Celtic & Sevco bid to join English league. Again. (merged)

[Hearts007]

Buffalo Bill, on 29 Aug 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

I think Ranger and Celtic fans would settle for the 5th tier if it got them a foothold into England. For a start, they would be going head to head with each other to win the league and the lure of the Premiership would be worth the journey through the leagues. Rangers 2.0 coped with doing it in Scotland, so I'm sure they'd be willing to do it in England, where in a couple of years they'd be facing clubs comparable to our own top flight sides.

 

Some people think they'd struggle to compete in the English Premiership but I reckon they'd both be top 10 sides in time.

 

I hate them both but that's the way I see it.

 

As for Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc. We'd just have to get on with it without them. If they leave, they leave. No skin of my nose.

But what type of players would they attract in a 5th div and upwards?

[DxB Hearts]

Financially the owners would be more than happy to prop them up for 5-10 years as an old firm club in the 2nd tier of English football would be worth a fortune.

 

I for one hope they go but on the understanding that they go, never come back and don't have any claim or influence over the Scottish game.

 

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[Beast Boy]

But what type of players would they attract in a 5th div and upwards?

Probably all the best young Scottish one's.

[doctor jambo]

Best thing ever if it happened!

There is a lot of arrogance about the proposal

 

1- The OF would not ascend to the EPL straight away- that would mean that out the 3 promotion spots in each league they would get 2- shouldering past the likes of Leeds, Newcastle, the Sheffield duo and so on

2- the Championship will soon have several teams with parachute payments that will make getting past them a hell of a challenge

3-Rangers couldn't make SCOTLAND's top flight in straight seasons

 

4- Hibs crowds are bigger with no OF in the league- why ? They are winning - it actually does not matter who against.

The OF leave Scottish grounds would be rammed- you could see a League Title being won!

[Deevers]

100% go. **** right off.

Re 2nd sides in the league and entry to the Scottish Cup. No way Pedro. There would have to be a mass organised movement from all other fans to prevent it. Every fan would need to pressurise their own clubs into kicking that particular idea into deep space. **** right off again.

 

This 100%. If they do leave then that's it they leave nothing behind in any of our leagues.

[Hearts007]

The Earl of Mothsbery, on 29 Aug 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

Probably all the best young Scottish one's.

that would not be enough to be promoted up through every div and guys who are in there late 20"s would probably never see the EPL even if they won every div each year

[The Don]

I think Ranger and Celtic fans would settle for the 5th tier if it got them a foothold into England. For a start, they would be going head to head with each other to win the league and the lure of the Premiership would be worth the journey through the leagues. Rangers 2.0 coped with doing it in Scotland, so I'm sure they'd be willing to do it in England, where in a couple of years they'd be facing clubs comparable to our own top flight sides.

 

Some people think they'd struggle to compete in the English Premiership but I reckon they'd both be top 10 sides in time.

 

I hate them both but that's the way I see it.

 

As for Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen etc. We'd just have to get on with it without them. If they leave, they leave. No skin of my nose.

How I see it as well.

 

People are blinkered by their hatred for both of them they can't see the bigger picture. Both the OF are two of the biggest supported clubs in the world whether people like that or not it's fact. Rangers at one time and maybe still do were in the Guiness world record book for having the biggest supporters club in the world. In Canada the supporters club membership was 130,000 that was way back in the 80/90's

 

TV and sponsorship would be queuing to back them if they got into England, and based in their size and potential I agree would definitely be top 10 EPL easily. As for any higher that would only depend on their managers etc as income would not be the problem, not with fan base, merchandise, Sponsorships, and the money in the EPL they would get.

 

 

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[maltese jambo]

Please go and never again come back.

[frankblack]

How I see it as well.

 

People are blinkered by their hatred for both of them they can't see the bigger picture. Both the OF are two of the biggest supported clubs in the world whether people like that or not it's fact. Rangers at one time and maybe still do were in the Guiness world record book for having the biggest supporters club in the world. In Canada the supporters club membership was 130,000 that was way back in the 80/90's

 

TV and sponsorship would be queuing to back them if they got into England, and based in their size and potential I agree would definitely be top 10 EPL easily. As for any higher that would only depend on their managers etc as income would not be the problem, not with fan base, merchandise, Sponsorships, and the money in the EPL they would get.

 

 

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The simple fact is that they aren't English, and they have no links to English football, and the league there doesn't need them in any way.

 

They have a weaker case now for joining the league down south given the fact that Sevco are a NewCo from a bankrupt former club and Celtic's form in Europe has been atrocious.  They will get laughed at again for this proposal.

