Scotland's Game

[Beast Boy]

Reading this thread and the one on .ned has convinced me to actually watch the damn thing.

 

The main thing I take from both threads is that Hibs are only deemed important enough to warrant a mention when it involves Hearts. They seem very pissed off that nobody gives a flying **** either way about their existence. Is that a reasonable summation?

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Reading this thread and the one on .ned has convinced me to actually watch the damn thing.

 

The main thing I take from both threads is that Hibs are only deemed important enough to warrant a mention when it involves Hearts. They seem very pissed off that nobody gives a flying **** either way about their existence. Is that a reasonable summation?

Entirely reasonable.

 

So if Pieface is allowed in does that mean Vladimir is too.

[Footballfirst]

I've had a look through some old papers about the Cala deal that Robinson tried to force through.  I could almost guarantee that if Cala had made a similar offer to Ann Budge, we wouldn't be building a new stand, it would be a new stadium elsewhere.

 

The offer guaranteed a minimum of ?20.5M with a mid price of ?22M.

[Ivan Drago]

Good post.

 

To be honest the program is set up to be a look back at the events in Scottish football rather than an in depth look at the main problems with our game. Even if the BBC were to treat it as any sort of in depth journalism it would still gloss over the main issues and point fingers in the wrong direction.

 

It was good to hear some kind words about us saving our club and seeing Bryan Jackson doing that press conference again really reminds us of how bad a situation we were in, some very sensible words from Mrs Budge as well. They did take it away from us a little when they were talking about the Romanov takeover and said we turned our back on a local business man with long links to the club (Robinson) and backed a mysterious European banker with questionable motives, felt like a cheap shot when they knew how bad a situation we were in at the time.

 

Graham Speirs kissing Neil Lennons arse, saying he refused to take any abuse lying down as if he was some sort of people's champion and hinting that all the abuse he got was sectarian related when in all honesty he got abuse because he behaved like an arrogant prick on the pitch. The question they should be asking is why did Martin O'Neill not get the same abuse as Lennon did but they won't.

 

Like I say pointing fingers in the wrong direction....

So what exactly did he do on the pitch that warranted getting assaulted in the street, getting sent bombs and bullets in the post, and getting attacked on the sidelines of a football match?

[Spencer]

I've had a look through some old papers about the Cala deal that Robinson tried to force through. I could almost guarantee that if Cala had made a similar offer to Ann Budge, we wouldn't be building a new stand, it would be a new stadium elsewhere.

 

The offer guaranteed a minimum of ?20.5M with a mid price of ?22M.

The respective situations are hardly comparable

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I've had a look through some old papers about the Cala deal that Robinson tried to force through. I could almost guarantee that if Cala had made a similar offer to Ann Budge, we wouldn't be building a new stand, it would be a new stadium elsewhere.

 

The offer guaranteed a minimum of ?20.5M with a mid price of ?22M.

Are you donating your archive of papers to the museum?

[1971fozzy]

Chris Robinson was a complete imposter. An egotistical unpleasant pawn life who without doubt took us to the very brink. I remember after we won the cup I saw him on the way to a game the following season in russell road and. All I did was say "hi". The look of disgust he gave me has stayed with me to this day. I was in the federation at the time and remember only too well the shite he promised us at meetings as he was desperate for our support in the time he was buying from Wallace. He should be banned from ever entering the ground as the lies he spouted at the time of the Cala buy out are unforgivable. He makes me sick. And to think he helped Coventry out in a complete reversal from our situation makes it worse. Hate the man more than words can convey.

[Mr Sifter]

I won't be starting the campaign for a Vlad statue if that's what you mean.

 

He's an absolute parasite

Vlad's a parasite?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Vlad's a parasite?

Exactly. No one spent more money on Hearts than he did. No one wasted more money either!

[Sydney]

Exactly. No one spent more money on Hearts than he did. No one wasted more money either!

 

Genuine question - did Vlad ever personally put money into Hearts, or was it money from "Vlad controlled businesses"?

[John Findlay]

There is ever only one constant with a football club. It's supporters. Those in the boardroom are mere custodians on behalf of the said supporters. Over Hearts 142yrs history some have hot this. The majority have not. I personally believe those currently in the Hearts boardroom most certainly get it. However I think a mistake many make in our own support and in the boardrooms of our opponents. Is that Ann Budge is a hard nosed business woman with a very sharp brain to match. Those that underestimate her do so at their peril. Particularly. King, Lawwell, Doncaster and, Reagan.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Genuine question - did Vlad ever personally put money into Hearts, or was it money from "Vlad controlled businesses"?

Vlad via Vlad controlled businesses.

[The Skip]

So what exactly did he do on the pitch that warranted getting assaulted in the street, getting sent bombs and bullets in the post, and getting attacked on the sidelines of a football match?

