Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[baddab]

Labour gave Scotland devolution as a route to ensuring control over Scotland leading to control over Westminster. Don't forget that Labour set up the voting system for Holyrood to ensure no party ever had overall control they just expected Labour to be the biggest party in perpetuity.

 

As to funding when Scotland gets back what it contributes to the union then we will be stronger together but as long as we have to subsidise London annd the regions of England Wales and NI then Scotland will never be stronger as part on the UK. Westminster sees us as a resource ie something to be harvested and exploited.

[number-16]

the big questions SHOULD be asked and answered NOW

 

I agree.

 

What currency will the rUK/UK be using in 10 years time?

Will there be a referendum on EU membership?

What potential powers could be devolved if a No vote is returned?

What will the rate of income tax and national insurance be in the UK/rUK in ten years?

Will the House of Lords be reformed any time soon?

How much of the NHS in England will remain in public hands in 2022?

 

I demand answers to these questions now!

[jambos are go!]

I think you'll find it was the Scottish Electorate that gave Scotland devolution. Oh, for sure, it was a Labour Govt that allowed the vote to take place, but given the election results it could be seen that New Labour owed that much at least.

 

The Scottish Constitutional Convention was far more integral to devolution than Labour. IMO.

 

Back to the topic, I noticed on Newsnight Scotland that there was a Labour for Independence presence at the rally.

 

Interesting.

It was the UK electorate that gave us devolution using your logic. The convention and devolution were non events till John Smith rescued it from the political wilderness. There are also Labour supporters in the SNP.

[jambos are go!]

All those new faces in Scottish Labour though. Who are they again? Can't quite remember any names?

Try harder its not difficult.

[Boris]

It was the UK electorate that gave us devolution using your logic. The convention and devolution were non events till John Smith rescued it from the political wilderness. There are also Labour supporters in the SNP.

 

Jeez, talk about the cult of personality! The people voted for it, ergo they delivered it.

 

By your logic, had the vote gone "no, no" then John Smith would have delivered that too?

 

I'm sure there are Labour supporters in the SNP. No doubt some liberals and tories too.

[Das Root]

Try harder its not difficult.

 

 

 

Hmmmm. Iain Gray? Guid Hibs laddie that guy

[JamboX2]

It was the UK electorate that gave us devolution using your logic. The convention and devolution were non events till John Smith rescued it from the political wilderness. There are also Labour supporters in the SNP.

 

This. Kinnock's leadership dropped devolution after Foot stood down. Viewed it as a contentious issue which was a slippery slope. Have to say they may have been right. But Kinnock was largely, if not skeptical, non-commital on it. The big change was Smith who'd been a huge supporter in the 1970s, he called on Labour to get it done and deliver it to Scotland and Wales. In fact the only way we would have got devolution was Labour, had the Tories got in it wouldn't have happened and had the SNP won the majority of Scottish seats at Westminster we'd have had a choice of independence or nothing. Largely fotgotten today that many in the SNP, including Alex Neil and Jim Sillars, believed that devolution would actually kill independence stone dead and as a result the then leadership refused to be part of the Constitutional Convention.

[JamboX2]

I'm sick of Westminster. The revolving door of mediocrity.

Cameron on his way out, Miliband on his way in.

 

Nothing is going to change. All they care about is fiddling their expenses.

For all our resident Labour sycophants who are going to give me a wall of text, swearing how Ed is going to be different from the others.

Don't bother.

 

Yes they aren't the best. But have you seen the mediocrity of the Scottish Parliament? It's unbelievable how bad some of them are, on all parties. In fact Holyrood sits from 9-5, that's it, Tuesday-Thursday. If it wants to be taken more seriously then it needs to sit Monday-Thursday, like Westminster and the Welsh and Northern Irish assemblies. On top of that they should have longer debates than the current 1 hour max, 5 minute speeches. As a national legislature its very mediocre in general.

 

Westminster maybe distant and feel remote but it's a professional legislature. I'm sick of both tbh, Holyrood and Westminster. We have two governments, both are arrogant and naieve to the real issues of the day, be it the need for true reform of banking in London or the failure to realise that cuts have to be made as our tax base (in Scotland and the wider UK) cannot support the level of spending we had before.

[davemclaren]

Labour gave Scotland devolution not the SNP. John Smith declared it "unfinished business" when the SNP was in the political wilderness. Labour delivered it for the better governance of Scotland not independence.