[busby1985]

I'd love to see the viewing figures for this Saturday when the old firm derby goes up against the Manchester derby. I'll guarantee the Manc derby world wide draws 10 times at least more viewers than the self proclaimed greatest derby in the world.

 

The English don't give two shits about them and their global draw is nowhere near the teams in the EPL. With a minimum of 4 years without real cash they'd be so far behind the championship teams never mind the epl teams they'd be completely irrelevant.

 

as for this Atlantic league they can stick that where the sun don't shine!

Last seasons semi final had 500k viewers, it clashed with West Ham Leicester which had 900k. The old firm is a myth. We live in the Truman show where we are all brain washed into believing we can't survive without them. It's Stockholm syndrome. Let them go and let the pieces fall where they will. Am going to use hibs here as an example. They are getting their biggest home crowds in years, why? Cause they are going to win the league. A league minus the old firm. People are interested as they wanna see their team be successful. The bigger clubs would survive, their fans would insure it. The lesser clubs, Ross county, itc, Hamilton etc may have to drop to part time, so be it.

 

If 20 years ago, you'd said that the top flight in English football would excist minus Derby/Leeds/Notts Forrest/Ipswich you'd have been laughed out the pub. Derby/Notts Forrest/Ipswich/Leeds all have arguably bigger European pedigree than The old firm. 10 years ago if you'd said Man City would've been arguably the 3rd/4th biggest club in Europe you'd have been laughed out the pub. Things change. I will never understand why this country fears change so much.

[The Don]

The simple fact is that they aren't English, and they have no links to English football, and the league there doesn't need them in any way.

 

They have a weaker case now for joining the league down south given the fact that Sevco are a NewCo from a bankrupt former club and Celtic's form in Europe has been atrocious. They will get laughed at again for this proposal.

I agree I genuinely think the English clubs would vote against them joining, they don't need them from a financial point. It would be nothing but greed and stupidity to allow them in because they might pull a few extra quid but it's loose pocket change or might see it as a novelty.

 

That is our opinion on them joining and doesn't take away from the facts I posted though which are a separate issue.

 

 

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[Jammy T]

This would be great for Hearts. I'm all for it.

[Jamhammer]

I can't see them ever getting into England due to the potential crowd trouble and sectarian baggage they would surely bring but can see both getting invited to a European league which is surely coming. I wouldn't miss em if they went and don't imagine they'd really trouble the top teams down there for a good few years. I can see how, if they were an EPL side they could attract decent players. Like it or not it's a cracking city, nice places to live in easy commuting distance, nice stadia, huge fan base.

Anyway, I don't think things will be the way they are the now in 20 years time.

[Ibrahim Tall]

The Telegraph has OF plus Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs joining.

[CollyWolly]

What utter nonsense. The guy interviewed was not asked about Celtic and Rangers and didn't mention Celtic and Rangers.

 

However if this is a goer and they are considering Scottish clubs, we MUST push ourselves forward for it too.

[busby1985]

I can't see them ever getting into England due to the potential crowd trouble and sectarian baggage they would surely bring but can see both getting invited to a European league which is surely coming. I wouldn't miss em if they went and don't imagine they'd really trouble the top teams down there for a good few years. I can see how, if they were an EPL side they could attract decent players. Like it or not it's a cracking city, nice places to live in easy commuting distance, nice stadia, huge fan base.

Anyway, I don't think things will be the way they are the now in 20 years time.

Can you imagine Chelsea vs Celtic, Remembrance Sunday at Stamford Bridge. Them booing the minutes applause, refusing to wear a poppy. Would be carnage and the FA wouldn't ignore it like the SFA do. It would be international news and the EPL would be embarrassed by it. They wouldn't want any that baggage. Remember when Spurs, away to pompy, chanted about Sol Campbell being gay. Spurs where hammered with fines, dawn raids on fans with fans as young as 13 being banned and arrested etc. Now, there is no place in football for homophobic chanting, but that is insanely mild compared to the glorifying of terrorists and the murder of a religious sect. The EPL wouldn't want anywhere near that. The EPL is a multi billion pound global brand. Look at the bother Celtic have with UEFA.

[ToadKiller Dog]

The support of both would certainly have to change their sectarian world view as it wouldn't be pandered to and accepted down south ,when it is directly in the faces of the English public and the sports media in England wouldn't be scared to point it out .

Peter Lawel phoning up the Daily Mail English editor and threatening him with punishments and loss of sponsors won't work .

 

In time one of them or both May find the way to the top table ,but they would be up against it and it's no sure thing they would get any further than the championship .

 

Scotland would find its level , it's a bigger risk for them starting in the English 5th division , than it would be for the rest of Scottish football reorganizing itself .

