The mystery of sell outs and swathes of empty seats

[Dalstonjambo]

As someone who travels from London every game I struggle to agree with this. We are going to the same place. Where we choose/are forced to live shouldn't make a difference to that.

 

I do agree about the season ticket comment though.

 

 

It was a pish idea IMO. If people choose to live 400 miles away from Tynie then that's their issue/choice. How folk can't grasp and accept what the points system is about is unreal. 

Please see above. That's exactly what I said. I agree. I think you need to learn to read the posts I'm referring to and breathe before you respond. 

 

My point was your first reply to FA was absolutely pointless. You can't seem to grasp this, i have no issue in grasping what the point system is about. It rewards loyalty. I have never had an issue getting tickets for games, as I go to them. 

 

My point was don't claim someone is making a completely different point to the one they are, post a stupid gif and then try and ridicule the point you claimed they made. It's another example of how decent debate has disappeared on this board.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Please see above. That's exactly what I said. I agree. I think you need to learn to read the posts I'm referring to and breathe before you respond. 

 

My point was your first reply to FA was absolutely pointless. You can't seem to grasp this, i have no issue in grasping what the point system is about. It rewards loyalty. I have never had an issue getting tickets for games, as I go to them. 

 

My point was don't claim someone is making a completely different point to the one they are, post a stupid gif and then try and ridicule the point you claimed they made. It's another example of how decent debate has disappeared on this board.

No probs chief 

[Homme]

It's amazing how precious presumably fully grown adults can get over a wee points system

 

More points if you live further away? I'll just get my ST posted to my pal in Ullapool in future then.

[kila]

So somebody here on holiday from Australia that takes in a game will have more loyalty points for the season than somebody who attends all 38 SPL games. Good suggestion

I think he meant away games

[Francis Albert]

I think loyalty  points should be a bit like air miles. You should get a lot more for travelling say 400 miles to a game than a few hundred yards.

 

Seriously,  the idea that those who financially commit to a full season in advance should potentially get the same as those who leave it till an hour before KO to buy a ticket seems an odd definition of loyalty. (And oh yes I know all these people have to wait for their Friday pay packet before buying a ticket)

Sorry to quote myself but the word "Seriously" at the start of my second sentence was an indication that my first sentence was not serious!

 

People seem too obsessed with this minor problem that they don't notice anything like that. Talk about mountains out of molehills. If people get so upset over a few empty seats that it harms their enjoyment and the "atmosphere" I hope they weren't around in the 60s and 70s or indeed in almost every season since.

[mitch41]

Straight to the top champ,we await the result of your endeavours.

been very busy but sending of an email this evening. I'll let you know what i said and we'll see what the responce is. I don't mind waiting on an answer as long as it clears the air.

[novoman]

Nice one Mitch, thanks for the update . You go get them big man

[mitch41]

Email away to Mark Waterson. It's to the point and i'll have to copy it on here longhand lol. Well i'm in the building game. It's late but i promise to do it tomorrow night.

[Bazzas right boot]

Some of the suggestions on here are fantastic, this thread could be heading towards classic status.

[mitch41]

Right my Jambos friends i sent this Email to Mark Watson on the 19th October at 23.17,

Subject : Why so many empty seats when games are sold out.

 

F.A.O. Mark Waterson

 

Dear Mr Watson, I have been discussing with fellow Hearts fans and friends why there are so many empty seats on match days when

Hearts F.C. have announced that games at Tynecastle are sold out. Now myself among others can see in some sections of the

ground, including H Lower, certain seats are always empty and even a friend of mine who sits in Section B Lower tells me there are 2

seats behind him which are never used. Fans who are on Jambos Kickback have also informed me that there are many seats in the 

ground that are never filled and my question is why is this happening when the sold out sign is put up.

I would understand if it was a question of Season Ticket Holders not attending a game and their seat is not sold. I know that if the Season

Ticket Holder informed the Ticket Office they couldn't attend a game the club could sell their seat.