 

 

I though Labour gave us devolution in the hope of killing off the SNP?

[davemclaren]

All the other parties are offering fresh faces and the SNP the same old faces led by the Gang of Four. Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney with MacKaskill trying to keep his head down at the back as usual.Yesterdays politics from yesterdays politicians. Roll on the referendum.

 

 

All the other parties are giving us fresh faces because the previous ones lost.

[jambos are go!]

I though Labour gave us devolution in the hope of killing off the SNP?

You are entitled to think what you like. I think that the Independence movement in Scotland will never die but will never win because it is wrong. Devolution IMO is a way to provide better governance within the Union. You are entitled to disagree

[davemclaren]

You are entitled to think what you like. I think that the Independence movement in Scotland will never die but will never win because it is wrong. Devolution IMO is a way to provide better governance within the Union. You are entitled to disagree

 

 

Personally, I see it as a gradual incremental movement of power to Holyrood which ,may well take many decades to ultimately get there.

[jambos are go!]

All the other parties are giving us fresh faces because the previous ones lost.

Yes indeed. They have changed and the polls suggest that support for Independence is falling back to the tradionally low level. The SNp must face up to the fact that there electoral success was down to discontent with Labour rather than support for independence. They need a fresh approach if they are to reflect the new game in town is a better Union. Their leadership IMO looks stale not up for the fight. Like some in the Independence movement like Gordon Wilson And Margo Macdonald the reality of power seems to have blunted their nationalist fervour. IMO.

[Das Root]

Yes indeed. They have changed and the polls suggest that support for Independence is falling back to the tradionally low level. The SNp must face up to the fact that there electoral success was down to discontent with Labour rather than support for independence. They need a fresh approach if they are to reflect the new game in town is a better Union. Their leadership IMO looks stale not up for the fight. Like some in the Independence movement like Gordon Wilson And Margo Macdonald the reality of power seems to have blunted their nationalist fervour. IMO.

 

 

Proper OF talk right there. You only won cos we were shite. Sorry, that should be...you only pummeled us right up the farter as we are woefully inept, corrupt, and destroyed the country over the past decade or so.

 

A better Union? The UK is a spent force. It still has merit as a grouping of individual countries, there are always benefits with flexing some combined muscle, but each country should be run from their own capital, not dictated to from an out of touch Westminster whose focus is firmly on London and the south. Labour should see that, or they risk being left behind when the Tories cut Scotland loose and gain control of England for the next generation.

[TheMaganator]

Proper OF talk right there. You only won cos we were shite. Sorry, that should be...you only pummeled us right up the farter as we are woefully inept, corrupt, and destroyed the country over the past decade or so.

 

A better Union? The UK is a spent force. It still has merit as a grouping of individual countries, there are always benefits with flexing some combined muscle, but each country should be run from their own capital, not dictated to from an out of touch Westminster whose focus is firmly on London and the south. Labour should see that, or they risk being left behind when the Tories cut Scotland loose and gain control of England for the next generation.

This sounds a bit Devo-something, rather than full Insependence.

Federalist? I can certainly see the merits if fereralism.

Like them or loath them the 1/3 of the pop who support Indy won't disappear when the NO camp win the ref. We need to explore alternatives otherwise this constitutional problem will rear it's ugly head again in 10-15 yrs

[southside1874]

If a westminister politician told me it was sunny outside, I would have to check for myself. Therefore I will take the lesser of two evils and vote for independence with devo max as my second choice.

The SNP have got this bang on with calling the referendum in 2014 as even the oldest pro unionist (with sense) I know are slowly coming round to the idea of independence. Why, because they realise the UK is in a big mess. A much bigger mess than any of these politicians will ever let on. Even the Scottish Labour party are throwing their hat into the ring.

 

Only a fool or someone with ulterior motives can't see that the UK is fkcued and won't embrace this opportunity to change things.

[jambos are go!]

Proper OF talk right there. You only won cos we were shite. Sorry, that should be...you only pummeled us right up the farter as we are woefully inept, corrupt, and destroyed the country over the past decade or so.

 

A better Union? The UK is a spent force. It still has merit as a grouping of individual countries, there are always benefits with flexing some combined muscle, but each country should be run from their own capital, not dictated to from an out of touch Westminster whose focus is firmly on London and the south. hould see that, or they risk being left behind when the Tories cut Scotland loose and gain control of England for the next generation.

