Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Nucky Thompson]

3 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

He didn't say he expected MSM to do anything of the sort. Good try though.

And quite what newspaper readership has to do with anything ...🤷‍♂️

 

Although if you did want to build a case founded  on readership numbers (or lack of) , MSM sales are collapsing and it's good to see the likes of the Daily ****** should soon be out of business. 

Good offer on print subscriptions 

 

Subscriptions | Subscribe to The Daily Mail & MailOnline - The Mail (mailsubscriptions.co.uk)

 

 

[Gizmo]

4 hours ago, TallPaul said:

Gizmo the wee fantasist. When's Indy happening? You backing Hamas Yousaf to lead you all the way?

100% touched a nerve. Nice. 

[frankblack]

6 hours ago, Gizmo said:

Yet there's independent Ireland with higher salaries than Scotland...🤔

 

Wait.  You think Ireland, who went independent after WW1 - a hundred plus years ago - is comparable to Scotland?

 

Scotland would neither be in the UK nor EU with a huge starting debt.  The worst of both worlds.

 

6 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

 

Wouldn't that already be happening? Wouldn't UK based firms already be off-shoreing jobs or are you suggesting that doesn't happen just now because it's the UK? 

 

It already is happening.  I work in such a firm in Finance which is headquartered in London.  Whole sections of the business was moved to India.

 

Why would firms like this need to keep the jobs in Scotland when they are operating under UK law for UK customers and focused on the City of London? 

 

An independent Scotland would be competing with India to retain its current jobs.  Tens of thousand will no doubt go overseas or to the rest of the UK.

 

Essential staff will be offered relocation packages.

 

Please explain what would be attractive about an independent Scotland to move jobs here when its cheaper overseas?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Because it didn’t chime with XB52’s outlook. 

Yep. So much for a sensible debate on this issue . 

[TallPaul]

12 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

100% touched a nerve. Nice. 

When's it happening Gizmo?

[The Mighty Thor]

22 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Wait.  You think Ireland, who went independent after WW1 - a hundred plus years ago - is comparable to Scotland?

 

Scotland would neither be in the UK nor EU with a huge starting debt.  The worst of both worlds.

 

 

It already is happening.  I work in such a firm in Finance which is headquartered in London.  Whole sections of the business was moved to India.

 

Why would firms like this need to keep the jobs in Scotland when they are operating under UK law for UK customers and focused on the City of London? 

 

An independent Scotland would be competing with India to retain its current jobs.  Tens of thousand will no doubt go overseas or to the rest of the UK.

 

Essential staff will be offered relocation packages.

 

Please explain what would be attractive about an independent Scotland to move jobs here when its cheaper overseas?

It's already happening. 

 

Whole sections have moved to India already whilst Scotland is still in the UK?

 

So Scotland, in the UK, is competing with India and jobs have already gone? 

 

I'm struggling to see what's attractive in London based finance jobs when they're all being off shored to India under the UKs watch. 

[periodictabledancer]

41 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Wait.  You think Ireland, who went independent after WW1 - a hundred plus years ago - is comparable to Scotland?

 

Scotland would neither be in the UK nor EU with a huge starting debt.  The worst of both worlds.

 

 

It already is happening.  I work in such a firm in Finance which is headquartered in London.  Whole sections of the business was moved to India.

 

Why would firms like this need to keep the jobs in Scotland when they are operating under UK law for UK customers and focused on the City of London? 

 

An independent Scotland would be competing with India to retain its current jobs.  Tens of thousand will no doubt go overseas or to the rest of the UK.

 

Essential staff will be offered relocation packages.

 

Please explain what would be attractive about an independent Scotland to move jobs here when its cheaper overseas?

You make this sound like some recent innovation : it's been happening for decades.

You last sentence is complete nonsense - who's saying jobs would move to Scotland IN ANY EVENT  if it's cheaper to off shore?  It has absolutely nothing to do with independence. 

