New stand

[Allowayjambo1874]

Said it before, will say it again - a wrap around option (whether L shaped or curved around) encompassing the footprint of the main stand and Roseburn will facilitate the UEFA requirements and capacity needed.

 

Said it before, will say it again, where the hell is the ?15-20 mill coming from to make it happen? 

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Said it before, will say it again - a wrap around option (whether L shaped or curved around) encompassing the footprint of the main stand and Roseburn will facilitate the UEFA requirements and capacity needed.

Would that mean moving visitors in to the Gorgie, do you reckon?

[Homme]

Said it before, will say it again, where the hell is the ?15-20 mill coming from to make it happen?

Leave that to the people who run the club. They will see us right and they will not pay for anything we cannot afford.

 

It seems you are against investment in our future. Scared to spend a penny.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Said it before, will say it again, where the hell is the ?15-20 mill coming from to make it happen?

Your valuation is based on vague internetzing, like most of us on here. Budge has mentioned we are going to renovate, she has already proved shrewd at financing and organising things. Do you reckon she might be on top of this, while the rest of us are unable to see the creative methods needed to get the job done?

[Allowayjambo1874]

Leave that to the people who run the club. They will see us right and they will not pay for anything we cannot afford.

 

It seems you are against investment in our future. Scared to spend a penny.

 

Not at all scared to spend or investment. Just realistic about where we are after just about going down the tubes. We cannot borrow from banks, if we can get private investors to stump up the money then fair play but the truth is raising that type of cash will be dependent on big cash player sales, success in a major European competition or from the fans. None of the first two are guaranteed and the I suggest the fans have more than done their bit. 

 

It is a genuine question I am asking, where are we getting that level of cash from?

 

People talking about demolishing Tynie and rebuilding is just nuts! We have 3 perfectly good stands we need one more, we have terrific leadership and they will come up with the best for the club of that I have no doubt. 

 

I'm not the enemy mate, I am just surprised that people genuinely think we have access to tens of millions of pounds.

[Ray Gin]

Not at all scared to spend or investment. Just realistic about where we are after just about going down the tubes. We cannot borrow from banks, if we can get private investors to stump up the money then fair play but the truth is raising that type of cash will be dependent on big cash player sales, success in a major European competition or from the fans. None of the first two are guaranteed and the I suggest the fans have more than done their bit. 

 

It is a genuine question I am asking, where are we getting that level of cash from?

 

People talking about demolishing Tynie and rebuilding is just nuts! We have 3 perfectly good stands we need one more, we have terrific leadership and they will come up with the best for the club of that I have no doubt. 

 

I'm not the enemy mate, I am just surprised that people genuinely think we have access to tens of millions of pounds.

 

We have 3 stands that aren't quite long enough and too close to the pitch.

[Allowayjambo1874]

Your valuation is based on vague internetzing, like most of us on here. Budge has mentioned we are going to renovate, she has already proved shrewd at financing and organising things. Do you reckon she might be on top of this, while the rest of us are unable to see the creative methods needed to get the job done?

 

100%!! She will come up with the best solution, think people are getting a wee bit carried away though, demolishing and starting again or demolishing the Roseburn and rebuilding is, in my opinion, unrealistic. Not because it can't be done or because we all want it to be done but because financially it can't be done. (at the moment)

[Allowayjambo1874]

We have 3 stands that aren't quite long enough and too close to the pitch.

 

For European football I believe? Do they not comply with SFA regs?

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

100%!! She will come up with the best solution, think people are getting a wee bit carried away though, demolishing and starting again or demolishing the Roseburn and rebuilding is, in my opinion, unrealistic. Not because it can't be done or because we all want it to be done but because financially it can't be done. (at the moment)

Yeah, I don't see us starting again on the same site either. I probably wouldn't rule out a main stand/Roseburn stand development though. In fact, I'm starting to suspect that is the most likely scenario.

