Pittodrie "Unfit for Purpose"

[Bad Religion]

Its clearly better than what you have at the moment however its bang average. Good luck with getting planning permission and raising the funds. Glad its yours and not ours.

[Laurie]

It's a big post so just pit in my replies below

 

 

Thanks for the response ISTL, I assumed there would be some kind of eating and drinking facilities incorporated at the stadium, which as I said can alleviate some of the issues around fans looking for amenities in the surrounding areas. I don't think it's ever quite the same as having traditional bars up and down the streets around a ground but we both know that this was never the case at Pittodrie anyway and for Aberdeen it just isn't feasible to have such a location.

 

I know the average attendances were never as low as 6/7k but there were a few matches, against "less glamorous" sides and sometimes midweek, where it dropped to that figure, which I recall was a massive concern at the time. Even averages of 9k are pretty woeful for a club the size of Aberdeen, however that was a particularly dismal spell of form. I honestly don't know if the new ground will attract or put off fans on the whole, supporters are often pretty fickle so it'll probably be dictated by form - if the team is doing as well as they have been in the last 2/3 years then I'm sure it will have a healthy crowd most weeks. The worry for Aberdeen is what happens if there is every another downturn in fortunes. After the troubles we had at Hearts there seems to be a solidarity among the fans that even if things get bad they'll still turn up at Tynecastle, even if it is to mump and moan! At Aberdeen there has been more of a tendency to stay away when the chips are down (maybe that won't be the case next time). But I guess that issue would be there whether you're at Pittodrie or elsewhere, just wondered if the stadium location may then be used as another excuse if things weren't going well. 

[Ray Gin]

Looks cracking to be fair.

 

Pish location though.

[IveSeenTheLight]

Thanks for the response ISTL, I assumed there would be some kind of eating and drinking facilities incorporated at the stadium, which as I said can alleviate some of the issues around fans looking for amenities in the surrounding areas. I don't think it's ever quite the same as having traditional bars up and down the streets around a ground but we both know that this was never the case at Pittodrie anyway and for Aberdeen it just isn't feasible to have such a location.

 

I know the average attendances were never as low as 6/7k but there were a few matches, against "less glamorous" sides and sometimes midweek, where it dropped to that figure, which I recall was a massive concern at the time. Even averages of 9k are pretty woeful for a club the size of Aberdeen, however that was a particularly dismal spell of form. I honestly don't know if the new ground will attract or put off fans on the whole, supporters are often pretty fickle so it'll probably be dictated by form - if the team is doing as well as they have been in the last 2/3 years then I'm sure it will have a healthy crowd most weeks. The worry for Aberdeen is what happens if there is every another downturn in fortunes. After the troubles we had at Hearts there seems to be a solidarity among the fans that even if things get bad they'll still turn up at Tynecastle, even if it is to mump and moan! At Aberdeen there has been more of a tendency to stay away when the chips are down (maybe that won't be the case next time). But I guess that issue would be there whether you're at Pittodrie or elsewhere, just wondered if the stadium location may then be used as another excuse if things weren't going well.

 

It's true that Aberdeen has always had a migratory population. So you get die hard Aberdeen fans, but also others who support the team but not fully immersed.

We're also hit with an economic downturn, meaning that it can be a stretch for a lot of fans. The club has done well on this front offering ST's at 0% over 6 months.

Our attendances have never been high, even in our glory years. We're pushing on for 11k ST's this year which I think will be the most we've had.

 

So whilst the perception is one club in a big city, it's a smaller percentage that are into football.

The club is working hard with the youngsters, I'm certainly seeing more Aberdeen supporting kids than in the past, which hopefully will impact the crowds of the future

[Ray Gin]

On the "soulless" thing, I'll ask the same question I've asked numerous posters and have yet to receive a suitable answer. What makes it soulless? If built, and for a big game has 20,000 people in it, is it somehow going to be quieter than Pittodrie?

 

It's an absolute nonsense term that gets thrown at pretty much any modern stadium design. It means nothing.

[Hagar the Horrible]

The stadium looks enclosed. There will be seats in the corners, but I also see the corners as used for the Supporters Bar, Hospitality, Police Control Centre and possibly the Red Cafe.

