Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[frankblack]

54 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

What is the SNP position on oil , post independence ? 

A

 

Deary me.  Go back to sleep if you think that is a credible answer.

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Which one?

 

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, Cranston said:

 

Love it 

[Cranston]

12 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Love it 

👍

[Konrad von Carstein]

4 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

I'll try and pump Mrs von Carstein more often then.

 

[Gizmo]

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

That money is gone.  No point greeting about it.

 

Under the SNP it might not have covered the delays in Ferry builds.

Poor effort, for ferries, see HS2 or Test & Trace. 

We might have had enough of a nest egg to have invested seriously in our crumbling infrastructure. This advanced rich country - wtf is the money going? 

[Greedy Jambo]

It amazes me how many people are still against independence while still living in poverty, that's what it is, poverty. 

#brainwashed

[periodictabledancer]

2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Deary me.  Go back to sleep if you think that is a credible answer.

A simple question , Frank. You like questions : you're always asking others to answer yours.

 

You seem very good at gobbing off about the SNPs policy on oil but despite two requests , you refuse to say what it is. No doubt because it bears no relation to the bollocks you post about it  , just like the  bollocks you posted earlier that I corrected you on. 

Deary me, indeed. 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

It amazes me how many people are still against independence while still living in poverty, that's what it is, poverty. 

#brainwashed

Who’s living in poverty ? 

[Greedy Jambo]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Who’s living in poverty ? 

The majority of Scotland. 

[Greedy Jambo]

We also have the highest number of deaths in Europe apparently, and i'm not talking about old age. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

The majority of Scotland. 

Really ? Where are the stats for that ? I’d be interested to see them . I’m not disputed it . I’d just like to see evidence of it . 

[Greedy Jambo]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Really ? Where are the stats for that ? I’d be interested to see them . I’m not disputed it . I’d just like to see evidence of it . 

 

I heard it on BBC Radio Scotland. 

I don't have a link to stats, but i believe it, considering a good few of my mates from high school are dead. 

Edited April 6 by Greedy Jambo

[periodictabledancer]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Really ? Where are the stats for that ? I’d be interested to see them . I’m not disputed it . I’d just like to see evidence of it . 

Google it then. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

I heard it on BBC Radio Scotland. 

I don't have a link to stats, but i believe it, considering a good few of my mates from high school are dead. 

Joseph Rowntree Foundation . We have a population of over 5 half million . A million is however an awful stat . 

Edited April 6 by JudyJudyJudy

[Greedy Jambo]

That's the problem with politicians though, they go by stats. 

Most of them have never experienced real life, and could quite easily retire with a tonne of money in their bank accounts. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

That's the problem with politicians though, they go by stats. 

Most of them have never experienced real life, and could quite easily retire with a tonne of money in their bank accounts. 

Very true . I only brought that stat up as you said the majority of Scot’s were in poverty and that’s not the case . 

[Greedy Jambo]

15 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Very true . I only brought that stat up as you said the majority of Scot’s were in poverty and that’s not the case . 

Bro, they say the average salary here is 35k a year, I know like 1 person that earns that much. 

[henrysmithsgloves]

8 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

I'll try and pump Mrs von Carstein more often then.

Don't! She makes a sandwich to eat after you've done the deed🧐 see what's happened to von Carstein😔

[Roxy Hearts]

10 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Far too stupid, Roxy. Take the average IQ of kickback posters as a representative example.

That's the exact opposite of my reasoning!

[Roxy Hearts]

9 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

That argument doesn’t carry any weight though. There was no option on the 2014 ballot paper to stop time and live in 2014 forever. The option was either stay in UK or become independent.
 

As previous post, I agree we are poorer than in 2014. However, the only way to make a credible argument that “No” was the wrong choice in 2014, would be to make an argument that an independent Scotland would be wealthier by now than the current situation we are in. I note that a lot of “Yes” voters, shy away from making that argument.  

Eh?

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

 

I heard it on BBC Radio Scotland. 

I don't have a link to stats, but i believe it, considering a good few of my mates from high school are dead. 

 

You're not wrong.  I don't know about absolute numbers of deaths, but you are right when it comes to life expectancy.