I'm not saying he done anything to deserve it, no one should be getting sent bullets in the post because of a game of football.

 

Unfortunately there are idiots, especially when the old firm are concerned, that take it too far, just look at the domestic abuse figures after old firm games. Who in their right mind honestly thinks, my team got beat I'm going home to knock lumps out of my Mrs.

 

My point was in the programme it was highlighted that the sectarian abuse/incidents at games increased when two Northern Irish, Catholics joined Celtic (O'Neil and Lennon). Lennon got the abuse and treatment he did whilst, as far as I'm aware O'Neil got none (outside of the usual shouts at the games etc). Instead of questioning why that was it is just taken as being because of where he comes from and his religion, rather than acknowledging that he was someone who rubs people up the wrong way and is generaly a dislikable character. The fact that the BBC used a picture of him lying on the turf at Tynecastle and supporters shouting at him from the stands as some sort of evidence of this campaign of abuse as if it was anything out of the norm.

 

I dislike Lennon, not because of his race or religion, as a player and manager he did all he could to wind up the opposition and opposition fans. I in no way condone him getting death threats and people chasing and spitting at his car but you have to acknowledge that if you are going to act like he did, especially at one of the old firm, there will be some nutters which will take it too seriously, far, far too seriously and do something idiotic.

 

Like I say in no way is what happened to him acceptable, but if you stir the shit, you can't be held up as some sort of hero.

[EC_Hearts]

I've had a look through some old papers about the Cala deal that Robinson tried to force through.  I could almost guarantee that if Cala had made a similar offer to Ann Budge, we wouldn't be building a new stand, it would be a new stadium elsewhere.

 

The offer guaranteed a minimum of ?20.5M with a mid price of ?22M.

Need to see if I still have the offer document because from memory it wasn't as "generous" as that. I can't recall any guaranteed minimum figure and I'm sure there was a figure (based on what permissions the council gave to build) that allowed Cala to walk away, ?23M was the top end but that would not have been achieved due to building restrictions . Payment schedule was very much loaded in Cala's favour as well with even the initial stage  payment not being made until planning permission was granted (which wouldn't have helped us at the time). Granted my hatred of CPR at the time may have coloured my view.

[Spencer]

Geoff is correct (I never thought I'd scribe those words) when he states the mismanagement of CPR would've seen us sell Tynecastle to Cala for a sum below the entirety of our obligations.

 

That serves to illustrate how ruinous and incompetent the CPR/LD era was. JJ didn't help either.

 

Due to VR being the only option available to us at the time, it would appear his actions are accepted by some

[kingantti1874]

Despite all his failing, vlad brought 2 Scottish cups and gave us players such as Rudi Skacel, Jenny, Pinilla, Bednar, Aguiar... Fyssas..

 

If the banking crisis hadn't bitten in 2008 I'm entirely convinced he'd still be here running us in a crazy roller coaster fashion..

 

The end was a disaster, I don't think he wanted to hurt the club but he absolutely did, all things considered and with the benefit of hindsight... I wouldn't change it.

[DETTY29]

No-one deserves the level of abuse Lennon got.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Violence, assault, sectarianism, bigotry - absolutely not.

 

The general football banter, in context, that has to be expected.  And he was someone who courted controversy too.  Not just pushing boundaries, crossing them too. Running 50 yards on to the pitch after the Scottish Cup semi final in aggressively confront Euan Norris should have led too a media and football authorities backlash.  Compliance Officer disappeared because he was at the stage of facing a significant touchline ban.

 

However, he made it out to be a 100% anti catholic, anti Northern Irish catholic agenda.  No ifs, no buts, no maybes.  100%.  He said so himself on RTE.

 

Of course, there would be elements of this across the Rangers fan base - a whole?, some of the Hearts fan base and other anti catholic elements of Scottish society.

 

But I know fans of other clubs including Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee United who hated him for footballing reasons alone.  And this included strong catholics of Irish heritage.

 

During the episode on Thursday we saw coins thrown at Hugh Dallas.  He was attacked on the pitch by a fan and his home vandalised.  He was seen as being a pro Rangers, proddy, mason by Celtic fans.  Over the last few days I've seen tweets by so called 'serious' tweeters that 'the **** deserved it'

 

Lennon didn't deserve the abuse that crossed the line.  Dallas neither.

 

But history and the type of character Lennon was / is, shouldn't be ignored.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Lennon was a penis but I'm thankful for one thing from him.

 

When he was booed at Windsor in that Norway game, it was the catalyst for change that Northern Ireland football supporters needed. I was at the next game against the Czechs and his every touch was cheered, despite him mastering an ability to find a red shirt with every pass! That's led to the support, 15 years later, winning all sorts of plaudits at the Euros.

