Making a Murderer (contains spoilers)

[BigC]

Anyone else watched this on Netflix?

 

I started it last night and ended up watching 5 episodes, staying up until 3am, then got up today and finished it.

 

It's about a case in the US and potential miscarriages of justice, which I won't go into too much detail about, but it's absolutely compelling viewing if you like real life crime/courtroom stories.

 

There will possibly be spoilers further down the thread so if you've not seen it, give it a watch, then come back and chat!

[Riddley Walker]

I was going to start a thread on this as well, was terrified to open it in case you had any spoilers.

 

Watched the first 4 and agree with BigC, outstanding and compelling viewing. Going to watch another 2 or 3 tonight, can't wait.

[Carl Fredrickson]

I have watched all 10 episodes and mentioned it on the "Recommend a TV series" thread. 

 

I dare not post my thoughts on it just now as it would contain spoilers. 

 

Needless to say I have spent a lot of time reading up on the cases. 

 

Happy to discuss this once others have finished watching it.........

[No Nonsense]

Finished it yesterday; one of the best documentaries I've watched. Great insight into how warped the American justice system can be. Some of the stuff the state are allowed to get up to and then present as evidence is bewildering. How anyone can get a fair trial with the amount of commentary the public get pre-trial is also bewildering.

[Raymond Reddington]

Im half way through its definatley worth a watch.

[jambomartin]

Anyone else watched this on Netflix?

 

I started it last night and ended up watching 5 episodes, staying up until 3am, then got up today and finished it.

 

It's about a case in the US and potential miscarriages of justice, which I won't go into too much detail about, but it's absolutely compelling viewing if you like real life crime/courtroom stories.

 

There will possibly be spoilers further down the thread so if you've not seen it, give it a watch, then come back and chat!

 

 

Its addictive viewing.  Ive watched the first 5

[Carl Fredrickson]

I dont normally get vocal when watching TV or movies but I did find myself shouting swearies at the tv a lot when watching this. 

[Raymond Reddington]

I dont normally get vocal when watching TV or movies but I did find myself shouting swearies at the tv a lot when watching this.

Yeah me too.

[Rudi123]

Was waiting on this thread popping up,been obsessed with it ever since watching it, so many "how the **** was that allowed to happen" moments,

[BigC]

OK, we are a dozen posts in, I'm going to start talking about the programme.

 

If you have not finished it, stop reading now. There will be spoilers beyond this point...

 

I'll start with only half a spoiler because it's obvious as soon as this guy is introduced, so won't affect your enjoyment of the show... But how bad is Brendan's first lawyer... admitting that he was guilty before even speaking to him.

[Carl Fredrickson]

I will hold off adding my tuppence worth until others have posted. Sooooo many things that are just wrong about the whole thing. 

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

OK, we are a dozen posts in, I'm going to start talking about the programme.

 

If you have not finished it, stop reading now. There will be spoilers beyond this point...

 

I'll start with only half a spoiler because it's obvious as soon as this guy is introduced, so won't affect your enjoyment of the show... But how bad is Brendan's first lawyer... admitting that he was guilty before even speaking to him.

His lawyer was an absolute idiot. He definitely wanted him to plead guilty.

 

 

I don't believe either of them were guilty in the murder case. The blood vile being opened absolutely proved Avery was set up by the Sherriff department in my opinion. Add that to the keys just appearing in the trailer and the dodgy bullet.

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Gavsy Van Gaverson

[Rudi123]

His lawyer was an absolute idiot. He definitely wanted him to plead guilty.

 

 

I don't believe either of them were guilty in the murder case. The blood vile being opened absolutely proved Avery was set up by the Sherriff department in my opinion. Add that to the keys just appearing in the trailer and the dodgy bullet.

 

The key is just absolutely ridiculous and i just cant get my head around how everyone just seemed to just let it go, so many blatantly obvious examples of tampering etc Edited January 3, 2016 by Rudi123

[BigC]

I'd have to say I reckon it's about 50/50 that it was Steve, given that the documentary does seem to be fairly biased towards him, but the whole thing stinks to the point that there is so much reasonable doubt a conviction should just not be possible.

 

And Brendan is so clearly and obviously innocent of nothing other than stupidity, yet they are still going after him. At what point does a prosecutor say "d'you know what, I'm giving up on this because there is clearly no evidence against him"?

[NewYorkJambo]

His lawyer was an absolute idiot. He definitely wanted him to plead guilty.