Steal an Man Utd idea  The Red Cafe, Still thats affordable hospitality.  West Ham are filling their stadium moving from East Ham, further west.  Not sure you hear the great bell at Bow from their new Olympic stadium, its lost a bit of soul.  but more fans and they already have a transport infrastructure.    Falkirk @ Westfield is not the same as Brockville but its a shame the whole ground cannot be completed, because of Grangemouth, They should have built it slightly further away, or move grangemouth?

 

You have to do a survey and find a like for like scenario,  its ok for away fans, as buses can just turn up, but if there is nothing in the surrounding area for 20million sheep and no way just to meander to the stadium, then its a lot of hanging about pre and post match.

 

Still it looks like the sheep will have loads more European memories to make at Tynecastle,  That will make it easier for fans from Ulbonia and Whogivesafistan to turn up and knock them out of the qualifying round.

[IveSeenTheLight]

Steal an Man Utd idea The Red Cafe, Still thats affordable hospitality.

Stealing ideas? Surely it's best not to try and reinvent the wheel each time.

Look around, get inspiration, find what's suits your needs and then implement.

[Chester™]

 

 

But at this point, while it's unlikely, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Edinburgh City, playing in an absolute mess of a stadium but tucked into the city, may pass Livingston in the league tables.

Must say, thats a bit harsh on Ainslie Park...

[Torry Jambo]

At least at Pittodrie,If It's a cold winter night and a midweek fixture against Partick/Hamilton/Killie,you can drink In nearbye Pubs and Clubs and have a short walk to the game,or If In the city centre,catch a bus and be at Pittodrie In 10 minutes.These facilities shall not be available at Kingsford,which takes something away from the match/social experience.

 

Would also like to know,If anything Is In place,to take away fans travelling by Train to the new Stadium ? If not,this may put some supporters of travelling clubs off from attending.I know the Aberdeen support are the priority In all this but surely away fans should also be taken Into consideration.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Stealing ideas? Surely it's best not to try and reinvent the wheel each time.

Look around, get inspiration, find what's suits your needs and then implement.

It is a good idea,  Casual Smart Hospitality and affordable, plus gives away fans a pub to go to before and after the game while the club makes money

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Total desperation from Milne last night on the telly. Near tears. Perhaps for Aberdeens sake he should take a step back. I suspect Kingswells was rejected on the basis it was him milking and this is being seen the same way.

 

One great thing about Aberdeen, if anyone comes up with a great philanthropic futuristic idea, it will be shot down

 

Oh I love my home

[Strachsuit]

Well, taking it point by point.

 

Firstly, this "stadium in the heart of the community", it seems to be a very British thing. On the continent they don't think twice about an out of town stadium. Most new stadiums are away from their city centre, look at the Germans as a glaring example. And no-one describes German grounds as soulless.

 

Hearts (and Hibs) being able to rebuild their current stadiums is a bonus for fans, but it's not essential. I don't know if you saw it but Ann Budge (and Peter Lawwell & Ross County's chairman) all wrote letters that have been recently added to the stadium application. Budge says, on the use of Herriot-watt university facilities rather than having the training ground right next to the stadium like Aberdeen are planning: "I see this as a major disadvantage for the club, for the players, for the supporters and indeed for the local community and had we had any alternative, we would definitely have gone for co-location."

 

Budge continues: "When I took over at Hearts there was a definite "them and us" culture between staff located at different sites, which added enormously to the difficulties of efficiently running the business."

 

She then explains how the team train once a week at Tynecastle in a bid to address this issue, but adds "there are cost implications and pitch implications in this arrangement. Clearly, we also lose out on the many cost efficiencies that would come from running a one-site operation.

 

"In short, I would strongly recommend that you attempt to co-locate all of your facilities when you embark on your stadium redevelopment."

 

That's from your own chairman. You can read the letter in full on the link below, go to documents, and it's the fourth one down, and then it's near the bottom, page 28.

 

https://publicaccess.aberdeencity.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=OJMF3EBZIED00

 

That's what Aberdeen are determined to do. They wanted to do it at Loirston which is more in the city than Kingsford, but the labour council messed them about, giving them permission, then taking away land which they needed, announcing the building of other stuff there and making it completely unworkable. The club are running out of places to go, and if the council turn this down then plan b is unlikely to be to redevelop Pittodrie, it's probably to move to Aberdeenshire and out of the city boundary altogether.

