Even More SNP Nonsense

[Space Mackerel]

1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

So more powers but not Independent.

 

 

I would rather be in a political union with or socialist European chums than fat sweaty right wing Boris. 😊

[Maroon Sailor]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

3 GEs in 4 years.  Minds change and you know the games a bogey.

 

Tick Tock!!!

 

So if minds change in an Independent Scotland what then ?

 

Begging bowl to Westminster ?

[ri Alban]

11 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

 

Sturgeland 

 

 

 

Named after the head of state of the democratic Republic of Scotland.

Nice one

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

So if minds change in an Independent Scotland what then ?

 

Begging bowl to Westminster ?

Begging bowl, you really are something. But the answer is we have a GE if we don't like our government. Unlike now.

 

 

[frankblack]

6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

3 GEs in 4 years.  Minds change and you know the games a bogey.

 

Tick Tock!!!

 

The last two were to get a majority at WM to implement Brexit.  Boris now has that after Theresa May blew it.

 

The SNP now have zero leverage so Boris can implement Brexit and tell Nicola where to stick her Indy Ref 2.

[TheOak88]

2 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

A picture paints a thousand words. 

 

Surely the power of the EU would be greater in an iScotland as we would be in the Euro? Misleading info. 

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Begging bowl, you really are something. But the answer is we have a GE if we don't like our government. Unlike now.

 

 

Mind all these countries that have gained their independence from the U.K. since WW2 (51) who have went back to London with their begging bowl? 😁😁😁

[TheOak88]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Mind all these countries that have gained their independence from the U.K. since WW2 (51) who have went back to London with their begging bowl? 😁😁😁

 

I assume the countries you refer to were colonies not part of a Union?

[Space Mackerel]

Just now, TheOak88 said:

 

Surely the power of the EU would be greater in an iScotland as we would be in the Euro? Misleading info. 

How come the U.K. hasn’t been forced to use the Euro then?

 

And neither do these

 

• Bulgaria: Bulgarian lev (BGN)
• Croatia: Croatian kuna (HRK)
• Czech Republic: Czech koruna (CZK)
• Hungary: Hungarian forint (HUF)
• Macedonia: Macedonian denar (MKD)
• Poland: Polish zloty (PLN)
• Romania: Romania leu (RON)
• Serbia: Serbian dinar (RSD)l

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I assume the countries you refer to were colonies not part of a Union?

Like the ROI then? 
 

When did they go back with their begging bowl? 

[TheOak88]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

How come the U.K. hasn’t been forced to use the Euro then?

 

And neither do these

 

• Bulgaria: Bulgarian lev (BGN)
• Croatia: Croatian kuna (HRK)
• Czech Republic: Czech koruna (CZK)
• Hungary: Hungarian forint (HUF)
• Macedonia: Macedonian denar (MKD)
• Poland: Polish zloty (PLN)
• Romania: Romania leu (RON)
• Serbia: Serbian dinar (RSD)l

 

The UK has an opt-out. 

 

The countries you listed above do not meet the 5 criteria set out by the EU to join the Euro, as soon as they meet the 5 criteria they HAVE to join the Euro. No option. 

 

No offence, but do a bit of research on the topic. 

 

 

[TheOak88]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Like the ROI then? 
 

When did they go back with their begging bowl? 

 

Far more complicated situation in ROI. Do some reading regarding the Troubles. 

[Maroon Sailor]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Like the ROI then? 
 

When did they go back with their begging bowl? 

 

UK lent Ireland £3.2bn as part of bailout in 2010 with final repayment due in March 2021. ... The latest report from the British treasury says Ireland has now paid the UK £358 million in interest since 2011. Since June 2014, the UK exchequer has received an interest payment of around £42 million every six months

[Space Mackerel]

10 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

The UK has an opt-out. 

 

The countries you listed above do not meet the 5 criteria set out by the EU to join the Euro, as soon as they meet the 5 criteria they HAVE to join the Euro. No option. 

 

No offence, but do a bit of research on the topic. 

 

 

Naw the dinnae. You’re spouting rubbish. 😊

[Space Mackerel]

10 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

UK lent Ireland £3.2bn as part of bailout in 2010 with final repayment due in March 2021. ... The latest report from the British treasury says Ireland has now paid the UK £358 million in interest since 2011. Since June 2014, the UK exchequer has received an interest payment of around £42 million every six months

And how much did the ECB, the Fed and the Japanese lend? 
 

Think you need to swot up. 