 

 

I don't believe either of them were guilty in the murder case. The blood vile being opened absolutely proved Avery was set up by the Sherriff department in my opinion. Add that to the keys just appearing in the trailer and the dodgy bullet.

 

Nothing in the documentary "absolute proved" anything either guilty or not. That's why the show is so compelling. Personally I think the Uncle is probably guilty and Brendan innocent.

 

I thought it was an excellent and highly addictive show.

 

I did a lot of reading afterwards though and was disappointed to find out the documentary makers allegedly deliberately left out some of the prosecutions case. There are multiple news stories saying Steven insisted on it being her and nobody else

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-prosecutor-ken-kratz-claims-netflix-documentary-left-out-key-evidence-a6793811.html

Edited January 4, 2016 by NewYorkJambo

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Nothing in the documentary "absolute proved" anything either guilty or not. That's why the show is so compelling. Personally I think the Uncle is probably guilty and Brendan innocent.

 

I thought it was an excellent and highly addictive show.

 

I did a lot of reading afterwards though and was disappointed to find out the documentary makers allegedly deliberately left out some of the prosecutions case. There are multiple news stories saying Steven insisted on it being her and nobody else

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-prosecutor-ken-kratz-claims-netflix-documentary-left-out-key-evidence-a6793811.html

Ok, it didn't absolutely prove but it left me feeling that evidence had definitely been tampered with. Due to that I couldn't see how the jury could prove without any reasonable doubt that Avery was guilty. Edited January 4, 2016 by Gavsy Van Gaverson

[jambotea]

I have seen a few of these. The questioning of Brendan was ridiculous. Anything said should not have been allowed as evidence as a start as they did not have his parents permission to question him alone. Basically tormented him until he said what they want. Anyone else notice the attitude of the cops when filming for evidence in the compound? Basically laughing away, like haha we can frame you again. Not saying Steven is completely innocent here either but with a justice system so corrupt how can a conviction stand?

 

Sent from my PLK-L01 using Tapatalk

[Carl Fredrickson]

OK here are my thoughts.....

 

 

Steven Avery was a guy who had a history of crime - from burglary to dousing a cat with petrol and throwing it on a fire to threatening a girlfriend with a gun. 

 

 

I do not think that there is any doubt that the cops were lying and fabricated a number of items of evidence. Off the back of the show, I have spent a bit of time reading lots of sites on internet about it. 

I dont know how reliable they are some state evidence that was presented at the trials that wasnt shown on the Netflix show.

The main one was that Brendan said that he was with Steven when they hid the Rav4 and that Steven said he would remove a battery connector to stop the car being stolen. Stevens DNA was found under the bonnet of the Rav4. Was this true or was it planted. 

A number of sites stated that they did not think that Steven and Brendan were innocent of the crimes but they shouldnt have been found guilty with the evidence that was presented at the trials. Some think the police may have planted evidence to try and ensure the convictions ? especially with the history of the previous case.

My own thoughts are that the Avery family is the kind of family that most towns or villages have. They may cause issues with neighbours, break a few laws and generally not be popular. However this does not mean they deserve what they have been through (twice). I felt heartbroken for Stevens mums and dads and I also feel for the victims family too.

 

[Rudolf's Mate]

Only 3 episodes in but it's jaw dropping already. I've not read anything other than the first post in case it gives it away!

 

I was put off with it being a true life documentary however this is a must see.

[BigC]

I don't think anyone is 100% convinced that Steven is innocent. He's a wrong 'un at best, and guilty at worst.

 

The thing that makes it so shocking is the fact that a conviction can still be secured with so much doubt over the case against the defendant.

 

The guy checking the number plate two days before the car is found, the blood sample tampering and the fact that there was no blood splatter in the garage could easily cast enough doubt on their own... The fact that the defence was able to present all three, not to mention the other bits and pieces that didn't add up, not to mention that the police had a clear grudge... yet still the judge didn't see fit to throw out the case and the jury didn't see grounds for an acquittal, just shows how much the American public at large go into a case assuming that if the police think he's guilty, he's guilty.

 

It's also a sad reflection on how the media's dramatisation of every court case is not in the best interest of justice.

[Carl Fredrickson]

Re the policeman calling in the number plate. I read on a site of a female who claims she contacted the police as she thought her German husband was involved with the murder. 

