Even More SNP Nonsense

[Spitonastranger]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Pray tell Einstein, how are you planning to make the Tories give you Indy Ref 2 when they have a decisive majority at Westminster?

Einstein how long did it take you to think of that, we are part of a union we can do things including carry out a vote and push  through. Scotland has given a mandate to the SNP. You keep voting Tory let the grown ups look after our future for our children. 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Spitonastranger said:

Einstein how long did it take you to think of that, we are part of a union we can do things including carry out a vote and push  through. Scotland has given a mandate to the SNP. You keep voting Tory let the grown ups look after our future for our children. 

 

Unfortunately your "mandate" isn't legal as you don't have the powers as its not a devolved matter.

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Unfortunately your "mandate" isn't legal as you don't have the powers as its not a devolved matter.

“Union of Equals” 😁😁😁

[frankblack]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

“Union of Equals” 😁😁😁

 

You haven't grasped what devolved powers means.

 

Sturgeon couldn't answer Andrew Marr this morning about what the SNP are going to do if Boris simply ignores the SNP calls for independence for the next 5 years:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1217468/BBC-Andrew-Marr-Nicola-Sturgeon-interview-SNP-scottish-independence-latest

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

You haven't grasped what devolved powers means.

 

Sturgeon couldn't answer Andrew Marr this morning about what the SNP are going to do if Boris simply ignores the SNP calls for independence for the next 5 years:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1217468/BBC-Andrew-Marr-Nicola-Sturgeon-interview-SNP-scottish-independence-latest

I’m pretty aware what is devolved and what’s not. And to be honest, most of Doris’s social policies will be insulated up here due to the Scottish Parliament.

Anyway, I bet it will be Doris and you losing sleepless nights about Indy ref 2 rather than Ms Sturgeon and me. 😊

 

[Spitonastranger]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Unfortunately your "mandate" isn't legal as you don't have the powers as its not a devolved matter.

You keep telling yourself that 

[Space Mackerel]

5 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

You keep telling yourself that 

Frank better check chapter 18 of the Smith Commission report too.

 

You know, that massive U.K. cross party consultation after 2014. 

[Ray Gin]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

See my previous post - they have a clear mandate - 364 > 48 seats.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50779901

 

The SNP won 80% of the seats available to them. 

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The SNP won 80% of the seats available to them. 

Mind though, frank thinks there were people canvassing for the SNP in Dudley and Sedgefield. 🤡

[Swanny17]

“90% of the time since 1935 we've had single-party 'majority' governments, but not one of them had the support of a majority of voters“.

 

Just saying. 

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Swanny17 said:

“90% of the time since 1935 we've had single-party 'majority' governments, but not one of them had the support of a majority of voters“.

 

Just saying. 

Well, who said that? 

[Swanny17]

2 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Well, who said that? 

https://www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post

 

I’m not going to get involved in the Independence/Union argument but the issue with the first last the post system is that the majority of the electorate did not vote Tory in the GE19. 
 

Ironically, the Tories got around 45% of votes across the UK, with the SNP getting the same in Scotland. 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50779901

 

Therefore, if the Tories have a mandate to remove the UK from the EU, despite only having 45% of the vote, the same should apply to the SNP with regards to a second referendum. 

[Space Mackerel]

12 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

https://www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post

 

I’m not going to get involved in the Independence/Union argument but the issue with the first last the post system is that the majority of the electorate did not vote Tory in the GE19. 
 

Ironically, the Tories got around 45% of votes across the UK, with the SNP getting the same in Scotland. 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50779901

 

Therefore, if the Tories have a mandate to remove the UK from the EU, despite only having 45% of the vote, the same should apply to the SNP with regards to a second referendum. 

Thanks for that balanced and well thought out post.

 

Remember, there are people on this forum that have forgotten about EVEL but think the common English electorates opinion matters up here. 

[Maroon Sailor]

16 minutes ago, Swanny17 said:

https://www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post

 

I’m not going to get involved in the Independence/Union argument but the issue with the first last the post system is that the majority of the electorate did not vote Tory in the GE19. 
 

Ironically, the Tories got around 45% of votes across the UK, with the SNP getting the same in Scotland. 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50779901

 

Therefore, if the Tories have a mandate to remove the UK from the EU, despite only having 45% of the vote, the same should apply to the SNP with regards to a second referendum. 

 

The majority of the people in the U K voted to leave the EU.

 

The Government therefore have to act on that result.