I wonder if you Mr Waterson can inform me why myself, like many other fans, find it hard to understand why so many seats are empty on

match days.

Why so many seats are never occupied by anyone.

I would like to know why Hearts fans are turned away on match days when a match is said to be sold out when there are so many seats

unoccupied.

Do the Ticket Office know how many seats are lying empty.

Do the Ticket Office have any idea why this is happening considering the fact that apart from Hearts fans being turned away Hearts FC

are losing money by not selling these seats that are never occupied.

What system do the Ticket Office have to monitor which seats are never filled.

I believe these questions would never of come up regarding empty seats but for the large numbers involved.

I am sending this Email for your attention as i like many others hope that these empty seats are available on the Ticket Office system to

be sold. Like i said before if some of these are Season Ticket Holders i will understand but the numbers are so high i would hate to 

think these seats are empty because of a systems failure in the Ticket Office.

 

Yours etc ect

 

Well there you go i hope i've covered the question with this Email if not i apologise.

 

Now all i can do is wait for  Mark Waterson to reply.

[Craigieboy]

Quite a confrontational tone there m8.

[Ray Gin]

People have bought season tickets for those seats but don't go to the match. The club can't sell the seat again without the original purchaser telling them it is ok to do so.

[Unknown user]

Quite a confrontational tone there m8.

[Boab]

People have bought season tickets for those seats but don't go to the match. The club can't sell the seat again without the original purchaser telling them it is ok to do so.

 

 

Mystery solved !

 

Only took 7 friggin pages !

 

That's not a slight in your direction, incidentally !

[Dagger Is Back]

Quite a confrontational tone there m8.

Got to say I agree CB. A few times I cringed a wee bit with some of the words but fair play at least for picking up the issue and doing something about it.

 

I'll be interested in the reply but for me it just shows the importance of club/fan relationships and how critical it is that there is a regular dialogue.

 

JKB have done so much for HMFC over the years. In hindsight it might have been something that AB could have picked up as part of a regular Q&A filmed and hosted via the clubs website.

 

Really sorry Mitch if that comes over as overly critical but there has to be a better way of highlighting issues than bombarding the club with emails.

 

I include myself in that and the answers I'm trying to get on a process for reselling unused match tickets. The club have got lots of current issues to deal with and I must admit I feel like I'm just hassling them now for answers.

[Dalstonjambo]

Quite a confrontational tone there m8.

Exactly what i thought. Fair play for having a go but you might want to get someone to proof read it.

 

And I don't want to sound like a **** but it's a lot harder to be taken seriously when the email is littered with punctuation and grammar errors.

 

Also - we know the answer it's season ticket holders that don't turn up.

[mitch41]

Exactly what i thought. And I don't want to sound like a **** but it's a lot harder to be taken seriously when the email is littered with punctuation and grammar errors.

Oh dear i should of stuck in at school rather than leave aged 15. Sorry if i came on a bit strong but i live in the real world. I thought i was quite polite and all i was really asking for was answers to the many seats that are empty when the sold out sign goes up. I may not be as educated as some but believe me all i care about is Hearts being the best.

Let's see what Mark Waterson comes back with instead of slagging my grammer.

[Dalstonjambo]

Oh dear i should of stuck in at school rather than leave aged 15. Sorry if i came on a bit strong but i live in the real world. I thought i was quite polite and all i was really asking for was answers to the many seats that are empty when the sold out sign goes up. I may not be as educated as some but believe me all i care about is Hearts being the best.

Let's see what Mark Waterson comes back with instead of slagging my grammer.

Which is fair enough. And i was just offering constructive feedback, hence my 'I don't want to sound..'

 

Stuff tends to be treated more seriously when its not got basic errors in it was my point. Sorry if I offended you. But unfortunately that's the reality.

 

Re the coming on a bit strong, you might not have meant it but it comes across that way as a few people have said.

 

My biggest issue is you seem to be asking for answers to a question we already know the answers to. On the whole anyway. It's season ticket holders who don't attend.

