Pittodrie "Unfit for Purpose"

[IveSeenTheLight]

500 Aberdeen fans in the central belt

 

How many do you think there are?

[Beast Boy]

See if someone came along and said that they would build you a new stadium for the same price with the same facilities on the Pitodrie site, would you prefer that option?

[N Lincs Jambo]

 

 

Or, when fans start enjoying the whole experience of going to games more (Pittodrie is a tough place to love) the crowds could well go up and stay up.

 

I struggle to see how any new stadium could be worse than Pittodrie.

 

I've not had a season ticket since Skovdahl was manager. A combination of working weekends and moving to Glasgow, but also not particularly enjoying Pittodrie as a stadium (I go to more away games than home ones). However, I would likely make more effort to go to Kingsford and six of us who currently don't have season tickets have talked about getting for any safe standing section.

 

 

   

 

Are you suggesting Aberdeen fans don't have the same feeling towards Stewart Milne as Hearts fans do for Ann Budge?

 

 

 

 

In order to adhere to the current building/safety regs nowadays the footprint of the stadium would need to be larger than it currently is. Wider walkways, shallower gradient of the terraces etc. This may be an issue for Hearts should they need to redevelop the other three stands. The Chris Robertson stuff, I'm no expert on it, but was he not just suggesting Hearts couldn't rebuild the main stand which Budge has now found a way around? For Aberdeen there would be flats that needed knocked down rather than just a nursery.

 

There's also the fact that the south stand is gradually sinking into the ground. An engineer would want the entire site dug up and filled with proper upfill material before any new building work would be allowed to commence.

 

Redeveloping Pittodrie might not be impossible, but it would cost us more than building a new one, we would have less cash to start with because we wouldn't have anything to sell to fund it, and we would likely have less facilities there that we're able to incorporate into a new ground so even if we managed to build something it wouldn't be as good as a new one. Seems a huge cost and effort just so we can stay at "home".

 

Pittodrie isn't an ideal location anyway. Kingsford not ideal either but it's not significantly worse either, just lack of public transport and parking the main issues. Think fans would have liked to see Bucksburn and a link-up with the new AECC as the preferred place as it's within the city, close to the new bypass, would be able to use the parking facilities at the AECC as well as building our own therefore doubling the amount of spaces that will be available at Kingsford, and there's a train station not too far away (and think I read one is going to be built at AECC).

 

But, not sure there's available land and Kingsford has potential. The big thing for me it lacks (contrary to popular opinion there are plenty bars), is a train station as relying solely on shuttle buses isn't a good idea. Hopefully, with all the other developments being built in the area, it'll be something given consideration to in future.

 

Cheers for the detailed info! With regards to the highlighted bit, there was a massive suspicion amongst the Hearts support that the Pieman needed to sell Tynecastle because he had completely screwed things up. I'd have been in favour of a move to Murrayfield had there been any chance we could have filled it on a regular basis but crowds would have been down not up and even some European ties we played there were in a half empty stadium even though these were some of the highest attendances we have ever had in Europe (32/33K).

 

It does seem that your move away from Pittodrie has got far more support than I realised. I posted earlier that Pittodrie used to be a cracking away day when we had the whole of the old Beach End stand. Arrive early, head to the Prince of Wales for a few jars then off to the match. One of the few away venues I would quite often not drive to so I could have a few...

[IveSeenTheLight]

What about the situation for visting fans re the proposed new ground position? does this significantly affect the journey time if coming by train for example, and how much time would it save if travelling by car?

 

It could be debated that for fans travelling to the match by car or supporters bus, it's definitely easier at the new ground.

Indeed, with up to 60 spaces for away coaches, it more than covers the typical away fan travelling to the stadium.

Indeed, this is better options for travelling support than currently available at any Premier League ground.

 

For those going by train, there are options available and whilst yes, it may be a little more onerous, but in the broad context, inconsequential.

There is a commitment to increase shuttle buses to the ground, making it easier to get to

 

There is a good article focusing on the transportation here

http://www.afc.co.uk/downloads/Nov_Exhibition_06_Transport.pdf

[IveSeenTheLight]

See if someone came along and said that they would build you a new stadium for the same price with the same facilities on the Pitodrie site, would you prefer that option?

 

That's a bit of a hypothetical moot point, because it is simply not the case to be realistic or achievable.

[La_Leyenda]

How many do you think there are?

Far more than 500.

 

Source: I live in Glasgow. I've seen 500 at a Supporters function in Glasgow alone, never mind the rest of the central belt.

 

Unless you meant 500 that regularly go to games, which would be more accurate.

