Scotland's Game

[Pans Jambo]

just watched that on the programme, just goes to show that the Old Firm truly are the cancer of Scottish Football

Was just thinking the same.

Problem is...they are in Glasgow. The association that governs and runs our game is in Glasgow. The majorirty (if not all) of the newspapers, TV & radio that cover our game are based in Glasgow and the "journalists" are mostly Glaswegian. A large proportion on the clubs up here are ran by directors who have sympathies to the Glasgow teams. The stadium that Scotland play their games is in Glasgow...seems to be a theme here!

[By the light]

Was walking down to Baberton tonight from Juni Green. Nice big Astro pitch Juni green primary has...big sign saying no unauthorised football. Joke shop. What's the point in building these pitches if you can't play on them with your mates until it's dark??

 

They need to enjoy playing and they need battered about a bit by bigger kids. Sure teach them ball skills in a structured environment but real learning is done by playing freely against peers with no one watching.

[i wish jj was my dad]

They've been spouting the same pish about grass roots for the last 30 years.

 

Nothing has changed for the better.

 

Scotland don't qualify for finals and no other clubs outwith Celtic and Rangers win the league.

 

The game is not allowed to develop because of these two dictating things.

 

Too much power

it didn't need 4 episodes to tell us that. Lady budge fired a wee shot across their bows tonight. I bet she is ripping up the blazers every time they meet

[Deodato]

Thought the three part documentary was excellent. 

 

Balanced, didn't play the hindsight game and was geared towards a progressive message of 'how do we move this forward'. 

 

Really made me stop and think back to when we had Souness playing in midfield and 4-5 of Liverpool's title winning first team wearing the Scotand strip. 

 

Also, the introduction of Eastern European nations, and the way that pushed down Scotland's ranking, really made sense. Hadn't thought about that before. 

 

Respect due - the Beeb did well 

[Tiger]

I have missed all these episodes, is there anywhere i can see them? I cant find them on catchup or iPlayer.

[rudi must stay]

It's been a very good series of documentaries to be fair. Plenty lessons to be learned.

 

Will we learn? Doubt it.

 

That programme tonight highlighted the fact that we need people like Ann and Dempster running, or having a greater say, in the game. Not OF-loving twonks like Doncaster and Regan who take a huge salary and contribute **** all.

I think it showed we need Ann Budge running Scottish Football, Dempster is a director who looks after the pennies I think. She can run a club effectively but AB has ideas to improve the game

[Maiden Gorgie]

I think it showed we need Ann Budge running Scottish Football, Dempster is a director who looks after the pennies I think. She can run a club effectively but AB has ideas to improve the game

 

 

True, but I think the more allies Ann Budge has the better chance she has. They seem to get on and Dempster could bring something to the table.

[Maroon Sailor]

Was walking down to Baberton tonight from Juni Green. Nice big Astro pitch Juni green primary has...big sign saying no unauthorised football. Joke shop. What's the point in building these pitches if you can't play on them with your mates until it's dark??

They need to enjoy playing and they need battered about a bit by bigger kids. Sure teach them ball skills in a structured environment but real learning is done by playing freely against peers with no one watching.

We played with a tennis ball during our dinner time at school - seems mental looking back on it !

[gnasher75]

A wee bit simplistic maybe but...

 

If English clubs hadn't been banned from Europe in the 80s, Souness wouldn't have been able to buy so many top players from south of the border, bankrolled by Murray and his EBTs.

 

Other Scottish clubs might not have brought in so many foreign players to try to compete and to pay wages they couldn't afford.

 

Instead we might have given young Scottish players a decent chance and continued to qualify for major international tournaments.

 

Kind of ironic Souness complaining about the poor standard of Scottish football and being so negative about our national team.

[JyTees]

We played with a tennis ball during our dinner time at school - seems mental looking back on it !

And after someone booted it up the roof, you'd just make do with a compressed empty juice can.

 

Good times.

[Maroon Sailor]

A wee bit simplistic maybe but...

If English clubs hadn't been banned from Europe in the 80s, Souness wouldn't have been able to buy so many top players from south of the border, bankrolled by Murray and his EBTs.

Other Scottish clubs might not have brought in so many foreign players to try to compete and to pay wages they couldn't afford.

Instead we might have given young Scottish players a decent chance and continued to qualify for major international tournaments.

