FOH named preferred bidder

[naeclue]

I'm not too concerned about the nuts and bolts to be honest. I trust these guys to act in our interest, and that is about that.

 

It's good to get some kind of update, and it does show that there is a facility for capital for a bid (which I seem to remember reading posts again and again and again pointing out the bid was doomed to failure as they had no capital, presumably that aspect is a source of some joy/approval?).

 

Steady as she goes, but it looks like we are moving in the right direction, albeit at a slow pace.

[The Gasman]

Not had my cup of tea yet gasman, can you expand on that. Obviously not the specifics as - clearly - none of us know them, but what it could mean.

 

Absolutely no inside info here, purely a personal opinion 2NaFish.

 

If it was "interest free" I assume that he would just have used that phrase.

 

If it is repay the capital, plus inflation, it would be "not for profit". the phrase he did use.

 

Don't get me wrong, it still incredibly generous terms, particularly for a high risk investment like a football club.

[The Gasman]

I'd guess that you could have interest of the rate of inflation or less without it being profit-making.

 

That was what I assumed he meant, and it is still an incredibly generous terms.

[topcat]

I'm confident it won't happen either, don't get me wrong. My curiosity arises from how involved bidco members want to be in the Foundation itself. As topcat says, it is an interest free loan with no apparent commitments, which is phenomenally generous.

 

It's generous certainly but in the context of millionaires getting involved in their local football teams it's not actually phenomenally generous.

 

You can replace the word "generous" with "irrational" in that sentence and it'll still hold true.

 

Compared to the money that Eddie Thomson, David Murray, Tom Farmer, Vladimir Romanov and countless more have thrown away the bidco strategy looks remarkably sensible.

 

Back of the envelope calculations suggest that with Interest rates relatively low the whole thing is going to cost the rich individuals behind BIDCO in the order of ?200,000 in lost interest between them (Compared to buying UK Gilts bonds) or an average of about ?4,600/month. The cost will be higher for the first year and then drip away to nothing as the debt is repayed.

 

For somebody in a position to tie up four or five million for a few years that's going to be money they'd rather have but can afford to forgoe in the same way as our direct debits to FoH. They are presumably signed up for this for roughly the same reasons that we signed our direct debits.

[Francis Albert]

 

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

[Don Dan]

The Guid Guys aren't buying the club there facilitating a fans take over

 

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

[kingantti1874]

 

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

 

Wondered how you were going to twist a group of Hearts fans, who are in effect providing an interest free loan to buy the club into a negative...

 

This was always the model, it's been known for months hence why we have never been asked to donate, these "supporters /funders" don't want to "own" the club long term so in that sense the no white knight statement is absolutely accurate..

[naeclue]

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

 

I think you mean guid Hearts men and women.

 

Bear in mind we haven't paid anything into this as yet, and there is every probability of a more detailed document being produced before we part with any cash.

 

I suspect no one in their right minds wants to own a football club - it's about 12 months before fans will be on their backs about this, that and the other. At least if the club is in fan ownership, we can only moan to ourselves. A little different lending the cash to throwing it into the black hole that is owning a football club.

[loveofthegame]

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

 

And you have a problem with this why?!

[flecktimus]

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

 

[The Gasman]

oh GM,, come on now,, youre better than that,,,gie it up mate

 

Gie what up..?

 

I don't think that either side making such unequivocal statements in public, as they've both now done, is either helpful, or professional.

 

I want this to work, and that means I want both sides to be as professional as possible, and do the haggling and negotiation in the boardroom - where it belongs.

 

Not an unreasonable position, I'd have thought.

[Jingle Bells]

Getting close to there being more Pledgers than Vermin Season Ticket holders.

[Zachearts]

Everything that i hear from the foh has been positive, why are the same people still trying to look for negatives ??

