The mystery of sell outs and swathes of empty seats

[Ray Gin]

I also had 2 Dundee fans sitting right next to me in the home end, who stood up and left as soon as we went 2-0 up!

 

They were joined by a few thousand Hearts fans who did the same thing.

[wavydavy]

Simply because the figures don't make sense otherwise - eg we were sold out long before yesterday's game and sold several hundred season ticket returns (going by dots which re-appeared and by posts on kickback) - yet the attendance was at least 400 short of the number of seats available even after those unsold because of segregation and poor visibility. If it was seats sold clearly there would have been over 17000 reported for yesterdays game as we had circa 16,900 available to buy and a few hundred were sold twice

 

Cheers for that.

[Buffalo Bill]

A couple of weeks ago, I released my seat back to the club because I was sitting elsewhere yesterday.

 

 

The game was a sell out, but my seat remained empty.

[crichiejambos]

Random but on attendance theme, Aberdeen second in league ,cup semi next weekend and draw just over 10k! And if they get to the final will demand half the gate yet can't sell out home games! Think same couple of years ago won cup moaned about ticket allocation then next home game scraped about 8k

[Buffalo Bill]

As someone just posted, it's unlikely to be that big of an issue next season if we have an extra 2,500 to sell. I doubt there would be any more than say, 50 fans yesterday who missed out on a ticket on the day, although that in itself was a shame as there were hundreds of empty seats dotted around. 

[Phil Dunphy]

As someone just posted, it's unlikely to be that big of an issue next season if we have an extra 2,500 to sell. I doubt there would be any more than say, 50 fans yesterday who missed out on a ticket on the day, although that in itself was a shame as there were hundreds of empty seats dotted around. 

 

As much as I do feel a small degree of sympathy for people who missed out yesterday, there's been plenty evidence over the last 2 years that walk ups on the day are going to be unlikely at best, surely if you were that keen to go to the football, you'd sort yourself out a ticket when there are some left.

 

The club are great at putting out communiques to let the fans know if there's still tickets left a couple of days before the game.

[Buffalo Bill]

As much as I do feel a small degree of sympathy for people who missed out yesterday, there's been plenty evidence over the last 2 years that walk ups on the day are going to be unlikely at best, surely if you were that keen to go to the football, you'd sort yourself out a ticket when there are some left.

 

The club are great at putting out communiques to let the fans know if there's still tickets left a couple of days before the game.

 

 

I don't disagree with that but I guess there must be some fans who, for whatever reason won't know until the day of the game if they're able to attend or not. 

 

 

But if they simply can't be arsed until the day of the game to decide well, that's different. As I said, it probably won't be an issue next season anyway.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

That's true, and it's a decent idea which at least would incentivise a few more returns which can't be a bad thing.

It will become less relevant next year I'm guessing when sell outs will be much harder unless we are chasing the league, and I do agree some better system needs to be implemented

Or a ?5 gift voucher for the shop!

[Phil Dunphy]

I don't disagree with that but I guess there must be some fans who, for whatever reason won't know until the day of the game if they're able to attend or not. 

 

 

But if they simply can't be arsed until the day of the game to decide well, that's different. As I said, it probably won't be an issue next season anyway.

 

Hopefully not. But I'd be equally happy if it was quite difficult to get tickets for Hearts games due to demand.

 

It's not so much I don't feel sympathy for missing out, I just wouldn't be getting my hopes up since we know that the vast majority of home games are all sell outs anyway.

[Meadows]

My mates wife has bought him a season ticket for his Xmas , hope he doesn't read this , it'll spoil the surprise!

[mitch41]

Hey Cade what if the problem is in the ticket office and Hearts are not only failing to let more fans watch the Hearts but losing income as well.

Sorry for boring you my wee pal.

[GarryJ-o-s]

As somebody said earlier, it's about 2.5-3% of tickets sold not attending. That's the same as somebody buying a season ticket for three seasons and missing two matches in that total time. Really not that bad at all.

[scott herbertson]

Hey Cade what if the problem is in the ticket office and Hearts are not only failing to let more fans watch the Hearts but losing income as well.

Sorry for boring you my wee pal.

 

 

Might be, but they certainly do operate the system - released mine for Ross County and there was someone in it according to my mate who usually sits next to me.

 

May have been a bad idea as it was such a crap game!

[Jambo-Fox]

Who are these people that turn up on a match day expecting to buy a ticket only to find out they can't because Hearts Supporters have already bought them all?