So you are arguing for a better Union. BTW under a yes vote we would divorce Wales and Northern Ireland as well.

[rossthejambo]

See Johann Lamont's stuck some policies out, unfreezing Council tax, possible return of Uni fees just a couple.

 

Nothing like alienating student voters and the folk struggling to get by, I'd imagine this sort of thing will fall right into the hands of the Indy punters.

[jambos are go!]

If a westminister politician told me it was sunny outside, I would have to check for myself. Therefore I will take the lesser of two evils and vote for independence with devo max as my second choice.

The SNP have got this bang on with calling the referendum in 2014 as even the oldest pro unionist (with sense) I know are slowly coming round to the idea of independence. Why, because they realise the UK is in a big mess. A much bigger mess than any of these politicians will ever let on. Even the Scottish Labour party are throwing their hat into the ring.

 

Only a fool or someone with ulterior motives can't see that the UK is fkcued and won't embrace this opportunity to change things.

t

 

If it was raining outside after the snow debacle the SNP would make a press release to cover their backs rather than their heads. Your unionists pals seem to be lieing to you or the pollsters. So you have also written of the Welsh and Irish as kith and kin. Or just deeply anti English.

[Alba gu Brath]

t

 

If it was raining outside after the snow debacle the SNP would make a press release to cover their backs rather than their heads. Your unionists pals seem to be lieing to you or the pollsters. So you have also written of the Welsh and Irish as kith and kin. Or just deeply anti English.

 

What is this kith and kin stuff btw?

 

I'm related to my mother but don't want to be dependent on her all my life. Though I'm aware that some men still live with their maw after the age of 21. Older in some sad cases.

 

Indpendence is a natural goal for anyone with any ambition and self-respect. Applies to nations to.

[Boris]

So you have also written of the Welsh and Irish as kith and kin. Or just deeply anti English.

 

You sound like a one nation Tory.

[dobmisterdobster]

This sounds a bit Devo-something, rather than full Insependence.

Federalist? I can certainly see the merits if fereralism.

Like them or loath them the 1/3 of the pop who support Indy won't disappear when the NO camp win the ref. We need to explore alternatives otherwise this constitutional problem will rear it's ugly head again in 10-15 yrs

For Federalism to happen you would need the people of England (or their MPs) to agree to it.

Non starter. It will be about as successful as Lords reform.

Scotland can't change the UK, it can only leave or stay.

[jambos are go!]

You sound like a one nation Tory.

 

Tory never.

[jambos are go!]

See Johann Lamont's stuck some policies out, unfreezing Council tax, possible return of Uni fees just a couple.

 

Nothing like alienating student voters and the folk struggling to get by, I'd imagine this sort of thing will fall right into the hands of the Indy punters.

Courageous of her to put forward such ideas. Free tuition fees and frozen council tax gives huge advantages to the better off in our society and cost a lot of money. IMO they are a designed by the SNP to drive a popular wedge between Holyrood and Westminster. I think the Scottish people are grown up enough to decide if I am right and the money can be better spent on other health and public services. Let the people decide if they prefer support for the sick and the elderly or or the well off and young students who will be given deferred fee repaayments only when they can well afford it.

 

Stting out her stall compares favourably with SNP stalling on what independence will entail.

[southside1874]

t

 

If it was raining outside after the snow debacle the SNP would make a press release to cover their backs rather than their heads. Your unionists pals seem to be lieing to you or the pollsters. So you have also written of the Welsh and Irish as kith and kin. Or just deeply anti English.

Nobody is telling me fibs mate, I just notice how their opinions have changed. Just because I want my country to make its own choices doesn't mean I hate the rest of the UK members but that's what a lot of unionist do...........add 2+2 and come up with 1 when speaking about Scottish independence or add 2+2 and come up with 6 when speaking about the union. Just my opinion mind but I've never heard a unionist speak without telling lies or exaggerating some facts.

 

what did Hague say again.......he would't promote our whisky

[3fingersreid]

If a westminister politician told me it was sunny outside, I would have to check for myself. Therefore I will take the lesser of two evils and vote for independence with devo max as my second choice.

The SNP have got this bang on with calling the referendum in 2014 as even the oldest pro unionist (with sense) I know are slowly coming round to the idea of independence. Why, because they realise the UK is in a big mess. A much bigger mess than any of these politicians will ever let on. Even the Scottish Labour party are throwing their hat into the ring.

