Celtic & Sevco bid to join English league. Again. (merged)

[Shanks]

I still enjoyed the league without rangers so don't see why I wouldn't enjoy it without Celtic. Bigotry would be slashed by 99% in Scottish football in an instance

[Bazzas right boot]

But it's interesting right now, as a monopolized league?

 

Very good.

 

Wait until Celtic win it for the next 15 years, we will be screaming for Rangers to challenge and bring it back the good old days of when 2 teams could win the league, never mind 5 or 6!

[Bazzas right boot]

I still enjoyed the league without rangers so don't see why I wouldn't enjoy it without Celtic. Bigotry would be slashed by 99% in Scottish football in an instance

 

 

If anything it was more enjoyable.

[Generic Username]

Wait until Celtic win it for the next 15 years, we will be screaming for Rangers to challenge and bring it back the good old days of when 2 teams could win the league, never mind 5 or 6!

 

Precisely.

 

The novelty of English football will soon wear off for them when they struggle to get out of League One or are getting pumped by Barnsley for the 8th time on the bounce.

 

When we won the cup in 1998 no one said "well thank Christ it was Rangers we beat because otherwise, you know, it wouldn't really have counted"

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Precisely.

 

The novelty of English football will soon wear off for them when they struggle to get out of League One or are getting pumped by Barnsley for the 8th time on the bounce.

 

When we won the cup in 1998 no one said "well thank Christ it was Rangers we beat because otherwise, you know, it wouldn't really have counted"

 

Do we expunge that win against Gretna in 2006 from the history books?

 

[Generic Username]

 

Do we expunge that win against Gretna in 2006 from the history books?

 

 

Good thing we beat Celtic en-route to the cup win over Hibs as well.

[Gambo]

Just not true, our biggest average crowd for decades was when we were in the championship

 

Look at Hibs, Utd were the same when they were down last time

 

Aberdeen can must 40k when there's a chance to win something.

 

When there is a genuine chance of winning fans will come, in big numbers as it generates excitement and interest. Our league doesn't have that.

You are talking about times when Rangers and Celtic were part of the set up.

[Martin]

I just hope this is true, goodbye and good riddance.

 

It would be the best thing to ever happen to the Scottish game, it would open up so many opportunities for teams to compete for the league and I can't believe some folk here are saying how bad it would be for the game without the Old Firm.

 

The league as it stands is boring, it's been boring for the last 30 years, there is no competition but yet some people want to hold onto that despite being to the detriment of Hearts and all our supporters over the years, it's ridiculous.

 

Look at how strong our attendances are, then look at the potential of others. If us, Aberdeen, Dundee United, Hibs were challenging for the league, we would be packing out away grounds in more numbers than the Old Firm currently do. That's just for starters in a financial way.

 

Too much brainwashing from the Glasgow media about football here without the Old Firm, which is totally disrespectful to every other team and the fans. Kids are not going to start supporting them when they are mid table in England, if anything, kids would be more likely to support the local teams because once again, there would be a chance of winning things.

 

Look at the attendances of the Premiership teams, the rest of us go knowing fine well that we don't have a hope of winning the league, are we all going to say let's not bother now the league is competitive again? No. Look at Hibs attendances this year, it's miles up compared to normal, all because they have a chance of winning the league. That's what football is about, not having to play second fiddle to anyone else, it's about challenging for trophies.

[portobellojambo1]

Don't get me wrong I agree with you in terms of a "Scottish" league but that for me is the issue, without the OF it basically isn't a Scottish league. We'd effectively be having a 2nd rate competition to find out the 3rd best team in Scotland and any achievement would be hollow as a result.

 

So given the choice of being 2nd rate pretend Scottish champion or playing in a British league sadly id take the 2nd.