[Beast Boy]

That's a bit of a hypothetical moot point, because it is simply not the case to be realistic or achievable.

It hardly requires an imagine the size of Tolkien's to be honest, Floss'. I'm not asking you to imagine a new periodic table or colour.

[IveSeenTheLight]

Far more than 500.

 

Source: I live in Glasgow. I've seen 500 at a Supporters function in Glasgow alone, never mind the rest of the central belt.

 

Unless you meant 500 that regularly go to games, which would be more accurate.

 

Of course I was talking about those who go and support the club.

 

No idea how many non game attending fans there are out there

[La_Leyenda]

See if someone came along and said that they would build you a new stadium for the same price with the same facilities on the Pitodrie site, would you prefer that option?

Interesting question.

 

I suppose, yes. It would still have many drawbacks (takes longer to get away from, still right next to the North Sea) but public transport (currently) and range of bars would trump Kingsford.

 

But, my preferred option would be a new stadium in a different location. As said in a previous post, Bucksburn, but I don't know how realistic that actually is.

 

They're getting the Kingsford site on the cheap which is a big draw. Certainly cheaper than Loirston and I imagine cheaper than anywhere else in the city.

[La_Leyenda]

Of course I was talking about those who go and support the club.

 

No idea how many non game attending fans there are out there

Millions mate

[IveSeenTheLight]

It hardly requires an imagine the size of Tolkien's to be honest, Floss'. I'm not asking you to imagine a new periodic table or colour.

 

We'll I'd rather sign Messi for a pound if were getting all hypothetical.

 

It's impossible to deliver the same opportunity for the same delta price.

If there was, it would have been seriously considered.

 

The facts are, that the club would significantly increase their facilities with future options available at a fraction of the price it would take to rebuild on a restricted Pittodrie site.

[Romanov Stole My Pension]

It's good to get some insight from Aberdeen supporters and some decent discussion, but whenever there's a thread about Aberdeen there's always this weird online aggression towards them. A bit strange.

[Beast Boy]

Interesting question.

 

I suppose, yes. It would still have many drawbacks (takes longer to get away from, still right next to the North Sea) but public transport (currently) and range of bars would trump Kingsford.

 

But, my preferred option would be a new stadium in a different location. As said in a previous post, Bucksburn, but I don't know how realistic that actually is.

 

They're getting the Kingsford site on the cheap which is a big draw. Certainly cheaper than Loirston and I imagine cheaper than anywhere else in the city.

Thanks.

 

It was a bit of an eye-opener to me when I had a read of one of your club's forums, and from a couple of comments on here, to discover that many of you guys don't have the same emotional attachment to Pittodrie as we do with Tynecastle. Id have been pretty devastated if we had moved from Tynecastle and I just assumed every club's fans would feel similarly about their own grounds.

[La_Leyenda]

Thanks.

 

It was a bit of an eye-opener to me when I had a read of one of your club's forums, and from a couple of comments on here, to discover that many of you guys don't have the same emotional attachment to Pittodrie as we do with Tynecastle. Id have been pretty devastated if we had moved from Tynecastle and I just assumed every club's fans would feel similarly about their own grounds.

We_are_the_hearts and N Lincs Jambo kinda summed it up when they said they used to enjoy visiting Pittodrie, and now they don't.

 

I think most Aberdeen fans lost that attachment when the club first moved home fans from the beach end, then knocked it down, then abandoned the rebuild and spent 20 years talking about a new stadium.

 

It's never been the same since atmosphere wise. The club should have either, and it hurts to say it, but done a Hearts and looked to redevelop all or some the stadium in the 90s, or left it alone and commited to a stadium move. The Richard Donald Stand has more than paid for itself (?4m it cost when built in 1993) in the sense it brought in valuable corporate income, but you do wonder what the hell they were thinking with a two tiered stand.

 

They originally wanted the RDS at the opposite end of the stadium, so the beach end would have stayed in place, but the residents in the flats behind it complained because it would have cut out their light (apt considering the OP). The club also tried to buy the land behind the South Stand. Had they been successful then I wonder where we would be today and what the feelings towards Pittodrie would be.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

It's good to get some insight from Aberdeen supporters and some decent discussion, but whenever there's a thread about Aberdeen there's always this weird online aggression towards them. A bit strange.

I don't particularly get that bit either, they seem decent enough guys. (a tad delusional at times, but decent enough)

[portobellojambo1]

Aberdeen fans seem to be mostly in favour of moving though. Unlike Hearts fans who were determined to stay at Tynecastle if possible .Thankfully it was.