[Tasavallan]

100%!! She will come up with the best solution, think people are getting a wee bit carried away though, demolishing and starting again or demolishing the Roseburn and rebuilding is, in my opinion, unrealistic. Not because it can't be done or because we all want it to be done but because financially it can't be done. (at the moment)

Correct.  There is a big cost difference in redeveloping/upgrading an existing brown field site than developing a new stadium on a green field site.  All things being equal, building a brand new 25,000 stadium on a green field site (e.g. Sighthill?) would be cheaper than re-developing a hemmed-in Tynecastle into a 25,000 stadium. 

 

However, Hearts have only been out of administration for 14 months and need to walk before they can run financially.  I do believe that Mrs Budge wants the club to stay at a Fit for purpose Tynecastle, therefore redeveloping the stadium will likely be carried out in phases.  Phase 1 has to be the Main Stand. The old Archibald Leitch designed stand has well passed its use-by date. Re-furbishing would just be like putting lipstick on a pig.  It has to be replaced with a structure design to fit in with the other 3 stands.  

[Mr Sifter]

Nowt to add to this thread but I just wanted to say that last night on YouTube I watched us play Celtic. 1987. JC screamer, Mick McCarthy sent off. Ended 1-1. You ken the game.

 

Anyway the point I wanted to make was there was 29,000 at Tynie that day. Almost THIRTY THOUSAND at Tynecastle.

 

Those were the days eh? Can we not just put Tynie back to the way it was....I miss it dearly :-(

[Nookie Bear]

Nowt to add to this thread but I just wanted to say that last night on YouTube I watched us play Celtic. 1987. JC screamer, Mick McCarthy sent off. Ended 1-1. You ken the game.

 

Anyway the point I wanted to make was there was 29,000 at Tynie that day. Almost THIRTY THOUSAND at Tynecastle.

 

Those were the days eh? Can we not just put Tynie back to the way it was....I miss it dearly :-(

 

Terracing!

 

Maybe that can be incorporated into a new design?

[I.T.K]

Correct.  There is a big cost difference in redeveloping/upgrading an existing brown field site than developing a new stadium on a green field site.  All things being equal, building a brand new 25,000 stadium on a green field site (e.g. Sighthill?) would be cheaper than re-developing a hemmed-in Tynecastle into a 25,000 stadium. 

 

However, Hearts have only been out of administration for 14 months and need to walk before they can run financially.  I do believe that Mrs Budge wants the club to stay at a Fit for purpose Tynecastle, therefore redeveloping the stadium will likely be carried out in phases.  Phase 1 has to be the Main Stand. The old Archibald Leitch designed stand has well passed its use-by date. Re-furbishing would just be like putting lipstick on a pig.  It has to be replaced with a structure design to fit in with the other 3 stands.  

 

I think the club is in the best state of financial health that its been in for a long time. We are selling out home games and I assume we are keeping to a budget. I know we still owe Ann Budge money but that will come from FoH and I believe that is our only real debt.

 

 

I'm sure board will know how much we can spend.

[redm]

Nowt to add to this thread but I just wanted to say that last night on YouTube I watched us play Celtic. 1987. JC screamer, Mick McCarthy sent off. Ended 1-1. You ken the game.

 

Anyway the point I wanted to make was there was 29,000 at Tynie that day. Almost THIRTY THOUSAND at Tynecastle.

 

Those were the days eh? Can we not just put Tynie back to the way it was....I miss it dearly :-(

 

What were the costs back then for match tickets? Was it considered a reasonably priced day/night out, comparatively speaking? 

 

I love the fact that Ann has come in and gone so quickly from 'we must look at other options' to 'we must look at other options but prioritise staying at home in Gorgie'. She just totally gets it. I have every faith that if there's a solution to be found, she'll identify it. Or she'll identify and instruct someone capable of identifying it.

[Homme]

Celtic are installing one are they not. I guess it will depend on how that trial goes.

 

Still, you can count on the green brigade to **** it up for everyone.

[Nookie Bear]

What were the costs back then for match tickets? Was it considered a reasonably priced day/night out, comparatively speaking? 

 

I love the fact that Ann has come in and gone so quickly from 'we must look at other options' to 'we must look at other options but prioritise staying at home in Gorgie'. She just totally gets it. I have every faith that if there's a solution to be found, she'll identify it. Or she'll identify and instruct someone capable of identifying it.