 

I assume if they were real supporters they would buy a ticket in advance knowing that if they could not go they would have an option to give it back to the club for re-sale ............

[Winston Ingram]

Has been discussed on here before but the club should really look hard into a system whereby non-attending season ticket holders can release their seat either for loyalty point or some cash/voucher return. Given such a high proportion of season tickets, this should be a priority (not least because Hearts can make more money). 

 

The technical complication I'd guess is making sure a season ticket barcode doesn't work for a one-off game so that seats aren't being double sold but other clubs seem able to manage this (Man City I'm sure?)...

[Boab]

Has been discussed on here before but the club should really look hard into a system whereby non-attending season ticket holders can release their seat either for loyalty point or some cash/voucher return. Given such a high proportion of season tickets, this should be a priority (not least because Hearts can make more money). 

 

The technical complication I'd guess is making sure a season ticket barcode doesn't work for a one-off game so that seats aren't being double sold but other clubs seem able to manage this (Man City I'm sure?)...

 

It's been muted before but, rightly, kicked into the long grass.

 

We simply can't have someone with more loyalty points than someone who has attented more home games. It's ridiculous, i'm sure you'll agree.

 

Again with vouchers...you can't make ten games....you get ten vouchers ?

 

Let's put this to bed and , if anything, pursue the route of reminding fans, by e-mail preferably, of the address to contact to make your seat available.

[Hackney Hearts]

To be really effective it would need to be a much simpler process.

 

 

How hard is a copy and paste an email? Fill in the appropriate details once, then use it as many times as you need (just change the team we're playing). Address is: [email protected]  

You'll get a reply (probably from Emily) thanking you. 

 

[Please feel free to use this one, no charge...]

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

As I won?t be able to attend the match against XXXX tomorrow, I would like to release my season ticket seat for re-sale.

 

 

Wheatfield Stand - Block X

 

Row X     Seat XX

 

 

Many thanks

 

 

A. Jambo

 

 

Cust Ref No. XXXXXX

 

 

 

 

And it's probably best to put your real name, rather than A Jambo. (Unless you are actually called Alex Jambo or similar)

[Winston Ingram]

It's been muted before but, rightly, kicked into the long grass.

 

We simply can't have someone with more loyalty points than someone who has attented more home games. It's ridiculous, i'm sure you'll agree.

 

Again with vouchers...you can't make ten games....you get ten vouchers ?

 

Let's put this to bed and , if anything, pursue the route of reminding fans, by e-mail preferably, of the address to contact to make your seat available.

 

Granted, loyalty points maybe awkward but a financial return shouldn't be. Even your loyalty comparison doesn't work because we will receive 3, for example, for an away fixture in Inverness where no money goes to Hearts. For money/voucher, it need only be a tenner/percentage of seat value but it encourages people to release the seat via a proper system. The club benefits from selling the seat "again." 

 

Don't see the issue with people who shell out at the start of the season being given a small return if they can't make games. Everyone wins, really. And as I said, other clubs manage this fine. 

[Winston Ingram]

How hard is a copy and paste an email? Fill in the appropriate details once, then use it as many times as you need (just change the team we're playing). Address is: [email protected]  

You'll get a reply (probably from Emily) thanking you. 

 

[Please feel free to use this one, no charge...]

 

 

 

 

 

And it's probably best to put your real name, rather than A Jambo. (Unless you are actually called Alex Jambo or similar)

 

The problem here is continued evidence that the club doesn't actually sell the seat. There is no proper system in place here (which is effective for either side).

[Boab]

Granted, loyalty points maybe awkward but a financial return shouldn't be. Even your loyalty comparison doesn't work because we will receive 3, for example, for an away fixture in Inverness where no money goes to Hearts. For money/voucher, it need only be a tenner/percentage of seat value but it encourages people to release the seat via a proper system. The club benefits from selling the seat "again." 

 

Don't see the issue with people who shell out at the start of the season being given a small return if they can't make games. Everyone wins, really. And as I said, other clubs manage this fine. 

 

My loyalty point comparison was for home games only......obviously !

 

Also not sure about a financial return for non-attendance....christ, if it was a tenner, some people could attend only half of home games and get a good chunk of their season ticket money back...even if it was in voucher form.

 

Nah, stop this talk now...it ain't going to happen.

[Hackney Hearts]

The problem here is continued evidence that the club doesn't actually sell the seat. 

 

They seem to sell mine. It will come up on eTickets shortly after I've had the reply from the ticket office, and then fairly quickly disappears again. 