 

She said he confessed to the killing and said where the crime took place. It was in a barn which was then destroyed in a fire..... She claimed that any evidence would have been destroyed on the fire. She posted where it was on the site and that you could see it on Google earth but not on streetview. 

 

The poster moved away to another state and returned a few years later and her husband moved to another country. She says when she started digging around about the Avery case that she started to get persecuted by the cops. 

 

I cant mind the name of the site (maybe Reddit) but other posters seemed to think she was genuine. 

 

Again, I find it hard to know who/what to believe. 

 

The one thing that strikes me as I have been a foreman on a jury, is how on earth the jury couldnt think that there was no reasonable doubt. 

 

The guy who was on the jury but was excused for a family crisis has been quite vocal about the verdict too. I read that one of the jury was the husband of someone who works (worked?) in the department where the blood sample was tampered with and another member of the jury was related to the police chief! 

 

How on earth could they be impartial????

Edited January 4, 2016 by Carl Fredrickson

[mrmarkus1981]

3 episodes in. Bonkers

 

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

Edited January 4, 2016 by mrmarkus1981

[matt84]

I watched this documentary in two days including a six hour marathon on Hogmanay. Yes I am a sad ******* with no friends.

 

It is utterly compelling viewing from the first minute to the last. Another example, if any was needed, of how far ahead of its rivals Netflix has become not only in terms of content but also in its delivery of that content.

 

Watching the film I have to admit I found myself completely sympathetic towards Steven Avery and was firmly convinced of his innocence. So much so that I was certain there would be a confession by some other party by the end of the film.

 

However, having completed it and subsequently had a few days to digest it, I now find myself thinking slightly differently.

 

There are a few points I'd like to cover if I may.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that Brendan Dassey is completely innocent of all the charges levelled against him.

 

It was chilling to watch a young boy with below average intelligence being manipulated, frightened and coerced into implicating himself in the grisly murder of a women by two much older, smarter men, who had clearly been well trained in achieving this very outcome.

 

Watching the two detectives interrogate Brendan over and over, each time without a lawyer or parent present, really was disturbing. A horrible insight into how vulnerable an individual can be against a group with power and an agenda.

 

Giving Fassbender and Weigert the benefit of the doubt, that they didn't afford Dassey, I can only assume they were so convinced of Brendans guilt that they were blinded to their own involvement in his confession.

 

Secondly the film clearly seeks to paint Avery as an unfortunate and unwitting stooge in the hands of a vindictive Manitowic County Sheriff and Police department.

 

Obviously this is the most appealing angle for the filmmakers to take as it puts the viewer firmly in Stevens camp and gives us something to root for. To put it bluntly it gives us a good guy and a bad guy.

 

The reality is not quiet as it seems I suspect.

 

The Avery clan appear to be at best unconventional and at worst downright ignorant in their own downfall.

 

As the documentary states Steven Avery served time in prison prior to the sexual assault for a crime involving a cat doused in petrol being thrown into a fire in which he apparently plead no contest. Not to mention the incident in which ran his cousin off the road and confronted her with a rifle and numerous other petty juvenile crimes such as burglary and theft.

 

A very basic investagatory search online reveals the Sherrif and Police departments of Manatowic County were no strangers to the Avery salvage yard. From what I can gather there were many incidents of drunkeness, assault and domestic disputes that needed the intervention of the authorities.

 

All this culminates of course with the disappearance of Teresa Halbach.

 

Again I have to reiterate watching each episode unfold with its many twists and turns I was taken by the story of a poor uneducated man being railroaded into prison on trumped up charges. However the cold hard facts do paint a slightly different picture.

 

What we we know for certain is as follows.

 

Teresa Halbach went to the Avery salvage yard on October 31 as a freelance photographer working on behalf of Autotrader magazine to take pictures of a minivan.

 

Steven Avery testified that she did indeed arrive at the yard and photographed the van.

 

She was never seen again, at any time, anywhere or by anybody else.

 

That very same night Steven Avery again testifies that he lit and tended to a large fire.

 

Days later the charred remains of Teresa Halbach were found at the Avery salvage yard mere feet from Steven Averys bedroom in the exact vicinity of the fire he himself had set.

 

Although not mentioned in the documentary, Teresa Halbachs camera, phone and contents of her purse were found in a barrel burnt yards from Steven Averys bedroom.

 

Teresa Halbachs vehicle was found at the Avery salvage yard with her blood and the blood of one other person inside it. That blood was of course Steven Averys.