 

As for Livingston, that's an 8,700 capacity ground which was far too big for them from the start. If Aberdeen were building a 30,000 capacity stadium I would have concerns, but we've had three home games this season with crowds of 17,067 (Siroki Brijeg), 20,085 (Apollon Limassol), and 15,165 (Hamilton) - with barely any away fans at any, in a run down stadium, against opponents no-one would describe as glamorous. I'm fairly sure in a cracking new stadium we can get 20,000 in it and get the place jumping for the big games against Rangers, Celtic and Hibs

 

Firstly, just because they don't do it on the continent doesn't make it right! I love the fact that British football embraces the game being a huge part of a community. Gorgie would suffer massively without us. Secondly, German clubs have the luxury of public transport providing free bus shuttles to their out-of-town grounds - something that won't be happening in Scotland any time soon. Finally, yes, some of them are absolutely soulless. I was at an Essen game in April and the ground is almost identical to a St Mirren Park or Almondvale. Totally soulless lego stadia. 

[Unknown user]

At least at Pittodrie,If It's a cold winter night and a midweek fixture against Partick/Hamilton/Killie,you can drink In nearbye Pubs and Clubs and have a short walk to the game,or If In the city centre,catch a bus and be at Pittodrie In 10 minutes.These facilities shall not be available at Kingsford,which takes something away from the match/social experience.

 

Would also like to know,If anything Is In place,to take away fans travelling by Train to the new Stadium ? If not,this may put some supporters of travelling clubs off from attending.I know the Aberdeen support are the priority In all this but surely away fans should also be taken Into consideration.

Transport is the big issue, in the heart of a cold January night with a gale blowing off the north sea, how many are going to want to stand at bus stops outside a stadium in the middle of nowhere at the end of a game?

I honestly think a stadium that far out of town will spell the beginning of the end for Aberdeen, they're not getting train links, the other public transport options need to start from scratch (no one's said who's paying for them), and the novelty will soon be eroded by the reality. Imo.

[Laurie]

West Ham are filling their stadium moving from East Ham, further west.  Not sure you hear the great bell at Bow from their new Olympic stadium, its lost a bit of soul.  but more fans and they already have a transport infrastructure.   

 

The Olympic Stadium is awful, IMO, for football. I visited it earlier this year for the FA Cup match between West Ham and Man City on a Friday night. You go out there by train to a fairly new shopping centre, which is the only place you can go to get a drink before entering the ground. So it was a case of milling around with evening shoppers and trying, for us unsuccessfully, to squeeze into one of the chain bars/restaurants for a drink. 

 

You then have to walk up a dual carriageway, which is closed to traffic, to the ground - just crowds of people shuffling up a motorway towards a ground with almost nothing around it at all. Yes there were food and drink kiosks inside and to be fair to the West Ham fans they tried their best to make the atmosphere decent early on (the fact they were quickly being torn to shreds by City soon ended that) but there was just something about the whole experience that was, sorry to use the word again, "soulless". No character to the stadium or location at all. 

 

Maybe I'm just a romanticist as well as a traditionalist... 

[Strachsuit]

Transport is the big issue, in the heart of a cold January night with a gale blowing off the north sea, how many are going to want to stand at bus stops outside a stadium in the middle of nowhere at the end of a game?

I honestly think a stadium that far out of town will spell the beginning of the end for Aberdeen, they're not getting train links, the other public transport options need to start from scratch (no one's said who's paying for them), and the novelty will soon be eroded by the reality. Imo.

Yup, agree with this. How much would it cost the club to put buses on for supporters? Pass the cost onto ST holders etc? Disaster waiting to happen.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Location becomes key when performance becomes poor.

 

I think Aberdeen are living in a bit of cloud cuckoo land if they think the current level of success is going to be sustainable. They could hold a top 2 position for a couple more years yes, even a top 4 position for 10 years. But there will still be a problem inevitably somewhere down the line.

 

Unless they fill that place with 50000 people and get around 1 million customers globally, they are deluding themselves.