 

Of the countries in the UK, Scotland has the lowest life expectancy, then Wales, then NI and then England.  A male baby born in Scotland has an average life expectancy of 76.5 years, compared with 77.9 in Wales, 78.4 in NI and 78.8 in England.  Women live longer on average, but the gaps across the four countries are similar to the figures for males.  Scottish female life expectancy at birth is 80.7.

 

National life tables – life expectancy in the UK - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

 

Scotland isn't too far off the EU average, which is 77.9 for men, but that average includes countries in Eastern Europe which have much lower life expectancy than in the west of the EU.  Scotland is a good bit behind the EU average for women, which is 83.3.

 

EU life expectancy at birth 80.6 years in 2022 - Eurostat (europa.eu)

 

 

If you'd rather compare Scotland with a couple of nearer neighbours in Western Europe, the figures for a selected couple of "nearby" countries are:

 

Belgium - males 80.4, females 84.5

France - males 80.5, females 86.1

Ireland - males 81.2, females 84.5

Netherlands - males 81.1, females 84.0

Norway - males 81.9, females 85.2

 

Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2024) - Worldometer (worldometers.info)

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

We also have the highest number of deaths in Europe apparently, and i'm not talking about old age. 

 

Poverty is a huge factor in early deaths.  I don't have stats for Scotland, but in England men living in the 10% most deprived areas died on average 9 years and 8 months earlier than men living in the 10% most well off areas.  The gap for women is about 8 years.

 

Not only that, but poverty has an ever bigger effect on what they call Healthy Life Expectancy - in other words, the number of years where you'll live in good general health.  On average, men living in the 10% most well-off areas have 70.5 years of Healthy Life Expectancy.  In the 10% poorest areas its 52.3 - that's 18 years and 2 months less time living in good health.

 

Health state life expectancies by national deprivation deciles, England - Office for National Statistics (ons.gov.uk)

 

And the gap between the best and worst off has been growing in recent years.

[TallPaul]

12 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

No one can. We didn't leave. 

 

It's just the same as you being unable to provide me with an economic case for remaining innthe UK or exiting the EU. 

 

All we can prove categorically is what happened after both those events.

 

So in your little mind remaining in the UK was a mistake but you don't know why? 

 

Common theme with you, it's all about independence but you have no idea why.

[The Mighty Thor]

19 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

So in your little mind remaining in the UK was a mistake but you don't know why? 

No you see this is the bit we can prove. The numbers are there. You've lived it since 2014. 

Economy down.

Living standards down.

Taxes up.

Recession.

Austerity.

 

In the same way I can't prove that leaving the UK would have been any better, you can't prove it would have been worse. Which bit of dealing in things that haven't happened don't you get?

 

The common theme with you is that your arguments dissolve on contact with reality. All of them. 

[TallPaul]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No you see this is the bit we can prove. The numbers are there. You've lived it since 2014. 

Economy down.

Living standards down.

Taxes up.

Recession.

Austerity.

 

In the same way I can't prove that leaving the UK would have been any better, you can't prove it would have been worse. Which bit of dealing in things that haven't happened don't you get?

 

The common theme with you is that your arguments dissolve on contact with reality. All of them. 

Look I have zero economic reasons to vote for Indy and I don't hate the English or the Tories. You lot are the ones advocating change but you can't provide any reason to even in your own minds. I find it all rather amusing. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, TallPaul said:

Look I have zero economic reasons to vote for Indy and I don't hate the English or the Tories. You lot are the ones advocating change but you can't provide any reason to even in your own minds. I find it all rather amusing. 

I've not been given any reason to remain in the UK. In fact the continuing economic disaster since 2014 and the removal of my rights to freely live and work in Europe put a tin hat on it. 

The assumption that wanting a better Scotland equates to hating the English undermines your argument entirely. It's more a comment on you than me. 

Hating the Tories is an entirely different matter. Anyone who has seen the utter devastation wrought on the UK by them and still thinks 'Yep they're the party for me' needs professional intervention. 

 

Tell us why we should stay? Sell us the UK and all its advantages. Show me what the WM government does for us.

 

You could write it on a grain of rice with a 6" paint roller

[Konrad von Carstein]

6 hours ago, henrysmithsgloves said:

Don't! She makes a sandwich to eat after you've done the deed🧐 see what's happened to von Carstein😔

 

 

[TallPaul]

34 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I've not been given any reason to remain in the UK. In fact the continuing economic disaster since 2014 and the removal of my rights to freely live and work in Europe put a tin hat on it. 