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

I don't think carrying out these processes in public is professional, or helpful, and can often just end up with positions becoming more polarised, and opinions becoming more crystalised. Just because one side does it, does not mean the other has to follow suit (two wrongs do not make a right, as the old saying goes) and as it is the very future of Hearts that are being gambled for here, I'd far rather both parties act as professionally as possible, leave the negotiations to the board room where they belong, and stop publicly making unhelpful and unequivocal statements such as that.

Gasman, sworn enemies who wouldn't talk to each other still managed to create the Good Friday Agreement.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Everything that i hear from the foh has been positive, why are the same people still trying to look for negatives ??

Oh FFS! If you mean me, WTF is negative about asking who is bearing liability?

[Don Dan]

Anyway all these if and buts aside its another step forward that's whats pleasing the most of all today

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

What do you mean by leeway?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

It's generous certainly but in the context of millionaires getting involved in their local football teams it's not actually phenomenally generous.

 

You can replace the word "generous" with "irrational" in that sentence and it'll still hold true.

 

Compared to the money that Eddie Thomson, David Murray, Tom Farmer, Vladimir Romanov and countless more have thrown away the bidco strategy looks remarkably sensible.

 

Back of the envelope calculations suggest that with Interest rates relatively low the whole thing is going to cost the rich individuals behind BIDCO in the order of ?200,000 in lost interest between them (Compared to buying UK Gilts bonds) or an average of about ?4,600/month. The cost will be higher for the first year and then drip away to nothing as the debt is repayed.

 

For somebody in a position to tie up four or five million for a few years that's going to be money they'd rather have but can afford to forgoe in the same way as our direct debits to FoH. They are presumably signed up for this for roughly the same reasons that we signed our direct debits.

Point taken but the others mentioned ran the clubs involved, hence my curiosity around bidco's day to day involvement.

[Socrates]

BBC report is now up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23752396?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

The quote that they have from Ian Murray doesn't suggest that the current FoH offer is a final offer. All they have is

 

""We will only bid what we can afford and what we think is realistic."

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

 

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

 

You are so bitter about all if this, it is unbelievable. Give it a rest eh.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

If we get the club free of debt for the price of three years direct debits, I'd be delighted. Did anyone think that was possible over a year ago?

[The Merse]

So after being told for nine months there were no white knights, the club is to be bought by a still anonymous group of ... white knights. Amazing what leeway being "guid Hearts men" gives you.

 

Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Gene Parmesan]

 

 

You are so bitter about all if this, it is unbelievable. Give it a rest eh.

 

FA has long since become a boring, repetitive parody of himself. A harrowing presence on these threads.

[topcat]

Point taken but the others mentioned ran the clubs involved, hence my curiosity around bidco's day to day involvement.

 

We'll have to wait for the details on that but I was pointing out that as they're not chucking large chunks of personal fortune into a black hole they're clearly not wanting to get in as deep as those mentioned.

 

It's conceivable that Ian Murray, Supporters Direct, myself and thousands of others are being duped by a scheme where we pay the cost of buying the club over years but in a few years time come to realise that the backers actually retain effective ownership and control in perpetuity but that seems a bit far fetched.

 

It'll be worth looking at the small print obviously but as Supporters Direct haven't called foul I don't expect there to be anything particularly nasty in there.

[topcat]

FA has long since become a boring, repetitive parody of himself. A harrowing presence on these threads.

 

To be fair a sceptical questioning voice acting as devil's advocate has been a useful, if irritating and repetitive, presence, as we collectively attempt to figure out what is going on and what is likely to happen.

 

 

 

But we've already got Geoff for that

so yeah you're right.

[2NaFish]

I'd guess that you could have interest of the rate of inflation or less without it being profit-making.

 

Cheers.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

 

To be fair a sceptical questioning voice acting as devil's advocate has been a useful, if irritating and repetitive, presence, as we collectively attempt to figure out what is going on and what is likely to happen.

 

 

 

But we've already got Geoff for that

so yeah you're right.

 

[scott_jambo]

If we have to pay off the club to Bidco. Will Bidco accept one off donations?