 

As things stand, we have 2 giants in this country. One has been crippled but it will undoubtedly find its feet sometime in the next decade.

 

Then we have the next tier of 3 Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs are proving for the moment at least, there is indeed some sort of fanbase. For these 3 success is critical, or people will drift.

 

Hearts and Hibs are more community based clubs than Aberdeen.

 

But before the Aberdeen guys shoot me down, what I see wandering around Tescos or taking my kids places, are Aberdeen shirts everywhere. This wasn't the case even 2 years ago, so Aberdeen are on an upward curve with community support.

 

The problem is sustaining it. And that is where the out of town location at some point, though perhaps not immediately will backfire.

 

Pittodrie should really be at least 75% full most weeks at the moment. If you cant do it now, then the people up here who are either too lazy, apathetic or simply prefer English football (I know loads of these) are not going to trek out to Westhill to watch a team with perhaps a 50% or less win record.

[Big D]

Maybe been covered as I havent read full thread. Why arent Aberdeen going for the exhibition centre site that is being vacated? Its a couple of miles north of Pitoddrie but more accessible than Kingswells. I suspect I know the answer and the Kingswells owner is well known to Milne.  

[Homme]

Nice looking stadium.

 

Not a good location but I never travel up to Aberdeen anyway so I don't mind.

[Dalstonjambo]

The Olympic Stadium is awful, IMO, for football. I visited it earlier this year for the FA Cup match between West Ham and Man City on a Friday night. You go out there by train to a fairly new shopping centre, which is the only place you can go to get a drink before entering the ground. So it was a case of milling around with evening shoppers and trying, for us unsuccessfully, to squeeze into one of the chain bars/restaurants for a drink. 

 

You then have to walk up a dual carriageway, which is closed to traffic, to the ground - just crowds of people shuffling up a motorway towards a ground with almost nothing around it at all. Yes there were food and drink kiosks inside and to be fair to the West Ham fans they tried their best to make the atmosphere decent early on (the fact they were quickly being torn to shreds by City soon ended that) but there was just something about the whole experience that was, sorry to use the word again, "soulless". No character to the stadium or location at all. 

 

Maybe I'm just a romanticist as well as a traditionalist... 

 

If you go again, get off the train at Hackney Wick. Few decent pubs round there and you avoid most of the crowds and horrible chain bars. 

 

 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Maybe been covered as I havent read full thread. Why arent Aberdeen going for the exhibition centre site that is being vacated? Its a couple of miles north of Pitoddrie but more accessible than Kingswells. I suspect I know the answer and the Kingswells owner is well known to Milne.  

I doubt that would be viable. Royal Aberdeen Golf Club runs that strip of land behind the Old Exhibition. Not enough acres

[TexasAndy]

The big difference is that Pieman wasn't just trying to move Hearts out of Tynecastle he wanted to sell our main asset and rent Murrayfield.  I reckon we would be at rest beside Third Lanark now had that gone ahead.  

[La_Leyenda]

An indoor pitch is probably something which should be on the plan as Bill says, but it could certainly be added on later.

 

I think the capacity is too low though - I think it should be 25,000 - 30,000 for a out of town new build like this.

An indoor pitch is planned. I don't know why it's not in the plans yet, but the club have confirmed it's something they'll be adding.

[La_Leyenda]

Aberdeens problem is that they don't have to build just a stadium and training complex, they also have to put a transport infrastructure in place for thousands of people that will be used twenty times a year.

Are there a hundred buses just kicking about doing nothing on a Saturday or are they expecting bus companies to spend literally millions and have them sitting about for 345 days a year?

 

As it stands it's doomed to failure imo

They have agreements with bus companies (it's in the stadium application) to hire 103 buses on match days, which they say is enough to transport 5,700 to games from the city centre and various park and rides.

 

In addition, there are the normal bus routes that go past the stadium anyway and the bus company that runs these buses have said they'll likely increase the frequency of these services on match day.

 

I think they could go further though. The only link-up they have is with Aberdeen train station, but once the AWPR is built then Dyce and Stonehaven train stations would be 20 mins away. Surprised they haven't had the foresight to run buses direct to these stations and put fans straight on a football special.