 

I think I read recently, or calculated myself, that they were the equivalent of about ?15 now?

 

Totally agree with your second paragraph. Ann is the first owner in heaven knows how long in whom I have trusted to do things for the right reasons, and then to be honest with us if we cannot achieve it. It is absolutely essential she is at the heart of the future of Tynie and even more essential that her work cannot be undone when she steps down.

[Nookie Bear]

Those days are long gone imo, best we could hope for is a "safe standing area" like this..

http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/what-does-safe-standing-look-like/

 

 

 

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"What a shitey home suppoooooooort!!!"

[Nookie Bear]

[emoji3]. It's a decent read & if ever we did build a new stand something like this is worth keeping in mind. [emoji106]

 

Definitely!

[andy-y]

We have more than 9,000 fans.

8800 going by above.

[Neon]

What were the costs back then for match tickets? Was it considered a reasonably priced day/night out, comparatively speaking? 

 

I love the fact that Ann has come in and gone so quickly from 'we must look at other options' to 'we must look at other options but prioritise staying at home in Gorgie'. She just totally gets it. I have every faith that if there's a solution to be found, she'll identify it. Or she'll identify and instruct someone capable of identifying it.etty

 

Pretty sure it was 7 pounds for adults and 3/4 pounds for kids/concessions.

 

A bargain compared to todays prices, maybe 60p for a pie.

 

No idea how much for a macaroon bar.

 

[York Ninja]

Last season of the Shed (1993-94), it was ?120 for a "Ground" ticket which allowed you to stand in the Shed, School End or sit on the benches.  Walk up prices were ?6/?3 with ?7 for Cat A games.  Cup games were included in the season ticket - drawn away from home in the Scottish (Partick/Wayne Foster Derby/Oldco) but 2 games at home in the League Cup (Stranraer/Falkirk).

 

Next season Wheatfield Stand prices were ?10 for a Cat B game - a 67% increase!

[Pans Jambo]

Hypothetical and playing devil's advocate.

 

Say we were at Murrayfield two years from now for a season. Rangers are back in the SPL.

 

How many fans would Celtic, and Rangers bring for each game against us there? And should we basically let them have as many tickets as they want outside of the home sections?

 

My view is that it could be expected that Celtic and Rangers could bring up to 10,000 each, particularly if we continue to do well and Rangers and Celtic are challenging at the top. If we get to the split and they are both (and/or we are also) in the hunt for the title. You could see 15,000 to 20,000 of them wanting to come accross....

 

My view is also that for one season only we should let that happen. Milking them at say ?30 a ticket would pocket us between ?1.25m and ?1.5m over the season and possibly pay for 10% of the new stand.....

 

Thoughts?

Hypothetically gie them heehaw!!!

No wanting that shower thinking they paid for anything to do with Hearts. Got out of admin without them, build a new stand without them.

[RobNox]

Celtic are installing one are they not. I guess it will depend on how that trial goes.

 

Still, you can count on the green brigade to **** it up for everyone.

Those vermin usually turn part of the Roseburn into a standing area when they come through.

[Drewboy]

There's been a lot of posts on this thread (and others) about our ability to spend money and when we should/shouldn't invest in infrastructure and what is/isn't achievable financially. I get that there may be a credit worthiness issue but When does the "remember we're just out of admin" end?

 

 

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[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

There's been a lot of posts on this thread (and others) about our ability to spend money and when we should/shouldn't invest in infrastructure. I get that there may be a credit worthiness issue but When does the "remember we're just out of admin" end?

 

 

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I feel similarly about this. In some cases it comes across as certain folks are now scared of even sensible and controlled ambition. Not everyone obviously, but the amount of times someone uses it as a reason not to try and improve or achieve is a bit sad.

[Pans Jambo]

There's been a lot of posts on this thread (and others) about our ability to spend money and when we should/shouldn't invest in infrastructure and what is/isn't achievable financially. I get that there may be a credit worthiness issue but When does the "remember we're just out of admin" end?

 

 

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A businesses credit rating improves after a financial year of trading as long as their accounts are in good order and they have been paying their creditors on time.

Hearts credit rating before, during and after administration must have been very poor/non-existent but after the next set of accounts come out we will see a marked improvement.

