Scottish independence and devolution superthread

[Gundermann]

19 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Its autocratic government by a party that get a block vote.  See my link in the above post - this policy has no justification.  

 

Same goes with the green issues and hate crime bill.  The only thing stopping these clowns introducing a bill to devalue peoples homes who have gas boilers is a general election.  Blackmail politics.

 

God knows how much worse an independent Scotland would be with these jokers in charge.

 

What a pile o pish.

 

And that last sentence FFS. These jokers wouldn't be in charge. It would be a new political landscape. SNP will probably split and Labour won't be tied to a London party that's more interested in chasing Tory votes than social justice.

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

It is, but there seems to be an unexpectedly large number of them.

 

In Ireland it is estimated that if you combine intellectual disability,  physical disability, and difficulty with memory and retention together you might get to somewhere between 7 and 9 percent of the population, with the school age population in line with those figures.  Is Scotland all that different?

 

Ah, I've answered my own question. It would seem that there isn't a direct connection between the terms "ASN" and "disabled".

 

In 2020, at first glance, 32% of children in Scottish schools had additional support needs.  Some of that number are defined in specific categories based on the type of supports provided.  However the biggest number by far were in a category of additional needs called "Other", which is defined as

 

"additional support needs which have been identified and are being supported but which do 
not fall within the subcategories of need collected in the pupil census. These may be needs which are of short-term duration, or which do not need significant differentiation of 
learning and teaching to overcome barriers to learning."

 

In effect, this reads to me as needs that don't really involve any notable degree of support.

 

If you exclude those, the percentage of children in schools with additional support needs is about 11%, or some 77,000 children.  

 

Does anyone know what percentage of the education budget in Scotland is spent on children with additional support needs?  In Ireland it is now in excess of 25%.

[Gundermann]

23 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

It is, but there seems to be an unexpectedly large number of them.

 

In Ireland it is estimated that if you combine intellectual disability,  physical disability, and difficulty with memory and retention together you might get to somewhere between 7 and 9 percent of the population, with the school age population in line with those figures.  Is Scotland all that different?

 

In one place where I worked, more than 60% were on staged intervention - as it suggests support for a variety of needs from behavoural to emotional to autistic spectrum or disabilites. Middle-class areas will have a fraction of this. There will be parts of England that have the same numbers we do but without the support.

 

I don't know about Ireland but they may be behind us in recognising these issues. Certainly if you listen to the likes of Blindboy who was a teenager in the 90s, attitudes toward autistic pupils at least were horrific. Fortunately, it seems as if the RCC doesn't have the power it did in Ireland's schools.

Edited April 17 by Gundermann

[manaliveits105]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

so why has the need for addtional support for learning sky rocketed ?  You never answered my perfectly civil non screeching question ? 

Still hasn't just the usual smurf bullshit 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Still hasn't just the usual smurf bullshit 

👍

[Ulysses]

32 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

In one place where I worked, more than 60% were on staged intervention - as it suggests support for a variety of needs from behavoural to emotional to autistic spectrum or disabilites. Middle-class areas will have a fraction of this. There will be parts of England that have the same numbers we do but without the support.

 

I don't know about Ireland but they may be behind us in recognising these issues. Certainly if you listen to the likes of Blindboy who was a teenager in the 90s, attitudes toward autistic pupils at least were horrific. Fortunately, it seems as if the RCC doesn't have the power it did in Ireland's schools.

 

 

I refer you to this.

 

33 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Does anyone know what percentage of the education budget in Scotland is spent on children with additional support needs?  In Ireland it is now in excess of 25%.

 

[frankblack]

56 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

What a pile o pish.

 

And that last sentence FFS. These jokers wouldn't be in charge. It would be a new political landscape. SNP will probably split and Labour won't be tied to a London party that's more interested in chasing Tory votes than social justice.

 

It would be a locked down autocratic state modelled on Putin's Russia, designed to keep the SNP in power indefinitely .  You only have to look at the laws they have passed to see where they are heading.

[Cranston]

6 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It would be a locked down autocratic state modelled on Putin's Russia, designed to keep the SNP in power indefinitely .  You only have to look at the laws they have passed to see where they are heading.

Puts me off independence. The snp greens are diabolical, and the only remedy we are offered up from the snp greens supporters are that - The snp greens will probably split apart and some other walter mitty party dreamed up like a sequence from Brigadoon will emerge.

 

If the Snp had been a success, independence would be a shoo in. Instead we've had an insight into the brutal reality of a dictatorship that would follow.

 

Sad.

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

so why has the need for addtional support for learning sky rocketed ? 

 

Between 2013 and 2023, the number of children in Scottish schools with additional support needs increased by 127,415 (from 132K-ish to 259K-ish).