Kind of ironic Souness complaining about the poor standard of Scottish football and being so negative about our national team.

Could be part of the problem

 

Believe the 1987 Scottish cup final was the last cup final to have both teams and managers all being Scottish.

[Slevinkelevra]

So levein said when he came back to manage hearts there were 4 players on 10 grand a week, any guesses on who?? Niemi and Petric two that I can think maybe were?

[rudi must stay]

So levein said when he came back to manage hearts there were 4 players on 10 grand a week, any guesses on who?? Niemi and Petric two that I can think maybe were?

I heard Niemi was never on much at Hearts. Possibly Robert Tomashek, he was Slokakia captain when he signed

[Perth to Paisley]

She looks as hard as nails right enough.

Met her a couple of times and she is really nice.

Hope she make the step up too next level - has all the badges needed!

[Rudi-Robertson]

So levein said when he came back to manage hearts there were 4 players on 10 grand a week, any guesses on who?? Niemi and Petric two that I can think maybe were?

Fitzroy Simpson?

 

Was Ricardo Fuller here before Levein arrived?

[Rudi-Robertson]

Thomas Flogel could very well have been on ?10,000. Jaunjo was a youngster but came from Barcelona

[Maroon Sailor]

I have missed all these episodes, is there anywhere i can see them? I cant find them on catchup or iPlayer.

 

If you scroll up the terrace home page you will see Hambone Heaven - first 3 are in there

[Rudi-Robertson]

Elvis spoke very well. John Collins love him or hate him at least tried to change the culture at the San Giro along with the French dude at Rangers who's name escapes me, but Barry Ferguson spat the dummy

 

It's summed up for me in the small clip at the start where Tom English says we didn't need any plans or blue prints in place, all we had to do was go to Georgia and win. Twice we failed where a win would have qualified us outright and qualify us for the play off respectfully

[Thaw]

We played with a tennis ball during our dinner time at school - seems mental looking back on it !

 

That's a point actually. Is there a correlation between the rise of Health & Safety in school playgrounds and the lower standard of player being produced in Scotland?

 

My dad would always have played with a proper ball at school.

[Harry Potter]

John Collins - "it's not often you win a cup final with 5 goals"

 

Ha ha, i giggled at that, 

[jbee647]

So levein said when he came back to manage hearts there were 4 players on 10 grand a week, any guesses on who?? Niemi and Petric two that I can think maybe were?

I'd say Petric and Stephane Adam, and probably either Tomascheck or Fitzroy Simpson, although I'd imagine, the likes of Niemi, Flogel, Jackson , McSwegan and Cameron would all have been on decent wedge at the time

[i wish jj was my dad]

So levein said when he came back to manage hearts there were 4 players on 10 grand a week, any guesses on who?? Niemi and Petric two that I can think maybe were?

Cameron,Adam, Tomashek and Petric I think.

[Haken]

We played with a tennis ball during our dinner time at school - seems mental looking back on it !

Same.  And the guy who run our school team actually encouraged it.  Said if we could control something as wee as a tennis ball, controlling a football would be a dawdle.  Never quite worked for me, though.

[Bauld]

The thing about 4 hearts players on 10k sounds incredible but you also have to consider the rest of them.

 

The fact we can't decide who they are tells me there were probably others on at least 5k.

[kila]

Really enjoyed that, and the issues within Scottish football being highlighted well.

 

We all know who caused the problem and what the solution us

[i wish jj was my dad]

A wee bit simplistic maybe but...

 

If English clubs hadn't been banned from Europe in the 80s, Souness wouldn't have been able to buy so many top players from south of the border, bankrolled by Murray and his EBTs.

 

Other Scottish clubs might not have brought in so many foreign players to try to compete and to pay wages they couldn't afford.

 

Instead we might have given young Scottish players a decent chance and continued to qualify for major international tournaments.

 

Kind of ironic Souness complaining about the poor standard of Scottish football and being so negative about our national team.

As you say lots more to it than that but that's a huge factor.  I can still hear Sir EBT lecturing us about 'tail wagging the dog' before the advent of the SPL and a string of saboteurs like Mitchell and Doncaster being brought in to do the OF bidding.  Maybe, just maybe the legacy of VR will be Ann Budge getting enough influence to turn the thing around and we actually start looking at the greater good rather than just promoting the very institutions who are strangling the rest of us.   