PS I see you're asking (irrelevant) questions again after refusing to answer any put to you  yesterday, 

 

Edited April 8 by periodictabledancer

[periodictabledancer]

53 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

100% touched a nerve. Nice. 

[frankblack]

11 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

You make this sound like some recent innovation : it's been happening for decades.

You last sentence is complete nonsense - who's saying jobs would move to Scotland IN ANY EVENT  if it's cheaper to off shore?  It has absolutely nothing to do with independence. 

PS I see you're asking (irrelevant) questions again after refusing to answer any put to you  yesterday, 

 

 

You are flapping.

 

The fact is that the majority of financial service jobs are centred around the City of London.

 

The jobs will move out of Scotland after independence.  You are in denial if you think otherwise.

[periodictabledancer]

3 hours ago, pablo said:

 

No, it really is. You should go seek out the surveys on where people rank the constitutional question alongside other topics, and what happens to support for Independence when the impact is monetised.

It really isn't, no matter how much you might convince yourself , no matter how many times you say it. 

You seem to miss the point : people are being asked what they want the most, in simple terms.

That doesn't mean they don't want independence - you just need to accept that and the fact it isn't going to stop. Support may indeed be on the wane currently (it has been at a much lower ebb in previous decades) but that's life. 

As for the "monetisation" - I'm not getting into this again except to say the guy unionists LOVE to quote (who was deliberatley misquoted by the Telegraph and about which he voiced his displeasure publicly ) actually changed his mind - he says  given the  damage being inflicted by brexit , he'd now favour independence. That too is life. 

"when the facts change , so does my opinion", I think he said. 

 

Edited April 8 by periodictabledancer

[periodictabledancer]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You are flapping.

 

The fact is that the majority of financial service jobs are centred around the City of London.

 

The jobs will move out of Scotland after independence.  You are in denial if you think otherwise.

I said off-shoring has been happening for decades. You've interpreted it in a way to suit you. Hardly "flapping". 

If jobs can be off-shored, they will be . Regardless. 

 

[frankblack]

Just now, periodictabledancer said:

It really isn't, no matter how much you might convince yourself , no matter how many times you say it. 

You seem to miss the point : people are being asked what they want the most, in simple terms.

That doesn't mean they don't want independence - you just need to accept that and the fact it isn't going to stop. Support may indeed be on the wane currently (it has been at a much lower ebb in previous decades) but that's life. 

As for the "monetisation" - I'm not getting into this again except to say the guy unionists LOVE to quote (who was deliberatley misquoted by the Telegraph and about which he voiced his displeasure publicly ) actually changed his mind - he says  given the  damage being inflicted by brexit , he'd now favour independence. That too is life. 

"when the facts change , so does my opinion", I think he said. 

 

 

Ever heard of paragraphs?

 

What financial modelling have the Nationalists produced for possible economic circumstances post independence?

 

You'll get your arses handed to you like Sturgeon and co got off Andrew Neil around previous elections unless they can provide credible policies to scrutinise.

[frankblack]

Just now, periodictabledancer said:

I said off-shoring has been happening for decades. You've interpreted it in a way to suit you. Hardly "flapping". 

If jobs can be off-shored, they will be . Regardless. 

 

 

Not just off-shored, transferred to the remaining parts of the UK.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

8 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

It really isn't, no matter how much you might convince yourself , no matter how many times you say it. 

You seem to miss the point : people are being asked what they want the most, in simple terms.

That doesn't mean they don't want independence - you just need to accept that and the fact it isn't going to stop. Support may indeed be on the wane currently (it has been at a much lower ebb in previous decades) but that's life. 

As for the "monetisation" - I'm not getting into this again except to say the guy unionists LOVE to quote (who was deliberatley misquoted by the Telegraph and about which he voiced his displeasure publicly ) actually changed his mind - he says  given the  damage being inflicted by brexit , he'd now favour independence. That too is life. 