 

The majority of the people in Scotland voted to remain in the U.K

 

The Government therefore have to act on that result.

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

55 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You haven't grasped what devolved powers means.

 

Sturgeon couldn't answer Andrew Marr this morning about what the SNP are going to do if Boris simply ignores the SNP calls for independence for the next 5 years:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1217468/BBC-Andrew-Marr-Nicola-Sturgeon-interview-SNP-scottish-independence-latest

You're always a wee bit bitter fb. You should be happy. 

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The majority of the people in the U K voted to leave the EU.

 

The Government therefore have to act on that result.

 

The majority of the people in Scotland voted to remain in the U.K

 

The Government therefore have to act on that result.

 

 

Wait a minute, hold your horses! 
 

Is Scotland still in the U.K. and it looks like we are leaving the EU in January? 

[Gambo]

With the 2 main parties (who would argue against Independence) self I.ploding over last few years, it is damming for the SNP that they can only get 45% of recent Scottish votes and only 30% of the actual electorate.

SNP as daft as it sounds are not the party to give us independence.

[manaliveits105]

Cos they are shit one trick ponies

[Maroon Sailor]

9 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Wait a minute, hold your horses! 
 

Is Scotland still in the U.K. and it looks like we are leaving the EU in January? 

 

Afraid so kid

 

Scotland could have been the hero and tipped it in the remainers favour

 

Not to be - them the breaks

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Afraid so kid

 

Scotland could have been the hero and tipped it in the remainers favour

 

Not to be - them the breaks

No honestly, all referendums so far have been or will be implemented.

 

You're moaning about **** all. 

[Maroon Sailor]

1 minute ago, Space Mackerel said:

No honestly, all referendums so far have been or will be implemented.

 

You're moaning about **** all. 

 

WTF are you on about ?

 

Neither referendum result has been popular

 

They are divisive and The Sturge wants another one !

 

Gie us aw peace FFS !

 

 

[Boof]

29 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

The majority of the people in the U K voted to leave the EU.

 

The majority of the people in Scotland voted to remain in the U.K

 

No, they didn't.

 

No, they didn't.

[Maroon Sailor]

2 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

No, they didn't.

 

No, they didn't.

 

OK, they didn't

[Space Mackerel]

7 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

WTF are you on about ?

 

Neither referendum result has been popular

 

They are divisive and The Sturge wants another one !

 

Gie us aw peace FFS !

 

 

You’re on the internet moaning about Scotland not leaving the U.K. after 2014 and Doris leaving the EU in Jan 2019? 🤡

[Space Mackerel]

Imagine moaning about winning 😁😁😁

[Maroon Sailor]

6 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Imagine moaning about winning 😁😁😁

 

Tell me 

 

Is this your first visit to planet Earth ?

 

You need to throw yourself back in the water Spacefish

 

 

 

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Tell me 

 

Is this your first visit to planet Earth ?

 

You need to throw yourself back in the water Spacefish

 

 

 

But you’ve won them all, referendums are they way to go surely in the future? 

[Maroon Sailor]

4 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

But you’ve won them all, referendums are they way to go surely in the future? 

 

Nope

 

They are divisive

[Space Mackerel]

3 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Nope

 

They are divisive

So how do you overcome political difference of wills? 
 

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

So how do you overcome political difference of wills? 
 

 

 

 

By accepting the result in the first place.

[Space Mackerel]

1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

By accepting the result in the first place.

We’ve done that. Why didn’t Doris respect the result of the GE in 2017? 

[Maroon Sailor]

Just now, Space Mackerel said:

We’ve done that. Why didn’t Doris respect the result of the GE in 2017? 

 

How do you mean ?

 

His party won the election

[Space Mackerel]

6 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

How do you mean ?

 

His party won the election

so what are you moaning about?

 

You don’t like future democracy aye? 😂😊

 

Go and have a lie doon. 

[Space Mackerel]

Scottish Labour coming round to full Indy, Paul Sweeney up for it now it seems 😎

[XB52]

3 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

Scottish Labour coming round to full Indy, Paul Sweeney up for it now it seems 😎

The Daily Record seems to be shifting it's viewpoint. Maybe, just maybe, we might start to get less one sided msm coverage and, assuming we do, then independence is guaranteed

[Maroon Sailor]

8 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

so what are you moaning about?

 

You don’t like future democracy aye? 😂😊

 

Go and have a lie doon. 

 

Like I say you need to jump back in the water you are beginning to dry out.

