Cooncil Elections

[Doogz]

There is not one Sep Nazi Party member in Westminster that doesn't want independence. I squirm and sometimes feel embarrassed to be Scottish when that fairy Robertson gets up to speak and as for that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh the less said about her the better. She makes Abbott look like the brains of Britain.

Fairy ? Nazi party ? The level of political discussion just keeps getting better & better !

[Bowmans_Boot]

Fairy ? Nazi party ? The level of political discussion just keeps getting better & better !

Yep. You have to ignore the under 10 comments to feel motivated to post. Fortunately there are intelligent and decent posters, such as deeside, even though I do not agree with him at all.

[Maroon Sailor]

Fairy ? Nazi party ? The level of political discussion just keeps getting better & better !

Just the way I see them and him. Love it if he got emptied.

 

No offence

 

And in fairness Corbyn was called a mutton headed old mugwump the other day so I am in keeping with the level

[Maroon Sailor]

No question and I am sure that all of the members of the SNP do, as well.

That wasnt the point, though. The point was that people do vote SNP without supporting independence.

Pity the Westminster lot don't acknowledge that then

[Doogz]

Just the way I see them and him.

 

No offence

Please take a moment and think about what you posted - have a think about labelling the SNP nazis while also calling someone a fairy. Hopefully you'll be able to see the hypocrisy and avoid using this sort of emotive hyperbole ongoing. It detracts from any valid points you may make.

[Maroon Sailor]

Please take a moment and think about what you posted - have a think about labelling the SNP nazis while also calling someone a fairy. Hopefully you'll be able to see the hypocrisy and avoid using this sort of emotive hyperbole ongoing. It detracts from any valid points you may make.

Will do

[Pans Jambo]

No one has pointed out that the Tories fielded a lot less candidates on Thursday than the SNP or Labour and yet so many of them won on the first round.

 

Makes you wonder how many more they would have if they had two instead of one candidate on ballot papers.

Even riseable filth has a limit.

[Thunderstruck]

If course their goal is Indy. But as they also stand for Westminster etc then they get votes from people who are happy for that to remain but don't want full Indy.

 

That's why the SNP got higher percent of vote share in elections than the percentage who vote for Indy.

 

The dafties think if the SNP get say 51% in an election then they should call an IndyRef asap and start with the smug tick-tock smiley posts on KB.

 

But they fail to recognise the delta percent.

There is also a significant anti-Tory vote and some more gullible voters have swallowed the line that the SNP is "the only real opposition to the Tories".

 

I think we kid ourselves if we think that a large part of the electorate is driven by manifestos - they will vote for the party "they have voted for since they were old enough" as it is tribal.

[Space Mackerel]

Lol

Looks it to me but who knows

Enough to make the front page of here today.

 

 

 

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[Thunderstruck]

Enough to make the front page of here today.

 

 

 

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It's MSM - it can't be true. Surely you aren't falling for propaganda.

[Trapper John McIntyre]

Christ, the fear from the Natz is getting truly out of hand if they're resorting to wheeling out Orange Order conspiracies.

 

On a side note, looks like Eck is now within Tory sights in Gordon. He's being looking particularly seedy of late. Hopefully private polling is showing potential bad news.

 

Lovely thought.

[Space Mackerel]

Christ, the fear from the Natz is getting truly out of hand if they're resorting to wheeling out Orange Order conspiracies.

 

On a side note, looks like Eck is now within Tory sights in Gordon. He's being looking particularly seedy of late. Hopefully private polling is showing potential bad news.

 

Lovely thought.

Sounds like you're going to win every seat with 26% of the vote.

 

 

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[MacDonald Jardine]

Enough to make the front page of here today.

 

 

 

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"McHarg said at least six of members had been elected as councillors, with dozens more sympathisers also returned in the local elections.

The Grand Master said the Orange Order now had more elected politicians in Scotland among its membership than at any time in nearly 20 years."

 

They're unstoppable eh?

[Beni]

I'm no in the habit of trying tae pull fellow SNP voters up but there's a couple on here that do more damage than good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's a logical explanation for that.