[Space Mackerel]

13 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Far more complicated situation in ROI. Do some reading regarding the Troubles. 

like doing roaming patrols round airbases with live ammo back in the 90’s? 
 

That sort of reading up? 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

21 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

How come the U.K. hasn’t been forced to use the Euro then?

 

And neither do these

 

• Bulgaria: Bulgarian lev (BGN)
• Croatia: Croatian kuna (HRK)
• Czech Republic: Czech koruna (CZK)
• Hungary: Hungarian forint (HUF)
• Macedonia: Macedonian denar (MKD)
• Poland: Polish zloty (PLN)
• Romania: Romania leu (RON)
• Serbia: Serbian dinar (RSD)l

 

Serbia & Macedonia (now known as North Macedonia) are not in the EU, they along with Albania, Montenegro & Turkey have all applied to join the EU but are not yet member states.

[Ray Gin]

"I have no intention of forcing countries to join the euro if they are not willing or not able to do so"

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker

[TheOak88]

8 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Naw the dinnae. You’re spouting rubbish. 😊

 

Your suggesting the UK don’t have an opt-out? 

 

You are suggesting countries like Czech Republic and Bulgaria meet the 5 criteria set by the EU?

 

You must be clueless on the topic. 

 

BTW you listed Serbia who aren’t even a member of the EU. Then asked why the EU haven’t forced them to adopt the Euro!

 

 

 

[TheOak88]

4 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

"I have no intention of forcing countries to join the euro if they are not willing or not able to do so"

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker

 

Have a read of the Maastricht Treaty. Might be a bit of an eye opener for you. 

 

All new members of the EU must adopt the Euro.

Edited December 15, 2019 by TheOak88

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Have a read of the Maastricht Treaty. Might be a bit of an eye opener for you. 

 

All new members of the EU must adopt the Euro.

 

“not willing” 😁😁😁

[Ray Gin]

4 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Have a read of the Maastricht Treaty. Might be a bit of an eye opener for you. 

 

All new members of the EU must adopt the Euro.

 

Countries are able to negotiate opt-outs. Sweden being an example.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168

 

[Space Mackerel]

Will all EU countries have to adopt the euro after 2020? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168
 

😊

[TheOak88]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

Will all EU countries have to adopt the euro after 2020? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168
 

😊

 

I already stated UK have an Opt-out. 

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I already stated UK have an Opt-out. 

They'll have nothing if they ever try to reapply.

[TheOak88]

7 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Countries are able to negotiate opt-outs. Sweden being an example.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47523168

 

 

Sweden do NOT have an opt out. It even says that in the article you posted.

 

They have not met the 5 criteria required to join the Euro. 

[TheOak88]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

They'll have nothing if they ever try to reapply.

 

According to posters on here the Euro is optional anyway so shouldn’t be a problem. 

 

[Space Mackerel]

8 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I already stated UK have an Opt-out. 

And Denmark? 
 

Did you read the article?? 

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

They'll have nothing if they ever try to reapply.

The EU can’t kick England out quick enough now. 😁😁😁
 

 

[coconut doug]

3 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Sweden do NOT have an opt out. It even says that in the article you posted.

 

They have not met the 5 criteria required to join the Euro. 

 

Are there not several countries who adopted the Euro but were nowhere near meeting the criteria?

 

Montenegro uses the Euro and is not in the  EU. They don't have to meet any criteria.

[TheOak88]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

And Denmark? 
 

Did you read the article?? 

 

Yep, I am aware Denmark have an opt-out. 

 

UK and Denmark are the only two countries with an official opt-out. These countries joined the EU before the Maastricht Treaty. 

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

According to posters on here the Euro is optional anyway so shouldn’t be a problem. 

 

And you being the only solitary poster who believes his own made up nonsense. 
Did you get it off a Facebook meme? 😁😁😁

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, coconut doug said:

 

Are there not several countries who adopted the Euro but were nowhere near meeting the criteria?

 

Montenegro uses the Euro and is not in the  EU. They don't have to meet any criteria.

A lot of Caribbean Islands use the US dollar and they’re not even in the USA. 

[TheOak88]

3 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Are there not several countries who adopted the Euro but were nowhere near meeting the criteria?

 

Montenegro uses the Euro and is not in the  EU. They don't have to meet any criteria.

 

There are 2. Montenegro and Kosovo. These countries do not have an official currency, so use the Euro as their “de facto” currency. Effectively the Euro is NOT legal tender in either country, but the population accept it as currency. 

 

Neither country is part of the the currency union. 