 

I was thinking JKB's donation fund over the next 36 months could just be solely to pay it off and cover any reduction in pledges. Regular fundraisers from supporters clubs also would more than sort this out.

[Boaby Ewing]

 

 

 

To be fair a sceptical questioning voice acting as devil's advocate has been a useful, if irritating and repetitive, presence, as we collectively attempt to figure out what is going on and what is likely to happen.

 

 

 

But we've already got Geoff for that so yeah you're right.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

To be fair a sceptical questioning voice acting as devil's advocate has been a useful, if irritating and repetitive, presence, as we collectively attempt to figure out what is going on and what is likely to happen.

 

 

 

But we've already got Geoff for that

so yeah you're right.

 

[blairdin]

Having been somewhat sceptical of FoH until now, I actually find all of this quite encouraging.

 

But my question from earlier in the thread remains (unless Ian Murray has mentioned it, can't listen to his interview in work). When BIDCO has been repaid and FANCO own the club, will FoH continue to encourage us to pledge, and if so for what purpose? When the transition has been completed (and I have no doubt that it will be), the club should be self sustaining.

[Ally Bell]

Having been somewhat sceptical of FoH until now, I actually find all of this quite encouraging.

 

But my question from earlier in the thread remains (unless Ian Murray has mentioned it, can't listen to his interview in work). When BIDCO has been repaid and FANCO own the club, will FoH continue to encourage us to pledge, and if so for what purpose? When the transition has been completed (and I have no doubt that it will be), the club should be self sustaining.

 

The pledges were always initially going to be used to repay whoever stumped up the money for the CVA.

 

As you mentioned the club is self sufficient, so the money raised from additional pledges could would be put towards anything - improvements to stadium, extra transfer/wage money etc.

 

I think it also makes you a shareholder of the club so could attend share meetings and if you wanted, could be elected to the board.

[The Merse]

Having been somewhat sceptical of FoH until now, I actually find all of this quite encouraging.

 

But my question from earlier in the thread remains (unless Ian Murray has mentioned it, can't listen to his interview in work). When BIDCO has been repaid and FANCO own the club, will FoH continue to encourage us to pledge, and if so for what purpose? When the transition has been completed (and I have no doubt that it will be), the club should be self sustaining.

 

I wouldn't be 100% certain, I'd imagine that pledging will still be encouraged as an additional income stream allow the club to put a better team on the park.

[Paolo]

I wouldn't be 100% certain, I'd imagine that pledging will still be encouraged as an additional income stream allow the club to put a better team on the park.

 

I do not think the pledges are to be used for financing new signings, and since the income is not guaranteed, it probably shouldn't be.

 

Perhaps use it for development purposes for players already at the club, particularly youths.

 

If we are going to learn from other clubs about fan owned/run clubs, then we can learn from others about development, cluns like BAyern Munich or Dortmund for instance.

[Boris]

I wouldn't be 100% certain, I'd imagine that pledging will still be encouraged as an additional income stream allow the club to put a better team on the park.

I do not think the pledges are to be used for financing new signings, and since the income is not guaranteed, it probably shouldn't be.

 

Perhaps use it for development purposes for players already at the club, particularly youths.

 

If we are going to learn from other clubs about fan owned/run clubs, then we can learn from others about development, cluns like BAyern Munich or Dortmund for instance.

 

Next venture, a new main stand?

[Jambof3tornado]

Would pledges made after the capital repayment is made to bidco not be used by the board as they see fit? Thats what the board are there for.

 

Cant see why it couldnt go towards player purchase, salaries, youth development etc.

 

As for pledges dropping the club will still be on a more sustainable level of finance, pledges will always be extra.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

New pledges will be needed to replace any lapsed pledges, surely?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

New pledges will be needed to replace any lapsed pledges, surely?

 

Who knows but let's concentrate on one thing at a time!

[loveofthegame]

Would pledges made after the capital repayment is made to bidco not be used by the board as they see fit? Thats what the board are there for.

 

Cant see why it couldnt go towards player purchase, salaries, youth development etc.