 

By car the stadium is far easier to get to than Pittodrie and the traffic will disperse a lot quicker than Pittodrie too. But that's not altogether a good thing, as they're meant to be convincing the council that people will take public transport rather than increasing car use.

[La_Leyenda]

Its clearly better than what you have at the moment however its bang average. Good luck with getting planning permission and raising the funds. Glad its yours and not ours.

Out of interest, how is it average and if you were the architect how would you make it better?

[Gizmo]

Continental style Stadia out in the countryside with plazas work in warmer climates. Here, as soon as it rains you are standing exposed to the elements hoping you can squeeze onto the next bus or you spend an hour sitting in your car frustrated at how long it takes for the car park to empty.

Looks a pretty nice design in fairness but I wouldn't fancy the trek in the winter in all honesty. 

[2205ian]

Out of interest, how is it average and if you were the architect how would you make it better?

Recommend you go to our "new main stand" thread if you are looking for an architect's advice

[Ray Gin]

It's only 'bang average' because it isn't ours.

[Ray Gin]

Recommend you go to our "new main stand" thread if you are looking for an architect's advice

It looks better than our new main stand, let's be honest.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

They have agreements with bus companies (it's in the stadium application) to hire 103 buses on match days, which they say is enough to transport 5,700 to games from the city centre and various park and rides.

 

In addition, there are the normal bus routes that go past the stadium anyway and the bus company that runs these buses have said they'll likely increase the frequency of these services on match day.

 

I think they could go further though. The only link-up they have is with Aberdeen train station, but once the AWPR is built then Dyce and Stonehaven train stations would be 20 mins away. Surprised they haven't had the foresight to run buses direct to these stations and put fans straight on a football special.

 

By car the stadium is far easier to get to than Pittodrie and the traffic will disperse a lot quicker than Pittodrie too. But that's not altogether a good thing, as they're meant to be convincing the council that people will take public transport rather than increasing car use.

Its alright putting it on but its time isnt it. When you're winning a sacrifice worth making but when you're not it could bomb.

[the general]

They have agreements with bus companies (it's in the stadium application) to hire 103 buses on match days, which they say is enough to transport 5,700 to games from the city centre and various park and rides.

 

In addition, there are the normal bus routes that go past the stadium anyway and the bus company that runs these buses have said they'll likely increase the frequency of these services on match day.

 

I think they could go further though. The only link-up they have is with Aberdeen train station, but once the AWPR is built then Dyce and Stonehaven train stations would be 20 mins away. Surprised they haven't had the foresight to run buses direct to these stations and put fans straight on a football special.

 

By car the stadium is far easier to get to than Pittodrie and the traffic will disperse a lot quicker than Pittodrie too. But that's not altogether a good thing, as they're meant to be convincing the council that people will take public transport rather than increasing car use.

 

 

that sounds nice and simple but in practice there will probably be big delays and queues for transport at the peak times

[La_Leyenda]

Thanks for the response ISTL, I assumed there would be some kind of eating and drinking facilities incorporated at the stadium, which as I said can alleviate some of the issues around fans looking for amenities in the surrounding areas. I don't think it's ever quite the same as having traditional bars up and down the streets around a ground but we both know that this was never the case at Pittodrie anyway and for Aberdeen it just isn't feasible to have such a location.

 

I know the average attendances were never as low as 6/7k but there were a few matches, against "less glamorous" sides and sometimes midweek, where it dropped to that figure, which I recall was a massive concern at the time. Even averages of 9k are pretty woeful for a club the size of Aberdeen, however that was a particularly dismal spell of form. I honestly don't know if the new ground will attract or put off fans on the whole, supporters are often pretty fickle so it'll probably be dictated by form - if the team is doing as well as they have been in the last 2/3 years then I'm sure it will have a healthy crowd most weeks. The worry for Aberdeen is what happens if there is every another downturn in fortunes. After the troubles we had at Hearts there seems to be a solidarity among the fans that even if things get bad they'll still turn up at Tynecastle, even if it is to mump and moan! At Aberdeen there has been more of a tendency to stay away when the chips are down (maybe that won't be the case next time). But I guess that issue would be there whether you're at Pittodrie or elsewhere, just wondered if the stadium location may then be used as another excuse if things weren't going well.