 

Only a fool or someone with ulterior motives can't see that the UK is fkcued and won't embrace this opportunity to change things.

if a msp told me it was sunny I`d be checking that myself a politician be he/she in any parliament has to be carefully watched imho

 

as to getting the year of the vote correct what a coincidence its the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn and its the year of the glesgae commonwealth games where the national pride will be filled with two things the pride of scotlands athletes winning -hopefully bucket loads of medals- and a hatred of all things english when as they will win medals and god save the queen will be heard playing as the st george flag is being raised

 

actually and I`m being serious will we after independence take part in the commonwealth games or will we be totally separate from the commonwealth as well?

[Das Root]

So you are arguing for a better Union. BTW under a yes vote we would divorce Wales and Northern Ireland as well.

 

 

The union would be dissolved fully. It's not an argument for a better union, that is dead and buried.

[Boris]

 

actually and I`m being serious will we after independence take part in the commonwealth games or will we be totally separate from the commonwealth as well?

 

Given that the monarchy would remain in an independent Scotland, at least initially, then I would imagine we would remain part of the Commonwealth.

[3fingersreid]

Given that the monarchy would remain in an independent Scotland, at least initially, then I would imagine we would remain part of the Commonwealth.

[southside1874]

if a msp told me it was sunny I`d be checking that myself a politician be he/she in any parliament has to be carefully watched imho

 

as to getting the year of the vote correct what a coincidence its the 700th anniversary of Bannockburn and its the year of the glesgae commonwealth games where the national pride will be filled with two things the pride of scotlands athletes winning -hopefully bucket loads of medals- and a hatred of all things english when as they will win medals and god save the queen will be heard playing as the st george flag is being raised

 

actually and I`m being serious will we after independence take part in the commonwealth games or will we be totally separate from the commonwealth as well?

 

Ask Austrailia, New Zealand or Canada. I would imagined it will be debated and possibly voted on. There will be a lot to sort out after independence if we vote that way. To debate them beforehand is just a complete waste of time IMO. Independence is about giving Scotland and its people freedom of choice. As we all know, how people feel about certain things change from year to year. Why make choices now about things we have no control over until after the referendum?

 

I would imagine we would have the queen as head of state so therefore be part of her commonwealth but that is not for me to decide

 

Incidentally, do all these Scottish Unionists who belt on about anti English honestly beleive that there is no anti Scottish thing going on south of the border?

[jambos are go!]

The union would be dissolved fully. It's not an argument for a better union, that is dead and buried.

Have you consulted the English, Welsh and Irish?

[jambos are go!]

Ask Austrailia, New Zealand or Canada. I would imagined it will be debated and possibly voted on. There will be a lot to sort out after independence if we vote that way. To debate them beforehand is just a complete waste of time IMO. Independence is about giving Scotland and its people freedom of choice. As we all know, how people feel about certain things change from year to year. Why make choices now about things we have no control over until after the referendum?

 

 

 

 

I would imagine we would have the queen as head of state so therefore be part of her commonwealth but that is not for me to decide

 

 

 

A

Incidentally, do all these Scottish Unionists who belt on about anti English honestly beleive that there is no anti Scottish thing going on south of the border?

The Barnett formula would suggest not as much. The last opinion poll I read about suggested there is a clear majority for Scottish Independence in England though. The SNP must be jealous.

Are you seriously suggesting folk vote 'blind'.

Edited September 26, 2012 by jambos are go!

[Das Root]

Have you consulted the English, Welsh and Irish?

 

 

Yes, I did a survey. They all said the same.

[3fingersreid]

Ask Austrailia, New Zealand or Canada. I would imagined it will be debated and possibly voted on. There will be a lot to sort out after independence if we vote that way. To debate them beforehand is just a complete waste of time IMO. Independence is about giving Scotland and its people freedom of choice. As we all know, how people feel about certain things change from year to year. Why make choices now about things we have no control over until after the referendum?

 

I would imagine we would have the queen as head of state so therefore be part of her commonwealth but that is not for me to decide

 

Incidentally, do all these Scottish Unionists who belt on about anti English honestly beleive that there is no anti Scottish thing going on south of the border?