The core support of all clubs would still exist .the teams that would move up a step might even grow a little .

 

I doubt they would get accepted , but I don't fear them going .

[davieholt]

The Telegraph has OF plus Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs joining.

 

No, no a hundred times no!

 

To have a shot at winning the top league here (even if the TV cash has dried up post OF) would be much preferable to sitting mid English first division!

[CollyWolly]

I agree I genuinely think the English clubs would vote against them joining, they don't need them from a financial point. It would be nothing but greed and stupidity to allow them in because they might pull a few extra quid but it's loose pocket change or might see it as a novelty.

 

That is our opinion on them joining and doesn't take away from the facts I posted though which are a separate issue.

 

 

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Rangers and Celtic in the English 5th league sells the TV deal for it in an instant. And it leaves SPFL with nothing substantial for future deals.

[mickycameron98]

Are Rangers fans not banned from Manchester and Birmingham for a start?

[We_are_the_Hearts]

More pissing about with football to suit the armchair fans. Just like the Champs League they can ram it!

[davieholt]

Rangers and Celtic in the English 5th league sells the TV deal for it in an instant. And it leaves SPFL with nothing substantial for future deals.

 

How? Who would watch English 5th division football apart from those in the weege? Hardly a massive UK audience.

[CollyWolly]

No, no a hundred times no!

 

To have a shot at winning the top league here (even if the TV cash has dried up post OF) would be much preferable to sitting mid English first division!

Sorry but this league is fecking boring. Without the intensity of the games against the OF it becomes a lot more boring. Yes we'd be in with a shout of winning it but its devalued before it even starts if there are no OF teams. Sorry but in terms of achievement and competition and interest, if the OF aren't there, the game is virtually fecked up here

[CollyWolly]

How? Who would watch English 5th division football apart from those in the weege? Hardly a massive UK audience.

Like it or not, Celtic and Rangers have a worldwide audience, especially when they play each other.

[Hearts007]

davieholt, on 29 Aug 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

How? Who would watch English 5th division football apart from those in the weege? Hardly a massive UK audience.

sky and bt sports would still show their games though

[Ibrahim Tall]

How? Who would watch English 5th division football apart from those in the weege? Hardly a massive UK audience.

The same proportion of the market in England that are quite happy to watch league 1/league 2 etc football at the moment. With just the OF added you're still talking a far greater viewing number than the likes of a Hamilton/Dundee game would generate.

[i8hibsh]

Please please please make this happen.  Right arm and all that.

 

The two most grotesque and despicable institutions this country (or any) can ever see.

 

The sooner we rid our land of the Old Firm cancer the better we will all be. 

 

The only positive I have to say about either is that Celtic winning the European Cup in 1967 was a superb achievement and I salute them for that.  However they have achieved nothing since and never will again (especially is they go down south).

 

They can take their sectarianism and pseudo Irish love ins with them.  Take their glory hunters, their bigots, their terrorist organisation love ins and their religion and do one.

 

I will enjoy watching them rot into oblivion throughout the years with popcorn in hand.

 

The English can have them with my pity.

 

Rotten to the core, the both of em.

[Bauld]

[Hearts007]

Bauld, on 29 Aug 2016 - 10:07 AM, said:

[davieholt]

Sorry but this league is fecking boring. Without the intensity of the games against the OF it becomes a lot more boring. Yes we'd be in with a shout of winning it but its devalued before it even starts if there are no OF teams. Sorry but in terms of achievement and competition and interest, if the OF aren't there, the game is virtually fecked up here

 

I get that but, unless UEFA change all their rules, a shot at European football on a semi regular basis would be a real possibility (even if we do F### it up). 

[The Don]

Rangers and Celtic in the English 5th league sells the TV deal for it in an instant. And it leaves SPFL with nothing substantial for future deals.

 

 

Agreed it could and most likely would hinder any TV we might get, however it would then be up to our governing body and SPFL to make our product more attractive, 

 

Summer football 

Could pave the way for a British Cup

Revamp our league set up

Allow ROI and N. Irish Teams to compete

Retaining our CL spot for league winners is an absolute must

[Ibrahim Tall]

Like it or not, Celtic and Rangers have a worldwide audience, especially when they play each other.

Correct and given how much we already complain about how much they 'big' up an OF game on Sky etc can you imagine the hype that will surround it as an English 'product'? The EFL and Premierships ability to market it and sell itself abroad is a milion times better than ours, the OF and all that goes with it would be a gold mine for them. They'd sell the tv deal with ease.

[tartofmidlothian]

 

Good riddance.