 

I'm not familiar with the local geography but I'm sure I read at some point in the past the new stadium is going west of Aberdeen, a place called Kingswells, which I think might be above the local snow line. I did have a look at Kingswells at the time on Google and it seemed the nearest boozer was a fair bit away from where the stadium is planned to go. At least with Pittodrie there are plenty of watering holes close at hand.

[Erik]

500 Aberdeen fans in the central belt is a good one

 

Five hundred hahaha, that's brilliant!!!

[Harry Potter]

Scotland's third biggest team eh?

With their midweek crowds of 8000 they are falling behind hibs making them no5 in the crowd issue.

[stranraer-jambo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39290459

 

 

Aberdeenshire councillors object to Aberdeen FC stadium plans.

 

The authority is a consultee for the project and narrowly voted 8-7 against supporting the application.

 

Campaigners against the stadium had staged a protest at the council's headquarters ahead of the meeting.

 

The final decision rests with Aberdeen City Council, however, who will vote in the summer.

[heartsfc_fan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-39290459

 

 

Aberdeenshire councillors object to Aberdeen FC stadium plans.

 

The authority is a consultee for the project and narrowly voted 8-7 against supporting the application.

 

Campaigners against the stadium had staged a protest at the council's headquarters ahead of the meeting.

 

The final decision rests with Aberdeen City Council, however, who will vote in the summer.

So what happens now? Do they groundshare with Inverness? :'>

[La_Leyenda]

So what happens now? Do they groundshare with Inverness? :'>

Final decision is June 21.

 

Essentially what the club have learned today is the transport and parking strategy needs improved otherwise it won't go ahead.

[kila]

Final decision is June 21.

 

Essentially what the club have learned today is the transport and parking strategy needs improved otherwise it won't go ahead.

 

Because it's too far to walk from the centre?

 

 

 

[mullen13]

Final decision is June 21.

 

Essentially what the club have learned today is the transport and parking strategy needs improved otherwise it won't go ahead.

 

A few of us have been arguing with you for months about the transport and parking! Surely you must see the issue now. A train link would change all of that but no viable solution.

[IveSeenTheLight]

So what happens now? Do they groundshare with Inverness? :'>

 

The decision is not with Aberdeenshire Council, it is with Aberdeen City Council.

Aberdeenshire are merely a consultee and it was narrowly defeated 8-7.

[stranraer-jambo]

Final decision is June 21.

 

Essentially what the club have learned today is the transport and parking strategy needs improved otherwise it won't go ahead.

 

I see there was a protest outside Council HQ before the vote took place. Do you know if the feeling against the development is significant or just a small group? Also, what is their main gripe(s) and do you know if they will they be resolved with improved transport and parking strategies?

 

I recall the transport strategy was discussed on here and it did appear to be somewhat weak (number/times of buses etc). What can be improved to address this issue, at what cost (who pays) and how practical/realistic will they be?

 

Genuine questions, not a dig.

[La_Leyenda]

A few of us have been arguing with you for months about the transport and parking! Surely you must see the issue now. A train link would change all of that but no viable solution.

What I've generally argued is, and you allude to it in your post, is that this shouldn't be judged on what it'll be like in day one of the stadium but the potential for that area.

 

At the beginning it'll be shuttle buses and cars, but in future it could be as you say rail or tram links. There are loads of out of town stadiums in Europe that all bring in huge crowds without problems. I don't know how much work Aberdeen have done actually speaking to these clubs and seeing how they do it.

 

There's not much more Aberdeen can do at the moment as they clearly can't build their own train station, so really all they can do is increase the number of shuttle buses they have planned, create their own park and ride sites specifically for football traffic, or (and I don't think they would be allowed to do this anyway) move the training pitches to another site and use all the spare space at Kingsford for parking, which would add a fair few thousand onto it and ease the pressure on parking in nearby Westhill and Kingswells.

 

My hunch is that this sadly will be rejected. If it is then I don't know what we'll do - possibly just build the training facilities at Kingsford and go back to the original plan of building the stadium at Loirston, where the traffic and parking would be much, much worse than Kingsford, but they are at least considering building a train station nearby.

[La_Leyenda]

I see there was a protest outside Council HQ before the vote took place. Do you know if the feeling against the development is significant or just a small group? Also, what is their main gripe(s) and do you know if they will they be resolved with improved transport and parking strategies?

 

I recall the transport strategy was discussed on here and it did appear to be somewhat weak (number/times of buses etc). What can be improved to address this issue, at what cost (who pays) and how practical/realistic will they be?

 

Genuine questions, not a dig.

Photos of the protest showed about 10 pensioners holding a big flag.

 

The no camp have been making big claims like "90% of Westhill is against it" which is not the case at all and being a former resident there most people I speak to are in favour of it.