The assumption that wanting a better Scotland equates to hating the English undermines your argument entirely. It's more a comment on you than me. 

Hating the Tories is an entirely different matter. Anyone who has seen the utter devastation wrought on the UK by them and still thinks 'Yep they're the party for me' needs professional intervention. 

 

Tell us why we should stay? Sell us the UK and all its advantages. Show me what the WM government does for us.

 

You could write it on a grain of rice with a 6" paint roller

Why should I stay? Perhaps the fact I work primarily remotely (with travel to England) for a London based consultancy providing services to the UK banking sector. Think I would be cutting off my nose don't you think? I am one example of thousands of Scots that work this way.

 

Now tell us why we should leave?

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, TallPaul said:

Why should I stay? Perhaps the fact I work primarily remotely (with travel to England) for a London based consultancy providing services to the UK banking sector. Think I would be cutting off my nose don't you think? I am one example of thousands of Scots that work this way.

 

Now tell us why we should leave?

 

 

If you're job is remote then why would it impact you? 

 

Do you think that the day after independence there's 100 foot walls and no Internet in the Scottish Republic?

 

I work for an English company. Mu services will still be required post independence.

 

What a ridiculous argument

 

Edit

 

See if you're looking for threats to your job, I'd be far more concerned about any trade deal the Tories will do with India because that'll open your remote job up to some guy as qualified as you in Mumbai or Kolkata on about a third of your salary. 

 

That's not an SNP problem my friend and that kind of stuff is coming right down the 'take back control' track

Edited April 7 by The Mighty Thor

[John Findlay]

12 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

 

 

See if you're looking for threats to your job, I'd be far more concerned about any trade deal the Tories will do with India because that'll open your remote job up to some guy as qualified as you in Mumbai or Kolkata on about a third of your salary. 

 

That's not an SNP problem my friend and that kind of stuff is coming right down the 'take back control' track

No government is stopping the above.

Whether Scotland is an independent country or not.

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

No government is stopping the above.

Whether Scotland is an independent country or not.

Quite, but opening up the UK labour market by means of uncontrolled immigration on the back of a trade deal is not helping the poor lads situation. 

The SNP can't control immigration. It's a reserved matter.

 

So his argument about losing his job due to the SNP is redundant?

 

Excellent. 

Edited April 7 by The Mighty Thor

[JudyJudyJudy]

18 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Scottish Republic?

 

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

You got a victim card for this one too?

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

You got a victim card for this one too?

Please stop being hateful by using terms like “ victim” card . It demeans and mocks a persons lived in experience of prejudice and discrimination . 

[The Mighty Thor]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Please stop being hateful by using terms like “ victim” card . It demeans and mocks a persons lived in experience of prejudice and discrimination . 

There it is!

 

You ready to be a big boy and apologise for your unfounded and offensive allegations yet? 

 

Until you are please keep your false victim hood to yourself. Many thanks. 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

There it is!

 

You ready to be a big boy and apologise for your unfounded and offensive allegations yet? 

 

Until you are please keep your false victim hood to yourself. Many thanks. 

 

 

Stop using terms like “ victim “ card . 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Stop using terms like “ victim “ card . 

I'd have thought a person that has experienced the 'mocking' and 'lived experience' would realise the power of throwing allegations of phobias around and would think twice about doing that kind of thing.

 

Nope.

 

Not only do you fire your 'hate' around the place you refuse to apologise and furthermore claim victimisation when given the opportunity to 'man up' and apologise. 

 

Not the actions of a tolerant person. 

 

 

[TallPaul]

37 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

If you're job is remote then why would it impact you? 

 

Do you think that the day after independence there's 100 foot walls and no Internet in the Scottish Republic?

 

I work for an English company. Mu services will still be required post independence.

 

What a ridiculous argument

 

Edit

 

See if you're looking for threats to your job, I'd be far more concerned about any trade deal the Tories will do with India because that'll open your remote job up to some guy as qualified as you in Mumbai or Kolkata on about a third of your salary. 

 

That's not an SNP problem my friend and that kind of stuff is coming right down the 'take back control' track

Of course it would pose a potential threat if you think otherwise then there's no helping you. Perhaps the the fact I'm part of the UK Team? I would then be payrolled in a foreign currency behind a border. 

