Beverley Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 just about to start this now. have heard so many good things about it, so looking forwards to it. haven't read the thread, but mate told me that once i finish it, i'll spend at least another 10 hours googling the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gordons Gloves Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Episode 4 down, and **** me! Can't get over the way that Brendan's lawyer and his investigator acted. Episode 5 and 6 tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted January 6, 2016 Author Share Posted January 6, 2016 Episode 4 down, and **** me! Can't get over the way that Brendan's lawyer and his investigator acted. Episode 5 and 6 tonight. You won't read this post until you are done, but... Wait until the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The victim`s brother is a right creepy B******! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Finished this last night. Wow, what a show. Like everyone has said, I cannot believe either of them were convicted on the evidence provided. How could anyone say they were definitely guilty? Brendan was particularly harrowing. Poor guy didn't have a clue what was going on, bullied into a confession. What's even worse is that they showed the bullying interrogation in the courtroom and still found him guilty! I don't think I've ever disliked anyone on a TV show more than Kratz. Was not in the least surprised that he turned out to be a beast. Thought the brother was well shady. I was not fond of his demeanor one bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Beat me to it Walter Edited January 6, 2016 by Riddley Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Fredrickson Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Kratz reminded me of Chris Robinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 The victim`s brother is a right creepy B******! As was the ex boyfriend. Gave me the willies when he was looking smug about breaking into her phone records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboHeriot Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Didn't really think of how much media coverage there was of the pre-trial hearings. In the UK that's something we'd never see. We are aware that these things are happening, but interviews with the lawyers of both sides? Never seen anything like it from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Didn't really think of how much media coverage there was of the pre-trial hearings. In the UK that's something we'd never see. We are aware that these things are happening, but interviews with the lawyers of both sides? Never seen anything like it from memory. It is like an interview you would conduct with a manager after a football match. Incredible that peoples lives are in these peoples hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboHeriot Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 It is like an interview you would conduct with a manager after a football match. Incredible that peoples lives are in these peoples hands. Indeed. I think it also added to the sense of surrealness for me, on reflection. It seemed almost manufactured at times because of the interviews. What a mess of a legal system they have over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Also it showed that these prosecuters are not really interested in finding out the truth only getting a conviction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Believer Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Unbelievable that Brandon was treated the way he was by the police/prosecutors. It was absolutely heartbreaking to hear him asking if he would be home to watch the wrestling when he was facing life in jail. As for Steven - Since I would personally give a life sentence to anybody who deliberately doused a cat in petrol and threw it onto a fire, my sympathy for him has abated considerably since watching the show, and since the filmakers appear to have deliberately played down that (and other) facts then I think they've done us all a disservice by opening the whole thing up to quite reasonable claims that the full details have not been disclosed fairly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 (edited) Unbelievable that Brandon was treated the way he was by the police/prosecutors. It was absolutely heartbreaking to hear him asking if he would be home to watch the wrestling when he was facing life in jail. As for Steven - Since I would personally give a life sentence to anybody who deliberately doused a cat in petrol and threw it onto a fire, my sympathy for him has abated considerably since watching the show, and since the filmakers appear to have deliberately played down that (and other) facts then I think they've done us all a disservice by opening the whole thing up to quite reasonable claims that the full details have not been disclosed fairly. Why did the defence allow the prosecution to omit the last 1 and a half hours of the video where he was telling his mum that they were making him say the things he had said. Edited January 6, 2016 by vegas-voss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Believer Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Why did the defence allow the prosecution to omit the last 1 and a half hours of the video where he was telling his mum that they were making him say the things he had said. I honestly don't know it seems crazy to me that it wasn't taken into account. I don't think that he was capable of standing trial without considerable extra