So to answer your question about when does it end, I would say after we report our next set of accounts. Dont forget the account reporting is for the previous years trading and not the current year.

[DETTY29]

Clubs need to budget without OF fans income and see it as a bonus.

 

Certainly for working capital and capital projects could be an even bigger risk.

 

Two fold.

 

It gives them the power to lord over us that they are the be all and end all of Scottish football

 

And they wouldn't wipe their backside on the way out if another league would take them.

[Tommy Brown]

Clubs need to budget without OF fans income and see it as a bonus.

 

Certainly for working capital and capital projects could be an even bigger risk.

 

Two fold.

 

It gives them the power to lord over us that they are the be all and end all of Scottish football

 

And they wouldn't wipe their backside on the way out if another league would take them.

Agree entirely.

 

I would go as far as limiting te amount of live games to about six max. to force fans out from pubs and armchairs back to matches.

[Drewboy]

A businesses credit rating improves after a financial year of trading as long as their accounts are in good order and they have been paying their creditors on time.

Hearts credit rating before, during and after administration must have been very poor/non-existent but after the next set of accounts come out we will see a marked improvement.

So to answer your question about when does it end, I would say after we report our next set of accounts. Dont forget the account reporting is for the previous years trading and not the current year.

Cheers for that. I would suspect that proper business planning for short, medium and long term would also be a factor.

I would imagine that all of the business plans would factor in infrastructure projects of some sort, from phone lines to stadium reconstruction/relocation. It would be good to see a summary of the business plans unless they are commercially sensitive obviously.

 

 

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[Konrad von Carstein]

Heard today that a price has been agreed with the council for the land at the back of the main stand. In no way ITK but it would be an interesting turn of events would it not?

[Don Dan]

Heard today that a price has been agreed with the council for the land at the back of the main stand. In no way ITK but it would be an interesting turn of events would it not?

If it's true, no matter what the end result is it will be a good investment.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Heard today that a price has been agreed with the council for the land at the back of the main stand. In no way ITK but it would be an interesting turn of events would it not?

[The People's Chimp]

Heard today that a price has been agreed with the council for the land at the back of the main stand. In no way ITK but it would be an interesting turn of events would it not?

 

That would be wonderful scenes if true. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

If we spend a season at Murrayfield, I hope there are some kinds of seat plans in the less desirable sections of the stadium that go for the equivalent of ?12-15/ticket.

[Francis Albert]

If we spend a season at Murrayfield, I hope there are some kinds of seat plans in the less desirable sections of the stadium that go for the equivalent of ?12-15/ticket.

I am sure Murrayfield would allow a real test of the theory that there would be a lot more demand for tickets at lower prices. Currently the more expensive STs at Tynecastle seem to sell out quickest and I am sure there would be demand for premium seats that would not be baly affected by cheap prices for the less desirable seats. It would be an interesting experiment.

[jamboinglasgow]

Heard today that a price has been agreed with the council for the land at the back of the main stand. In no way ITK but it would be an interesting turn of events would it not?

 

an important purchase that allows us to build with more freedom, though as all things, how do we plan to pay for it (this is just a general question)

[Jambos_1874]

an important purchase that allows us to build with more freedom, though as all things, how do we plan to pay for it (this is just a general question)

I wonder if AB would consider loaning us cash at a favourable rate to cover some of the expense?

[Fxxx the SPFL]

I wonder if AB would consider loaning us cash at a favourable rate to cover some of the expense?

I believe she will make some sort of financial gesture and either forego the ?2.5m that FoH are due to pay back over the next three years or alternatively make a similar donation towards the new stand.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

I believe she will make some sort of financial gesture and either forego the ?2.5m that FoH are due to pay back over the next three years or alternatively make a similar donation towards the new stand.

 

I believe if that rumour is true, (and it's only an agreed price), that after FoH takes over the club is then in a position to go forward with plans to borrow from the bank in order to build a new stand.

 

By this point planning permission will have been submitted and approved and said agreed price will have only been payable on that term, Miss Budge will likely still be with the club due to popular support but I don't believe she is quite ready to start paying for things such as buying up land on our behalf.  