 

Anyway I like how things are and there's zero chance of change anytime soon so happy days. 

[TallPaul]

11 hours ago, Greedy Jambo said:

It amazes me how many people are still against independence while still living in poverty, that's what it is, poverty. 

#brainwashed

I'm not living in poverty are you?

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, TallPaul said:

Of course it would pose a potential threat if you think otherwise then there's no helping you. Perhaps the the fact I'm part of the UK Team? I would then be payrolled in a foreign currency behind a border. 

 

Anyway I like how things are and there's zero chance of change anytime soon so happy days. 

What's the potential threat? Would the service you provide cease to exist on ID+1?  

I'm part of the UK team. My customers don't vanish on ID +1

 

By the sounds of it your career choice seems quite vulnerable to moving market forces. 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, TallPaul said:

Of course it would pose a potential threat if you think otherwise then there's no helping you. Perhaps the the fact I'm part of the UK Team? I would then be payrolled in a foreign currency behind a border. 

 

Anyway I like how things are and there's zero chance of change anytime soon so happy days. 

It’s all an invalid argument as Indy isn’t happening . Angry agitators will need to find a new campaign to screech about . I suggest the new Labour Govt when it appears . The majority of Scot’s are happy with the status quo and do wish to go future down into a cesspool of economic hell . Make not mistake about it it would be austerity on steroids . I’ve got loads nieces and nephews who have built up successful jobs / careers , own their own houses etc and also have children , they deserve to thrive and not be economically and socially disadvantaged by a Indy Scotland . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, TallPaul said:

Of course it would pose a potential threat if you think otherwise then there's no helping you. Perhaps the the fact I'm part of the UK Team? I would then be payrolled in a foreign currency behind a border. 

 

Anyway I like how things are and there's zero chance of change anytime soon so happy days. 

Tell you what if there had been a chance of me changing my mind about it to a yes it’s zero now , but if I’m to judge what a Indy Scotland would look like if certain politicians and their supporters looked like it gives me the fear . A culturally skint barren Orwellian landscape . 

[TallPaul]

6 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

What's the potential threat? Would the service you provide cease to exist on ID+1?  

I'm part of the UK team. My customers don't vanish on ID +1

 

By the sounds of it your career choice seems quite vulnerable to moving market forces. 

 

 

When's ID+1?

[BlueRiver]

Just now, TallPaul said:

When's ID+1?

 

Independence Day + 1. So day after indy. 

 

Anyway, Thor is clearly on his "I'm alright, Jack" vibe this morning. His job will be fine so why worry about your own? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

 

Independence Day + 1. So day after indy. 

 

Anyway, Thor is clearly on his "I'm alright, Jack" vibe this morning. His job will be fine so why worry about your own? 

Oh ffs another silly term by the SNP lol god they certainly have captured a few 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Independence Day + 1. So day after indy. 

 

Anyway, Thor is clearly on his "I'm alright, Jack" vibe this morning. His job will be fine so why worry about your own? 

Yep that’s what it’s about . He is willing to throw those in poverty into further poverty just to full fill a ludicrous dream about an Indy Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Independence Day + 1. So day after indy. 

 

Anyway, Thor is clearly on his "I'm alright, Jack" vibe this morning. His job will be fine so why worry about your own? 

Far from it. 

 

I'm debunking an absolutely bogus argument. 

 

If TPs job is under threat it most certainly isn't from the SNP. 

[BlueRiver]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

Far from it. 

 

I'm debunking an absolutely bogus argument. 

 

If TPs job is under threat it most certainly isn't from the SNP. 

 

How is it a bogus argument? People in Scotland can be employed by the public sector primarily serving people in other parts of the UK at sites based in Scotland. 

 

There's also potential security concerns that may come in to play depending on what type of sector he works in and working in what would newly be a foreign country. 

 

If Scotland were to go independent do you think all of those workers from HMRC or DWP for example will be allowed to continue working at a Scottish site indefinitely serving the public of England, Wales and Northern Ireland? Bearing in mind Scotland wouldn't need as large a civil service to service her own needs? 

 

Quite honestly you've debunked nothing and have taken your own personal experience based on the sector you work in and applied it across the board to say there's nowt to worry about.