[Space Mackerel]

"McHarg said at least six of members had been elected as councillors, with dozens more sympathisers also returned in the local elections.

The Grand Master said the Orange Order now had more elected politicians in Scotland among its membership than at any time in nearly 20 years."

They're unstoppable eh?

Imagine if a Catholic phones for a special uplift from somewhere in Coatbridge. The item will be on the pavement for years now.

 

 

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[Space Mackerel]

And then this pops up [emoji849]

 

 

 

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[MacDonald Jardine]

Imagine if a Catholic phones for a special uplift from somewhere in Coatbridge. The item will be on the pavement for years now.

 

 

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I don't know that many Councillors have much to do with uplifts.

You'd have to be particularly unfortunate though to live in a ward represented (partially) by one of the 6.

[JamboX2]

And then this pops up [emoji849]

 

 

 

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Popped up in 2012...

[JamboX2]

Enough to make the front page of here today.

 

 

 

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There's a big stramash between a few Herald/Sunday Herald writers on twitter about that front page.

 

Some of their own staff seem to think its inflamatory as the front page doesn't show any of the councillors but stock photos of lodgemembers.

 

Sunday Herlad is generally a good paper but it's fast going downhill by increasingly playing the National style of nationalist fan boyism.

[Sarah O]

Enough to make the front page of here today.

 

 

 

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I think the badge on the right tit of that right tit says everything we need to know about the creatures of the Orange Order:  LOL  

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Given that the SNP fielded 650 candidates and the evil Tories 380, it is no surprise the SNP get more chosen as they often put forward two or more candidates per Ward.

 

If the candidate numbers were equal then the outcome would be very different.

 

They did on my ward, out of the 5 candidates there were 2 SNP, 1 Tory, 1 Lib Dem & 1 Independent.

 

 

There is not one Sep Nazi Party member in Westminster that doesn't want independence. I squirm and sometimes feel embarrassed to be Scottish when that fairy Robertson gets up to speak and as for that Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh the less said about her the better. She makes Abbott look like the brains of Britain.

 

You do know that she's English, born in London and was a fully paid up member of the Scottish Conservatives, even being a candidate for a seat for the Tories in the 1999 Scottish Parliamentary Elections were she came 3rd.  She was also briefly a member of the Scottish Labour party before joining the SNP.

 

Her political allegiances have been all over the place.

[Thunderstruck]

Imagine if a Catholic phones for a special uplift from somewhere in Coatbridge. The item will be on the pavement for years now.

 

 

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You could do us all a favour cut the sectarian BS. Both sides of that stupid equation can point to voting along sectarian and even ethnic lines. It's the last thing this "debate" needs.

[Maroon Sailor]

You do know that she's English, born in London and was a fully paid up member of the Scottish Conservatives, even being a candidate for a seat for the Tories in the 1999 Scottish Parliamentary Elections were she came 3rd. She was also briefly a member of the Scottish Labour party before joining the SNP.

 

Her political allegiances have been all over the place.

Terrible politician

[jambos are go!]

On Scottish Politics today they are saying the SNP only got 33% of the vote And labour did a lot better than any expectations.

[Rudy T]

And then this pops up [emoji849]

 

 

 

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In 2012!!! You're getting desperate now. And interesting to note labour are also represented by the orange lodge....where's your foaming at that???

[Space Mackerel]

You could do us all a favour cut the sectarian BS. Both sides of that stupid equation can point to voting along sectarian and even ethnic lines. It's the last thing this "debate" needs.

Trying to deny it exists in Scotland?

 

Or doesn't suit your Tory narrative?

[Space Mackerel]

There's a big stramash between a few Herald/Sunday Herald writers on twitter about that front page.

 

Some of their own staff seem to think its inflamatory as the front page doesn't show any of the councillors but stock photos of lodgemembers.

 

Sunday Herlad is generally a good paper but it's fast going downhill by increasingly playing the National style of nationalist fan boyism.

For a lefty, you seem to be hell bent on putting the boot in on anything "Nationalist"

 

Are we not allowed any pro Indy papers now? Aren't there enough Yoonyinist papers about?