[DETTY29]

Lennon was a penis but I'm thankful for one thing from him.

 

When he was booed at Windsor in that Norway game, it was the catalyst for change that Northern Ireland football supporters needed. I was at the next game against the Czechs and his every touch was cheered, despite him mastering an ability to find a red shirt with every pass! That's led to the support, 15 years later, winning all sorts of plaudits at the Euros.

Which is great for NI.  And football.

 

Has Lennon himself recognised this?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Which is great for NI. And football.

 

Has Lennon himself recognised this?

To be fair to him, he was as chuffed as any Ulsterman with our efforts in the Euros. Plus he always said that it wasn't the hardcore who acted like pricks, which was true. It was mainly when Linfield fans bothered their arses to turn up.

[Footballfirst]

Need to see if I still have the offer document because from memory it wasn't as "generous" as that. I can't recall any guaranteed minimum figure and I'm sure there was a figure (based on what permissions the council gave to build) that allowed Cala to walk away, ?23M was the top end but that would not have been achieved due to building restrictions . Payment schedule was very much loaded in Cala's favour as well with even the initial stage  payment not being made until planning permission was granted (which wouldn't have helped us at the time). Granted my hatred of CPR at the time may have coloured my view.

 

Here is an extract detailing the price:

 

[Irufushi]

Despite all his failing, vlad brought 2 Scottish cups and gave us players such as Rudi Skacel, Jenny, Pinilla, Bednar, Aguiar... Fyssas..

 

If the banking crisis hadn't bitten in 2008 I'm entirely convinced he'd still be here running us in a crazy roller coaster fashion..

 

The end was a disaster, I don't think he wanted to hurt the club but he absolutely did, all things considered and with the benefit of hindsight... I wouldn't change it.

Nailed it.

[kingantti1874]

No-one deserves the level of abuse Lennon got.

 

Absolutely not.

 

Violence, assault, sectarianism, bigotry - absolutely not.

 

The general football banter, in context, that has to be expected. And he was someone who courted controversy too. Not just pushing boundaries, crossing them too. Running 50 yards on to the pitch after the Scottish Cup semi final in aggressively confront Euan Norris should have led too a media and football authorities backlash. Compliance Officer disappeared because he was at the stage of facing a significant touchline ban.

 

However, he made it out to be a 100% anti catholic, anti Northern Irish catholic agenda. No ifs, no buts, no maybes. 100%. He said so himself on RTE.

 

Of course, there would be elements of this across the Rangers fan base - a whole?, some of the Hearts fan base and other anti catholic elements of Scottish society.

 

But I know fans of other clubs including Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee United who hated him for footballing reasons alone. And this included strong catholics of Irish heritage.

 

During the episode on Thursday we saw coins thrown at Hugh Dallas. He was attacked on the pitch by a fan and his home vandalised. He was seen as being a pro Rangers, proddy, mason by Celtic fans. Over the last few days I've seen tweets by so called 'serious' tweeters that 'the **** deserved it'

 

Lennon didn't deserve the abuse that crossed the line. Dallas neither.

 

But history and the type of character Lennon was / is, shouldn't be ignored.

The VAST majority of the hate directed towards Neil Lennon is because he is a complete welt on and off the pitch.. nothing at all to do with his religion.

[Beast Boy]

The VAST majority of the hate directed towards Neil Lennon is because he is a complete welt on and off the pitch.. nothing at all to do with his religion.

Exactly.

[EC_Hearts]

Thanks for the confirmation FF.

[DETTY29]

The VAST majority of the hate directed towards Neil Lennon is because he is a complete welt on and off the pitch.. nothing at all to do with his religion

I agree on this.

 

Unfortunately for some reason it is never debated.

 

It doesn't suit the agenda to recognise this and no doubt the standard threat of the removal of press privileges was made several times by Celtic.

 

He still shouldn't have been attacked or had parcel bombs addressed to him either.

[Thaw]

I'm sceptical of full-blown fan ownership and was pleased that Ann Budge sounded a note of caution.

 

I thought it was borderline irresponsible inviting Alan Bissett on to tell us that fan ownership has to be the only way because capitalism is bad. Exactly the type of fantasy idealism that eventually put me off the Yes movement.

[Diadora Van Basten]

I actually felt sorry for chris Robinson at the agm. The personal abuse was shocking.

I used to love the AGMs they were like going to the panto.

[DETTY29]

I used to love the AGMs they were like going to the panto.

The stink bombs weren't pleasant at the one when it was voted on to leave Tynecastle.

 

I won't mention his name, but one fan head butting one of the pillars in the Gorgie Suite looked sore as ****.  He didn't flinch.