It's a bit of a myth that Hearts fans turn up when the team is poor and Aberdeen's don't. The swell in Hearts numbers in recent years wasn't because the team was poor and needed support, it was because the club was close to going bust. Likewise, in 94/95 when Aberdeen were on the brink of relegation we were playing to full houses and filling the away ends round the country as the support rallied.

 

What Aberdeen haven't done in recent years is increased the crowds as much despite the on-field success. The downturn in the oil industry is a big part of that, but I believe it's also the stadium.

 

It may seem strange for a 20,000 capacity stadium, but after sales reach 12,000 it can be difficult to find a good seat. The RD lower and the middle of the south are generally sold out. The Merkland is the family stand but takes up a large block of seats - the club tried moving them to free up those seats but found it difficult to place them elsewhere. The main stand is expensive yet the facilities and comfort poor. So when you're trying to pick where you're going to sit, your choice is the RD upper which, due to the change in pitch layout since it was built, means you can't actually see the goal line at that side no matter where you're sitting. Or you can buy for the uncovered section of the south stand and get soaked. That's a good 5,000-6,000 seats that the club find difficult to sell because no-one really wants them (but they still stick a ?26 price tag on them regardless).

 

I don't think you have that same problem at Tynecastle or Easter Road, and we won't have that problem in the new stadium either.

 

The choice is a 20 minute shuttle bus to a cracking stadium, or a short walk to a miserable, crumbling stadium.

[Hagar the Horrible]

It looks better than our new main stand, let's be honest.

yes it does, but then again so did Vlads version, what will be built is what is affordable and it wont look anything like that in reality

[the general]

The Olympic Stadium is awful, IMO, for football. I visited it earlier this year for the FA Cup match between West Ham and Man City on a Friday night. You go out there by train to a fairly new shopping centre, which is the only place you can go to get a drink before entering the ground. So it was a case of milling around with evening shoppers and trying, for us unsuccessfully, to squeeze into one of the chain bars/restaurants for a drink. 

 

You then have to walk up a dual carriageway, which is closed to traffic, to the ground - just crowds of people shuffling up a motorway towards a ground with almost nothing around it at all. Yes there were food and drink kiosks inside and to be fair to the West Ham fans they tried their best to make the atmosphere decent early on (the fact they were quickly being torn to shreds by City soon ended that) but there was just something about the whole experience that was, sorry to use the word again, "soulless". No character to the stadium or location at all. 

 

Maybe I'm just a romanticist as well as a traditionalist... 

 

I think the DLR takes you a bit closer to the ground but still not ideal

[La_Leyenda]

Steal an Man Utd idea The Red Cafe, Still thats affordable hospitality. West Ham are filling their stadium moving from East Ham, further west. Not sure you hear the great bell at Bow from their new Olympic stadium, its lost a bit of soul. but more fans and they already have a transport infrastructure. Falkirk @ Westfield is not the same as Brockville but its a shame the whole ground cannot be completed, because of Grangemouth, They should have built it slightly further away, or move grangemouth?

 

You have to do a survey and find a like for like scenario, its ok for away fans, as buses can just turn up, but if there is nothing in the surrounding area for 20million sheep and no way just to meander to the stadium, then its a lot of hanging about pre and post match.

 

Still it looks like the sheep will have loads more European memories to make at Tynecastle, That will make it easier for fans from Ulbonia and Whogivesafistan to turn up and knock them out of the qualifying round.

I'm sure Falkirk can complete their stadium if they want, it's just not cost effective at the moment as they dont currently need the extra capacity and would struggle to make the money back.

 

I've seen full plans for it which don't just include a fourth stand, but have all the corners filled in. Would actually make for a cracking stadium. But they need to be an established top flight club before it makes sense.

[La_Leyenda]

At least at Pittodrie,If It's a cold winter night and a midweek fixture against Partick/Hamilton/Killie,you can drink In nearbye Pubs and Clubs and have a short walk to the game,or If In the city centre,catch a bus and be at Pittodrie In 10 minutes.These facilities shall not be available at Kingsford,which takes something away from the match/social experience.

It'll have a supporters bar and fanzone, though the success of the latter depends on the weather. I think the hope is that one day clubs will be allowed to sell alchohol in grounds, though old firm fans are doing their best to make that unlikely.