 

 

 

I suppose there may be cases where someone buys a re-sold ST and then finds out they can't make it to the game - not much you can do about that I guess.

[scott herbertson]

They seem to sell mine. It will come up on eTickets shortly after I've had the reply from the ticket office, and then fairly quickly disappears again. Unless they're just pretending?

 

 

and mine - though usually if i don't go it goes to my brother or a mate,whenever I've returned it its gone to somebody

[Winston Ingram]

They seem to sell mine. It will come up on eTickets shortly after I've had the reply from the ticket office, and then fairly quickly disappears again. Unless they're just pretending?

 

Fair enough. Recall several posters on here saying this doesn't happen. 

[scott herbertson]

Fair enough. Recall several posters on here saying this doesn't happen. 

 

BB

 above saying his  was a case in point. May just  be admin mistakes occasionally

[Hackney Hearts]

Fair enough. Recall several posters on here saying this doesn't happen. 

 

I've seen posters (further up this thread in fact) saying that the seat doesn't get USED - but that's different from saying it doesn't get sold, as we've also had posters admitting that they don't use their own seats but go and sit - or stand - somewhere else.

[jamboman9]

Loyalty Points? Vouchers? Discounts? The only incentive a Hearts supporter should need for using 2 minutes of their time to release a seat is knowing their club will benefit financially. End of!

[Winston Ingram]

Loyalty Points? Vouchers? Discounts? The only incentive a Hearts supporter should need for using 2 minutes of their time to release a seat is knowing their club will benefit financially. End of!

 

Meanwhile in the real world....

[michaeljambo22]

can we not have a fixed post on here were we fans can pass on there free seats

[Hackney Hearts]

Meanwhile in the real world....

 

I know what you mean, but -

 

It's in the real world that the over 8,000 individuals/households pay direct debits into FOH, it's in the real world that many people bought STs just to support the club financially despite not being able to get to any matches... 

 

It's not a massive issue, but this is something that costs nothing, and takes virtually no time - yet will benefit Hearts and Hearts supporters. Yes, there may be a few ST holders who don't care about that, but I suspect there's a lot more who would care, and who would re-sell, or donate, if the options were more widely mentioned (i.e. not just on JKB!).

[Winston Ingram]

 

I know what you mean, but -

 

It's in the real world that the over 8,000 individuals/households pay direct debits into FOH, it's in the real world that many people bought STs just to support the club financially despite not being able to get to any matches... 

 

It's not a massive issue, but this is something that costs nothing, and takes virtually no time - yet will benefit Hearts and Hearts supporters. Yes, there may be a few ST holders who don't care about that, but I suspect there's a lot more who would care, and who would re-sell, or donate, if the options were more widely mentioned (i.e. not just on JKB!).

 

 

You have raised an interesting issue actually. What about a % of resold ticket being donated by club to FOH? 

[scott herbertson]

You have raised an interesting issue actually. What about a % of resold ticket being donated by club to FOH? 

 

 

That good suggestion was made a couple of pages ago. I also suggested maybe to Big Hearts - esp. if there are gift aid tax benefits

[chrisyboy7]

The club should email all supporter a few days before a game that if they want to release a theirs seat to email at the following address.

Simples.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[trago13]

Your monetary contribution can be replaced by someone who will actually come along and support the team.

Well I can do better than that actually (as can quite a few others), as stated previously, I gift my seat back to the club. My contribution times two.

 

As for the comment about actually coming along to support the team. I've earned my stripes, for many years I was one of just few few thousand who actually came along and supported the team. I'm not looking for a chocolate watch as reward, but I think I've earned the right to pay for a season up front and not turn up if circumstances dictate.

[151]

The bottom of section Z is only ever half full at most. Seems very strange. As you say surely that many have bought season tickets and not turned up.

Was going to post the exact same - Z lower had just as many empty seats as taken ones yesterday.

[Zico]

The sooner Hearts ban all season ticket holders, the better. Then all the real fans can go.

 

WHAT IS GOING ON? THINK ABOUT IT CADE!!!

[gjcc]

I think its shockin. The club ar obvz no fussed aboot making cash coz they stoap selling tickets when theirs are obvz still sum left. No guid enuff Ken wat ahm sain.

 

Ahm cancellin ma direct debit intul the bams sort it oot.

[Bauld]

Surely out of 16200 people about 500 empty seats would be perfectly normal?

 

 

 

There's a massive list of reasons why some people might not be able to attend.

 

 

There's probably some arsehole at yesterday's game wiped out 5-6 people for next week with a single sneeze. Just because he didn't cover his/mouth.