 

 

Whoever is left in the league I don't care. If HMFC then won that league the last thing I'd treat it as would be a pretend win. I enjoy going to the football, enjoy cheering on HMFC every week and even Dingwall is within reach, a good day out and affordable. I've done Southampton to watch HMFC within the UK and fun it was not. Leaving Edinburgh late on a Friday night, arriving in London at the crack of dawn, racing across London to catch a train for a 2.5 hour journey to Southampton was knackering. 2 hours in the pub, watch the game and then begin the whole journey in reverse and your weekend is gone and on Monday you are still goosed. Although passionately British I have no desire to see HMFC join the English leagues, it does very much smack of Old Firmism, for me I'd much prefer the pleasure and glory of watching my club win their main domestic competition than gain an additional share of Sky's income.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

You are talking about times when Rangers and Celtic were part of the set up.

Funny. The vermin aren't playing us or Rangers 2.0 this season and their crowds have, er, gone up!

[Martin]

More competitive yes, with zero interest.

Absolute nonsense. How is supporting Hearts more interesting with the Old Firm?

[John Findlay]

If(and I very much doubt it) they were allowed to move to the English league. Then they go lock stock and barrel. None of their teams from their lowest to their highest should be permitted to play in any Scottish competitions. They go and never darken our doors again.

[Gambo]

It will be like the Irn-Bru cup or whatever it is called......zero interest when big clubs not involved.

 

There will be less interest imo if big clubs not involved, let's go with them and take Aberdeen and Hibs to.

[John Findlay]

Whoever is left in the league I don't care. If HMFC then won that league the last thing I'd treat it as would be a pretend win. I enjoy going to the football, enjoy cheering on HMFC every week and even Dingwall is within reach, a good day out and affordable. I've done Southampton to watch HMFC within the UK and fun it was not. Leaving Edinburgh late on a Friday night, arriving in London at the crack of dawn, racing across London to catch a train for a 2.5 hour journey to Southampton was knackering. 2 hours in the pub, watch the game and then begin the whole journey in reverse and your weekend is gone and on Monday you are still goosed. Although passionately British I have no desire to see HMFC join the English leagues, it does very much smack of Old Firmism, for me I'd much prefer the pleasure and glory of watching my club win their main domestic competition than gain an additional share of Sky's income.

I echo these sentiments fully.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

It will be like the Irn-Bru cup or whatever it is called......zero interest when big clubs not involved.

 

There will be less interest imo if big clubs not involved, let's go with them and take Aberdeen and Hibs to.

Yay. Away days to Ebbsfleet!

 

[CollyWolly]

If(and I very much doubt it) they were allowed to move to the English league. Then they go lock stock and barrel. None of their teams from their lowest to their highest should be permitted to play in any Scottish competitions. They go and never darken our doors again.

More importantly. No one with any connection to them holds any kind of office in Scottish football administration

[DH1986]

It will be like the Irn-Bru cup or whatever it is called......zero interest when big clubs not involved.

 

There will be less interest imo if big clubs not involved, let's go with them and take Aberdeen and Hibs to.

 

Would you stop going to matches ?

[DETTY29]

If they go a legally binding contract they don't come back.

 

England can be stuck with them.

[Bazzas right boot]

You are talking about times when Rangers and Celtic were part of the set up.

I'm out.

[Bazzas right boot]

Whoever is left in the league I don't care. If HMFC then won that league the last thing I'd treat it as would be a pretend win. I enjoy going to the football, enjoy cheering on HMFC every week and even Dingwall is within reach, a good day out and affordable. I've done Southampton to watch HMFC within the UK and fun it was not. Leaving Edinburgh late on a Friday night, arriving in London at the crack of dawn, racing across London to catch a train for a 2.5 hour journey to Southampton was knackering. 2 hours in the pub, watch the game and then begin the whole journey in reverse and your weekend is gone and on Monday you are still goosed. Although passionately British I have no desire to see HMFC join the English leagues, it does very much smack of Old Firmism, for me I'd much prefer the pleasure and glory of watching my club win their main domestic competition than gain an additional share of Sky's income.

Agreed on all but the British part.