That's where we'll always disagree its better to get these things sorted before a vote because after might be too late

 

Can't believe the snp would want the queen to be head of state when she represents everything they don't want ..........the union

[Das Root]

That's where we'll always disagree its better to get these things sorted before a vote because after might be too late

 

Can't believe the snp would want the queen to be head of state when she represents everything they don't want ..........the union

 

 

The queen is head of state of Australia. Are they still run from the UK?

[jambos are go!]

Yes, I did a survey. They all said the same.

This is the most credible contribution you have made so far!

[2NaFish]

Can't believe the snp would want the queen to be head of state when she represents everything they don't want ..........the union

 

Nope.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_the_Crowns

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707

 

Even if that wasnt the case, it doesnt matter what they want (beyond independence itself). Should scotland become independent then scotland can make decisions on these things and we can find out what the snp wants and vote for it should the mood take us.

Edited September 26, 2012 by 2NaFish

[Das Root]

This is the most credible contribution you have made so far!

 

 

Excellent, I feel my life is now complete.

[southside1874]

That's where we'll always disagree its better to get these things sorted before a vote because after might be too late

 

Can't believe the snp would want the queen to be head of state when she represents everything they don't want ..........the union

 

It's like I said. It's not my choice and it would probably go to a vote after a referendum. As folk appear to change their minds about these things, then there is really no point in debating it just now especially since the outcome of the referendum is unknown until 2014. The SNP may well intend to keep the monarchy but then the next elected government may have in their manifesto to drop the monarchy.

 

It is better to live in a country that the majority of folks voices are heard and are truly represented, than it not to be.

[southside1874]

Excellent, I feel my life is now complete.

[3fingersreid]

Nope.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_the_Crowns

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707

 

Even if that wasnt the case, it doesnt matter what they want (beyond independence itself). Should scotland become independent then scotland can make decisions on these things and we can find out what the snp wants and vote for it should the mood take us.

I think you will find that most people if questioned will say the queen is the head of the united kingdoms of Great Britain and N.Ireland which is what the snp dont want to be part of so why ask her to be

[rossthejambo]

I think you will find that most people if questioned will say the queen is the head of the united kingdoms of Great Britain and N.Ireland which is what the snp dont want to be part of so why ask her to be

 

And the Commonwealth

[Logic1874]

See Johann Lamont's stuck some policies out, unfreezing Council tax, possible return of Uni fees just a couple.

 

Nothing like alienating student voters and the folk struggling to get by, I'd imagine this sort of thing will fall right into the hands of the Indy punters.

 

Britain is in such a frigging mess that Labour do not want to be in power either,

 

Ed Milliband, when was last time we heard him saying any sense or having a go at Cameron,

 

His own brother David doesn't even want to be in his cabinet, ffs

 

In 2010 tories won 1 seat out of 59 that they contested in Scotland, 16.7% of our votes, says enough - get them to FxxK,

 

Why is Johann Lamont not trying to have a go at Tories for mess Britain are in, rather than have a go at Independance for Scotland,

 

Because she knows Labour could or would not do any better,

 

Vote for me and i'll stop free care for the elderly,free prescriptions for the sick,free uni education then i'll put up you council tax,

 

Yet she is Scottish Labour Leader, our forefathers are spinning in their graves,

[southside1874]

I think you will find that most people if questioned will say the queen is the head of the united kingdoms of Great Britain and N.Ireland which is what the snp dont want to be part of so why ask her to be

 

The Queen is the head of the commonwealth too. All these countries at some point made part of the empire. I think she is still head of state in Australia, Canada and New Zealand.

I think you are getting mixed up a wee bit.

[3fingersreid]

Iam more than aware of the commonwealth situation my question is solely aimed at this independence of GB I'm asking why do the snp want to continue with the past when they are looking to have a new start its almost like they're a wee bit scared to leave all the past behind them or do they feel they can pick and choose the good bits of the union and keep them

 

Again I don't get convinced of the benefits of independence more I get told of the big bad union its going to take a lot of positive talk to convince people like myself to switch sides and before anyone calls me a quisling I'm as patriotic as the next person but I need convinced

[Socrates]

Are we seriously getting worried about whether we'd be part of the Commonwealth or not, when nobody's ever suggested that we wouldn't be?

[2NaFish]

I think you will find that most people if questioned will say the queen is the head of the united kingdoms of Great Britain and N.Ireland which is what the snp dont want to be part of so why ask her to be

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

 

Because lots of people think it, doesnt make it true.