 

That category of "Other" that I mentioned earlier increased by 118,695.  You could be forgiven for guessing that this means that the "categorised" needs figure accounted for the rest of the increase (8.720), but because some kids fit into more than one ASN category that might not be true.  In 2023 the statistics included a separate figure for all ASN excluding the "Other" group.  It was 83,358, which is 11.8% of the school population.  The stats for 2013 don't include such a figure.  The first year the stats included that figure was in 2016, and in that year it was 61,482, which was 9% of the school population.  In short, it means that the number of children with ASN is increasing, but when you exclude that "Other" group as I described it earlier the numbers aren't increasing so fast.

 

It is also interesting to note that the numbers have also increased significantly in England since 2016.  They use different terminology and classifications, but their figures show consistent increases.

 

 

[Ulysses]

15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It would be a locked down autocratic state modelled on Putin's Russia...

 

Oh for crying out loud, Frank.   

 

 

2 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Puts me off independence.

 

Of course it does.   

[jack D and coke]

14 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Puts me off independence. The snp greens are diabolical, and the only remedy we are offered up from the snp greens supporters are that - The snp greens will probably split apart and some other walter mitty party dreamed up like a sequence from Brigadoon will emerge.

 

If the Snp had been a success, independence would be a shoo in. Instead we've had an insight into the brutal reality of a dictatorship that would follow.

 

Sad.

Drivel. 
Utter drivel. 
 

[Cranston]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Oh for crying out loud, Frank.   

 

 

 

Of course it does.   

It gets so tedious reading joyless, soulless posts from you and others on here. Its beyond a joke now. Instead of banning poor folk from alcohol, we should ban dour authoritarians. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

10 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Between 2013 and 2023, the number of children in Scottish schools with additional support needs increased by 127,415 (from 132K-ish to 259K-ish).

 

That category of "Other" that I mentioned earlier increased by 118,695.  You could be forgiven for guessing that this means that the "categorised" needs figure accounted for the rest of the increase (8.720), but because some kids fit into more than one ASN category that might not be true.  In 2023 the statistics included a separate figure for all ASN excluding the "Other" group.  It was 83,358, which is 11.8% of the school population.  The stats for 2013 don't include such a figure.  The first year the stats included that figure was in 2016, and in that year it was 61,482, which was 9% of the school population.  In short, it means that the number of children with ASN is increasing, but when you exclude that "Other" group as I described it earlier the numbers aren't increasing so fast.

 

It is also interesting to note that the numbers have also increased significantly in England since 2016.  They use different terminology and classifications, but their figures show consistent increases.

 

 

Thanks for that information . 

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Drivel. 
Utter drivel. 
 

Wonderful insightful post from you. Stop trolling posters who make good points with your insults.

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, Cranston said:

It gets so tedious reading joyless, soulless posts from you and others on here. Its beyond a joke now. Instead of banning poor folk from alcohol, we should ban dour authoritarians. 

 

I miss doddsy. 

[jack D and coke]

6 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Wonderful insightful post from you. Stop trolling posters who make good points with your insults.

Mate you posted a pile of absolute nonsense. 
I didnt insult you personally but that was drivel of the highest order. 
IMO  

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

38 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

It would be a locked down autocratic state modelled on Putin's Russia, designed to keep the SNP in power indefinitely .  You only have to look at the laws they have passed to see where they are heading.

You can beat your bottom dollar that that bunch in holy rood would want to be right at the heart of an Indy Scotland . It would be a dream come true for them . Free from the “ Shackles “ of English rule to do whatever they wanted without any fear of consequence or accountability . 

[Cranston]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Mate you posted a pile of absolute nonsense. 
I didnt insult you personally but that was drivel of the highest order. 
IMO  

 

Just drivel. Pure drivel. Drivel Drivel Drivel, If it doesn't suit your idealism, everything is just drivel.

 

Did I get that right? Just pure Drivel right. 

 

Snp Greens are diabolical authoritarians that hate the poor.

 

Bet you're already thinking of typing 'Drivel'.

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Just drivel. Pure drivel. Drivel Drivel Drivel, If it doesn't suit your idealism, everything is just drivel.

 

Did I get that right? Just pure Drivel right. 

 

Snp Greens are diabolical authoritarians that hate the poor.

 

Bet you're already thinking of typing 'Drivel'.

 

You said it boss. 

[Cranston]

6 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

 

You said it boss. 

If that's the best argument you put up for the Snp Greens coalition of failure, and pretence that the Snp Greens hatred against the poorest in society will disband in the event of independence, please think again, as its obviously not working. We need people who are serious regarding making ordinary lives in Scotland better and fairer, not the bams that are currently in charge at Holyrood.

[Ked]

14 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Just drivel. Pure drivel. Drivel Drivel Drivel, If it doesn't suit your idealism, everything is just drivel.