 

If they go, there will be parties in every other stadium bar maybe Killie and St mirren.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

You're probably right though if Scotland kept a champions league place it would be interesting to see if we could progress

I bet the SFA would grovel to keep them in the cups etc

No never. If they leave they must leave 100%. No Scottish Cup/League Cup games. No colt type teams being left to play in our league or cups. GTTF forever.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

You're probably right though if Scotland kept a champions league place it would be interesting to see if we could progress

I bet the SFA would grovel to keep them in the cups etc

No never. If they leave they must leave 100%. No Scottish Cup/League Cup games. No colt type teams being left to play in our league or cups. GTTF forever.

[DETTY29]

No never. If they leave they must leave 100%. No Scottish Cup/League Cup games. No colt type teams being left to play in our league or cups. GTTF forever.

100%.

[Bazzas right boot]

When the internet takes over tv as the most popular medium ( right term?), the whole things going to crash and burn, hope Celtic and rangers are right in about it when it happens.

[scott herbertson]

No never. If they leave they must leave 100%. No Scottish Cup/League Cup games. No colt type teams being left to play in our league or cups. GTTF forever.

 

 

That was my point - although they should have to leave totally I bet the GFA would bust a gut to keep them involved in some way, and who's to say the kilmarnocks and st johnstone's of this world wouldn't vote for it

[busby1985]

Just the 500k?

 

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/exclusive-more-one-million-scottish-5118061

Found the link.

 

http://www.thefootballlife.co.uk/post/145009173811/the-tv-review-of-the-spfl-season-201516

[skwif1]

I will say this yet again:- Cut them loose and throw them out. We wont miss them. I have always said that after the first season without the Weeg Biggots  when Team A wins the league, Team B wins the BIG cup and An other Team gets the Diddy cup .THEN--- the next season possibly 3 different teams win the trophies the crowds will return to the stands. I think our game can do without the UGLY SISTERS and flourish. Chuck them out as soon as possible..............PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thunderstruck]

They would also need to guarantee that both cheeks were in the same league. Look at Celtic in top league without their "traditional" rival - significant attendance reductions, low investment and makeweight management.

 

They want each other, they need each other; nothing less will do.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

That was my point - although they should have to leave totally I bet the GFA would bust a gut to keep them involved in some way, and who's to say the kilmarnocks and st johnstone's of this world wouldn't vote for it

I knew what you meant. I just wanted to get my tuppence worth in while agreeing with you. GTTF forever.

If they mention it then a "game into disrepute" charge should be on the way. Yeah right.

[Worthing Jambo]

The Scottish league could be kept and a play off system against say, English south and English north divisions, would give the OF, and anyone else, a pathway to the English Championship.

Surely it is only a matter of time before a European super league takes the top English teams away so there would scope for a British top two divisions.

Like it or not,teams like Brighton are now miles ahead of Hearts in financial terms, with both having a similar catchment.

I just wonder what is said in the Hearts boardroom when the discussion of what the next step is to take the club forward?

At the moment it is only realistically to be behind the OF with the odd cup win.

If there were a few other Scottish teams in the same position as us in, terms of attendances, I think the league would be healthier and better equipped to take the odd few points off Celtic that would make a challenge possible.

At the moment only Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen could achieve that with the other clubs seemingly going the other way.

Along with the OF, is 5 teams enough?

I wonder if there is any appetite in the boardrooms of Scotland to work at making the existing league more attractive or if they are too preoccupied with looking over the fence?

[The Don]

Comparing Sevco having to start again from the Scottish 2nd division and both the OF leaving permanently is crazy. Everyone knew Sevco would be back up sooner or later, only the deluded thought otherwise. There was always still a chance of drawing them in cup competitions.

 

For many including myself, seeing the back of the OF would be great but only for a while, after so long they would be

Missed, their fans would t be

Missed that's for sure, but the elated feeling of beating them and ramming it right up their arrogant arses would be missed.

 

It would never stop me supporting Hearts and the same with any PHM and we'd still be delighted and party, but winning the league without an OF just wouldn't have that same feeling about it.

 

As for us following them to England I genuinely think that would never happen, but if there was ever a chance we should take it.