 

What we should be asking (and many have said they have) is why don't the club do more to raise awareness of how to give them back if you cannot attend. As a London based season ticket holder i miss some games. I only found out about phoning the club via here. That's wrong. It's fair enough to dispute this with the club.

[Unknown user]

Oh dear i should of stuck in at school rather than leave aged 15. Sorry if i came on a bit strong but i live in the real world. I thought i was quite polite and all i was really asking for was answers to the many seats that are empty when the sold out sign goes up. I may not be as educated as some but believe me all i care about is Hearts being the best.

Let's see what Mark Waterson comes back with instead of slagging my grammer.

Spelling and that is what it is, we all have different specialities!

But living in the real world, surely you're likely to get more goodwill and effort from the human that reads your email if you're friendly about it.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

Eff me, I went to skool when I was a children and learned how to spoke proper England

[jamtartan74]

Would it be difficult for the club to send either a txt message or email to season ticket holders if for example a seat wasn't used for more than 2 games or so to ask if the seat would be available for resale each game with a simple yes/no reply to enable the club to resell if required. Or is that invasion of privacy lol, just an idea. What a problem to have though eh, well done fellow jambos.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RussAsia]

Been back on forth reading this thread but not managed to get through it all.. Mitch's email was fine.. It was blunt and too the point and with mistakes however it was from a football fan to a football club by email, not a posted letter to a lawyer..

 

Regarding the rewarding of anything for releasing your seat.. It's impossible because what happens if you return your seat and someone buys that seat.. However there were still some seats left in the Roseburn that the purchaser could have had therefore Hearts would be losing money by giving you any form of payment for reselling your seat.. It would only work once every other seat was sold out and then how would they decide who gets their reward from the people who are buying season ticket seats..

 

The best idea I've seen on here is the one where rather than get a block of loyalty points for buying a season ticket you should get 2 points for every home game that you attend. You can also keep the 2 points if you contact the club to resell your seat.. However if your season ticket isn't used and it wasn't given back for resale then you wouldn't get the 2 points for that match.. That means that people who go to the games get their points.. if you give it up then you get your points.. however if you aren't turning up or releasing it you are losing out on the loyalty points.. I think then it would see people for example those abroad who bought tickets to help us in our time of need, but who can only make maybe one game a season, the motivation to give up their seats for resale..

 

From watching the Dundee game on Hearts world, lower D had lots of spaces in it (5-6 beside each other).. That's prime seats right on the half way line.. we need to be working out out to sell them with nobody losing out..

[Jambothump]

The one that really puzzled me was how many empty seats there was for the Hibs Scottish Cup game last season, particularly in the Gorgie stand ?

[scott herbertson]

I thought the same as others in reading Mitch's post then I thought - what he hell - he's bothered his ass to do this and I haven't so good on him.

 

I'm sure the club wont be particularly offended and I hope they would answer the factual questions not the tone.

 

Having read this, counted dots and mused over missing seats for several years I think the odd seats here and there which are not used are clearly non attending season ticket holders who variety of reasons ((death, illness, distance, fedupness and laziness being some) just don't use them and aren't aware of the return scheme or can't do it (death and illness)  or can't be bothered (laziness and fedupness).

 

The mystery really is the larger chunks like lower Z, and maybe that would be helpful to have explained.
Re the marketing and operation of the scheme I would hope someone from the club has a quick read through the thread as there are some good ideas there.

It is an area  where maybe FOH could help too, as using their database and monthly blog would be a route to raising awareness of the resell scheme.

[mitch41]

Spelling and that is what it is, we all have different specialities!

But living in the real world, surely you're likely to get more goodwill and effort from the human that reads your email if you're friendly about it.

Your right it's just me. I'm not used to being in this position. But i am poiite aren't i ?

[Bazzas right boot]

Ffs, picking up on the guys spelling and grammar, no need.

 

The blocks of empty seats are a mystery.