[TexasAndy]

Great series.  As much as i don't like John Collins I thought he highlighted one big area where we fall miles behind other countries, work ethic.  A willingness to improve yourself as a player through sheer hard graft.  Interesting to hear James Grady say that Hamilton players and staff would be sitting on bus after training waiting for McCarthy and McArthur to finish.  The 2 players who are now plying their trade in EPL.   These players showing how far you can go with fairly limited talent.

[Maroon Sailor]

Great series.  As much as i don't like John Collins I thought he highlighted one big area where we fall miles behind other countries, work ethic.  A willingness to improve yourself as a player through sheer hard graft.  Interesting to hear James Grady say that Hamilton players and staff would be sitting on bus after training waiting for McCarthy and McArthur to finish.  The 2 players who are now plying their trade in EPL.   These players showing how far you can go with fairly limited talent.

Paul Lambert saying they trained every day at Dortmund.

 

Sounds like a combination of the self profiicating bigot brothers and Scottish players lazy attitudes for the decline in Scotland's game.

 

They still blame it on grass roots and lack of youth development.

[John Findlay]

1. There is no substitute for playing. I am of the generation of it was fitbaw morning noon and night. Tennis baw in the playground and fitbaw in the street. Lamport as floodlights when it got dark. I was a good player but not good enough to be a professional. At 53 yrs old today I can trap a baw better than half the current Hearts first team.

2. Don't over coach bairns. Don't take their natural ability away from them. Don't discourage them to take players on. Our first goal against Hamilton in my eyes was a thing of beauty. Player hitting the bye line putting over a good cross and the baw dispatched with aplomb. It was two players brought through from our academy.

3. Grow a set of balls Scottish football. This series of documentaries was desperate to say that Celtic and Sevco are the problem and not the solution but, didn't have the balls to say so. BBC were cowards in the cold light of day.

[kila]

1. There is no substitute for playing. I am of the generation of it was fitbaw morning noon and night. Tennis baw in the playground and fitbaw in the street. Lamport as floodlights when it got dark. I was a good player but not good enough to be a professional. At 53 yrs old today I can trap a baw better than half the current Hearts first team.

2. Don't over coach bairns. Don't take their natural ability away from them. Don't discourage them to take players on. Our first goal against Hamilton in my eyes was a thing of beauty. Player hitting the bye line putting over a good cross and the baw dispatched with aplomb. It was two players brought through from our academy.

3. Grow a set of balls Scottish football. This series of documentaries was desperate to say that Celtic and Sevco are the problem and not the solution but, didn't have the balls to say so. BBC were cowards in the cold light of day.

 

I thought the BBC called that out quite bluntly, stating the OF were the only vetoes for the proposals to encourage the bringing through of youth over signing foreigners.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I like how the Largs coaching factory was skipped over. The number of coaches coming out of there whose attitude is not to lose, as opposed to winning, is half the problem.

[Homme]

No wonder we went into fecking admin.

 

The process started long, long before Vlad came in.

[Gibbo]

I have missed all these episodes, is there anywhere i can see them? I cant find them on catchup or iPlayer.

For some reason they stay on the iPlayer for only 7 days instead of the usual 28. The last one is now available but the others aren't.

[norrie1952]

We played with a tennis ball during our dinner time at school - seems mental looking back on it !

That is exactly what I remember.Used to hurry lunch to get outside and do ****** or hen to see which side we got on.And we used a tennis ball as well.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I like how the Largs coaching factory was skipped over. The number of coaches coming out of there whose attitude is not to lose, as opposed to winning, is half the problem.

 

Very true but because Jose M and a few other names have been there for a week the SFA somehow think it's the leading coaches academy on planet earth. When in reality it's shite. A pal of mine went there to do some sort of youth badge and it was if he was back at school and learning by rote. As for using a ball, forget it.

[jambali]

Thought Ann got it spot on. There's a need for clubs to put Scottish football before their own self-interest. Howevre, good luck with that when two don't even want to play here!

[norrie1952]

Loath them we might but a lot of them spoke sense.Imo the harsh training in Germany and France maybe not the solution but a start possibly.The players might not like it,but they are professional football players.

[John Findlay]

I thought the BBC called that out quite bluntly, stating the OF were the only vetoes for the proposals to encourage the bringing through of youth over signing foreigners.