 

 

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[socrates82]

I enjoyed the Championship without Celtic and the Premiership without Rangers. If Dundee Utd had been in the Championship instead of Rangers and Hibs in the Premiership instead of Celtic I would have enjoyed those last two seasons even more - especially as we would have been challenging for the Premiership title along with 2 or 3 other teams.

 

Wouldn't miss them one bit and when you look at teams down south that are as big names with massive stadiums and supports - but are still outwith the EPL - it's no guarantee the OF would make it to the top league or be able to establish themselves.

 

Celtic seem to pin their hopes on their Irish identity giving them a global appeal, but as Tom English pointed out, they couldn't fill a stadium in Ireland for their recent "glamour friendly". That boat has sailed for Celtic - other teams have been able to build up a global appeal as big if not bigger than theirs.

 

Rangers would be in even more trouble. They have zero global appeal beyond expats in Australia with pics of the Queen on their walls.

 

Agree with others - no chance their colt teams should play in our league.That would make us effectively an U23 or reserve league.

[Bazzas right boot]

Why anyone would want us to mincing about the lower reaches of English football rather than challenging for the league without the OF up here is beyond me.

[Bazzas right boot]

Comparing Sevco having to start again from the Scottish 2nd division and both the OF leaving permanently is crazy. Everyone knew Sevco would be back up sooner or later, only the deluded thought otherwise. There was always still a chance of drawing them in cup competitions.

 

For many including myself, seeing the back of the OF would be great but only for a while, after so long they would be

Missed, their fans would t be

Missed that's for sure, but the elated feeling of beating them and ramming it right up their arrogant arses would be missed.

 

It would never stop me supporting Hearts and the same with any PHM and we'd still be delighted and party, but winning the league without an OF just wouldn't have that same feeling about it.

 

As for us following them to England I genuinely think that would never happen, but if there was ever a chance we should take it.

 

 

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What was crazy was the forecast of doom and disaster.

[amadjambo]

Why anyone would want us to mincing about the lower reaches of English football rather than challenging for the league without the OF up here is beyond me.

And it is beyond me why anyone would think our league would be worth winning should the OF leave. It would also bring into the question the wisdom of spending millions to build a new stand too.

 

Obviously many of you disagree. No problem having different opinions. I do wonder how many opinions are clouded by a hatred of the OF though.

[Sraman]

The way I see it, those who would benefit most from any Scottish club moving to England would be the English FA, with the Scottish FA losing most. Yay! Let's give our hard earned cash to a club that contributes to the (Auld) Enemies camp. That's bound to help.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

What would Celtic/Newco do to change their song book? Or would home games still keep the same repertoire?

Always said English police forces are not going to allow these numb nuts to roam the countryside every weekend for 45 weekends a year. Will never be allowed. Manchester city center troubles would be nothing compared to what would happen against an English teams fans.

[john brownlee]

The way I see it, those who would benefit most from any Scottish club moving to England would be the English FA, with the Scottish FA losing most. Yay! Let's give our hard earned cash to a club that contributes to the (Auld) Enemies camp. That's bound to help.

They are as much Scottish as Watneys red barrel and Guinness.

The sooner they leave the better. Our premier league was better without newhuns now let's double that and kick both cheeks out.

However I still can't see it happening. GFA will do everything in their power to keep the bigot twins here in Scotland.

 

 

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[jumpship]

Would love Scotland's shame to head south.

 

The thing that get me is when old firm fans say stupid crap like "imagine what we could do with the millions you get in the EPL" The same could be said for any club round the world given money like that..

 

Also I can see the big clubs in England, France, Spain Italy and Germany saying.. " if Scottish clubs can join the EPL why can't we all join the EPL.

 

Next step Super league.. Old firm left behind again..

[The Don]

And it is beyond me why anyone would think our league would be worth winning should the OF leave. It would also bring into the question the wisdom of spending millions to build a new stand too.

 

Obviously many of you disagree. No problem having different opinions. I do wonder how many opinions are clouded by a hatred of the OF though.

Last paragraph nails it. The blind hatred people have stops them from hearing or seeing the truth.