 

I'll throw you a towel when you come back out as your brain will have been washed again.

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

The Daily Record seems to be shifting it's viewpoint. Maybe, just maybe, we might start to get less one sided msm coverage and, assuming we do, then independence is guaranteed

Paul Hutcheon though, middle aged well preserved gammon 😕

[Space Mackerel]

4 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

Like I say you need to jump back in the water you are beginning to dry out.

 

I'll throw you a towel when you come back out as your brain will have been washed again.

Here you have it readers, a Unionist talking to a former Unionist about brainwashing.

 

😁😁😁

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, manaliveits105 said:

Cos they are shit one trick ponies

[Space Mackerel]

This thread is a carbon copy of the people who post on The Scotsman and Evening News. I hope the Mods take action. 
 

Too much trolling and frankly nonsense being posted. 😊

[Spitonastranger]

2 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

Frank better check chapter 18 of the Smith Commission report too.

 

You know, that massive U.K. cross party consultation after 2014. 

Don't confuse him in his denial, we should know our place according to him.

[Space Mackerel]

8 minutes ago, Spitonastranger said:

Don't confuse him in his denial, we should know our place according to him.

Even funnier when PHM know what’s in the badge, a Saltire

[Space Mackerel]

[TheOak88]

3 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

I put you at the opposite end of the age spectrum. I voted in it. 
75% is quite a convincing endorsement? 
 

I expect Trapper voted Naw 😕

 

Nah I remember going on a primary school trip when the Scottish Parliament was founded (1999 maybe?). I imagine I would have voted for devolution tho. I am a big fan of devolution, just not convinced by independence. 

[flecktimus]

2 hours ago, Swanny17 said:

https://www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/first-past-the-post

 

I’m not going to get involved in the Independence/Union argument but the issue with the first last the post system is that the majority of the electorate did not vote Tory in the GE19. 
 

Ironically, the Tories got around 45% of votes across the UK, with the SNP getting the same in Scotland. 
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50779901

 

Therefore, if the Tories have a mandate to remove the UK from the EU, despite only having 45% of the vote, the same should apply to the SNP with regards to a second referendum. 

Far to sensible. 

 

[strappingjock]

Perhaps the SNP should be honest with the population about the real  consequences of independence.  You may lose the Barnett formula early if Boris has any balls. That would be the first item in the list that will bring a chill to the population.  Scotland would then be in the real world as UK public expenditure would then be the same rate for all people in the UK - not a 20% increase for the Scots compared to the English.  If Scotland  has to pay itself for all its expenditure how long will free elderly care and university education last -  6 months if they are lucky.

Losing  the Trident base would be inconvenient for England but not a disaster, merely transfer jobs to England. Scotland has just done a good job on those new carriers.  Helensburgh would surely feel the loss of economic activity and I wonder what happened to Dunoon after the US pulled out. Rosyth would not get another order.  No more ship orders so the poor English will have to build their own as they already do with most.  Who wins ?   English workers.  Since Scotland would be left with a huge coastline and a few patrol ships you will be out of the EU, out of NATO  and learning the Cyrillic alphabet because there will have nothing to stop Vladimir from walking in like he did with Ukraine.  England will still be in NATO.

Out of the EU for sure and despite cocky claims by SNP it will take a minimum of five years for Scotland to qualify for EU membership.  It will not have a recognised currency of its own which is a prerequisite.  It may think it can use Sterling, which it can, but that will not count. The only alternative will be to adopt the Euro, which it must do to join anyway.  Using Sterling means being told what to do by London, using the Euro you get told what to do by Brussels/Frankfurt.

In 2014 Scotland said it would keep the pound and the queen.  The first is a non-starter, the second is problematic.  Australia, Canada etc were colonies/dominions and became new countries. They kept the crown and the Union flag in theirs if desired.  Scotland has its own flag without the UF.  Since the union of crowns in 1604 the monarch has ruled over a united territory, the more so since 1707.  It would be actually impossible for the queen to retain sovereignty over Scotland when it is independent,  as there is no longer a Scottish crown. It is now a UK crown and Scotland will be out of it. To keep the queen would need something new like a governor general but that would never suit the Scots -  Australia 1976 !!!  Balmoral would have to be sold as the queen could not holiday in a foreign country.