[TheOak88]

5 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

And you being the only solitary poster who believes his own made up nonsense. 
Did you get it off a Facebook meme? 😁😁😁

 

Read the Maastricht Treaty and tell me where I am wrong?

 

This coming from the poster who thinks Serbia have EU membership.

 

[coconut doug]

1 minute ago, TheOak88 said:

 

There are 2. Montenegro and Kosovo. These countries do not have an official currency, so use the Euro as their “de facto” currency. Effectively the Euro is NOT legal tender in either country, but the population accept it as currency. 

 

Neither country is part of the the currency union. 

 

Correct but you claimed there were criteria needed to join the Euro.

 

What about the other countries including Germany who managed to officially join the Euro without meeting the criteria?

[TheOak88]

4 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Correct but you claimed there were criteria needed to join the Euro.

 

What about the other countries including Germany who managed to officially join the Euro without meeting the criteria?

 

Which criteria did Germany not meet?

[coconut doug]

Just now, TheOak88 said:

 

Which criteria did Germany not meet?

 

Current account deficit iirc. What about Greece, Spain , Portugal, they missed by a muck bigger margin?

[Space Mackerel]

The Oak giving Frank a run for his money here by being 100% wrong on everything. 😁😁😁

 

 

[TheOak88]

6 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Current account deficit iirc. What about Greece, Spain , Portugal, they missed by a muck bigger margin?

 

I don’t believe that was the case. Of the original countries to join the Euro, only Greece missed out due to deficit issues. 

[Maroon Sailor]

50 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

And how much did the ECB, the Fed and the Japanese lend? 
 

Think you need to swot up. 

 

I need to swot up ?

 

You were the one who was making out no country who got independence from the UK since WW2 have went back with a begging bowl !

 

 

[jack D and coke]

On 14/12/2019 at 11:04, Trapper John McIntyre said:

For the hard of thinking Natz among us, an explanation of why their great victory on 12th December is just another defeat for the SNP.

 

The SNP are unaware of the scale of their defeat

 

 

 

Politics is the continuation of war by other means is to rather mangle Clausewitz but expresses a truth that the SNP and most other Scots missed yesterday.  The SNP may have won a tactical victory, but they suffered a strategic defeat.

 

The SNP goal of creating an independent Scotland, depends on their being granted an independence referendum. But this depended on them holding the balance of power in a hung Parliament and propping up Labour.

 

The Conservatives put in their manifesto that they would not allow a second independence referendum and therefore have a perfect right not to allow one. This was a UK Election and a Government has a right indeed a duty to implement its manifesto. There is nothing undemocratic about this. Quite the reverse.

 

 

 The SNP offensive is the equivalent of the Battle of the Bulge (1944-5). Their tanks pierced the front line and broke through gaining an initial tactical victory. But they were just creating a giant salient and a position that was impossible to defend. Eventually the SNP ran out of petrol could not supply their beleaguered front line and what had seemed to be success eventually turned into strategic failure that hastened their final defeat.

 

The problem the Pro UK side faces is that most Scots are unwilling to exploit the SNP’s strategic defeat. The problem is that most Pro UK Scots agree with the SNP about nearly everything except independence.

 

The first problem is that we are conditioned to view UK elections through the lens of Scotland. We treat Scotland separately and accept the SNP narrative that it ought to be treated in this way. If you treat Scotland separately, you are a separatist.

 

Large numbers of Pro UK Scottish Remainers complained that Scotland did not vote Leave in the 2016 referendum. If you think that Scotland ought to have a veto in UK wide elections, you really ought to join the SNP.

 

But again, far too many Pro UK Scots think that the UK is akin to the EU. They think that the UK is a group of countries that happen to form a union just as long as it is convenient for us to do so. This is historical nonsense. The United Kingdom is one sovereign nation state in the same way that the United States is one sovereign nation state. It matters not at all that the parts of the United States are called “states” while the parts of the UK are called “countries.” Until and unless Pro UK Scots understand this, they will always be helping the SNP by confirming the SNP narrative and helping them win the argument.

 

It no more matters therefore that Scotland voted to Remain or that the majority of seats went to the SNP than that California voted for Hilary Clinton, but Donald Trump won the presidency. Secession is not justified by losing an election. If it were then no democracy would long endure. If you don’t understand this, you cannot even begin to understand the foundational texts of Western democracy.

 

The SNP should never have been given a first independence referendum. When the Scottish Parliament was established it was made clear that it would have no say on constitutional matters. These would be reserved. How then can the fact that the SNP won a majority in such a Parliament give them the right to decide matters that are outside their remit. It’s the equivalent of California deciding to declare war on Vermont. The same logic obviously applies now. It doesn’t matter if the SNP win a Holyrood majority in 2021. They still cannot decide matters that are reserved for the UK Government.