[Space Mackerel]

On Scottish Politics today they are saying the SNP only got 33% of the vote And labour did a lot better than any expectations.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Trying to deny it exists in Scotland?

 

Or doesn't suit your Tory narrative?

It exists but not to the extent people like you like to make out.

 

 

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[Thunderstruck]

Trying to deny it exists in Scotland?

 

Or doesn't suit your Tory narrative?

Denying it exists?

 

Tory narrative?

[Space Mackerel]

It exists but not to the extent people like you like to make out.

 

 

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Not sure what's being made out by me. Im only going on the Lodges tweets and what's in the paper.

 

But if you're happy that religious bigots are back filling local government then crack on.

[Space Mackerel]

Denying it exists?

 

Tory narrative?

I'm guessing that missed who the author was in that article "Tory hoose"

[Thunderstruck]

I'm guessing that missed who the author was in that article "Tory hoose"

Reading and comprehensive are vying with numeracy as your weakest suits.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Not sure what's being made out by me. Im only going on the Lodges tweets and what's in the paper.

 

But if you're happy that religious bigots are back filling local government then crack on.

Back filling local government?

Six councillors across Scotland they claim.

Is that front page news?

 

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[markphmfc]

On Scottish Politics today they are saying the SNP only got 33% of the vote And labour did a lot better than any expectations.

**** me if labour did better than expected they must have secretly been fearing a complete wipe out.

[Rudy T]

Not sure what's being made out by me. Im only going on the Lodges tweets and what's in the paper.

 

But if you're happy that religious bigots are back filling local government then crack on.

Right then now you have nowhere to go, I've been waiting for you too come out with this.

 

Tell us all why Alex Samond was expelled from the SNP in 80s...This is your former leader not some councillor. Also tell us why Allan Casey was warned for his behaviour but still allowed to stand for election....

 

C'mon Spacey now you've made your position clear on bigotry answer the questions...and tell us all why your still a member of the SNP....

[JamboX2]

For a lefty, you seem to be hell bent on putting the boot in on anything "Nationalist"

 

Are we not allowed any pro Indy papers now? Aren't there enough Yoonyinist papers about?

I don't agree with a sectionalised press.

 

Yes you can have pro-indy papers. Personally I try and read a mix. There's a great quote from Jefferson "if you can afford a newspaper buy the one you disagree with". Try to apply it to my reading.

 

And the left has traditionally always opposed nationalism. Internationalism and nationalism are generally juxtaposed.

 

But then again being a unionist or nationalist matters a **** to me. Neither addresses issues of poverty, inequality or any other societal issue. It's frankly a waste of our time.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I don't agree with a sectionalised press.

 

Yes you can have pro-indy papers. Personally I try and read a mix. There's a great quote from Jefferson "if you can afford a newspaper buy the one you disagree with". Try to apply it to my reading.

 

And the left has traditionally always opposed nationalism. Internationalism and nationalism are generally juxtaposed.

 

But then again being a unionist or nationalist matters a **** to me. Neither addresses issues of poverty, inequality or any other societal issue. It's frankly a waste of our time.

 

But is there anything left of the internationalist left?  It's completely kaput in the Soviet world, replaced by Putin's right-wing authoritarianism.  China is still nominally communist but it's being as aggressive in international markets as any hedge fund.  France's communists managed barely a sputter in the face of the neofascist FN.  Lula and Chavez were the great new hopes for a Latin American leftism and both have their legacy in complete tatters.  And then there's British Labour and the US Democratic Left, who are trying for a revival but it's sputtering away.

 

Meanwhile, there's repeated instances of a kind of internationally open but still very regionally focused leftism succeeding where internationalist leftism is currently gasping.  In Latin America, Evo Morales is the only one of the leftist revival truly still standing, and while he bought into the new internationalism that Chavez tried to form, he spent far more time building strong foundations at home.  In Canada the Alberta New Democrats have won as social democrats in historically one of the most conservative provinces in the entire country by again, focusing on Alberta first.  There's separatist/resistance groups like the Zapatistas or the various Catalonian groups are having success in countries that continue to lean to the right.