Hard border would be required.  With the majority in the  bag UK would have no need to placate Scotland at all. The present UK  is the second biggest contributor, after Germany,  to the EU budget and one of two nuclear powers. That makes loss of the UK  a big deal in Europe. Those remaining will have to pick up the tab left by UK absence.  Not so with Scotland, which needs the UK- in reality England - far more than England needs Scotland.  Scotland makes up only 8.3% of UK population with England making up around 84%.  As Canada will tell anyone, if your neigbour has ten times your population and all the guns, you are better off in bed with him than out in the cold.

Scottish integrity is questionable.  In 1707 Scotland accepted an offer of union because their financiers had completely wrecked the country. England paid a settlement and we became one country/nation.  In 2008/9 England had to bail out the Scots again.  RBS and HBOS screwed up big time. Lloyds was given special permission to take over HBOS but then had to be given public money when the true state of HBOS disaster was discovered. RBS was so bad it had to be directly taken over by the UK government.  Both problems were cause by small Scottish banks borrowing huge sums to buy much bigger English ones ( Nat West and Halifax)  Complete disasters, and perhaps an indication of the real acumen of "canny Scots" . Within five years the unappreciative jocks are looking to stab in the back the very people who have bailed them out twice.  Perhaps it is true the Scots hate the English but love their money. The population would be mad to place its future in the hands of Scottish financiers.

On a historical note Nicola might look  behind her. Scottish leaders can sometimes come to a sticky  end when it suits. Wallace the hero was actually handed over to the English and dealt with accordingly. However, the canny jocks learned a lesson and when it came the Charles I, they at least had the  sense to sell him to Cromwell. No doubt   they enjoyed the £400k ( in 1645 money) they got for him.  When Nicola has served her purpose ( or not as the case my be )  she will probably go the way of all sturgeons past their sell by date.

My mother loved Scotland. I enjoyed my time living in Morayshire and Glasgow. Scotland is now a no go area. I refuse to cross the border or buy any products/produce from Scottish sources. Fortunately potatoes/strawberries etc. usually show where they come  from so Scottish ones are rejected, as with anything else north of the border e.g. Scottish Power, SSE etc.  In fact I discovered by accident a family member had independently stopped drinking any form of scotch. I only ever drank Islay but, after 40 years, quit.  That is only two people, but I bet there are many more of a silent number of English who would wish the Scots to leave, and we have just seen what happens when the silent English act. Many would like to see Scotland crash as a country and watch it starve because of ungrateful behaviour.  The "once in  generation/lifetime" referendum was rejected it.  Continual agitation for independence merely aggravates us south of the border.  Scots have turned from being good colleagues into "whining Winnies".

In some aspects the view of the English is now becoming true.  Scotland is statistically irrelevant at only one in 12 of the UK population.  Too long has there been a tendency to placate moaning minorities. All that does is embolden them to ask for more. Time to put a stop to it. The UK at the moment is a United Kingdom, i.e. a single entity.  When the UK as a whole is asked a question then the majority vote takes precedence. The fact that one area may have a different yes/no mix is irrelevant.  It would be like the North East of England protesting that they voted leave and London voted remain.  That is the price of democracy.  SNP problem is it only accepts democracy which suits its immedate purpose.

The message to Scotland is to be thankful for what you have. It will be very cold out on your own, but as things stand a lot of the English would like to be rid of the whinging minority. They have become more trouble than they are worth.

 

Edited December 15, 2019 by strappingjock

[Space Mackerel]

First sentence, strapping jock says Boris should cut Barnett formula.

 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, flecktimus said:

Far to sensible. 

 

 

No its not - its factually incorrect comparing a GE multi party share of the vote with a two way referendum.  The objective comparison is with the two referendums.

 

Both the Indy and Brexit referendums required a majority over 50%.

 

David Cameron got that mandate for leave but other parties blocked it, whereas Salmond only got 45%.  Boris now has a majority to execute the democratic will of the people.

[Space Mackerel]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

No its not - its factually incorrect comparing a GE multi party share of the vote with a two way referendum.  The objective comparison is with the two referendums.

 

Both the Indy and Brexit referendums required a majority over 50%.

 

David Cameron got that mandate for leave but other parties blocked it, whereas Salmond only got 45%.  Boris now has a majority to execute the democratic will of the people.

I think half England frank is shiting bricks, what do you think readers? 😁😁😁

[manaliveits105]

I think like the majority of Scots the English are sick of the constant whinging of Sturgeon Russell Blackwood Cherry and co and want to get on with their life’s with their families 

they should feck off to an uninhabited northern isle and bore each other to death