 

On individual empty seats, there are various reasons already discussed. When I can't go to a game I give my ticket to someone I know, I've never sold it back to the club, what if I changed my mind/ felt better/ plans got cancelled? I like to have the option of going so I'm very unlikely to sell it back, coupled with the possibility of saving my friend sitting next to some crackpot for 90 mins.

[Kim490]

Right my Jambos friends i sent this Email to Mark Watson on the 19th October at 23.17,

Subject : Why so many empty seats when games are sold out.

 

F.A.O. Mark Waterson

 

Dear Mr Watson, I have been discussing with fellow Hearts fans and friends why there are so many empty seats on match days when

Hearts F.C. have announced that games at Tynecastle are sold out. Now myself among others can see in some sections of the

ground, including H Lower, certain seats are always empty and even a friend of mine who sits in Section B Lower tells me there are 2

seats behind him which are never used. Fans who are on Jambos Kickback have also informed me that there are many seats in the

ground that are never filled and my question is why is this happening when the sold out sign is put up.

I would understand if it was a question of Season Ticket Holders not attending a game and their seat is not sold. I know that if the Season

Ticket Holder informed the Ticket Office they couldn't attend a game the club could sell their seat.

I wonder if you Mr Waterson can inform me why myself, like many other fans, find it hard to understand why so many seats are empty on

match days.

Why so many seats are never occupied by anyone.

I would like to know why Hearts fans are turned away on match days when a match is said to be sold out when there are so many seats

unoccupied.

Do the Ticket Office know how many seats are lying empty.

Do the Ticket Office have any idea why this is happening considering the fact that apart from Hearts fans being turned away Hearts FC

are losing money by not selling these seats that are never occupied.

What system do the Ticket Office have to monitor which seats are never filled.

I believe these questions would never of come up regarding empty seats but for the large numbers involved.

I am sending this Email for your attention as i like many others hope that these empty seats are available on the Ticket Office system to

be sold. Like i said before if some of these are Season Ticket Holders i will understand but the numbers are so high i would hate to

think these seats are empty because of a systems failure in the Ticket Office.

 

Yours etc ect

 

Well there you go i hope i've covered the question with this Email if not i apologise.

 

Now all i can do is wait for Mark Waterson to reply.

You really need to get out more...

 

Ridiculous thread.

[jamboman9]

You really need to get out more...

 

Ridiculous thread.

Uncalled for,its actually a POST and the thread is not ridiculous. CONNER SAMMON!!!!

[Unknown user]

Your right it's just me. I'm not used to being in this position. But i am poiite aren't i ?

I'm not here to slag you mitch, and good on you for making the effort - I've made contact with the club myself in the past. But I've got to be honest, it reads like a prosecution lawyer examining a witness!

[kila]

It'd be interesting to know if those empty seat tickets have actually been used that match day. It'd confirm that folk are coming into the ground with that seat allocated but sitting elsewhere.

 

Still, it doesn't explain why there's rows of empty seats, especially with reasonable views

[jambali]

Would it be difficult for the club to send either a txt message or email to season ticket holders if for example a seat wasn't used for more than 2 games or so to ask if the seat would be available for resale each game with a simple yes/no reply to enable the club to resell if required. Or is that invasion of privacy lol, just an idea. What a problem to have though eh, well done fellow jambos.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How are they to know? Do we pay staff to go round noting which seats are empty? Even then, as we all know from JKB people sometimes go in but don't sit in their allocated seat.

[mitch41]

I'm not here to slag you mitch, and good on you for making the effort - I've made contact with the club myself in the past. But I've got to be honest, it reads like a prosecution lawyer examining a witness!

I'll tell you this i'm very good in court lol.

[FarmerTweedy]

I have asked the Club to re-sale my ST seat on 2 or 3 occasions when I was away on holiday. I am happy to do so, without any refund, as the Club gets extra revenue.