help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigC Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 I honestly don't know it seems crazy to me that it wasn't taken into account. I don't think that he was capable of standing trial without considerable extra help. Yeah, his second defence lawyer was still useless. Better than the first, but that's like saying Stevie Frail was better than Malofeev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartex Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Only finished episode 2 but struggling to see how he is not guilty? - She definitely visited his home that day - Her car was found on his property - Her burnt remains were found on his property - Her car key was found in his room, covered in his DNA - His blood was found in her car Only 2 episodes in and not read the only posts, so I'm guessing more is revealed later down the line but seems pretty conclusive to me at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Only finished episode 2 but struggling to see how he is not guilty? - She definitely visited his home that day - Her car was found on his property - Her burnt remains were found on his property - Her car key was found in his room, covered in his DNA - His blood was found in her car Only 2 episodes in and not read the only posts, so I'm guessing more is revealed later down the line but seems pretty conclusive to me at this stage. Your struggling to see how he's not guilty after 2 episodes. Come back after a few more and let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 6 episodes in and all I can say is it the whole thing stinks to high heaven. Avery and his family are definitely wrong uns but that doesn't mean he killed this woman. The brother and the boyfriend give me the creeps as does that prosecutor. I'll make a final judgement once I've watched the rest but even now I'm struggling to see how he can be convicted there appears to be holes all over the place as far as a conviction goes. Compulsive viewing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirky Jambo Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Ive avoided reading the thread for fear of spoilers, so apologies if posted already, but is it just me or is Sheriff Peterson the spitting image of Chris Robinson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Me and the Mrs have just finished episode 6 last night. They never found anything in 7 visits to the yard, then found the keys sat in open view in a corner The "justice" system is so corrupt and ****ed up, just goes to show you if they have a problem with you they can get you on anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Me and the Mrs have just finished episode 6 last night. They never found anything in 7 visits to the yard, then found the keys sat in open view in a corner The "justice" system is so corrupt and messed up, just goes to show you if they have a problem with you they can get you on anything. Don't forget the fact that another police officer from the other force said he searched that area and also picked up the slipper/shoe and there was nothing under there. They carried out 18 searches in total and despite the prosecutions claims of where the murder took place they found no evidence to back it up. So many things occurred that should have resulted in a mistrial at worst. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Don't forget the fact that another police officer from the other force said he searched that area and also picked up the slipper/shoe and there was nothing under there. They carried out 18 searches in total and despite the prosecutions claims of where the murder took place they found no evidence to back it up. So many things occurred that should have resulted in a mistrial at worst. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk The whole slitting the throat and sexual assault stuff with no evidence at all to prove it happened.I know those charges eventually got thrown out but its all still in the jury minds. The bone forensic team that never got full control of the site but they did say the bones coukd not be burned in a pit that size but the other women said they could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chester copperpot Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 The whole slitting the throat and sexual assault stuff with no evidence at all to prove it happened.I know those charges eventually got thrown out but its all still in the jury minds. The bone forensic team that never got full control of the site but they did say the bones coukd not be burned in a pit that size but the other women said they could. Not in both cases they didn't as Brendan got convicted of mutilation of a body, which I find totally incredible when Steven's charge of this was found not guilty. ****ing mental that trial likes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomuzz Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 im around episode 8. like others i found her brother to be very wierd. but i have an inclination it was Bredens fsther that done it. doesnt seem to like steven and would know that the police would love to nail him. defos some foul play at hand too, woth evidence planting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Kratz reminded me of Chris Robinson My thoughts exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Just finished 8 and about to go on to brendans trial now so stopped reading after the comment I quoted above. How the jury could without any reasonable doubt find avery guilty with all the holes in the searches, statements and evidence is a mystery. The excused jurors interview was very telling I