[kila]

What I've generally argued is, and you allude to it in your post, is that this shouldn't be judged on what it'll be like in day one of the stadium but the potential for that area.

 

I admire your optimism but taking a football stadium out of the city and hoping for the best that the infrastructure falls into place sounds too risky.

 

If the proposed site had all the transport infrastructure there, then it'd be a no brainer.

 

So much risk involved in this project, and any delays on the transport side mean you end up with a ground that is largely inaccessible.

[mullen13]

As an away fan, I am not interested in more travel after my train journey and will only travel by bus if it cuts out the journey time drastically. Train station or GTFO for me. Your average local Dons fan probably feels the same.

 

This stadium could damage them irreparably by putting them further into debt and losing even more fans. 

[MacDonald Jardine]

I don't particularly get that bit either, they seem decent enough guys. (a tad delusional at times, but decent enough)

They're one of our main rivals so it isn't that surprising.

The regular Aberdeen posters do seem decent to be fair, and I hate Aberdeen more than most.

 

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[MacDonald Jardine]

500 Aberdeen fans in the central belt is a good one [emoji38]

 

Five hundred hahaha, that's brilliant!!!

You think it's too low?

There's easily that number.

 

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[La_Leyenda]

As an away fan, I am not interested in more travel after my train journey and will only travel by bus if it cuts out the journey time drastically. Train station or GTFO for me. Your average local Dons fan probably feels the same.

 

This stadium could damage them irreparably by putting them further into debt and losing even more fans.

It probably would cut your journey if you come by train at the moment.

 

Just now I imagine you get the train into Aberdeen then it's a 20-25 minute walk to Pittodrie.

 

You could get off at Stonehaven (saving time) and get the shuttle bus from there which would likely take 10-15 mins considering it'd be on the bypass). Could even get a pint in before getting on the bus.

 

Gent generally use a shuttle bus system to ferry fans to their new stadium (though they do have a tram stop too that's a 15 minute walk away).

 

As George Yule said, there are cities up and down the country who manage to ferry 50,000 - 70,000 people to games every week. It's a sad state of affairs if the city of Aberdeen can't manage to get around 13,000 people to a game every second week.

[MacDonald Jardine]

What I've generally argued is, and you allude to it in your post, is that this shouldn't be judged on what it'll be like in day one of the stadium but the potential for that area.

 

At the beginning it'll be shuttle buses and cars, but in future it could be as you say rail or tram links. There are loads of out of town stadiums in Europe that all bring in huge crowds without problems. I don't know how much work Aberdeen have done actually speaking to these clubs and seeing how they do it.

 

There's not much more Aberdeen can do at the moment as they clearly can't build their own train station, so really all they can do is increase the number of shuttle buses they have planned, create their own park and ride sites specifically for football traffic, or (and I don't think they would be allowed to do this anyway) move the training pitches to another site and use all the spare space at Kingsford for parking, which would add a fair few thousand onto it and ease the pressure on parking in nearby Westhill and Kingswells.

 

My hunch is that this sadly will be rejected. If it is then I don't know what we'll do - possibly just build the training facilities at Kingsford and go back to the original plan of building the stadium at Loirston, where the traffic and parking would be much, much worse than Kingsford, but they are at least considering building a train station nearby.

The difference though is other countries seem to have governments who value public transport.

I suspect the chances of a rail station being built is slim to nil.

Trams are even less likely.

 

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[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

_{Photos of the protest showed about 10 pensioners holding a big flag.}

 

The no camp have been making big claims like "90% of Westhill is against it" which is not the case at all and being a former resident there most people I speak to are in favour of it.

 

_{I work out there, I have found it to be roughly even, who wants it who doesn't. I have my fingers crossed it goes ahead. Pittodrie has never been the same since the RDS went up. Interestingly the council has bottled it and left a decision post election, to be fair, probably politically quite wise}

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

The difference though is other countries seem to have governments who value public transport.

I suspect the chances of a rail station being built is slim to nil.

Trams are even less likely.

 

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They are talking about more rail stations up here, but since there is no line out this way, chances of me riding the Gold Cup winner tomorrow are better

[cheetah]

Build it and they will come

 

 

 

 

On 500 double decker busses

 

shitty little club

[Unknown user]

The difference though is other countries seem to have governments who value public transport.

I suspect the chances of a rail station being built is slim to nil.

Trams are even less likely.

 

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I don't think it's anything to do with valuing public transport. I can't think of any club that's built a new stadium of 20k or less, a few miles out of town, and then had the authorities spend millions building them a train link, it's ridiculous to expect. It would cost many millions to lay track and build a station, they're dreaming.