I disagree. They had Craig Brown only say that. The Roger Mitchell's and others said it in cryptic fashion. Note that Celtic never spoke at all. Walter Smith stating he was wrong and Andy Roxburgh was right was surprising.

There is far to much self interest in Scotland most of it coming from two teams in Glasgow. It has been ingrained via the media that without two certain teams from Glasgow Scottish football would be finished. I disagree 100%. I have never subscribed to this and never will. We and many others made the two from Glasgow football wise just as much as they made us and others football wise.

[rudi must stay]

Thought Ann got it spot on. There's a need for clubs to put Scottish football before their own self-interest. Howevre, good luck with that when two don't even want to play here!

Well said. And looking at the people representing the OF on that programme that wont change, Strachan aside Celtic and Rangers come first

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

Deserting lazy, egotistical gobshites

I find it difficult to defend "if I was chocolate, I'd eat myself" Squareheid but it is astounding that the Tache took the side of the wasters at Hibs at the time who complained about him.

[fraz the postie]

The programme was fine but still didn't realy give us any answers on how we should be improving our game.

Do we get shot of twenty top flight teams ?,

Do we play through the summer ?,

Are the grass roots/ youth football set ups going to provide better quality ?,

Have we in Scotland got good enough accessible facility's ?,

Do kids do enough physical training at school ?.

Good luck someone sorting that lot out.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

We played with a tennis ball during our dinner time at school - seems mental looking back on it !

Yes but if you can accurately pass and shoot with a tennis ball your technique is pretty decent. A good way to learn really.

[Riccarton3]

I find it difficult to defend "if I was chocolate, I'd eat myself" Squareheid but it is astounding that the Tache took the side of the wasters at Hibs at the time who complained about him.

is it, though? He knew there was millions to be made in sales.

[Cruyff Turn]

The Performance Academies are a good idea and will work to some extent.

 

John Collins and Paul Lambert are right though about the level of fitness, professionalism and training and the attitudes to it.

 

I also think Ann Budge is right to an extent. I know this is unpopular but I think we have too many clubs. Although I think that the exposure to English Football and the OF have taken alot of fans from those clubs and kids support Man Utd, Liverpool or the OF before supporting local clubs.

 

Maybe mergers for some are the way forward but would be extremely unpopular. Looking at the bigger picture though I think something like that has to happen but that is entirely up to any clubs involved and their members. I'd like to see 2 professional Leagues, consisting of at least 14 teams, maybe 16. Teams like Queen of the South, Morton, Falkirk, Raith, Ayr, Dunfermline are historically quite well supported and I think those teams and could be Top Division sides but because of the size of the leagues and only one automatic place I think that they have a very slim chance of playing in the top flight as the teams coming down are generally got the funds to go back up.

 

There needs to be better competition for our yourh sides though. Perhaps under 23 sides, or a draft like the MLS or even some sort of competition involving u-23 sides from other countries. We need players playing competitive football at a young age against professionals. The Challenge Cup has helped but not far enough perhaps.

 

One of the main problems i've noticed, more so with the OF than others but we're maybe all guilty is that younger players don't get the chances they used too. Maybe it's because the competition and margins are too fine to throw a youngster into a big game because losing is too costly in the modern game. Maybe some sort of age rule would help.

 

All in all though a fairly decent documentry. Not many answers but I think youth is the key to producing better players for the National side. I think we will get a bit better. But I still believe that the domestic league needs some serious reorganisation and funding to make it better for everyone and not just a circus for the OF.

[Jambo dans les Pyrenees]

is it, though? He knew there was millions to be made in sales.

I hadn't really considered that so you could be right that may have been a factor. I think quite a few were already away before then though such as O'Connor, Riordan and Murray. Brown and Whittiker also left at about the same time as the dispute so not sure that would have changed things.

 

I am astounded the Tache is still there though after all these years and some of the strokes he has pulled. We would have run him out of town.

[hueyview]

I hadn't really considered that so you could be right that may have been a factor. I think quite a few were already away before then though such as O'Connor, Riordan and Murray. Brown and Whittiker also left at about the same time as the dispute so not sure that would have changed things.

 

I am astounded the Tache is still there though after all these years and some of the strokes he has pulled. We would have run him out of town.

the tache appears immovable...........hibs are getting 14000/15000 average gates, much better than they got in the top league.  funny old game.