 

The logic of internationally organized labor just isn't strong enough to win anything in post-industrial areas (to say nothing of the inherent problems with it from the outset).  I'm on board with a lot of the critiques of the SNP from the left, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Scotland is the only place in the UK not capitulating to the Tories.

[JamboX2]

But is there anything left of the internationalist left? It's completely kaput in the Soviet world, replaced by Putin's right-wing authoritarianism. China is still nominally communist but it's being as aggressive in international markets as any hedge fund. France's communists managed barely a sputter in the face of the neofascist FN. Lula and Chavez were the great new hopes for a Latin American leftism and both have their legacy in complete tatters. And then there's British Labour and the US Democratic Left, who are trying for a revival but it's sputtering away.

 

Meanwhile, there's repeated instances of a kind of internationally open but still very regionally focused leftism succeeding where internationalist leftism is currently gasping. In Latin America, Evo Morales is the only one of the leftist revival truly still standing, and while he bought into the new internationalism that Chavez tried to form, he spent far more time building strong foundations at home. In Canada the Alberta New Democrats have won as social democrats in historically one of the most conservative provinces in the entire country by again, focusing on Alberta first. There's separatist/resistance groups like the Zapatistas or the various Catalonian groups are having success in countries that continue to lean to the right.

 

The logic of internationally organized labor just isn't strong enough to win anything in post-industrial areas (to say nothing of the inherent problems with it from the outset). I'm on board with a lot of the critiques of the SNP from the left, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Scotland is the only place in the UK not capitulating to the Tories.

This will be tested in the coming month. And will be a very interesting battle.

[aussieh]

Right then now you have nowhere to go, I've been waiting for you too come out with this.

 

Tell us all why Alex Samond was expelled from the SNP in 80s...This is your former leader not some councillor. Also tell us why Allan Casey was warned for his behaviour but still allowed to stand for election....

 

C'mon Spacey now you've made your position clear on bigotry answer the questions...and tell us all why your still a member of the SNP....

The 79 group were expelled. Not for long. As for Casey, I'd jail the fecker, a waste of space.

[aussieh]

This will be tested in the coming month. And will be a very interesting battle.

oh ma sides. Tested good yin.

[markphmfc]

Right then now you have nowhere to go, I've been waiting for you too come out with this.

 

Tell us all why Alex Samond was expelled from the SNP in 80s...This is your former leader not some councillor. Also tell us why Allan Casey was warned for his behaviour but still allowed to stand for election....

 

C'mon Spacey now you've made your position clear on bigotry answer the questions...and tell us all why your still a member of the SNP....

He does seem to have a agenda against pro union supporters and it's also showing he's got a thing against loyalists. Personally I have no leanings either way however he's shown his hand. Biggest surprise is he's not singing Corbyn's praises for being a terrorist sympathiser.

 

Strange stuff indeed.

[Rudy T]

But is there anything left of the internationalist left? It's completely kaput in the Soviet world, replaced by Putin's right-wing authoritarianism. China is still nominally communist but it's being as aggressive in international markets as any hedge fund. France's communists managed barely a sputter in the face of the neofascist FN. Lula and Chavez were the great new hopes for a Latin American leftism and both have their legacy in complete tatters. And then there's British Labour and the US Democratic Left, who are trying for a revival but it's sputtering away.

 

Meanwhile, there's repeated instances of a kind of internationally open but still very regionally focused leftism succeeding where internationalist leftism is currently gasping. In Latin America, Evo Morales is the only one of the leftist revival truly still standing, and while he bought into the new internationalism that Chavez tried to form, he spent far more time building strong foundations at home. In Canada the Alberta New Democrats have won as social democrats in historically one of the most conservative provinces in the entire country by again, focusing on Alberta first. There's separatist/resistance groups like the Zapatistas or the various Catalonian groups are having success in countries that continue to lean to the right.

 

The logic of internationally organized labor just isn't strong enough to win anything in post-industrial areas (to say nothing of the inherent problems with it from the outset). I'm on board with a lot of the critiques of the SNP from the left, but I don't think it's a coincidence that Scotland is the only place in the UK not capitulating to the Tories.

I seriously believe if a new party was formed in Scotland which embraced the Scottish people and set out an agenda to use the devolved powers without the continual push for independence they would gain a large proportion of the vote.