"when the facts change , so does my opinion", I think he said. 

 

the independence movement will gather pace again but not for a good while, primarily because the only party in any sort of position to deliver it are a busted flush and in disarray 

[periodictabledancer]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Ever heard of paragraphs?

 

What financial modelling have the Nationalists produced for possible economic circumstances post independence?

 

You'll get your arses handed to you like Sturgeon and co got off Andrew Neil around previous elections unless they can provide credible policies to scrutinise.

You seem upset Frank ?

And ironically, I see you're asking questions AGAIN, after refusing to answer those I put to you last night : so don't expect me to bother doing something you refuse to do. 

 

What economic modelling would you want the SNP to do ?*

With EU membership (2014) ?

Post brexit , (2016)

Based on what prices for oil ?

 

SO that would be THREE vastly different economic models that would been generated between 2014 and 2022.

And you work in financial services ? 

 

* In any case , aren't  unionists against SNP spending money on anything to do with independence ? 

 

Edited April 8 by periodictabledancer

[periodictabledancer]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

the independence movement will gather pace again but not for a good while, primarily because the only party in any sort of position to deliver it are a busted flush and in disarray 

Very possibly. 

[The Mighty Thor]

26 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Not just off-shored, transferred to the remaining parts of the UK.

Sounds like financial services is not a long term career option. 

 

Your job could be transferred at the drop of a hat. 

[Cairneyhill Jambo]

46 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You are flapping.

 

The fact is that the majority of financial service jobs are centred around the City of London.

 

The jobs will move out of Scotland after independence.  You are in denial if you think otherwise.

The jobs have already gone. Remember at the referendum. The Tories took scaremongering to a new level and warned  that if Scotland voted yes, companies would leave Scotland and take the jobs with them.

 

Then the Brexit shitshow happened which started a mass exodus of companies to leave the UK and took the work with them. Airbus. Aviva, Barclays Bank, HSBC, Lloyds, British Steel, Ford, Honda, Toyota. Jaguar/Land Rover, Nissan, Panasonic, Sony, Phillips. Dyson etc etc. Literally thousands of jobs gone. And you can't blame independence for any of it. 

 

 

[Cranston]

29 minutes ago, Cairneyhill Jambo said:

The jobs have already gone. Remember at the referendum. The Tories took scaremongering to a new level and warned  that if Scotland voted yes, companies would leave Scotland and take the jobs with them.

 

Then the Brexit shitshow happened which started a mass exodus of companies to leave the UK and took the work with them. Airbus. Aviva, Barclays Bank, HSBC, Lloyds, British Steel, Ford, Honda, Toyota. Jaguar/Land Rover, Nissan, Panasonic, Sony, Phillips. Dyson etc etc. Literally thousands of jobs gone. And you can't blame independence for any of it. 

 

 

The thing is though, the snp and greens are bottom feeders. They are anti business, anti car, anti high street, anti oil, anti fixing roads, just about anti everything, bar new law hate crimes, and feathering their own nests. What incentive is there to vote for independence? The snp and greens are a shit fest of shite.

[manaliveits105]

2 hours ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

the independence movement will gather pace again but not for a good while, primarily because the only party in any sort of position to deliver it are a busted flush and in disarray 

The camper van engine will have siezed by noo 

[periodictabledancer]

59 minutes ago, Cranston said:

The thing is though, the snp and greens are bottom feeders. They are anti business, anti car, anti high street, anti oil, anti fixing roads, just about anti everything, bar new law hate crimes, and feathering their own nests. What incentive is there to vote for independence? The snp and greens are a shit fest of shite.

 

[Jim_Duncan]

2 hours ago, Cranston said:

The thing is though, the snp and greens are bottom feeders. They are anti business, anti car, anti high street, anti oil, anti fixing roads, just about anti everything, bar new law hate crimes, and feathering their own nests. What incentive is there to vote for independence? The snp and greens are a shit fest of shite.