 

Did I get that right? Just pure Drivel right. 

 

Snp Greens are diabolical authoritarians that hate the poor.

 

Bet you're already thinking of typing 'Drivel'.

It's a bit hard to think anythingbelse saying as you posted it 20 odd times

[Cranston]

Just now, Ked said:

It's a bit hard to think anythingbelse saying as you posted it 20 odd times

Hard of thinking?

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Cranston said:

If that's the best argument you put up for the Snp Greens coalition of failure, and pretence that the Snp Greens hatred against the poorest in society will disband in the event of independence, please think again, as its obviously not working. We need people who are serious regarding making ordinary lives in Scotland better and fairer, not the bams that are currently in charge at Holyrood.

Jack is disaffected with the SNP and Greens.

 

Can you explain how you were pro independence but now are not?

You can be critical of a party but how does that translate.

I don't get the argument the snp are shite so that equates to independence being shite.

Well it might actually because it seems most governments are shite.

But we'd be less shite that's for sure.

😄😄

 

Yeeeeeessss.

Sorry bit football scarf politics there.

😄

[Ked]

3 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Hard of thinking?

No.

Not the greatest mind gawn about but I'm fond of it.

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Jack is disaffected with the SNP and Greens.

 

Can you explain how you were pro independence but now are not?

You can be critical of a party but how does that translate.

I don't get the argument the snp are shite so that equates to independence being shite.

Well it might actually because it seems most governments are shite.

But we'd be less shite that's for sure.

😄😄

 

Yeeeeeessss.

Sorry bit football scarf politics there.

😄

The Snp Greens coalition has turned me off independence. I genuinely thought devolution would make a difference, show a successful Scotland, instead we've been hijacked by hard left wokism, and authoritarianism. They literally hate car drivers, the poor, common sense etc. Its Communist elitism.

[Ked]

11 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

The bikes thing was an SNP greens policy . 
 

 

That's why greens got my vote to do stuff like this.

 

I thought you were passionate about the environment?

Polar bear killer now eh?

 

😂

 

Bet Judy doesn't recycle. 

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

That's why greens got my vote to do stuff like this.

 

I thought you were passionate about the environment?

Polar bear killer now eh?

 

😂

 

Bet Judy doesn't recycle. 

And you had the cheek to ask me why independence is a turn off. You have to be at the wind up, or on a cushy underworked overpaid public salary role?

[Ked]

1 minute ago, Cranston said:

The Snp Greens coalition has turned me off independence. I genuinely thought devolution would make a difference, show a successful Scotland, instead we've been hijacked by hard left wokism, and authoritarianism. They literally hate car drivers, the poor, common sense etc. Its Communist elitism.

You realise you seem as extreme as you perceive them to be.

And I'm fairly right wing.

 

[Cranston]

Just now, Ked said:

You realise you seem as extreme as you perceive them to be.

And I'm fairly right wing.

 

You're at it. If you're right wing, I'm Neil Kinnock. You're either Snp Greens or work in a cushy underworked overpaid public service.

[Ked]

8 minutes ago, Cranston said:

And you had the cheek to ask me why independence is a turn off. You have to be at the wind up, or on a cushy underworked overpaid public salary role?

Never worked for the government in my life.

I don't think the greens have been environmental enough.

I do commend the SNP for stopping Fracking.

There were actually people advocating Fracking for Scotland.

They like all parties in power for too long fall apart.

I don't believe you ever wanted independence. 

[Ked]

8 minutes ago, Cranston said:

You're at it. If you're right wing, I'm Neil Kinnock. You're either Snp Greens or work in a cushy underworked overpaid public service.

Well you're wrong.

I work and have worked hard.

Think higher taxation. Is wrong.

I think Scotland as a nation is entrepreneurial and that staying part of a union which cannot afford itself is folly and cowardly.

Scotland has far greater potential independent from the UK.

Stay where we are and it's decline.

 

Communist elites.

What a banger

[Cranston]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

Never worked for the government in my life.

I don't think the greens have been environmental enough.

I do commend the SNP for stopping Fracking.

There were actually people advocating Fracking for Scotland.

They like all parties in power for too long fall apart.

I don't believe you ever wanted independence. 

We're definitely at opposite ends of the political spectrum. You have much more in common with the Snp Greens than I ever will have, which is why I am now against Independence and Devolution. The hard left wokists have sabotaged Devolution, and potential Independence. Sad..

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Well you're wrong.

I work and have worked hard.

Think higher taxation. Is wrong.

I think Scotland as a nation is entrepreneurial and that staying part of a union which cannot afford itself is folly and cowardly.

Scotland has far greater potential independent from the UK.

Stay where we are and it's decline.

 

Communist elites.

What a banger

Definitely Communist Elitism. 

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Definitely Communist Elitism. 