 

The keys to Teresa Halbachs vehicle were found in Steven Averys bedroom.

 

Faced with these facts it is hard to disagree that Steven Avery has to be the main suspect.

 

Yes, we were led to believe, there was some doubt over the authenticity of the test which claimed there was no preservative in the blood.

 

Yes, there appear to be huge doubts over when, how and by who the keys were found.

 

Yes, there does not seem to be an obvious motive.

 

And finally, yes, it does appear the authorities had as one of the lawyers put it "tunnel vision" and in their haste to convict Steven Avery failed to follow correct procedure which may have led to some other avenues being investigated.

 

In conclusion, if I had to guess, I would say it's likely that Steven Avery did in fact kill Teresa Halbach.

 

For a reason unknown and, not as the police claimed independently in the two separate trials, either in his bedroom or in his garage but in some other location. This would explain the lack of blood and DNA evidence at the salvage yard.

 

I suspect he followed her somewhere murdered her and transported her body back to the yard in her own vehicle where he burnt her remains. This would explain the blood inside the vehicle.

 

It seems he attempted to conceal her vehicle, not very well I might add, with the intention of breaking it down and crushing it at a later date.

 

Having said all this if I was on that Jury I would have to think long and hard about sending a man to prison for the rest of his life based on what is ultimately speculation.

 

Unfortunately that is the responsibility that rests on a jurors shoulders. It is a far from perfect system and one that hasn't been bettered as of yet anywhere in the world.

 

Ironically I myself have just been called up to jury duty at the Sherrif Court later this month. Having never taken part in our own justice system it will be illuminating to say the least.

[Walter Bishop]

I watched this documentary in two days including a six hour marathon on Hogmanay. Yes I am a sad ******* with no friends.

 

It is utterly compelling viewing from the first minute to the last. Another example, if any was needed, of how far ahead of its rivals Netflix has become not only in terms of content but also in its delivery of that content.

 

Watching the film I have to admit I found myself completely sympathetic towards Steven Avery and was firmly convinced of his innocence. So much so that I was certain there would be a confession by some other party by the end of the film.

 

However, having completed it and subsequently had a few days to digest it, I now find myself thinking slightly differently.

 

There are a few points I'd like to cover if I may.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that Brendan Dassey is completely innocent of all the charges levelled against him.

 

It was chilling to watch a young boy with below average intelligence being manipulated, frightened and coerced into implicating himself in the grisly murder of a women by two much older, smarter men, who had clearly been well trained in achieving this very outcome.

 

Watching the two detectives interrogate Brendan over and over, each time without a lawyer or parent present, really was disturbing. A horrible insight into how vulnerable an individual can be against a group with power and an agenda.

 

Giving Fassbender and Weigert the benefit of the doubt, that they didn't afford Dassey, I can only assume they were so convinced of Brendans guilt that they were blinded to their own involvement in his confession.

 

Secondly the film clearly seeks to paint Avery as an unfortunate and unwitting stooge in the hands of a vindictive Manitowic County Sheriff and Police department.

 

Obviously this is the most appealing angle for the filmmakers to take as it puts the viewer firmly in Stevens camp and gives us something to root for. To put it bluntly it gives us a good guy and a bad guy.

 

The reality is not quiet as it seems I suspect.

 

The Avery clan appear to be at best unconventional and at worst downright ignorant in their own downfall.

 

As the documentary states Steven Avery served time in prison prior to the sexual assault for a crime involving a cat doused in petrol being thrown into a fire in which he apparently plead no contest. Not to mention the incident in which ran his cousin off the road and confronted her with a rifle and numerous other petty juvenile crimes such as burglary and theft.

 

A very basic investagatory search online reveals the Sherrif and Police departments of Manatowic County were no strangers to the Avery salvage yard. From what I can gather there were many incidents of drunkeness, assault and domestic disputes that needed the intervention of the authorities.

 

All this culminates of course with the disappearance of Teresa Halbach.

 

Again I have to reiterate watching each episode unfold with its many twists and turns I was taken by the story of a poor uneducated man being railroaded into prison on trumped up charges. However the cold hard facts do paint a slightly different picture.

 

What we we know for certain is as follows.

 

Teresa Halbach went to the Avery salvage yard on October 31 as a freelance photographer working on behalf of Autotrader magazine to take pictures of a minivan.

 

Steven Avery testified that she did indeed arrive at the yard and photographed the van.

