Celtic & Sevco bid to join English league. Again. (merged)

[kingantti1874]

Nope, be the best thing longer term.

No it wouldn't, kids growing up now are already more intersted in the EPL and la liga than Scotland.. We'd be like Ireland where everyone supports an EPL side first and foremost.. Scottish football would be done..

 

We should follow..

[Bazzas right boot]

No it wouldn't, kids growing up now are already more intersted in the EPL and la liga than Scotland.. We'd be like Ireland where everyone supports an EPL side first and foremost.. Scottish football would be done..

 

We should follow..

 

Nope,  people are only interested in the other leagues because two bigoted horrible clubs dominate us.

 

IMO We would end up like Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, lots of smaller countries have successful leagues ( relative)and nations. No reason why we couldn't follow. No reason at all.

 

The Scottish mindset is that beaten that we feel we never believe in ourselves. It's a Sad way to be.

 

Ireland and Wales and even NI for being weak leagues still have a stronger national side than us.

 

Bye bye, don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out is my message to the two horrible clubs.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

No it wouldn't, kids growing up now are already more intersted in the EPL and la liga than Scotland.. We'd be like Ireland where everyone supports an EPL side first and foremost.. Scottish football would be done..

 

We should follow..

On the flip side, trips like Saturday to Partick with the kids makes them see what being a Jambo is about. How the feck do you take the kids to an away game in the South of England?

[Mikey1874]

Nope, people are only interested in the other leagues because two bigoted horrible clubs dominate us.

 

IMO We would end up like Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, lots of smaller countries have successful leagues ( relative)and nations. No reason why we couldn't follow. No reason at all.

 

The Scottish mindset is that beaten that we feel we never believe in ourselves. It's a Sad way to be.

 

Ireland and Wales and even NI for being weak leagues still have a stronger national side than us.

 

Bye bye, don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out is my message to the two horrible clubs.

We can have a successful, competitive league

 

Maybe some initial issues eg TV deals but we would adapt. New energy and ideas would come in. Probably new sponsors.

 

Competition makes sport and the Old Firm have held Scottish football back.

[Mikey1874]

On the flip side, trips like Saturday to Partick with the kids makes them see what being a Jambo is about. How the feck do you take the kids to an away game in the South of England?

Yeah

 

Lots of people just thinking from their going to home games only viewpoint.

[Shooter McGavin]

England don't want them nor do they need them, they are totally irrelevent.

[Section Q]

1. I want hearts to go with them. We would not have a marketable produce if they go - kids will gravitate even further towards them .. To suggest otherwise is utter delusion..

2. How about this for a conspiracy theory.. I was told some months ago that the government would look to leverage football to ensure Indy ref 2 has no chance.. How many knuckle daggers would vote yes if it meant coming back to the SPL.. That's a million votes gone right there .. I don't subscribe to this but an interesting thought.

Not as outlandish as you might think.

My preference would be for us to go with them and later they get chucked out for their antics. Plan B would see one team from Edinburgh, Glasgow, and the North East.

[August Landmesser]

We can have a successful, competitive league

 

Maybe some initial issues eg TV deals but we would adapt. New energy and ideas would come in. Probably new sponsors.

 

Competition makes sport and the Old Firm have held Scottish football back.

Hopefully a few new songs would come in too.

[CollyWolly]

England don't want them nor do they need them, they are totally irrelevent.

Who do you mean by England  ? The TV companies will want them, certainly they wouldn't object. The 72 football league clubs will be split I imagine but I reckon they will see ???'s in it.

 

The Police ? They already deal with the likes of West Ham and Millwall and the Sheffield clubs and dozens more travelling supports well known for trouble. No skin off their nose, dealing with a couple of thousand travelling 'Jocks'

 

Do THEY 'need' them ? Well no probably not at this stage, but there is an underlying feeling down there that the product has to be changed and freshened up a bit to keep the armchair fans interested and still willing to pay for it.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Clubs that won't vote them in:

 

All 20 sides in the EPL.

 

Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Leeds, Wolves, Villa, Newcastle, Brighton, Blackburn, Fulham, Sheffield United etc etc.

 

Rangers and Celtic are shiteing it over the new Champions League structure. Very pleasing.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Clubs that won't vote them in:

 

All 20 sides in the EPL.

 

Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Leeds, Wolves, Villa, Newcastle, Brighton, Blackburn, Fulham, Sheffield United etc etc.

 

Rangers and Celtic are shiteing it over the new Champions League structure. Very pleasing.

Exactly, all the sides outside the Top 6 in England will see them as a potential threat to one of the lucrative 20 BPL places. It would be like Turkeys voting for Xmas. No chance.