They do seem awfy keen to ban things.

[manaliveits105]

3 hours ago, Cranston said:

The thing is though, the snp and greens are bottom feeders. They are anti business, anti car, anti high street, anti oil, anti fixing roads, just about anti everything, bar new law hate crimes, and feathering their own nests. What incentive is there to vote for independence? The snp and greens are a shit fest of shite.

[TheOak88]

On 07/04/2024 at 01:46, Roxy Hearts said:

Eh?

Which part are you struggling with, Roxy?

[Gundermann]

11 hours ago, Cranston said:

The thing is though, the snp and greens are bottom feeders. They are anti business, anti car, anti high street, anti oil, anti fixing roads, just about anti everything, bar new law hate crimes, and feathering their own nests. What incentive is there to vote for independence? The snp and greens are a shit fest of shite.

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Shit fest of shite

 

 

great phrase which I’ll be stealing 

 

the greens are proper creepy ***** who need hard drive checks all round 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

Which part are you struggling with, Roxy?

The part where the Westminster Government won't tell us what Scotland's wealth is. What are they scared of? 

[Australis]

Yousafs brother in law arrested and charged with abduction and extortion.

In a case where someone died.

 

No wonder Police Scotland can't cope.

Him driving without insurance, its a one family crime wave.

 

 

[manaliveits105]

Scottish taxpayers paying the bail ?

[Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, Australis said:

Yousafs brother in law arrested and charged with abduction and extortion.

In a case where someone died.

 

No wonder Police Scotland can't cope.

Him driving without insurance, its a one family crime wave.

 

 

Just read that. Lovely bunch.

[Lord Montpelier]

Excellent to read reports of the launch of a new ferry

 

Presumably this one doesn't have painted on windows

 

Well done SNP 

[Australis]

1 hour ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Excellent to read reports of the launch of a new ferry

 

Presumably this one doesn't have painted on windows

 

Well done SNP 

Tonight's news says it will still be 18 months before it can take passengers.

 

Total shambles.

 

[Jim_Duncan]

7 hours ago, Australis said:

Yousafs brother in law arrested and charged with abduction and extortion.

In a case where someone died.

 

No wonder Police Scotland can't cope.

Him driving without insurance, its a one family crime wave.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

What an embarrassing situation for him. WTF is it with Scottish SNP first ministers either being done , questioned or associated with alleged criminals . 

[Jim_Duncan]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

What an embarrassing situation for him. WTF is it with Scottish SNP first ministers either being done , questioned or associated with alleged criminals . 

TBF to Humza, he doesn’t appear to be involved in this at all. Just like how him giving £750k to Palestine doesn’t mean he was funding Hamas. 

Edited April 9 by Jim_Duncan

[Cranston]

28 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

TBF to Humza, he doesn’t appear to be involved in this at all. Just like how him giving £750k to Palestine doesn’t mean he was funding Hamas. 

You make it sound as if it was his own personal money that was given to Palestine?

[Jim_Duncan]

Just now, Cranston said:

You make it sound as if it was his own personal money that was given to Palestine?

He treated it like it was. Had we held a referendum on the matter, I doubt a majority of the Scottish public would have agreed to send the price of a Mirsad Beslija to Palestine and would have rather the money we’re used where it was generated to benefit people here. 

[Cranston]

Just now, Jim_Duncan said:

He treated it like it was. Had we held a referendum on the matter, I doubt a majority of the Scottish public would have agreed to send the price of a Mirsad Beslija to Palestine and would have rather the money we’re used where it was generated to benefit people here. 

👍

 

Well said. He should have been brought to task for sending Scots money to Palestine. A political decision not a pragmatic one. That money could have hired nurses, or went towards Cancer Research etc, not his own personal political dogma.

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

He treated it like it was. Had we held a referendum on the matter, I doubt a majority of the Scottish public would have agreed to send the price of a Mirsad Beslija to Palestine and would have rather the money we’re used where it was generated to benefit people here. 