 

She was never seen again, at any time, anywhere or by anybody else.

 

That very same night Steven Avery again testifies that he lit and tended to a large fire.

 

Days later the charred remains of Teresa Halbach were found at the Avery salvage yard mere feet from Steven Averys bedroom in the exact vicinity of the fire he himself had set.

 

Although not mentioned in the documentary, Teresa Halbachs camera, phone and contents of her purse were found in a barrel burnt yards from Steven Averys bedroom.

 

Teresa Halbachs vehicle was found at the Avery salvage yard with her blood and the blood of one other person inside it. That blood was of course Steven Averys.

 

The keys to Teresa Halbachs vehicle were found in Steven Averys bedroom.

 

Faced with these facts it is hard to disagree that Steven Avery has to be the main suspect.

 

Yes, we were led to believe, there was some doubt over the authenticity of the test which claimed there was no preservative in the blood.

 

Yes, there appear to be huge doubts over when, how and by who the keys were found.

 

Yes, there does not seem to be an obvious motive.

 

And finally, yes, it does appear the authorities had as one of the lawyers put it "tunnel vision" and in their haste to convict Steven Avery failed to follow correct procedure which may have led to some other avenues being investigated.

 

In conclusion, if I had to guess, I would say it's likely that Steven Avery did in fact kill Teresa Halbach.

 

For a reason unknown and, not as the police claimed independently in the two separate trials, either in his bedroom or in his garage but in some other location. This would explain the lack of blood and DNA evidence at the salvage yard.

 

I suspect he followed her somewhere murdered her and transported her body back to the yard in her own vehicle where he burnt her remains. This would explain the blood inside the vehicle.

 

It seems he attempted to conceal her vehicle, not very well I might add, with the intention of breaking it down and crushing it at a later date.

 

Having said all this if I was on that Jury I would have to think long and hard about sending a man to prison for the rest of his life based on what is ultimately speculation.

 

Unfortunately that is the responsibility that rests on a jurors shoulders. It is a far from perfect system and one that hasn't been bettered as of yet anywhere in the world.

 

Ironically I myself have just been called up to jury duty at the Sherrif Court later this month. Having never taken part in our own justice system it will be illuminating to say the least.

There was no other evidence on her vehicle linking him. No fingerprints, nothing. 

[Carl Fredrickson]

There was no other evidence on her vehicle linking him. No fingerprints, nothing. 

 

I read that Stevens DNA was found under the bonnet of the car as he had removed a cable from the battery. 

[JamboHeriot]

Just finished this ten minutes ago. Been utterly compelled by it.

I didn't really think of the second case much to be honest, I think there probably wasn't enough evidence to convict Avery the second time. Along with Dassey's conviction, his first conviction was just ridiculous. During Dassey's interrogation I had to remind myself a few times that this actually happened and was not acted. Incredible that those videos stood up in court.

 

The overall thing I've taken it from is how the inability and misconduct of a few high up individuals can perpetuate for years. An innocent man sent to jail. The real criminal went on to rape two more people in the time he was in jail. He finally gets put down. Innocent man comes out after being stuck with serious criminals for 18 years. Probably ****s him up a bit in the head.

If a proper investigation had been made in '85 then it's likely the three people that died would still be alive, two possibly innocent men would be free and a whole lot of people wouldn't have been tormented by all the horrible things that happened.

I feel the documentary was probably made to highlight the potent miscarriage of justice in '85 and its incredible effects just as much as it was made to highlight the current battle being fought by Dassey and Avery.

Edited January 4, 2016 by JamboHeriot

[BigC]

Matt, regarding the car. Why would he put it where he put it?

 

He could have driven it into the car crusher and crushed it, then poured petrol on it and burned it, but instead he apparently parked it and leaned a few random items on it, ready for it to be found by the search party, who had been given permission to go on site and look around?

[Walter Bishop]

Her brother and ex seem very fishy. Also Bobby Massey surely should have been a suspect!

[Carl Fredrickson]

Her brother and ex seem very fishy. Also Bobby Massey surely should have been a suspect!

 

Yip but the police only had eyes for Avery - mind the conversation the cop had when he was told that the car was found " Has Steven been arrested?"

 

The fact that nobody else was treated as a suspect or investigated says a lot about the police involved. 

[chester copperpot]

I started watching this at about 9pm last night, guess who's just pulled an all nighter as I just could not stop watching it.