[Hashimoto]

Telling point for me was the discussion regarding the Sky TV deal......"Scottish fans will watch English football, but doubt the English fans will watch Scottish games" TV money was definately a factor in shaping and defining the Scottish game. Lets be honest, the Setanta deal was a disaster. Possibly as a consequence Sky treated Scottish football as 2nd class citizens despite the proportional subscription we continue to make for this England centric PPV network. BT Sport is practically The Rangers TV show up here in Scotland, you just need to look at the number of live games covered in the past 3-years? Has the Sky, BT, Setanta deals really been for the betterment of the game in Scotland....Not for me.   

[Maroon Sailor]

Mitchell says that Celtic and Rangers finance Scottish football.

 

Who finances them ?

[Haken]

I finally got round to watching it last night. The whole TV shambles actually made me quite angry, cynical and resigned. Who is it that actually benefits from football on TV? Arguably, it's people who can't be arsed going to games. Who benefits financially? The Tv companies and the businessmen at certain select clubs. Who are the losers? The ordinary fans who go to the games, week in and week out.

 

I can't help but feel that we're in probably the best possible place. We have an extremely able businesswoman in charge who happens to have an emotional attachment to the club. She realises that we have to be run as a business, while at the same time having a full understanding of the community impact and what a football club actually means to the fan base.

[Just joe]

Tonight at 9pm

 

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10516617_375030085989629_5812782752070865136_n.jpg?oh=e2bb2550d5ea801bbba7ff7bc7d29fbf&oe=58539C9C

[Just joe]

S**t wrong link

[Just joe]

Scotland's game

[Just joe]

http://bbc.in/2c6ryyF

That's it!!

[Nookie Bear]

Telling point for me was the discussion regarding the Sky TV deal......"Scottish fans will watch English football, but doubt the English fans will watch Scottish games" TV money was definately a factor in shaping and defining the Scottish game. Lets be honest, the Setanta deal was a disaster. Possibly as a consequence Sky treated Scottish football as 2nd class citizens despite the proportional subscription we continue to make for this England centric PPV network. BT Sport is practically The Rangers TV show up here in Scotland, you just need to look at the number of live games covered in the past 3-years? Has the Sky, BT, Setanta deals really been for the betterment of the game in Scotland....Not for me.   

 

The problem is that we got ourselves into a vicious circle where the reason Scottish people watched English games was because the initial injection of money into the English game meant it became more attractive, and it snowballs from there. I cannot blame some kid for tuning in to watch Zlatan, Aguero and Hazard when the alternative is Lasley, Boyd and Swanson.

 

Our game, as a consequence, was forgotten about and became less attractive to the tv companies which means less money and a deteriorating product (to the casual viewer).

 

And it just spirals down to the point where of course more folk will watch English games because it is glitz and glamour.

[Maroon Sailor]

Programme 3 just started focussing on the National team

[Fxxx the SPFL]

Anybody still want to defend Maggie Thatcher.

[Maroon Sailor]

Anybody still want to defend Maggie Thatcher.

FS

 

Stick to football will you

[CJGJ]

That match in Cardiff brings back memories

 

Had a great couple of days there and pre match visit to the free pub in the local brewery meant it was in a great mood that we travelled to the match...we know the result and the aftermath.

News travelled a lot slower in those days and it was not until just before midnight we found out about Jock Stein whilst wandering the streets of Cardiff

 

A much more sombre trip back

[Maroon Sailor]

I remember saying at the time when Cooper scored that penalty that Jock Stein didn't look well.

 

Gutted when I heard the news - from such a high to a feeling of devastation

[Maroon Sailor]

Scotland got mugged in that Costa Rica match.

 

Much the better team but just couldn't score and one mistake proved costly

[Carl Fredrickson]

The bit about big Jock still brings a lump to my throat. So many great players at that time. 

 

Andy Roxburgh making excuses for us ballsing it up v Cost Rica. 

[hueyview]

The bit about big Jock still brings a lump to my throat. So many great players at that time. 

 

Andy Roxburgh making excuses for us ballsing it up v Cost Rica. 

Big jocks death is so memorable..,....what a emotional night that was....

[Maroon Sailor]

Now on to the Bertie MacVogts era !

 

A reminder how bad it got

[The Internet]

That free kick decision for Italy

[Carl Fredrickson]

Bertie was on a hiding to nothing as Brown left an ageing squad and didnt blood many youngsters. Bertie cast his net far and wide with many players not good enough but he IIRC he gave the likes of Darren Fletcher their first cap

[Maroon Sailor]

Scotland v Italy

 

Referee was murder that night and I'm convinced he was bribed - a devastating loss. Hutton got taken out cleanly but the foul goes to Italy and the rest is history

[ivanhoe]

Was the Italy game when we got an offside goal and Italy scored in 91 minutes?