Definitely a banger

[il Duce McTarkin]

41 minutes ago, Ked said:

 

Not the greatest mind gawn about but I'm fond of it.

 

 

So am I, Ked. 👍

 

11 minutes ago, Ked said:

 

Communist elites.

What a banger

 

 

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Definitely a banger

 

[Ked]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

You can beat your bottom dollar that that bunch in holy rood would want to be right at the heart of an Indy Scotland . It would be a dream come true for them . Free from the “ Shackles “ of English rule to do whatever they wanted without any fear of consequence or accountability . 

But that's wrong.

They'd be fully and solely accountable.

 

[Cranston]

Just now, Ked said:

Definitely a banger

Yeah, you've lost the argument, by insults. Doesn't make me feel good though. If the Snp hadn't been authoritarian, and entered into a hard left wokist coalition with they Greens, Independence would have been a shoo in. Useless diabolical gunts.

[Ked]

Just now, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

So am I, Ked. 👍

 

 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

So am I, Ked. 👍

 

 

 

 

😄

[Cranston]

2 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

So am I, Ked. 👍

 

 

 

 

😂

[Cranston]

3 minutes ago, Ked said:

But that's wrong.

They'd be fully and solely accountable.

 

Accountable to their supporters. The underworked overpaid public services, who would of course, expect the hard working, underpaid servants of the private sector to pay for these communist elitist 'bangers'.

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 minutes ago, Cranston said:

😂

 

👍

 

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

👍

 

👍

[Ked]

Just now, Cranston said:

Yeah, you've lost the argument, by insults. Doesn't make me feel good though. If the Snp hadn't been authoritarian, and entered into a hard left wokist coalition with they Greens, Independence would have been a shoo in. Useless diabolical gunts.

Well you've hardly helped the independence cause have you?

Some shite politicians and you give up a belief like running your own country because of that?

And have shifted to not only remaining part of the UK with their magnificent governance which ran concurrent with the elite communists of holyrood.

Oh and no governance whatsoever just ministered by the pros down south.

Believeable.

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Accountable to their supporters. The underworked overpaid public services, who would of course, expect the hard working, underpaid servants of the private sector to pay for these communist elitist 'bangers'.

Wow

[Ked]

7 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Accountable to their supporters. The underworked overpaid public services, who would of course, expect the hard working, underpaid servants of the private sector to pay for these communist elitist 'bangers'.

Can I ask what age you are buddy?

 

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

Well you've hardly helped the independence cause have you?

Some shite politicians and you give up a belief like running your own country because of that?

And have shifted to not only remaining part of the UK with their magnificent governance which ran concurrent with the elite communists of holyrood.

Oh and no governance whatsoever just ministered by the pros down south.

Believeable.

I expected the Independence Cause, and the Snp to deliver on common sense policies for the common good. Instead, they descended into a mire of self grandiose grandstanding, whining its all Westminster's fault, Wokism, and worst of all - entering into a coalition with the anti common sense Greens. 

 

They Greens. FFS. Waken up.

[Ked]

8 minutes ago, Cranston said:

Accountable to their supporters. The underworked overpaid public services, who would of course, expect the hard working, underpaid servants of the private sector to pay for these communist elitist 'bangers'.

On another thread I asked if anyone had heard or knew anyone that expressed themselves with terms that youd describe as woke.

I've never heard your kind of chat for 40 years.

You sound like a lot of old communists but instead of bosses you say underworked overpaid public services and the working class are now the underpaid servants of the private sector.

That's a bit mixed up and seems a bit.

Communisty?

 

❤️ the banger bit🤣🤣

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, Cranston said:

I expected the Independence Cause, and the Snp to deliver on common sense policies for the common good. Instead, they descended into a mire of self grandiose grandstanding, whining its all Westminster's fault, Wokism, and worst of all - entering into a coalition with the anti common sense Greens. 

 

They Greens. FFS. Waken up.

1200 quid a bikes nowt.

Just you keep doing the 12 hour shifts.

Servant.

[Cranston]

1 minute ago, Ked said:

On another thread I asked if anyone had heard or knew anyone that expressed themselves with terms that youd describe as woke.

I've never heard your kind of chat for 40 years.

You sound like a lot of old communists but instead of bosses you say underworked overpaid public services and the working class are now the underpaid servants of the private sector.

That's a bit mixed up and seems a bit.

Communisty?

 

❤️ the banger bit🤣🤣

Is that you Peter Mandelson? Trying to be all New Labour spin doctor. Feck off you Snp Green commie.

[Ked]

Just now, Cranston said:

Is that you Peter Mandelson? Trying to be all New Labour spin doctor. Feck off you Snp Green commie.

Well as much as I'm enjoying this and I really am I have work in the morning.

Snp green commie .

Might have a wee shot of that on this thread.

Speak later cranny