 

I actually had to google this was not a documentary that was made to look real as the amount of twists and turns have been compelling to say the least.

 

A definite movie being made out of this, I can guarantee that this will happen and it will be huge!

[chester copperpot]

Yip but the police only had eyes for Avery - mind the conversation the cop had when he was told that the car was found " Has Steven been arrested?"

 

The fact that nobody else was treated as a suspect or investigated says a lot about the police involved. 

 

 

Yeah they had him guilty from the start. That stuff about her phone messages and computer made me think 'Why the hell was this not investigated'

 

OJ got away with much much more compelling evidence surrounding his case, however the legal system in America seems ****ed, and hell mend you if the police don't like you, that's all I will say!

[Better call Saul]

giving it a go now ..read in the papers about this and now seeing the start of this thread I thought it looks like it has potential .

[AlimOzturk]

Watched 6 episodes last night. Watch the rest later.

 

Amazing

[mrmarkus1981]

I also watched 6 back to back yesterday. Roll on home time!!

 

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Matt, regarding the car. Why would he put it where he put it?

 

He could have driven it into the car crusher and crushed it, then poured petrol on it and burned it, but instead he apparently parked it and leaned a few random items on it, ready for it to be found by the search party, who had been given permission to go on site and look around?

Couldn't understand that either. If it was him he would have surely crushed the car and got rid of it. Not hide it under a few bushes in his own scrap yard.

[AlimOzturk]

What saddens me the most is the lad Brendan Dassey.

 

That young lad looks like he would struggle to dress himself let alone murder and slash a lassies throat. He clearly has learning issues and actually looks very autistic. He should never have been allowed to answer questions without representation and it is clear to me  he was used as a pawn to get Steven Avery.

 

IMO this whole case points at clear police corruption. I believe they planted evidence to and used other means to convict Steven Avery.

 

I cant be certain if Steve Avery did it and I am convinced no one is. That is why the jury should not have rendered a guilty verdict.

[Rudolf's Mate]

Finished it and left completely gob smacked. Because I don't want to ruin it for anyone having not watched it I'll attempt spoilers option (1st time!)

 

I personally don't think he did it however towards the end there was the niggling doubt that you just weren't sure. Despite this I have no ******* idea how they were able to obtain a conviction. Even the judge throwing out various things for the defence which should have been taken into consideration. Regardless of Steven, Brendan was found guilty on the back of his on version of events. Forget how they managed to get him to give that account. How the hell can you have a murder take place in either a room or a garage in the manner it was meant to have been carried out and there to be no DNA of the victim. They'd have you believe they were clever enough to get rid of everything from the garage but stupid enough to leave the car in the yard and not crush or dispose of it. 

 

I dare say this isn't the last we've heard of this case! I'm also at a total loss how that police department has got away with so many violations yet nobody has even been reprimanded.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Rudolf's Mate

[Carl Fredrickson]

Remember that we have not seen all the evidence that was shown at trial. Google what Netflix left out of Making A Murder - there is a lot that we havent been told yet by Netflix. 

 

Still not convinced that there is enough to convict beyond reasonable doubt

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

I've skipped to the bottom without reading anything as i only started watching this last night.  2 episodes in and i'm hooked.  Can't wait to get home from work, put the kids to bed and then ignore the wife for 3 hours while i watch this.  I'm assuming that there are plenty of spoilers above.  I'll revisit the thread when i'm done. 

[BigC]

The filmmakers were on breakfast TV today saying that one of the jurors contacted them and said they thought he was not guilty, thought he was framed by police and voted guilty because they feared for their personal safety.

 

More strong stuff!

[chester copperpot]

It totally stinks and I don't know if he did it or not, however I think it's pretty overwhelming that he shouldn't have been convicted due to the inconsistencies in the evidence!

[AlimOzturk]

Wonder what will happen with all this publicity and stuff. Surely they have the technology now to retest that blood sample and find out if it has that preservative in it. FFS why was the seal broken and a needle mark in it in the first place!

 

That is the key here. Steven Avery is not going away. 

[chester copperpot]

Wonder what will happen with all this publicity and stuff. Surely they have the technology now to retest that blood sample and find out if it has that preservative in it. FFS why was the seal broken and a needle mark in it in the first place!

 

That is the key here. Steven Avery is not going away. 

 

 

 

Can see him getting a retrial out of state as the state is too far deep in now. I was gobsmacked at the judge who was looking at the appeal was the same one who convicted him in the first place. That's just ****ing mental!!!!!