thought. All but 3 convinced of his guilt at the he start of deliberations and only 2 unsure while the rest thought him innocent bit felt they were weak. It should not have been tried in the county as it seems that held a lot of sway in the final convictions. One I finish the last 2, probably after I get home from work tonight, I will definitely be looking deeper into this. I have a friend in wisconsin who I'll be asking about the representation through the media and see what she recalls as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I watched this documentary in two days including a six hour marathon on Hogmanay. Yes I am a sad ******* with no friends. It is utterly compelling viewing from the first minute to the last. Another example, if any was needed, of how far ahead of its rivals Netflix has become not only in terms of content but also in its delivery of that content. Watching the film I have to admit I found myself completely sympathetic towards Steven Avery and was firmly convinced of his innocence. So much so that I was certain there would be a confession by some other party by the end of the film. However, having completed it and subsequently had a few days to digest it, I now find myself thinking slightly differently. There are a few points I'd like to cover if I may. There is no doubt in my mind that Brendan Dassey is completely innocent of all the charges levelled against him. It was chilling to watch a young boy with below average intelligence being manipulated, frightened and coerced into implicating himself in the grisly murder of a women by two much older, smarter men, who had clearly been well trained in achieving this very outcome. Watching the two detectives interrogate Brendan over and over, each time without a lawyer or parent present, really was disturbing. A horrible insight into how vulnerable an individual can be against a group with power and an agenda. Giving Fassbender and Weigert the benefit of the doubt, that they didn't afford Dassey, I can only assume they were so convinced of Brendans guilt that they were blinded to their own involvement in his confession. Secondly the film clearly seeks to paint Avery as an unfortunate and unwitting stooge in the hands of a vindictive Manitowic County Sheriff and Police department. Obviously this is the most appealing angle for the filmmakers to take as it puts the viewer firmly in Stevens camp and gives us something to root for. To put it bluntly it gives us a good guy and a bad guy. The reality is not quiet as it seems I suspect. The Avery clan appear to be at best unconventional and at worst downright ignorant in their own downfall. As the documentary states Steven Avery served time in prison prior to the sexual assault for a crime involving a cat doused in petrol being thrown into a fire in which he apparently plead no contest. Not to mention the incident in which ran his cousin off the road and confronted her with a rifle and numerous other petty juvenile crimes such as burglary and theft. A very basic investagatory search online reveals the Sherrif and Police departments of Manatowic County were no strangers to the Avery salvage yard. From what I can gather there were many incidents of drunkeness, assault and domestic disputes that needed the intervention of the authorities. All this culminates of course with the disappearance of Teresa Halbach. Again I have to reiterate watching each episode unfold with its many twists and turns I was taken by the story of a poor uneducated man being railroaded into prison on trumped up charges. However the cold hard facts do paint a slightly different picture. What we we know for certain is as follows. Teresa Halbach went to the Avery salvage yard on October 31 as a freelance photographer working on behalf of Autotrader magazine to take pictures of a minivan. Steven Avery testified that she did indeed arrive at the yard and photographed the van. She was never seen again, at any time, anywhere or by anybody else. That very same night Steven Avery again testifies that he lit and tended to a large fire. Days later the charred remains of Teresa Halbach were found at the Avery salvage yard mere feet from Steven Averys bedroom in the exact vicinity of the fire he himself had set. Although not mentioned in the documentary, Teresa Halbachs camera, phone and contents of her purse were found in a barrel burnt yards from Steven Averys bedroom. Teresa Halbachs vehicle was found at the Avery salvage yard with her blood and the blood of one other person inside it. That blood was of course Steven Averys. The keys to Teresa Halbachs vehicle were found in Steven Averys bedroom. Faced with these facts it is hard to disagree that Steven Avery has to be the main suspect. Yes, we were led to believe, there was some doubt over the authenticity of the test which claimed there was no preservative in the blood. Yes, there appear to be huge doubts over when, how and by who the keys were found. Yes, there does not seem to be an obvious motive. And finally, yes, it does appear the authorities had as one of the lawyers put it "tunnel vision" and in their haste to convict Steven Avery failed to follow correct procedure which may have led to some other avenues being investigated. In conclusion, if I had to guess, I would say it's likely that Steven Avery did in fact kill Teresa Halbach. For a reason unknown and, not as the police claimed independently in the two separate trials, either in his bedroom or in his garage but in some other location. This would explain the lack of blood and DNA evidence at the salvage yard. I suspect he followed her somewhere murdered her and transported