 

Contrary to myth it's not the outback people would have you believe, having grown up in that area. There are pubs within walking distance, while there is currently planning permission for a retail unit close by with restaurants and possibly bars planned.

 

Would also like to know,If anything Is In place,to take away fans travelling by Train to the new Stadium ? If not,this may put some supporters of travelling clubs off from attending.I know the Aberdeen support are the priority In all this but surely away fans should also be taken Into consideration.

There are shuttle buses planned from the train station, which is fine getting to the stadium as in light traffic will take around 20 mins, but maybe not so much after the game when it's heavy traffic.

 

Like I said in a previous post, the AWPR will link the stadium directly to Dyce and Stonehaven stations. Even in heavy traffic Stonehaven would be a quicker journey than trying to get back to the city centre. As someone who lives in Glasgow I hope they'll have a link up with these stations to make it quicker to get back south. Would make sense.

[La_Leyenda]

Total desperation from Milne last night on the telly. Near tears. Perhaps for Aberdeens sake he should take a step back. I suspect Kingswells was rejected on the basis it was him milking and this is being seen the same way.

 

One great thing about Aberdeen, if anyone comes up with a great philanthropic futuristic idea, it will be shot down

 

Oh I love my home

Kingswells, or more specifically Bellfield, wasn't turned down. It was on the premise that Aberdeen got Euro 2008, mainly because a lot of the money was coming from the government. I'm glad it was turned down - was to be a 30,000 white elephant being knocked up quickly and on the cheap just to host a two to three group games.

 

Loirston was also granted planning permission. They could still build a stadium there. But due to the council brainfart they don't have much room for parking, the access roads that they need, or the training facility.

[Buffalo Bill]

Out of interest, how is it average and if you were the architect how would you make it better?

 

I don't think this (proposed) new stadium is average. It will be well above average...just the location is the main topic for debate.

 

There are two aspects to this stadium that differ from Tynecastle. One is rather obvious: Tynecastle is the continued, settled and much loved home of HMFC, 131 years of being in the heart of our community, surrounded by proper boozers and good transport links...and no parking!

 

The other is more subtle. Tynecastle's stands are very steep, and very close to the pitch, creating a theatre-style ground that makes it very raw and atmospheric when things gets going. Aberdeen's proposed new ground will be a wraparound, which is fine, and the pitch will be longer but with much greater run-off areas behind each goal and along the touchlines; the upshot being that it will compromise the height and magnitude of the stands, something that might not mean much to you, but is something that we hold dear at Tynecastle because we have the opposite. 

 

As I said, there's no parking at Tynecastle (which doesn't affect my match day 'experience' anyway), and our pitch falls shy of the requested UEFA guidelines. But Tynecastle is going to be magnificent from now on in.

 

In saying all that, I hope this new stadium goes ahead and I wish you well. But in all honesty, I'm glad it's happening to you and not us.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Middlesbrough are a good example of out of town attendance.

 

Watch how their stadium evacuates in meh times.

 

You can argue the same for in town teams of course but not so alarmingly.

 

Im in favour of the stadium btw.

 

But it never ceases to amaze me how Scottish people reject innovation

[Francis Albert]

Surely the crucial question is --- will their curtain wall be bigger than ours?

[norrie1952]

For what it's worth my son and daughter in law ,and my lovely grandchildren live in Westhill .Its about 25mins from union street .overnight sorted for me.Oh no ale houses.

[La_Leyenda]

Maybe been covered as I havent read full thread. Why arent Aberdeen going for the exhibition centre site that is being vacated? Its a couple of miles north of Pitoddrie but more accessible than Kingswells. I suspect I know the answer and the Kingswells owner is well known to Milne.

Club explored the idea of building there. They said it wasn't big enough for a dual facility. They also said the council require a land receipt to help pay for the new exhibition centre, which I think is their way of saying it was too expensive. It's also been earmarked already for housing (I think).

 

Would be an awful location anyway. It's a nightmare to get to for gigs with just 4,000 people at them. Most of the roads leading to it are poor and don't think the AWPR will help that much, and despite being in the city it'll still need shuttle buses like Kingsford.

 

The club explored eight sites.