 

Obviously, the SNP don’t accept this. They are separatists. The problem we have is supposedly “Pro UK” Scottish commentators and the majority of left-wing Remainer Scots don’t accept it either. I have lost count of the number times I have read someone who I thought was Pro UK write things that support the SNP narrative and undermine the argument for the UK.

 

The SNP are bonnie fechters. They endure. They ignore defeat. They give it their all and they do everything they can to win. Far too many supposedly Pro UK Scots prefer to collaborate, aid and abet, and concede defeat at the first set back. There may be one hundred opinion polls showing a Pro UK majority in Scotland but let there be just one showing the tiniest nationalist majority and our distinguished newspaper columnists say we are doomed.

 

Scotland has a rather unintelligent intelligentsia, which can’t even make up its mind what to think nowadays. At least the SNP believe in something.

 

The Pro UK argument has never been better, but its left to people like me to make it. Years and years after I began arguing that Brexit will make Scottish independence impossible, I read someone mention it as if he has just discovered the wheel.

 

But the Lefty Remainer mindset prevents far too many Pro UK Scots from thinking strategically. This is why we still divide our forces into three so that the SNP can defeat us in detail. This is why we still repeat the same old tactical voting strategy even when it keeps being defeated in exactly the same way as before. One more push and we’ll beat them isn’t a strategy. It leaves you hanging on the old barbed wire.

 

So, for those who haven’t been following closely. Here is the strategy.

 

Get us out of the EU.

 

Don’t agree with the SNP about anything. Don’t give any legitimacy to their narrative and don’t think or talk about Scotland as being in any way separate.

 

Don’t think that another independence referendum and another nationalist defeat would make the SNP give up their dream of independence. It wouldn’t. It would fuel it. Didn’t you watch last time?

 

Give us time. Delay.

 

Leaving the EU will make the whole of the UK gradually diverge from our European neighbors. As they continue to unite, we will continue to be different. In time this will make the idea of rejoining seem quaint, then it will be impossible. Let us take back control of those massive chunks of ordinary life that the EU presently controls and then let the SNP explain that they are going to give them up in order to join a federal EU. Let them explain how keeping the pound is consistent with promising to give it up. Let them explain how an independent Scotland would start life both outside the UK and outside the EU having to negotiate trade deals with both.

 

That’s it.

 

Keep fighting folks. We are winning.

That is the biggest load of shite I’ve ever read. 
That is a shocking viewpoint to take. 
Utter drivel. 

[TheOak88]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

The Oak giving Frank a run for his money here by being 100% wrong on everything. 😁😁😁

 

 

 

Mate, point out one thing I have said that was wrong? 

 

Are Serbia a member of the EU or not?

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

I need to swot up ?

 

You were the one who was making out no country who got independence from the UK since WW2 have went back with a begging bowl !

 

 

Oddly enough, it’s you Scots Unionists that permanently have the begging bowl out.  

[coconut doug]

3 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

I don’t believe that was the case. Of the original countries to join the Euro, only Greece missed out due to deficit issues. 

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Criteria-for-Joining-the-Euro-Zone-1154904  

 

Even if you don't accept this is seems you accept the case for Greece so my point is sound.  According to this site Scotland may meet the criteria too.

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, TheOak88 said:

 

Mate, point out one thing I have said that was wrong? 

 

Are Serbia a member of the EU or not?

ok, 98% then. 

[Space Mackerel]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

That is the biggest load of shite I’ve ever read. 
That is a shocking viewpoint to take. 
Utter drivel. 

Tell me you didn’t read a whole Trapper John post pal? 😕😮

[jack D and coke]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

Tell me you didn’t read a whole Trapper John post pal? 😕😮

Stopped at the “shouldn’t have been allowed a first Indyref”

So halfway🤷🏽‍♂️

[TheOak88]

9 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Criteria-for-Joining-the-Euro-Zone-1154904  

 

Even if you don't accept this is seems you accept the case for Greece so my point is sound.  According to this site Scotland may meet the criteria too.

 

No I accept that Greece at the time of the original launch of the Euro didn’t meet the criteria hence why they didn’t join at the same time as the originals. They subsequently achieved the criteria and joined. 

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Stopped at the “shouldn’t have been allowed a first Indyref”

So halfway🤷🏽‍♂️

£20 says it was written by the Holocaust denier.