👍

1 minute ago, Cranston said:

👍

 

Well said. He should have been brought to task for sending Scots money to Palestine. A political decision not a pragmatic one. That money could have hired nurses, or went towards Cancer Research etc, not his own personal political dogma.

👍

[periodictabledancer]

1 hour ago, Cranston said:

👍

 

Well said. He should have been brought to task for sending Scots money to Palestine. A political decision not a pragmatic one. That money could have hired nurses, or went towards Cancer Research etc, not his own personal political dogma.

Too right. Should've sent it to Israel. 

[periodictabledancer]

1 hour ago, Cranston said:

👍

 

Well said. He should have been brought to task for sending Scots money to Palestine. A political decision not a pragmatic one. That money could have hired nurses, or went towards Cancer Research etc, not his own personal political dogma.

Imagine , saving Palestinian kids from starvation.  What was he thinking. Shameful . 

[Jim_Duncan]

8 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Imagine , saving Palestinian kids from starvation.  What was he thinking. Shameful . 

We all know why he funnelled that cash to Gaza. 

[frankblack]

17 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

Imagine , saving Palestinian kids from starvation.  What was he thinking. Shameful . 

 

Overseas aid is a reserved matter for Westminster.

 

What the SNP are doing is diluting the budget for say social housing or the homeless in Scotland.

 

As I posted previously the SNP are being investigated for not publishing a report of this spending since 2019.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/24231107.snp-giving-away-money-scots-badly-need/

[Roxy Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

We all know why he funnelled that cash to Gaza. 

A wee bit casual racism on here now and again! 

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

Overseas aid is a reserved matter for Westminster.

 

What the SNP are doing is diluting the budget for say social housing or the homeless in Scotland.

 

As I posted previously the SNP are being investigated for not publishing a report of this spending since 2019.

 

https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/24231107.snp-giving-away-money-scots-badly-need/

What's Westminster diluting from my taxes to accommodate overseas aid? 

[Jim_Duncan]

Just now, Roxy Hearts said:

A wee bit casual racism on here now and again! 

Who brought race into this? Certainly wasn’t me. 

 

It’s not racist to suggest that a man with access to ‘foreign aid’ may use that cash to broker the escape of family members from a war zone.

 

 

 

 

[Jim_Duncan]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What's Westminster diluting from my taxes to accommodate overseas aid? 

Common sense, it would appear. 

[Roxy Hearts]

29 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Who brought race into this? Certainly wasn’t me. 

 

It’s not racist to suggest that a man with access to ‘foreign aid’ may use that cash to broker the escape of family members from a war zone.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for clarification!

 

29 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Common sense, it would appear. 

What is?

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What's Westminster diluting from my taxes to accommodate overseas aid? 

 

Oh dear.

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

6 hours ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Who brought race into this? Certainly wasn’t me. 

 

It’s not racist to suggest that a man with access to ‘foreign aid’ may use that cash to broker the escape of family members from a war zone.

 

 

 

 

The SG gave aid to a UN agency that provides humanitarian aid in an area of the world that most reasonable people recognises is suffering a humanitarian crisis.  Whether you think that should be a spending priority for SG (I do given the modest amounts involved in the grand scheme of things) is open for debate but that's a legitimate decision for the government to make. You are speculating about the motivations behind that decision.  Unfairly IMO. 

Similarly, I think connecting Humza with the alleged criminal activities of his ex brother in law is equally unfair. I'd be appalled if anybody connected me to the behaviour of my ex brother in law and I'm sure you have former acquaintances you feel the same about. 

Humza's judgement has proven to be poor on a number of occasions and I suspect he is a dead man walking politically speaking but your posts about him aren't exactly coming across as objective and as open to interpretation about your motivations as were his when he came out with his 'white, white, white' nonsense. 

So whether he was right or wrong, I can see where Roxy was coming from.