[JamboHeriot]

Can't believe Brendan Dassey didn't get a retrial. After the interrogation he went through, the awful first lawyer he was given together with his personality and behavior there will be plenty of authorities questioning the legitimacy of that trial.

[bighusref]

What's happened is a small hick town has decided to get rid of the trampy family any way they can. Trampy family may be weird and smelly and a touch illegal, but the insular town have just decided to take the law into their own hands.

 

The fact that this goes on in modern society is utterly flabbergasting.

 

My favourite part of the entire cover up was the parts where under oath two oafs made ridiculous statements.

 

1: the expert witness re testing the blood. When he was asked "what about the blood you didn't test?" Said he could say with a "scientific degree of certainty" what they contained and attested they didn't have that stuff from the bottle in them?!?!

 

2: creepy first defence lawyer for Brandon. His testament that "nope, I didn't say that" was followed by it being played back to him.

 

Apart from those parts, props to the truly scary bursd of Steven. I'm not googling it, but if that lassie he met after being released isn't dead/a killer, I'll be astonished.

[bighusref]

Also, for those that enjoyed this documentary, I'd urge you to read this before Tom Cruise (whose company owns the movie rights) make an appealing movie of it...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monster_of_Florence:_A_True_Story

[chester copperpot]

What's happened is a small hick town has decided to get rid of the trampy family any way they can. Trampy family may be weird and smelly and a touch illegal, but the insular town have just decided to take the law into their own hands.

 

The fact that this goes on in modern society is utterly flabbergasting.

 

My favourite part of the entire cover up was the parts where under oath two oafs made ridiculous statements.

 

1: the expert witness re testing the blood. When he was asked "what about the blood you didn't test?" Said he could say with a "scientific degree of certainty" what they contained and attested they didn't have that stuff from the bottle in them?!?!

 

2: creepy first defence lawyer for Brandon. His testament that "nope, I didn't say that" was followed by it being played back to him.

 

Apart from those parts, props to the truly scary bursd of Steven. I'm not googling it, but if that lassie he met after being released isn't dead/a killer, I'll be astonished.

 

 

I was gobsmacked that Brandon's defence lawyer was also working for the state in their case against Steven Avery. How the **** is that actually allowed, talk about a conflict of interests. That poor lad should not be in jail likes.

[Bob Loblaw]

I was gobsmacked that Brandon's defence lawyer was also working for the state in their case against Steven Avery. How the **** is that actually allowed, talk about a conflict of interests. That poor lad should not be in jail likes.

The private investigator openly admitting he was trying to get a confession from Brendan was horrible as were his crocodile tears for the blue ribbon.  How Brendan never got a retrial is beyond me, it was blatantly obvious his original attorney wasn't working in his best interests.

 

As for Avery, it's hard to say with certainty whether he done it or not, but so much of it stinks that I'm amazed he was convicted, or at the very least granted a retrial.

 

The key turning up after numerous searches and being found by Lenk.  No DNA of Theresa anywhere in the trailer, the inconsistencies of Barb's husband and son about when they seen her.  The ex boyfriend and room mate not being interviewed separately despite hacking into her phone records and not reporting her missing for 4 days.  So much more as well, but if you were on a jury, how could you say he was guilty beyond reasonable doubt?

[CollyWolly]

I watched this over the last 3 nights. Compelling stuff and an unbelievable miscarriage of justice in both cases.

 

How is this guy Avery capable of murdering a girl, in a short notice panic type of a way, and apparently made her into a right mess, but there is hardly a trace of  blood anywhere apart from the odd smear in her car. Cleaning up that garage or his bedroom would have been a job for Winston Wolf and a hick car salvage bloke surely couldn't have managed it so efficiently.  Your are left to conclude that she cant have been killed in the bedroom or the garage. There are loads and loads or other irregularities to say the least and I was astonished as his verdict. In anyone's book there is a cloud of reasonable doubt over him.

 

The conviction of Brandon beggars belief.

 

Tremendous documentary and a must see

[vegas-voss]

Man that was pretty complusive viewing.I dont know if they did it or not but going by what was shown in the show i dont know how they could give the verdicts they did.the blood vial for me was a huge thing why was it tampered with and had a syringe hole in the top and why did the defence then not try to discredit the fbi report in their closing up with data anylist testimony after hearing the prosecuter use the fbi testimony in his closing up.