[Andrew Gilbert Wauchope]

What I don't understand is why they don't make the most of their "heritage", which they and their fans assert is hugely important to them?  If that's really the case, Celtic should transfer to Dublin and The Rangers to Belfast.  Or both to Belfast, perhaps?  Save those thousands of fans having to cross the Irish Sea every week. 

[4marsbars]

Old Firm, obsessed with Ireland, want to play in England, meanwhile content to run football in Scotland. We'd be much better off without them, and no entry for their reserves.

 

Exit means exit.

[kila]

Like it or not, Celtic and Rangers have a worldwide audience, especially when they play each other.

 

There'd only be two OF games a season though

[Ibrahim Tall]

Agreed it could and most likely would hinder any TV we might get, however it would then be up to our governing body and SPFL to make our product more attractive,

 

Summer football

Could pave the way for a British Cup

Revamp our league set up

Allow ROI and N. Irish Teams to compete

Retaining our CL spot for league winners is an absolute must

If we're going to allow the Irish to join ours why not leave ourselves? It will no longer be a Scottish league anymore anyway. It'd effectively be a 2nd rate edition of the English/Welsh/OF version down south, where you even begin to sell that?

[Hearts007]

Andrew Gilbert Wauchope, on 29 Aug 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

What I don't understand is why they don't make the most of their "heritage", which they and their fans assert is hugely important to them?  If that's really the case, Celtic should transfer to Dublin and The Rangers to Belfast.  Or both to Belfast, perhaps?  Save those thousands of fans having to cross the Irish Sea every week. 

Money before "Heritage" for them

[i8hibsh]

The whole loss of TV revenue does not wash with me.  There would still be a deal with BBC Scotland (they certainly would not get the rights for the English league the OF will go to), albeit not a great deal but at the end of the day how much do we currently get? the scraps?  "If you build it they will come" - the fans will turn up in huge numbers as their teams will be 'in with a shout' and our game will have been sanitized from the Old Firm muck.

[XB52]

never going to happen but did anyone actually read the story? Nothing in it about the bigot brothers joining the english leagues apart from the reporters imagination, not one quote from anyone about them.  Uefa have constantly said it is a non-starter and the english clubs have constantly said they don't want them. Also, despite my loathing of all things celtic/rangers, nothing from these 2 clubs either. In short a total nothing story

[We_are_the_Hearts]

The whole loss of TV revenue does not wash with me.  There would still be a deal with BBC Scotland (they certainly would not get the rights for the English league the OF will go to), albeit not a great deal but at the end of the day how much do we currently get? the scraps?  "If you build it they will come" - the fans will turn up in huge numbers as their teams will be 'in with a shout' and our game will have been sanitized from the Old Firm muck.

This is where I'm at. It seems the armchair fans that buy into all the BPL and Champs league foreign millionaire playground pish are brainwashed into modern football.

[Gambo]

The Telegraph has OF plus Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs joining.

The only teams in Scotland who can draw 10,000 + of own fans to games regularly.

[oxfordman]

The article says both clubs have an illustrious history...

Can't help thinking they need to check their facts first?

[i8hibsh]

The only teams in Scotland who can draw 10,000 + of own fans to games regularly.

 

 

Hibs? Regularly? lol

[CollyWolly]

I get that but, unless UEFA change all their rules, a shot at European football on a semi regular basis would be a real possibility (even if we do F### it up). 

We really need a TV deal and a sponsorship deal up here to keep the game's head above water. The only exception to that being us and maybe a couple of others who could just about survive on gates and strip sales. If we lost TV and sponsorship, some clubs, quite a few, are gone IMO. Its a double edged sword. The OF leaving is great in many respects. We lose the baggage they come with and we get a fairly competitive league which half a dozen teams would be in with a chance of winning. However we lose lots of money and do you trust Doncaster and Co to rescue that situation ?

[Gambo]

Hibs? Regularly? lol

They can/could.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Like it or not, Celtic and Rangers have a worldwide audience, especially when they play each other.

The gruesomes will go live over here against the Manc derby on Saturday night. The latter will beat the former hands down. Their "worldwide support" is overblown, particularly the new team.

 

If they go, clean break. No reserves, no cups, nothing.

[i8hibsh]

Why would a country want a football team that did not sign a player unless he was a protestant until 1989 and a team who's fans support Palestine and ETA and generally seem to support armed militant, separatist groups.

 

I once saw a Rangers fan with "KAI" tattooed on his arm.  I later found out it meant "Kill All Irish" - I mean in the name of **** who would welcome this nonsense to their country?  Towns and cities all over England being infested every week with one or the other.

[i8hibsh]

They can/could.

 

I know, just joshing with you.

[Hearts007]

Take it the other teams would be mostly National league sides..how exciting