come to light such as the claim that residents did not want a sprinkler system fitted because of the inconvenience it would cause...is it true ??

 

My post from yesterday:

 

Councillor Judith Blakeman was on BBC News just now saying that she was at all bar one of the consultations around the refurbishments and that sprinkler systems were not discussed at any of the meetings she was at. Comments were made at around 11:10 if anyone wants to see the interview on Iplayer.

 

 

Ms Blakeman challenged the person that made the claim that the residents did not want the sprinkler system to provide supporting evidence.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Stokesy

[Rudolf's Mate]

I see that a well known Tory rag and a paper that is not even fit to used as bog roll has ram with this story.

 

Fecking sick *****.

 

Desperate attempt to take the focus away from that Grenfell Tower Tory run council and one of Mays present chief of staff that was housing minister at the time people were demanding a whole revue of the safety concerns from fire safety experts and the residents themselves.

 

 

 

"Today The Sun and The Daily Mail have released images of a victim and survivor of Grenfell Tower fire, claiming that his fridge explosion was the source of the fire. There is an ongoing investigation and all relevant agencies have made it clear that such speculation is dangerous and irresponsible.

 

"The articles also state that they have been harassing this man on the phone asking him if he 'started the fire'. Please stop. This man saved peoples lives, and is a traumatised victim that needs to be supported, not harassed and blamed. To shame this man when he is grieving is unspeakably cruel".

 

"Regardless of where the fire began, fire safety experts have made it abundantly clear that a fire safe building would have been able to contain the fire and prevent it spreading. The rapid and unusual spread of the fire begs questions of the institutions responsible for the building, not the residents".

 

Can you help?

2,732 signatures are still needed! The Sun and The Daily Mail, remove articles blaming victims for Grenfell Fire

G C JUST SIGNED THIS PETITION ON CHANGE.ORG.

 

It's the rags doing what they do regardless of political stance. Had **** all to do with trying to deflect blame. They could all print this guys picture however it could have happened to anyone.

[aussieh]

Agreed they've done that with an area down here near Portsmouth and it's worked plus revitalised the area.

 

Unfortunately it's a bit harder for areas like London. Think I read there were 700 high rise there alone!

 

Sure I read that there were 1500 of these empty properties around that area alone. I'm against seizing them however surely properties that have been empty for 12+ months with no work done could be used as a temp measure.

Time another city was given the London treatment. A good government policy to help the economy, would be to pull down every single one of these monstrosities and build new estates, they don't have to be back and fronts, new flats, villas and courts. Just let's get rid of these awful concrete slums. And bring back council tradesmen and apprenticeships. Fecking Thatcher sold it all.

 

 

 

And see if that wee twat ex housing minister, now Chief of staff and, Boris have anything to do with this. They better get the book thrown at them.

Edited June 17, 2017 by aussieh

[aussieh]

Drowning and burning alive are my worst nightmares.

 

RIP ever lost soul.

[Cade]

So if they have 30 confirmed dead, how do they only have 16 bodies?

 

Genuinely confused.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Time another city was given the London treatment. A good government policy to help the economy, would be to pull down every single one of these monstrosities and build new estates, they don't have to be back and fronts, new flats, villas and courts. Just let's get rid of these awful concrete slums. And bring back council tradesmen and apprenticeships. Fecking Thatcher sold it all.

 

 

 

And see if that wee twat ex housing minister, now Chief of staff and, Boris have anything to do with this. They better get the book thrown at them.

That minister won't survive this. Guaranteed May will have him fall on his sword to try and save herself!

[aussieh]

That minister won't survive this. Guaranteed May will have him fall on his sword to try and save herself!

And hopefully the Met want a word.

[Rudolf's Mate]

And hopefully the Met want a word.

If it's correct what's being said then it would be disgusting if they didn't.

[aussieh]

If it's correct what's being said then it would be disgusting if they didn't.

This!

[CJGJ]

Emotion is in danger of overtaking reason and whilst I understand and sympathise with much of it there are times we need to let others do their job then ask questions not make statements without foundation.

There should be as much help as is needed and if ?5 million is not enough then make it ?10/?15 million or more

 

Help is what is needed now and answers shortly after a thorough review.....though we should be able to make some recommendations fairly quickly to ensure other high rise blocks are checked and improvements if needed actioned.