[CollyWolly]

Clubs that won't vote them in:

 

All 20 sides in the EPL.

 

Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Leeds, Wolves, Villa, Newcastle, Brighton, Blackburn, Fulham, Sheffield United etc etc.

 

Rangers and Celtic are shiteing it over the new Champions League structure. Very pleasing.

The EPL clubs don't get a vote on football league matters.

[Ibrahim Tall]

On the flip side, trips like Saturday to Partick with the kids makes them see what being a Jambo is about. How the feck do you take the kids to an away game in the South of England?

The south of England isn't the other side of the moon, it's only around 666km from here to London. Compared with similar journeys in other leagues:

 

PSG / Marseille 774KM

Barcelona/Espanyol v Real/Atletico 625KM

Bayern Munch/Hamburg 725KM

 

Etc.

[kingantti1874]

On the flip side, trips like Saturday to Partick with the kids makes them see what being a Jambo is about. How the feck do you take the kids to an away game in the South of England?

How do people in All the other countries in Europe do it?

[Bazzas right boot]

Clubs that won't vote them in:

 

All 20 sides in the EPL.

 

Derby, Forest, Wednesday, Leeds, Wolves, Villa, Newcastle, Brighton, Blackburn, Fulham, Sheffield United etc etc.

 

Rangers and Celtic are shiteing it over the new Champions League structure. Very pleasing.

 

 

If Sky/ BT want it , it will happen.

 

They run that league, not the clubs, it's that simple.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

How do people in All the other countries in Europe do it?

Fair enough but count me out.............would signal me following the Juniors and my kids probably becoming BPL fan boys like other kids.

[kingantti1874]

Nope, people are only interested in the other leagues because two bigoted horrible clubs dominate us.

 

IMO We would end up like Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, lots of smaller countries have successful leagues ( relative)and nations. No reason why we couldn't follow. No reason at all.

 

The Scottish mindset is that beaten that we feel we never believe in ourselves. It's a Sad way to be.

 

Ireland and Wales and even NI for being weak leagues still have a stronger national side than us.

 

Bye bye, don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out is my message to the two horrible clubs.

Income would drop significantly so the quality of player will drop again if that's even possible.. You've already got teams like killie getting 2k fans at home games whereas in the 1990's it was 5 times that..

 

None of those countries you mention have lost their biggest teams.. Imagine Switzerland with Basel and the Vienna clubs..

 

The fact that they have weaker leagues and their kids grow up in the English system is the "reason" their national teams are better..

[kingantti1874]

Fair enough but count me out.............would signal me following the Juniors and my kids probably becoming BPL fan boys like other kids.

Folks kids are already predominantly EPL fanboys mate.. If we made it as far as the championship we'd grow massively as a club IMO..

[Section Q]

Some good points on here.

Imagine an Irish club though, based in Scotland and playing in the English leagues. Opens all sorts of doors for clubs across Europe.

[Ibrahim Tall]

Fair enough but count me out.............would signal me following the Juniors and my kids probably becoming BPL fan boys like other kids.

So rather than skip a few of the large distance away games and go to all the home games you'd completely abandon the team you support?

 

It's worth pointing it you're talking around 160 miles to Inverness, 200 the other way to get to Leeds.

[Five to One]

If this was to be a goer, and I have serious doubts, my preference would actually be for Northern and Southern UK League group stages (cutoff Sheffield and Liverpool?) with an ensuing playoff format similar to the NFL. Only Scottish teams with a prerequisite support would be included. Regionalise the other Scottish, English and Welsh league teams. Reduce the cups to one National FA Cup knockout competition (bye bye League Cups). With the Champions League and Europa League commitments, 2 Cups is a bit farcical and the League Cup is now seriously devalued in both Countries. 

 

Pretty radical, but only way I could see this working and would encourage competitive competition. The biggest problem is the huge number of teams in the UK. Teams would have to be 'cherry picked' to enter such a format and how do you decide that? Why do Aberdeen have a greater right than Dundee Utd, a team with just as much history and pedigree and a decent support when they are doing well. Would there need to be a relegation and promotion element for upcoming regionalised teams?

 

Lastly, what about the travel involved for supporters? This is why I think the Northern and Southern format is the only way it can work, so trips to say Southampton are few and far between and very much an event. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

The EPL clubs don't get a vote on football league matters.

The Football League does what the EPL wants.

[Bazzas right boot]

Income would drop significantly so the quality of player will drop again if that's even possible.. You've already got teams like killie getting 2k fans at home games whereas in the 1990's it was 5 times that..

 

None of those countries you mention have lost their biggest teams.. Imagine Switzerland with Basel and the Vienna clubs..