 

The reason I suggested Loyalty Points as a incentive to fans who do not bother (or forget) to inform the Club, was that unlike refunds or shop vouchers it costs the Club nothing.

 

I do realise that the subject of Loyalty points seems to be pretty precious to some on here.

Shop vouchers might actually make the club more money, as people might well use them as part payment, along with money, for stuff they might not otherwise have bought at all.

[kila]

Shop vouchers might actually make the club more money, as people might well use them as part payment, along with money, for stuff they might not otherwise have bought at all.

 

Skip a few home games and you'll get the rosebery strip for free

[Thomaso]

Shop vouchers might actually make the club more money, as people might well use them as part payment, along with money, for stuff they might not otherwise have bought at all.

 

Bit of a stretch that ----- the bottom line is that Loyalty Points cost the Club absolutely nothing.

[Unknown user]

I'll tell you this i'm very good in court lol.

Ah, is that why you're still free?

[Unknown user]

Bit of a stretch that ----- the bottom line is that Loyalty Points cost the Club absolutely nothing.

That's a good point, I've been thinking there's too much desire to cost the club money when surely we all want them to get more income, but I didn't know how to put it.

[PTBCAL]

Not everyone who has a ST gets rid of it if they can't go. Sometimes it's a last minute thing and sometimes people forget to do so.

 

The club cannot fully legislate for this. Personally some kind of incentive for reselling unused ST seats should be the way forward. Whether it's loyalty points (which cost nothing) or monies off club store/hospitality etc.. or even a voucher for a small reduction in next years ST (may actually convince some to renew).

 

All IMO of course.

[FTH]

How are they to know? Do we pay staff to go round noting which seats are empty? Even then, as we all know from JKB people sometimes go in but don't sit in their allocated seat.

 

There will be a log somewhere that will show all STs that have been scanned through the turnstiles on any given match day.

[Thomaso]

Not everyone who has a ST gets rid of it if they can't go. Sometimes it's a last minute thing and sometimes people forget to do so.

 

The club cannot fully legislate for this. Personally some kind of incentive for reselling unused ST seats should be the way forward. Whether it's loyalty points (which cost nothing) or monies off club store/hospitality etc.. or even a voucher for a small reduction in next years ST (may actually convince some to renew).

 

All IMO of course.

 

Better put one of these on 

 

Some on here are very precious over their Loyalty Points!

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Not everyone who has a ST gets rid of it if they can't go. Sometimes it's a last minute thing and sometimes people forget to do so.

 

The club cannot fully legislate for this. Personally some kind of incentive for reselling unused ST seats should be the way forward. Whether it's loyalty points (which cost nothing) or monies off club store/hospitality etc.. or even a voucher for a small reduction in next years ST (may actually convince some to renew).

 

All IMO of course.

They already get the loyalty points for buying the ST. Seems a bit daft to give them more for not attending. Voucher for the shop is a reasonable idea as gets them in the shop and spending. Would imagine it will just stya the same to be honest, most folk try and punt them to mates, only Kickbackers know about the return for resale option. 

[Hackney Hearts]

They already get the loyalty points for buying the ST.  

 

As others have suggested, this could be changed - 1 LP for every game the ST is used, + 1 LP for every game it's put up for resale.

 

 

only Kickbackers know about the return for resale option. 

 

 

That's the problem that's being discussed ad nauseam. There's many ways to change this, at no cost to the club.

[PTBCAL]

They already get the loyalty points for buying the ST. Seems a bit daft to give them more for not attending. Voucher for the shop is a reasonable idea as gets them in the shop and spending. Would imagine it will just stya the same to be honest, most folk try and punt them to mates, only Kickbackers know about the return for resale option.

 

Agree re LPs but I was just thinks no of the cost factor to the club

[FarmerTweedy]

Skip a few home games and you'll get the rosebery strip for free

Yeah, but you'll have missed the games!

 

Some might view that as a positive of course!

[Strachsuit]

There's got to be an error somewhere though.