[Hungry hippo]

Think there is no chance a bank will fund it.

 

Even if they were interested in lending to football clubs the security was only valued at ?2.5m recently.

 

Ann Budge will obtain the required finance but I'd bet a lot of money it won't he trom a bank.

[corryjambo]

Think there is no chance a bank will fund it.

 

Even if they were interested in lending to football clubs the security was only valued at ?2.5m recently.

 

Ann Budge will obtain the required finance but I'd bet a lot of money it won't he trom a bank.

 

Agreed about the banks. Their days of going anywhere near a Scottish football club are well gone.

 

I am afraid that after their liberal lending policy to clubs, lead by a certain gentleman at Bank of Scotland, cost them a fortune in writing down debts no bank will give loans to football clubs in the foreseeable future.

[Winston Ingram]

A deal with the council for land behind the stand would be a relative formality. It isn't of much use to them.

 

Bigger issues would be the admin building as currently used by the club and the nursery behind the main stand. Another thing worth keeping an eye on is I think I'm right in saying NBD haven't used/touched the Tynecastle School land at all since buying it, which maybe leaves some scope for us. 

[Francis Albert]

Think there is no chance a bank will fund it.

 

Even if they were interested in lending to football clubs the security was only valued at ?2.5m recently.

 

Ann Budge will obtain the required finance but I'd bet a lot of money it won't he trom a bank.

Didn't FoH get an independent valuation of about ?4.5m?

I think if the club were to issue bonds paying say 5% pa interest (less than Ann charges) then there would be a pretty healthy take up from fans who have been happy to simply donate over ?4m to the club over the last 3 years. Bond holders could perhaps also be given a shareholding at nominal cost as with Ann's retained 13.2% of the club.

[Hungry hippo]

Didn't FoH get an independent valuation of about ?4.5m?

I think if the club were to issue bonds paying say 5% pa interest (less than Ann charges) then there would be a pretty healthy take up from fans who have been happy to simply donate over ?4m to the club over the last 3 years. Bond holders could perhaps also be given a shareholding at nominal cost as with Ann's retained 13.2% of the club.

They did get an independent valuation and my memory was that it was ?2.5m but I've been on a lot of nights out in the last month so memory getting hazy.

[martoon]

It's a matter of time before the bogus offers start arriving for the land behind the stand.

[PTBCAL]

They did get an independent valuation and my memory was that it was ?2.5m but I've been on a lot of nights out in the last month so memory getting hazy.

?4.5m thereabouts

[Hungry hippo]

?4.5m thereabouts

Not sure where I got the ?2.5m figure from. As soon as FA doubted it I knew I was probably incorrect.

 

Although my memory is failing me the initial point still stands that the funding will need to be provided from somewhere other than a bank.

[FarmerTweedy]

I believe she will make some sort of financial gesture and either forego the ?2.5m that FoH are due to pay back over the next three years or alternatively make a similar donation towards the new stand.

I don't expect her to forego the money she's owed, or make a substantial donation to the club, but I do think it's likely that she'll be willing to lend all, or at least a very sizeable chunk, of the capital required for any redevelopment at a favourable rate if funding can't be easily and cheaply found elsewhere.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

I don't expect her to forego the money she's owed, or make a substantial donation to the club, but I do think it's likely that she'll be willing to lend all, or at least a very sizeable chunk, of the capital required for any redevelopment at a favourable rate if funding can't be easily and cheaply found elsewhere.

you could be right however I would like to think that she will ensure that we (FoH) pay back the ?2.5m but put it aside and hand back to Hearts FC at some future date and as you say lend/arrange for funding for the new stand.

[JohnB]

you could be right however I would like to think that she will ensure that we (FoH) pay back the ?2.5m but put it aside and hand it back to Hearts FC at some future date and as you say lend/arrange for funding for the new stand.

 

Ray, soon you'll be telling us that you still believe in the tooth-fairy. If Ann was an auld eccentric with no family I'd be tempted to go along with you. However, she's a hard nosed business-woman and that's why she's got the money she has. I think that, after we've repaid the loan, the best we can hope for is her ongoing free input into the running of the club.