her body back to the yard in her own vehicle where he burnt her remains. This would explain the blood inside the vehicle. It seems he attempted to conceal her vehicle, not very well I might add, with the intention of breaking it down and crushing it at a later date. Having said all this if I was on that Jury I would have to think long and hard about sending a man to prison for the rest of his life based on what is ultimately speculation. Unfortunately that is the responsibility that rests on a jurors shoulders. It is a far from perfect system and one that hasn't been bettered as of yet anywhere in the world. Ironically I myself have just been called up to jury duty at the Sherrif Court later this month. Having never taken part in our own justice system it will be illuminating to say the least. But then that would defeat their "evidence" of bullets in the garage and the opinion they had that she was tied to the bed and had her throat slit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 yeah i'm confused about the kidnapping and sexual assault. either i've missed a bit somewhere or they imagined that up themseves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomuzz Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 im around episode 8. like others i found her brother to be very wierd. but i have an inclination it was Bredens fsther that done it. doesnt seem to like steven and would know that the police would love to nail him. defos some foul play at hand too, woth evidence planting. not brendena father... another guy..think it qas an uncle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamborossco Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 my mates have been telling me about this and there was an article about it in today's paper. going to start watching tonight, looking forward to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just finished it. Terrifying to think that an innocent man like brendans could be in jail so long so the cops/state/lawyers could get a conviction. Need to look this up more. Genuinely upsetting to see his sister in the docks too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Would anything like this be able to happen in Britain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Her brother and ex seem very fishy. Also Bobby Massey surely should have been a suspect! The brother was weird. I guess he just wanted to see someone be convicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Watched it all. Avery is probably guilty. Although you could never really convict him on evidence. What it showed me was that the American justice system is designed to get a conviction at all costs. How many police, etc on the prosecution side were total scumbags!! This story here is another ridiculous miscarriage of justice. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/robert-jones-julie-stott-murder-10484930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just finished it all. Was brilliant TV. I really hate fassbender and Kratz (he does look like Robinson!) have to say I feel heart sorry for Brendan, they've essentially sent a 6 year old to jail. I'm still undecided about Steve, I think it's 100% certain that the police tampered with evidence - the whole key situation... I mean WTF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Just finished it all. Was brilliant TV. I really hate fassbender and Kratz (he does look like Robinson!) have to say I feel heart sorry for Brendan, they've essentially sent a 6 year old to jail. I'm still undecided about Steve, I think it's 100% certain that the police tampered with evidence - the whole key situation... I mean WTF. Good all Kreepy Katz the sex pest. Worst one for me was detective Lenk. Absolute Cretin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Lenk and Katz were horrible horrible men. The only shock about Katz being a sex pest though was that it was females he was harassing. I felt certain he was gay Other than the situation with brendans, I felt heart sorry for averys mum. For all they're not perhaps a family you'd want to live beside or associate with, she seemed nice enough. That whole thing tore the poor woman apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Absolutely compelling viewing. From the evidence presented in the series, and the way it is presented, I can only conclude both convictions are unsafe. I simply don't believe either of them did it, certainly not in the way apparently presented by the prosecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrekeo Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Fantastic watch, although equally infuriating and depressing. I'm struggling to think of anything I've ever watched where I disliked and/or mistrusted almost everyone in it (with the exception of Strang and Buting). And even then, if they believed in Avery after the conviction, why didn't trey work pro-bono? Kratz, Kachinsky, O'Kelly, Lenk, Peterson, Willis all deserve to have their reputations dragged through the mud. It may not be perfect but when looking at their press coverage and judicial system, we should be grateful for the UK court system. Edited January 9, 2016 by Shrekeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Fantastic watch, although equally infuriating and depressing. I'm struggling to think of anything I've ever watched where I disliked and/or mistrusted almost everyone in it (with the exception of Strang and Buting). And even then, if they believed in Avery after the conviction, why didn't trey work pro-bono? You mean work permanently on the case, for free? I can think of some reasons why