 

The fact that they have weaker leagues and their kids grow up in the English system is the "reason" their national teams are better..

 

They have competitive leagues, competitive teams in Europe ( relative to size) and competitive national sides.

 

Don't think the quality of player had dropped across the other teams since Rangers were punted.

 

They biggest teams would become Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Utd.

 

Not going to argue, you think we need them. I don't ,I  think the league would flourish. A league that could be won by far more teams would create much more domestic interest than a league that has had 2 winners for 30 years going on 50 years, and this could become worse, with Celtic getting 10 plus in a row, that's tragic and at no way interesting.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

If Sky/ BT want it , it will happen.

 

They run that league, not the clubs, it's that simple.

Sky/BT are never going to insist on the Old Firm moving to England. Way beyond their remit

[BangkokHearts]

Like it or not, Celtic and Rangers have a worldwide audience, especially when they play each other.

 

Maybe 10-15 years ago, no-one has heard of them now.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Folks kids are already predominantly EPL fanboys mate.. If we made it as far as the championship we'd grow massively as a club IMO..

 

So rather than skip a few of the large distance away games and go to all the home games you'd completely abandon the team you support?

 

It's worth pointing it you're talking around 160 miles to Inverness, 200 the other way to get to Leeds.

Maybe I'm just a traditionalist but not interested in joining the foreign millionaires playground. English teams are losing their soul. We are a Scottish team so should compete in a domestic Scottish League. No better than OF fans if it's just all about chasing the buck.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Aberdeen,  Dundee City (merger), Hearts (Hearts & hibs merger)  and Rangers all to go down south, 1 team from each city,  leave Celtic behind just to hear the PR machine go into meltdown as its not fair?  not fair, victims, you all hate us etc etc etc.........This just in........yip we do hate you, and the other half of yer erse cheek as well tutu

[kingantti1874]

They have competitive leagues, competitive teams in Europe ( relative to size) and competitive national sides.

 

Don't think the quality of player had dropped across the other teams since Rangers were punted.

 

They biggest teams would become Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Utd.

 

Not going to argue, you think we need them. I don't ,I think the league would flourish. A league that could be won by far more teams would create much more domestic interest than a league that has had 2 winners for 30 years going on 50 years, and this could become worse, with Celtic getting 10 plus in a row, that's tragic and at no way interesting.

I agree with a lot of your points mate, I really do. I just think the best thing for hearts would be to go as well,

 

Boils my piss seeing shitbox clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Swansea and ****ing Wigan Athletic or some other diddy team cherry pick our players at will.

 

You can't beat them - Join them..

 

Agree views will be far from consistent on this one

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I agree with a lot of your points mate, I really do. I just think the best thing for hearts would be to go as well,

 

Boils my piss seeing shitbox clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Swansea and ******* Wigan Athletic or some other diddy team cherry pick our players at will.

 

You can't beat them - Join them..

 

Agree views will be far from consistent on this one

 

Wigan envy is a dreadful affliction!

[CollyWolly]

Maybe 10-15 years ago, no-one has heard of them now.

Really Aye ?

[Generic Username]

Let them go. They've no interest in the Scottish game so let them try and fill their boots down south or in some "Atlantic League".

[Kim490]

The more I think about this the more I think it could be successful and a catalyst for much needed change in our game.

 

If a supposed 5th division were primarily made up of larger Scottish teams, what would actually be the difference to what we had now.

 

Its quite clear the are too many clubs in Scotland and something like this could push the two Dundee teams to merge and perhaps 3 or 4 Fife teams. You could possibly get 6 perhaps 7 good sized teams out of this.

 

Hearts

Rangers

Celtic

Hibs

Aberdeen

Dundee merged side.

Fife merged side

Kilmarnock/Ayr/Motherwell etc

 

Once clubs realised that 3 or 4 of our largest clubs were to move, you withhold have a huge spate of mergers to join.

 

It would also be a really interesting league.

 

European football is no great loss to Hearts and I suspect the only ones to whine works be the Glasgow football authorities.

 

Don't know how international football world work, but Scotland is absolutely rank, so it is likely to make no difference to the rest of my life.

 

Bring it on.

 

Wouldn't like to be a sheep supporter and end up in a league with Portsmouth in it. That is one serious away day.

[Hagar the Horrible]

I agree with a lot of your points mate, I really do. I just think the best thing for hearts would be to go as well,

 

Boils my piss seeing shitbox clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Swansea and ******* Wigan Athletic or some other diddy team cherry pick our players at will.

 

You can't beat them - Join them..