 

We all enjoyed the Championship because it was a novelty we enjoyed the SPL last year without Sevco as it was a novelty, we would still enjoy it for a few more years without them or both of them however like all novelties they wear off.

 

 

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[CollyWolly]

And it is beyond me why anyone would think our league would be worth winning should the OF leave. It would also bring into the question the wisdom of spending millions to build a new stand too.

 

Obviously many of you disagree. No problem having different opinions. I do wonder how many opinions are clouded by a hatred of the OF though.

I'm in this camp. Utterly meaningless winning the Scottish league when we could be having a pretty exciting adventure progressing through the leagues down south (I have no doubt we would progress to the Championship at least). Its all a hypothetical at the moment though with little chance of it coming off, especially coming off to include us.

[letsalldothebeattie]

Can't see it happening it's something they have pushed for for years.

 

But if it could happen and if they want away so desperately let them go. I won't miss them. Would create a better and more competitive league up here without them.

 

 

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[Sraman]

Last paragraph nails it. The blind hatred people have stops them from hearing or seeing the truth.

 

We all enjoyed the Championship because it was a novelty we enjoyed the SPL last year without Sevco as it was a novelty, we would still enjoy it for a few more years without them or both of them however like all novelties they wear off.

 

 

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What a load of rubbish. The top league in Scotland will always be worth winning, no matter who is in it.

[i8hibsh]

Without them, we would still get a qualifier place to the Champions league.  Top 3 teams would get into Europe probably. 

[Gambo]

Would you stop going to matches ?

No, would follow Hearts anywhere in any league. Prefer to win a league/cup that has the old firm in it in Scotland.

 

If a British League becomes a possibility (that is what it would be if the OF were to join), would you not want Hearts to be involved?

[Gambo]

What a load of rubbish. The top league in Scotland will always be worth winning, no matter who is in it.

Not really if there was a British League on the go that we were not involved in.

[doctor jambo]

I'm in this camp. Utterly meaningless winning the Scottish league when we could be having a pretty exciting adventure progressing through the leagues down south (I have no doubt we would progress to the Championship at least). Its all a hypothetical at the moment though with little chance of it coming off, especially coming off to include us.

As  Hearts fan I would love to win  a league no matter who was in it.

At the moment you face 2 things- potentially NEVER winning the league again, NEVER make the Champions League

 

Or the OF leave and both become realistic. I feel as keen a rivalry with Aberdeen and Dundee Utd and Hibs as I do with rantic.

Hibs attendances have soared because they are WINNING

[DH1986]

No, would follow Hearts anywhere in any league. Prefer to win a league/cup that has the old firm in it in Scotland.

 

If a British League becomes a possibility (that is what it would be if the OF were to join), would you not want Hearts to be involved?

 

So if your interest won't wane what makes you think it will for others ?

 

I'm not sure I would tbh....I think there would be more danger of the supporters losing interest if we moved down south and disappeared completely off the football radar. Which is what would happen imo.

[Sraman]

Not really if there was a British League on the go that we were not involved in.

 

Not really if there was a British League on the go that we were not involved in.

 

Yes it would, "no matter who is in it".

[The Don]

What a load of rubbish. The top league in Scotland will always be worth winning, no matter who is in it.

Not if there isn't any prize for doing so it won't.

 

The League cup has been devalued for years to the point of it being called the diddy cup. Exactly what will happen to the SPL, yeah we still want to win it but it doesn't have the same oomph as the Scottish cup.

 

There will still be sponsorship money and TV money but no where near the same amount. Sponsors pay money for the advertising, for their product/name to be shown and the more that name is shown in TV and the media, the more fans to buy products etc the more they will pay. It's the basic principle of marketing and doesn't require a rocket science degree to work out. The OF like it or not sell TV they generate a bigger audience they have a bigger fan base. Therefore can generate bigger more lucrative sponsorship and TV deals.

 

Our fan base and that of the other clubs is not going to increase because the bigot brothers bugger off to England, so unless there was something major and interesting to happen in Scotland that would generate an interest the money will dry up as well.

 

 

 

 

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