 

It just can be that near full rows are simply those who don't turn up. The six or seven chunks together at the front of the main stand always gets me. Then you watch sportscene on Sunday and see so many in the Roseburn.

 

It's got to be raised with the club I reckon. Probably a simple explanation. Hopefully.

 

Craigie are you thinking of lower N, out of interest? Many seats in N remain empty as fans choose to stand further back and towards the steps. They are there, just not in their seats!

 

Oh dear i should of stuck in at school rather than leave aged 15. Sorry if i came on a bit strong but i live in the real world. I thought i was quite polite and all i was really asking for was answers to the many seats that are empty when the sold out sign goes up. I may not be as educated as some but believe me all i care about is Hearts being the best.

Let's see what Mark Waterson comes back with instead of slagging my grammer.

 

"should have"

[Francis Albert]

And so it goes on. The reason for empty seats is known. ST holders not going and not releasing. A financial or some other  incentive would help but not fully solve.

 

The reason for lots of empty seats toward the front of the stands has been explained. If you want an ST to guarantee a seat and big match tickets but know you won't be a regular attendee you are likely to buy one of the cheaper seats - front rows other than Wheatfield. And if you are in one of those cheaper seats and there are better seats that are empty, you may move to one of the more expensive seats (or the cheap ones further back).

 

The only mystery is the level of obsession about a minor issue. No-one who really wants to attend a non-Cat A  game can't do so. And the extent to  which the club loses is debatable. Demand suggests that the majority of empty seats would not be sold if all were released. And the fact that approaching sell outs results in more advanced sales means that there might not be any increase in revenue at all. Sell-outs help to sell tickets. If more people leave it to the last minute because there is no scarcity, there may be more who on the day for whatever reason don't bother.

[mitch41]

And so it goes on. The reason for empty seats is known. ST holders not going and not releasing. A financial or some other  incentive would help but not fully solve.

 

The reason for lots of empty seats toward the front of the stands has been explained. If you want an ST to guarantee a seat and big match tickets but know you won't be a regular attendee you are likely to buy one of the cheaper seats - front rows other than Wheatfield. And if you are in one of those cheaper seats and there are better seats that are empty, you may move to one of the more expensive seats (or the cheap ones further back).

 

The only mystery is the level of obsession about a minor issue. No-one who really wants to attend a non-Cat A  game can't do so. And the extent to  which the club loses is debatable. Demand suggests that the majority of empty seats would not be sold if all were released. And the fact that approaching sell outs results in more advanced sales means that there might not be any increase in revenue at all. Sell-outs help to sell tickets. If more people leave it to the last minute because there is no scarcity, there may be more who on the day for whatever reason don't bother.

I'm sorry this doesn't wash. Your telling us that fans are buying Season Tickets for big matches, so where were they when we played Celtic 

and why don't these fans who do this refuse to release their seats for resale. The loses for empty seats is not helping Hearts cash flow.

 You suggest demand for the majority of empty seats would not be sold if all were released. You know by saying this your really stating

Hearts don't need a bigger stadium.

[luckydug]

It's pretty obvious why there was even more empty PAID FOR seats last Saturday.

The weather on Saturday was dreadful and people just decided to keep dry for the day. In the pre ST days we would have been lucky to get 8000 on a day like Saturday.

The fact that so many did turn up was commendable.

Folk are over thinking this situation.

If people are unsure whether to go to the game up to the last minute then they are not going to release their seat.

Really thats all there is to it.

[Craigieboy]

Of course, the obvious thought is that ST holders aren't turning up. Did you(s) not think I'd thought of that?

 

 

Like I've repeated, rows and chunks of seats ISN'T just season tickets not turning up for the game. It can't be.

[luckydug]

Of course, the obvious thought is that ST holders aren't turning up. Did you(s) not think I'd thought of that?

 

 

Like I've repeated, rows and chunks of seats ISN'T just season tickets not turning up for the game. It can't be.

 

The club has just decided that we now have enough money and only PHM are allowed in.