 

Agree views will be far from consistent on this one

I agree with this, we should go too, we could compete with an injection of TV cash, and our crowds would go up,  but the OF would become a monster the EPL could not control, Celtic would whinge, bully, intimidate, victimidate, cause offense everywhere, but their PR machine is so much better at diversion tactics, the english just would not be ready for?  Plus every paddy plastic or otherwise would be made to feel guilty about not supporting them?

[Ibrahim Tall]

Maybe I'm just a traditionalist but not interested in joining the foreign millionaires playground. English teams are losing their soul. We are a Scottish team so should compete in a domestic Scottish League. No better than OF fans if it's just all about chasing the buck.

Don't get me wrong I agree with you in terms of a "Scottish" league but that for me is the issue, without the OF it basically isn't a Scottish league. We'd effectively be having a 2nd rate competition to find out the 3rd best team in Scotland and any achievement would be hollow as a result.

 

So given the choice of being 2nd rate pretend Scottish champion or playing in a British league sadly id take the 2nd.

[CollyWolly]

The more I think about this the more I think it could be successful and a catalyst for much needed change in our game.

 

If a supposed 5th division were primarily made up of larger Scottish teams, what would actually be the difference to what we had now.

 

Its quite clear the are too many clubs in Scotland and something like this could push the two Dundee teams to merge and perhaps 3 or 4 Fife teams. You could possibly get 6 perhaps 7 good sized teams out of this.

 

Hearts

Rangers

Celtic

Hibs

Aberdeen

Dundee merged side.

Fife merged side

Kilmarnock/Ayr/Motherwell etc

 

Once clubs realised that 3 or 4 of our largest clubs were to move, you withhold have a huge spate of mergers to join.

 

It would also be a really interesting league.

 

European football is no great loss to Hearts and I suspect the only ones to whine works be the Glasgow football authorities.

 

Don't know how international football world work, but Scotland is absolutely rank, so it is likely to make no difference to the rest of my life.

 

Bring it on.

 

Wouldn't like to be a sheep supporter and end up in a league with Portsmouth in it. That is one serious away day.

There are only 8 spaces up for grabs under the new proposals. From 72 teams to 80 teams. Once you do Rangers and Celtic (if you do and I don't believe it for a minute) that leaves 6 spots for Conference teams formerly in the football league. No danger are they going to take Dundee select and Lanarkshire select unless they really expand the plans and think outside the box on it. No danger of Hearts getting in either if its just 8 new clubs.

[Generic Username]

I've read some stupid, mind boggling shit on here over the years, but people genuinely suggesting Hearts try to slither their way into English Football is #1

 

[Dutchmul]

Great, the sooner they both feck off the better, although, sevco should really be playing in belfast and smeltic in dublin but as long as they are no longer playing in scotland, i'll phone the taxi.

[CollyWolly]

I've read some stupid, mind boggling shit on here over the years, but people genuinely suggesting Hearts try to slither their way into English Football is #1

 

 

Seriously you've been on here for bloody years and that's the worst example of mind boggling shit you can think of ?

Nut. It isnae. Not by a long way.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Funny I see plenty of Kids at Tynecastle , was as the United v Raith game on Saturday , lots of kids in the 1000 or so healthy raith support at Tannadice .

The idea that kids all support English teams only isn't true .

People come out if their local team is doing well ,getting prices right so parents can take kids to games .

 

 

As stated take away the old firm fans Scottish average gates still hold up pretty well with European averages ,Hearts gate measures well enough with nations of a similar size .

We would not become like the Welsh or Irish leagues , a title winning hearts would not have crowds of a few thousand .

 

Hearts in England would be a nowhere side our ambition being to draw Man Utd in the cup and survive if we ever made it to the dizzy heights of the championship .

 

Scottish football would shrink at first then it would grow to its right level , Hibs are getting good crowds this season so far due to a cup win and an expectation that they will win promotion .

I don't know any Hearts season ticket holder who only supports hearts because we get to play the ugly sisters .

Smart clubs would thrive as a club Hearts are ahead of the game if the unlikely was to happen and England wanted the poison in their game .

 

With out the ugly sisters we could get better quality in running the game .

[Generic Username]

[IveSeenTheLight]

Best thing ever if it happened!

There is a lot of arrogance about the proposal

 

1- The OF would not ascend to the EPL straight away- that would mean that out the 3 promotion spots in each league they would get 2- shouldering past the likes of Leeds, Newcastle, the Sheffield duo and so on

 

2- the Championship will soon have several teams with parachute payments that will make getting past them a hell of a challenge

 

3-Rangers couldn't make SCOTLAND's top flight in straight seasons

 

4- Hibs crowds are bigger with no OF in the league- why ? They are winning - it actually does not matter who against.