[Socrates]

Iam more than aware of the commonwealth situation my question is solely aimed at this independence of GB I'm asking why do the snp want to continue with the past when they are looking to have a new start its almost like they're a wee bit scared to leave all the past behind them or do they feel they can pick and choose the good bits of the union and keep them

 

Again I don't get convinced of the benefits of independence more I get told of the big bad union its going to take a lot of positive talk to convince people like myself to switch sides and before anyone calls me a quisling I'm as patriotic as the next person but I need convinced

Why are unionists suggesting that there's something wrong in Scotland co-operating with England, Wales or Northern Ireland on issues where that makes sense to do so? Don't you like the English or something?

 

Seriously, it's not about doing everything yourself for the sake of it. The central thing with independence is that you have the right to work with others, and to stop doing so if it isn't in Scotland's interests to do so any more.

[doctor jambo]

INdependence is fine and I find the stance of Lamont refreshing.

It is about time that there was a sense of realism re budgetary balancing.

Part of the great unmentioned is that the state is too big and there are too many freebies to sustain.

The libdems cancelling free bus passes for pensioners with assets greater than ?1 million? Honestly ?1million?

Make it ?400k or even less.

Even if that ?400k is your house- surely you should not expect the tax payer to pay your heating bill and bus fares when you are basically sitting in a huge bank vault.

The squeezed middle are screwed. Everyone I know is broke, pay cuts, pay freezes, hikes in petrol, VAT, food bills etc have lurched many of my friends into debt. One has lost his house now. More are long term unemployed, even more are only working part time.

Yet we live amongst pensioners who holiday 3 or 4 times a year, run around in new cars and are generally minted- yet are haveing these "benefits" paid for by tax payers who are not only going down the toilet financially, yet when we get to retirement age will enjoy none of these benefits ourselves.

Stop the "but they are pensioners, they fought in the war you know" crap

NOthing should be universal- THERE IS NO MONEY TO PAY FOR IT THIS WEEK, nevermind in 4 years.

Taxpayers cannot last that long

[Boris]

INdependence is fine and I find the stance of Lamont refreshing.

It is about time that there was a sense of realism re budgetary balancing.

Part of the great unmentioned is that the state is too big and there are too many freebies to sustain.

The libdems cancelling free bus passes for pensioners with assets greater than ?1 million? Honestly ?1million?

Make it ?400k or even less.

Even if that ?400k is your house- surely you should not expect the tax payer to pay your heating bill and bus fares when you are basically sitting in a huge bank vault.

The squeezed middle are screwed. Everyone I know is broke, pay cuts, pay freezes, hikes in petrol, VAT, food bills etc have lurched many of my friends into debt. One has lost his house now. More are long term unemployed, even more are only working part time.

Yet we live amongst pensioners who holiday 3 or 4 times a year, run around in new cars and are generally minted- yet are haveing these "benefits" paid for by tax payers who are not only going down the toilet financially, yet when we get to retirement age will enjoy none of these benefits ourselves.

Stop the "but they are pensioners, they fought in the war you know" crap

NOthing should be universal- THERE IS NO MONEY TO PAY FOR IT THIS WEEK, nevermind in 4 years.

Taxpayers cannot last that long

 

You would think that some party could perhaps think that the people want public services therefore they have to pay for them.

 

Therefore, increasing income tax, especially the upper rates, would create more finance to fund these public services. As a society, I think anyway, that we all have a responsibility to each other and to our future generations.

 

What we are seeing at the moment from Westminster, and to an extent from Hpolyrood, is the undermining of society as a whole as the easy targets for "deficit reduction" are public services that in the main help and support those less fortunate in our society.

 

That's certainly not the kind of society I want to grow old in, nor do I wish my son, and any potential children he may have, to have to grow up in it either.

 

I am still to decide how I shall vote in this referendum, but I would wish a society that was socially inclusive and socially responsible. At present, I am minded to think that an independent Scotland has more chance of delivering this than a Westminster parliament whose sole concern is the economic stability of Londonshire and its hinterland.

 

The Scotland Act and it's half arsed equivalents for Wales & NI, and lack of devolved government for the regions of England have helped us get to where we are now. I was/am a firm believer that a federalised UK would have made the Union stronger, but also the regions and their economies stronger too.