[MacDonald Jardine]

I don't think it's anything to do with valuing public transport. I can't think of any club that's built a new stadium of 20k or less, a few miles out of town, and then had the authorities spend millions building them a train link, it's ridiculous to expect. It would cost many millions to lay track and build a station, they're dreaming.

Other countries would see the benefits of having good transport links to what will be a major visitor destination.

 

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[La_Leyenda]

I don't think it's anything to do with valuing public transport. I can't think of any club that's built a new stadium of 20k or less, a few miles out of town, and then had the authorities spend millions building them a train link, it's ridiculous to expect. It would cost many millions to lay track and build a station, they're dreaming.

But it's not just the stadium there. There's the Prime four business site there at the moment, there's the shopping complex currently being considered by the council, there's the business in Westhill, the town of Westhill with around 12,000 residents, the town of Kingswells and the new houses being built at Countesswells.

 

Personally, although the majority of the support were against it, I was happy enough with Loirston where the train line runs past the stadium and plans were/are in place to rebuild Cove station. But I do accept the traffic and parking would have been a nightmare.

 

If I was making a prediction, Kingsford will be rejected and we'll be back to Loirston.

[August Landmesser]

It's a sad state of affairs if the city of Aberdeen can't manage to get around 13,000 people to a game every second week.

tbf, the football club of Aberdeen struggle to do that just now...

[Pants Shaton]

A move to the farmyard stadium will finally kill off this silly wee club.

[Dunks]

The no camp have been making big claims like "90% of Westhill is against it" which is not the case at all and being a former resident there most people I speak to are in favour of it.

 

Tbf, their claims are based on objections/support lodged against the application: http://www.nokingsfordstadium.org.uk/2017/03/10/afc-dont-want-people-to-know-the-true-statistics-objections-on-acc-site/

 

FWIW - I support the proposals.

[La_Leyenda]

Tbf, their claims are based on objections/support lodged against the application: http://www.nokingsfordstadium.org.uk/2017/03/10/afc-dont-want-people-to-know-the-true-statistics-objections-on-acc-site/

 

FWIW - I support the proposals.

A lot of them objections were people being stopped in the street, asked what their main concerns over the stadium would be with the stadium, then being ticked off on a form, then the person was asked for their name and address. These were then photocopied and submitted to the council website as an objection on that person's behalf.

 

Even so, 3,000 objections isn't 90% of Westhill.

[Buffalo Bill]

Just to suggest some perspective, on our own stadium thread, there's much gnashing of teeth over the slight change in the fa?ade of the new stand whereas Aberdeen are faced with trying to leave a freezing cold, soulless, yet centrally located ground to move miles out of town to a stadium that may or may not be built in about four years time.  

[BangkokHearts]

A move to the farmyard stadium will finally kill off this silly wee club.

 

Their descent into diddyness is almost complete. 

[151]

With their midweek crowds of 8000 they are falling behind hibs making them no5 in the crowd issue.

The mythical 5000 strong away following every week though. Impressive

 

****ing ramjets man, honestly got no time for Aberdeen and their pathetic support for a one team city.

[Mikey1874]

Final decision is June 21.

 

Essentially what the club have learned today is the transport and parking strategy needs improved otherwise it won't go ahead.

What Hearts fans were saying

 

Dons fan on here said it was okay but it is a tricky balance

[MacDonald Jardine]

The mythical 5000 strong away following every week though. Impressive

 

******* ramjets man, honestly got no time for Aberdeen and their pathetic support for a one team city.

It's not mythical though.

Much as I dislike them, their away support is impressive.

 

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[Mikey1874]

Just to suggest some perspective, on our own stadium thread, there's much gnashing of teeth over the slight change in the fa?ade of the new stand whereas Aberdeen are faced with trying to leave a freezing cold, soulless, yet centrally located ground to move miles out of town to a stadium that may or may not be built in about four years time.

Yeah

 

Not so long ago Aberdeen were getting a 30,000 stadium as part of Euro 2008 bid.

 

Hope they find something. Finances opaque and uncertain just now too.

[WhenTheHeartsWentUp]

Few questions I've always had about this, not having a go but if the sheep fans on here could answer them I'd appreciate it:
 

1) Why is Pittodrie "unfit for purpose"?

 

2) If Pittodrie is "unfit for purpose", why can't Aberdeen stay there and rennovate it (like we have with our stand)?

 

3) Why not just build some high quality, brand new training facilities out in Kingsford instead?

 

4) Why are most Aberdeen fans on board with leaving their spiritual home to a place about 10 miles outside the city?