not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Loblaw Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I read yesterday that he's got a new lawyer who's taking up his case and they will work alongside The Innocence Project. Did they not refuse to help him after previously using him for publicity? Sounds like that's exactly what they are after again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I read yesterday that he's got a new lawyer who's taking up his case and they will work alongside The Innocence Project. Did they not refuse to help him after previously using him for publicity? Sounds like that's exactly what they are after again. They helped him with the false rape conviction. Understandably, they distanced themselves from him as the murder case publicly mounted against him. They rejected his personal plea for help after his conviction, probably without having the benefit of seeing this documentary which hadn't been made yet. Not surprised that they might want to get involved again now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zico Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Finished this last night and it was fascinating, compelling viewing. It astounds me that a guilty verdict could be returned on Steven Avery - you could drive a bus through the holes in his case. And the treatment of Brendan Dassey is an absolute disgrace. As others have said, the behaviour of Katz, Lenk, Kachinsky, O'Kelly etc is abhorrent but at least Strang, Buting and others on Avery's various defence teams give you some faith. A first class documentary series that hopefully helps to get them both publicity and justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 6 episodes in and all I can say is it the whole thing stinks to high heaven. Avery and his family are definitely wrong uns but that doesn't mean he killed this woman. The brother and the boyfriend give me the creeps as does that prosecutor. I'll make a final judgement once I've watched the rest but even now I'm struggling to see how he can be convicted there appears to be holes all over the place as far as a conviction goes. Compulsive viewing though. Kratz is the creepiest of creepy weasels. His voice gives me the heebiejeebies. Was reading the other night about how he has been harassing domestic abuse victims and demanding sex under the threat of letting their abusers off with charges if they don't comply. Horrible horrible man. There's so many horrible people involved in this story... The Most Garbage People In ?Making A Murderer,? Ranked In Order Of Their Loathsomeness - http://www.thefrisky.com/2016-01-06/the-most-garbage-people-in-making-a-murderer-ranked-in-order-of-their-loathsomeness/ It's a terrible injustice for both Avery and Dassey but it's the young lad that I've been thinking about most. I can't believe he's sitting in a prison, just can't believe it. Horrific. The things he said...so heartbreaking. 'Confessing' to this ridiculously savage and brutal murder then reminding the detectives that he had to be back at school that afternoon to present a project. Argh. Telling them that he "just guessed stuff, like I do with my homework". That ******* lawyer of his Kachinsky and the evil investigator guy should be up on criminal charges themselves for what they did to this young guy. So wrong. So so wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Ramsay Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Kratz definitely has a Chris Robinson feel to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Oh and while the brother and the ex are creepy as hell, I can't help think they should have taken a much closer look at Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey. They were each other's alibis plus a load of the stuff they said was contradicted by other (more trustworthy) witnesses. They told a few lies. They were around on the yard that day, they had a .22 rifle (her skull fragments showed she'd been shot in the head by a .22) which Tadych tried to sell in days following Teresa's disappearance. They had access to all the places where her remains were found. Tadych hated Steven Avery too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Lenk and Katz were horrible horrible men. The only shock about Katz being a sex pest though was that it was females he was harassing. I felt certain he was gay Other than the situation with brendans, I felt heart sorry for averys mum. For all they're not perhaps a family you'd want to live beside or associate with, she seemed nice enough. That whole thing tore the poor woman apart. Add Andy Colborn to the list. In both cases, he didn't answer one single question convincingly and looked totally out his depth. The creep was everywhere, shouldn't have been anywhere near the Teresa case after his deposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beverley Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 ah yes i forgot about colborn. i just can't get averys mother and brendan out my head though. as awful as this horrible crime must have been for halbachs family, and they must have been in turmoil over this as well. that poor boy in prison simply because he was so below average intelligence, he was used as a pawn then hung out to dry with literally no support from those who should have protected him. even at 26 (i think) at the end of the doco, he still just looked like a terrified little boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Am I the only one who finds Teresa's brother to be a smug, deluded piece of s##t as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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