 

As for pledges dropping the club will still be on a more sustainable level of finance, pledges will always be extra.

 

Agreed. I will always be happy to continue to pledge unless for some unforeseen circumstance I am unable to afford it.

 

Those that don't want too/can't afford too should always be able to stop their pledges of course, but I see no harm in using pledges as an additional income stream in the future for, as Jambof3tornado has said, whatever the board sees fit.

[flecktimus]

Agreed. I will always be happy to continue to pledge unless for some unforeseen circumstance I am unable to afford it.

 

Those that don't want too/can't afford too should always be able to stop their pledges of course, but I see no harm in using pledges as an additional income stream in the future for, as Jambof3tornado has said, whatever the board sees fit.

 

As members of the FOH we should also be able to dictate policy for the board to carry out.

[SE16 3LN]

Would pledges made after the capital repayment is made to bidco not be used by the board as they see fit? Thats what the board are there for.

 

Cant see why it couldnt go towards player purchase, salaries, youth development etc.

 

As for pledges dropping the club will still be on a more sustainable level of finance, pledges will always be extra.

You will keep paying the pledge to maintain your ownership of the club as a supporter. What it is spent on will be decided by the "board" if that's what they are to be called. As the ordinary pledger will always jointly own more than 50% of the club we will be able to ratify or change those "board" decisions. That is why it's called fan ownership, that is why it will be a success for Hearts in my opinion, and why the numbers pledging will be sustainable.

[I.T.K]

I do not think the pledges are to be used for financing new signings, and since the income is not guaranteed, it probably shouldn't be.

 

Perhaps use it for development purposes for players already at the club, particularly youths.

 

If we are going to learn from other clubs about fan owned/run clubs, then we can learn from others about development, cluns like BAyern Munich or Dortmund for instance.

 

I thought the pledge money, after debt is paid off, could be used to fund the vlad statue!

[flecktimus]

Next venture, a new main stand?

 

The FOH stated at the Borders fans meeting that the stand had already been costed and lines of communication with Edinburgh council had been opened

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

The FOH stated at the Borders fans meeting that the stand had already been costed and lines of communication with Edinburgh council had been opened

 

I'll have some of that! New stand, staying at Tynie would be outstanding.

[Coco]

Greatly cheered by this news.

 

If it all works out then we need to have a statue or perhaps a frieze for the Unknown Backer of Bidco.

[Don Dan]

And if designed properly could incorporate some year round money making revenues for the club other than the usual match day events.

 

 

I'll have some of that! New stand, staying at Tynie would be outstanding.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Greatly cheered by this news.

 

If it all works out then we need to have a statue or perhaps a frieze for the Unknown Backer of Bidco.

 

An impressionist oil painting would be super.

[Boris]

You will keep paying the pledge to maintain your ownership of the club as a supporter. What it is spent on will be decided by the "board" if that's what they are to be called. As the ordinary pledger will always jointly own more than 50% of the club we will be able to ratify or change those "board" decisions. That is why it's called fan ownership, that is why it will be a success for Hearts in my opinion, and why the numbers pledging will be sustainable.

 

As I understand it, and I may be wrong (of course!), but the FoH membership wouldn't be ratifying every Board decision.

 

Our ratification would essentially be when we elect the Board members i.e. their election by the membership gives them the authority to make the decision. If we don't like what they are doing, we elect someone else at the next elections.

 

But, as I say, I may be wrong.

[luckydug]

Oh FFS! If you mean me, WTF is negative about asking who is bearing liability?

 

 

 

Dont think he means you GF .

There is one particular poster who seems to be going out of his way to find negatives from positives.

He is one depressing so and so now where is that ignore function.

[kingantti1874]

My understanding from attending some of the meetings is that post purchase pledges will not be relied on throwaway costs I. E. Paying wages /sign players, pledges will be used to try and investment in the future of the club to grow the business, youth player development, infrastructure etc.. Any growth in playing costs has to be achieved sustainably and cannot be funded by pledges