 

There is without doubt a strong feeling of identity to being Scottish but clearly not an over whelming shift to nationalism and all out independence. And who can blame the public there's little trust in any political party as all the SNP can offer is theory and mibbes aye mibbes naw as the reality is they can't answer all the questions to convince enough people to go for it. Brexit was driven by fear and similarly independence was rejected through fear of the unknown.

 

I genuinely believe the SNP are misreading the public opinion. The remain camp will run a scare campaign based on economic downturn and immigration and that might just be enough to narrowly win again. At that point I sincerely hope Nicola Sturgeon takes that as an indication that we want her to govern the country and use our devolved powers to there maximum.

 

The tactical voting that will occur at this GE is no good for this country. We need a strong opposition to May and the torries in Westminster and if that comes in the form of the SNP then great for us, but with the rhetoric purely based on independence they won't get the backing they need.

[deesidejambo]

Full council results now available

http://www.electionsscotland.info/downloads/file/351/slge2017_summary_results_data

 

I'm no expert that suggest to me we could be looking at no Labour, but quite a few Tory MPs next month.

As predicted!

 

First preference votes are an indicator of how the GE voter share will turn out.

 

Tories 25.3%

SNP 32.3%

 

So the SNP are miles away from where they need to be with respect to Indy.

 

Note the correct way to do this is remove Independents to get an indication of voter share at the GE.  The Nats on this site dont agree with this method, but for those who do understand what it means, the SNP are on 36% of voter share.

 

Indy is sunk.

[deesidejambo]

It is interesting you choose to assume your greater intelligence and understanding when there at a few things that need to be considered before you just remove the independent's votes.

 

They have voted in a Local Election therefor are very likely to vote in a General Election, their votes hold the balance of power in many regions, even the ones that are no controlled by Independent Candidates. We have no way of knowing how they normally vote, nor how they will vote this time.

 

It is a real stretch to imagine that those voting for the SNP since 2014 have switched to Conservative in any significant number, so I think it is fair to assume many just didn't bother voting, the SNP need to get the vote out and motivate these people. I expect some look how many Tories we could have if you don't vote SNP billboards.

I said all along it's an indicator only. Leave the Independents in if you choose.

 

My point all along has been that the SNP vote share is dropping. The results confirm that in my view.

 

Of course June may be different, but good for you if you think the SNP will get back to their previous levels.

[deesidejambo]

Have you? You seem to have pretty big hard on about them for something that is only an indicator.

 

I have no idea at the moment how many MPs the SNP will get, ultimately it doesn't really affect independence unless they go back down to the dingle digits of before.  These figures are useful as they are from people actually getting out and voting, but there are some extra considerations to be added into the mix.

 

For example the SNP polled 33% in 2012 Local Elections, having polled 45% in 2011 Scottish Parliament Election. in 2016 Scottish Parliament SNP got 46% and then polled 33% in the Local Elections.

 

These examples are not like for like as turnout was not the same etc... however it would suggest to me, although I am no expert, that the SNP vote is holding steady, not increasing I'll grant you, but not falling either.

 

Labour voters are jumping ship to the Conservatives in their thousands and although common down south we have never seen this before in Scotland.

What you will see in the GE is a bit more tactical voting.  Labour and Liberal  are now firmly anti Indy2 so I would expect some votes to go back to them, but also in seats where Labour have a chance at unseating an SNP MP then they will capture the anti-Indy voters tactically so Labour may get a few seats back.

 

A key for the anti-andy campaign is to avoid splitting their vote, which is what currently happens.

 

At the end of it all, we will get another Indy2 referendum. 

[manaliveits105]

33 % oh dear - are there any  33 badges on sale yet ??

[Boris]

I wonder if anyone could be arsed collating the ward first preference votes into parliamentary constituencies and see what that would mean.

[Space Mackerel]

I wonder if anyone could be arsed collating the ward first preference votes into parliamentary constituencies and see what that would mean.

Think Sky had the SNP on 54 seats.

[Boris]

Think Sky had the SNP on 54 seats.

So the same as they have now.