[jambocub]

Just go enjoy yourselves..can't believe people actually worry who doesn't turn up.(after paying for their seat)

[jambo1975]

They were joined by a few thousand Hearts fans who did the same thing.

The amount of folk that left when the 2nd went in was staggering. I know it's takes a bit time to get out the ground but jeezzo at least stay and shown the team a bit appreciation for a good win!

[Saint Jambo]

A couple of weeks ago, I released my seat back to the club because I was sitting elsewhere yesterday.

 

 

The game was a sell out, but my seat remained empty.

 

Probably sold but the buyer was then able to take a seat elsewhere in the ground. Yesterday I had a seat in the Roseburn, but moved at half-time to be beside friends where the season ticket holders hadn't turned up. I could as easily have done that at the start of the match. 

[robroy1874]

Loyalty Points? Vouchers? Discounts? The only incentive a Hearts supporter should need for using 2 minutes of their time to release a seat is knowing their club will benefit financially. End of!

Quite right

[Tommy Brown]

Was going to post the exact same - Z lower had just as many empty seats as taken ones yesterday.

The year the club decked up the pricing really badly (can't remember the name for it). I bought my ST in section z as my N3 seat was about ?60 dearer. But the view was dreadful. I would wait until 10 mins in and move into another seat elsewhere.

But the games against Liverpool and against the muppets you could not see another seat available, genuine sell outs.

People decide some games are worth missing, I miss a few per season and normally give my ticket to mates.

[Beast Boy]

See the other thread on the terrace, titled: "remember this"? Well, that "call to arms" prompted a good few people who were unable to go to games to purchase tickets anyway. Are people honestly suggesting that they should now be rewarded for that by "banning them"? Seems a bit ungrateful to me.

[luckydug]

When people used to pay at the gate the attendances used to vary greatly according to the weather.

I think that some people are still put of by rotten weather only difference now is they have already paid their money for a ST . It's their choice and there might come the day when the club is glad of the money up front.

Another thing to remember is when the club was on the brink Jambo's from all over the world were buying STs as a way of helping the club. Many will have continued renewing every year in the belief they are helping the club. So it's a bit ironic for some joker to post on JKB that they shouldn't be allowed to renew.

[Buffalo Bill]

If you see any clips of games at Tyencastle from about 2000-2005, there are always loads of empty rows of seats in the lower parts of the stands. At least now these seats are mostly bought, and occasionally used. Having 13,000 season ticket holders is a recent phenomenon for Hearts. Our average crowd last season was about 16,400. That's a lot; more than the likes of Bristol City, Charlton, Bolton, Blackburn. 16,000+ is similar in size to the crowds we enjoyed in 1985/86 and 87/88 but vastly different in terms of how we attended.

 

Back then, there was a lot of polarisation in attendances week to week. You could have 28,000 v Rangers one week, and 8,000 v Motherwell the next. Yet not many people had season tickets. I used to go week on week with friends but none of us had a season ticket. Last season, all our league games had crowds between 16 and 17,000, apart from two which were just below 16,000. It's evened itself out now.

 

Having a season ticket now is a bit like having a gym membership of a full Sky Sports package at home. It's a nice thing for some people to have but they don't always use it. 

 

There's probably a feeling now that if you miss a game, it's no big deal. There will be another one along in a couple of weeks. 

 

In saying all that, I think next season, our average crowd will top 18,000.

 

.

[Homme]

Lots of overseas fans bought ST's when it went tits up and are obviously holding on to them. Would be nice to se them resold if they can't make it.

 

But having almost every seat 'sold' every week is some achievement.

[Fort Vallance]

I get there are always going to be some that don't go for one reason or another. The mystery for me is that it seems to be groups together, or a dozen in the same row. I can't work that out.

[scott herbertson]

I get there are always going to be some that don't go for one reason or another. The mystery for me is that it seems to be groups together, or a dozen in the same row. I can't work that out.

 

 

possibly a group from out of town with one driver!

[romanov apologist]

".................swathes of empty seats"   - really ?? !

 

Was this headline made up in LEGOLAND ??!

 

Do fans now come to Tynecastle disguised as people sitting in seats as opposed to being disguised as empty seats ?!

[Mouse]

A friend of mine has 3 kids, 11, 5 & 2. They all have season tickets however the 2 yo has never been and the 5 yo makes every other match, weather and kickoff time permitting.

He's done this because it was the only way he could guarantee 4 seats together in future, thinking about it there must be other supporters doing this as well.

The new stand can't come soon enough.