The OF leave Scottish grounds would be rammed- you could see a League Title being won!

 

I totally agree, no gruesome twosome in the top league would make the league more competitive.

 

Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Motherwell and even Livingston have all been "best of the rest" in my lifetime.

St Mirren and ICT have come in third in the same timeframe.

 

Ony Aberdeen and Dundee Utd have won the league in their own rights.

It would be far better if the league was more competitive and a proper challenge.

 

Looking back, the 50's and 60's must have been a great couple of decades, with 7 different teams winning it between 1950 and 1965.

Imagine that real competition without the biggotfest clubs

[Gambo]

Nope, people are only interested in the other leagues because two bigoted horrible clubs dominate us.

 

IMO We would end up like Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, lots of smaller countries have successful leagues ( relative)and nations. No reason why we couldn't follow. No reason at all.

 

The Scottish mindset is that beaten that we feel we never believe in ourselves. It's a Sad way to be.

 

Ireland and Wales and even NI for being weak leagues still have a stronger national side than us.

 

Bye bye, don't let the door hit you on the arse on the way out is my message to the two horrible clubs.

There will not be the same interest from fans of Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs winning a league without the old firm being involved, especially if they have went down south

[Bazzas right boot]

I agree with a lot of your points mate, I really do. I just think the best thing for hearts would be to go as well,

 

Boils my piss seeing shitbox clubs like Bournemouth, Watford, Swansea and ******* Wigan Athletic or some other diddy team cherry pick our players at will.

 

You can't beat them - Join them..

 

Agree views will be far from consistent on this one

 

Fair enough, the thing allot  is these clubs are in allot of debt or have been.

 

It's all relative,  it's not great getting ?100m, if you need to spend ?200 m to get it, it's an arms race down there, can't see there being a winner.

 

I'd rather be top of the league here, than being mid table in the championship down there for example.

 

If there's a chance to win something fans turn out, unfortunately with the OF the chances are limited, it would really open up the league and create excitement.

 

Could see a big boost across the average attendance's  across most clubs.

 

A?sk yourself one question-

 

Is it more fun being a Newcastle/ Norwich fan or being a Hearts fan?

 

Try not to get money and excitement/ competition mixed up.

[Gambo]

I totally agree, no gruesome twosome in the top league would make the league more competitive.

 

Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee Utd, Motherwell and even Livingston have all been "best of the rest" in my lifetime.

St Mirren and ICT have come in third in the same timeframe.

 

Ony Aberdeen and Dundee Utd have won the league in their own rights.

It would be far better if the league was more competitive and a proper challenge.

 

Looking back, the 50's and 60's must have been a great couple of decades, with 7 different teams winning it between 1950 and 1965.

Imagine that real competition without the biggotfest clubs

More competitive yes, with zero interest.

[Generic Username]

More competitive yes, with zero interest.

 

But it's interesting right now, as a monopolized league?

 

Very good.

[Bazzas right boot]

There will not be the same interest from fans of Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs winning a league without the old firm being involved, especially if they have went down south

 

Just not true, our biggest average crowd for decades was when we were in the championship

 

Look at Hibs, Utd were the same when they were down last time

 

Aberdeen can must 40k when there's a chance to win something.

 

When there is a genuine chance of winning fans will come, in big numbers as it generates excitement and interest. Our league doesn't have that.

[Five to One]

Interesting debate on this. But some are forgetting that professional football, as well as a sport, is a spectacle and the sight of half empty grounds in Scotland and England, outwith the top clubs, is alarming. All Clubs have their hardcore fanbase, but to attract more people to games something really has to be done to arrest the decline and make the ridiculous entry fees worth it. 

[1953]

Just think how good it would be if at the start of the season 5 or 6 clubs went into it with a chance of winning the league instead of playing for second or third like we do now. A competitive league would bring the crowds back and the whole thing would find it's level, albeit there would be some casualties along the way but apart from anything else I can't see either of them going in at league 5 level, they would want to start much higher than that and that's not going to happen!

[DH1986]

There will not be the same interest from fans of Hearts, Aberdeen and Hibs winning a league without the old firm being involved, especially if they have went down south

I'm not sure that is true tbh.

[Bazzas right boot]

More competitive yes, with zero interest.

 

If what you say is true, then you are saying the only interest in our football is the OF.

 

How does that benefit Hearts or any other clubs?

 

Interest from who? England, why do we need that, every other European league survives and thrives without it? why do we need their interest?

 

We might lose armchair fans ( by your logic are only interested in two teams), but gain local fans, so global interest would drop ( not that it effects the other 40 teams) but local interest would increase, which does affect all the other teams.