 

- Current AECC (too small, expensive, land earmarked for others)

 

- New AECC (no room)

 

- Bellfield (land now unavailable)

 

- Loirston (council dicked them about)

 

- Kings Links (issues over land ownership, likely to cost ?6m+ more than Kingsford, no room for dual facility, structurally difficult to build)

 

- Pittodrie (too small, need sale of Pittodrie to fund it)

 

- Calder Park (no room, Cove Rangers now building their ground there)

 

- Kingsford.

 

In addition, Aberdeenshire council offered them three alternatives should the club wish to leave the city.

 

- Balmedie (miles away, very poor transport links)

 

- Portlethen (miles away, though does have a train station and right on the A90)

 

- Blackburn (the only one that is worth considering. Same distance from city centre as Kingsford - though outside city boundary - but crucially just a 10 minute bus ride from Dyce train station or, being right next to the train line they could build their own station. Also close to new AECC so possibility to link up with that, which would provide, along with the Dyce p&r, an extra 2,000 parking spaces. Would actually be a pretty good location and a possible destination should Kingsford be rejected).

[Bazzas right boot]

Tynecastle will be better when the corner's are filled in...

 

Aberdeen' will be a cracking stadium, time will tell about the location but imo Scotland fans place too much on tradation and this includes stadium location.

 

Bigger and better clubs have moved and even groundshare to this day.

 

It will suit Aberdeen just fine.

 

I don't even care that much, but pittordrie was always freezing, even on warm days!

[Thomaso]

It looks better than our new main stand, let's be honest.

 

 

Just as a matter of interest why exactly do you think it looks better than our new stand?

 

Going by a computer generated model, their glazed fa?ade is in a very similar curtainwall system to ours - without the curve.

[Shooter McGavin]

Good looking stadium & what looks to be excellent facilities surrounding it. I've not really spent much time researching the location etc so unsure what impact that'll have on it.

[IveSeenTheLight]

Derek McInnes's speech last night at the launch.

Very complimentary of Hearts

 

https://m.facebook.com/ally.begg/posts/1750804048280305

[Pasquale for King]

The locals who live in the area seem to be against the new stadium for a number of reasons.

https://www.facebook.com/SayNoToKingsfordStadium/

[Pasquale for King]

Good looking stadium & what looks to be excellent facilities surrounding it. I've not really spent much time researching the location etc so unsure what impact that'll have on it.

https://www.facebook.com/SayNoToKingsfordStadium/

[Pasquale for King]

Alternative site near Pittodrie.

http://www.nokingsfordstadium.org.uk/2017/08/09/where-should-aberdeens-community-stadium-be/

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Derek McInnes's speech last night at the launch.

Very complimentary of Hearts

 

https://m.facebook.com/ally.begg/posts/1750804048280305

He does have a job interview on Friday of course

 

[Laurie]

It's a bit of a myth that Hearts fans turn up when the team is poor and Aberdeen's don't. The swell in Hearts numbers in recent years wasn't because the team was poor and needed support, it was because the club was close to going bust. Likewise, in 94/95 when Aberdeen were on the brink of relegation we were playing to full houses and filling the away ends round the country as the support rallied.

 

I wouldn't say it is a myth, I'm only really referencing modern times - hence why I mentioned since our recent troubles we encountered, which was in reference to admin and relegation. Since then the fans seem to have a sense of duty that they should attend Tynecastle regardless of how we're doing, hence why last season we still saw average attendances of 16,000+ (with many sell outs) despite the fact we were, relatively speaking, pretty dire for much of the campaign. And again this pre-season despite the dreadful end to the last campaign and a general feeling of uncertainty about where we were going on the pitch we are still looking at again breaking season ticket sales and outselling the likes of Aberdeen (who are a much better team) by 3,000+ (from the figures I last saw). 

 

In my time watching football Hearts have generally had a better home support than Aberdeen, although they have been a better team on the whole during my time (I missed the 80s and early 90s...) but I do realise that the recent swell was due to the financial problems. My point is just that the fans have continued with their solidarity since then and continue to turn out in numbers even when things are going badly on the field, and even though there isn't the same critical need for their support. I may be wrong but I don't believe Aberdeen would have the same reaction if things started going pear shaped again. I reckon the tendency would be to start skipping matches.