The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[The Gasman]

They can push through all the resolutions they want but until they deal with the small matter of the 20p per share offer they won't be able to act on any of them.

....and that's the elephant in the room that none of the Rangers fans can see, and none of the MSM will mention.

[Mac80]

.

[jambovambo]

Talking of Phil :

 

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/06/24/reality-cheque-for-the-people/

[The Gasman]

Talking of Phil :

 

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/06/24/reality-cheque-for-the-people/

Hmmmm....

 

Regardless of whether they make money or not from merchandise sales, the season ticket money's coming in just now, so I just can't see why there would be any need for a ?1.5m emergency loan this month.

[Rudolf]

Hmmmm....

 

Regardless of whether they make money or not from merchandise sales, the season ticket money's coming in just now, so I just can't see why there would be any need for a ?1.5m emergency loan this month.

King mentioned loans from directors made within the last few weeks in his last statement.

[Jamdub]

In the 'Lying King' they trust, feckin' love it.

Edited June 24, 2017 by Jamdub

[jambovambo]

The Clumpany :

 

https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2017/06/23/dave-kings-finest-hour-a-guest-blog/

[Independence]

Not sure how you can paint the recent events with the retail deal and Ashley selling his shares as a negative for Rangers. I find this forum embarrassing at times.

Really? The only embarrassment for Scotland is The Rangers as were the previous Rangers. If you had seen the events in the Pans today you would know what I mean? A truly awful club, supported by sectarian people with the majority 'glory hunters'. The bad news is that Benidorm will be full of this terrible strip (illfitting) - for the Spanish!

[By The Light..]

So maybe this thread is over now?

 

The blue nosed gits finished well above us this season and have since strengthened.

 

Hope we can match this and progress HHGH.

[RobNox]

King mentioned loans from directors made within the last few weeks in his last statement.

Although that might not be true, after all he has previous for lying!

[Independence]

So maybe this thread is over now?

 

The blue nosed gits finished well above us this season and have since strengthened.

 

Hope we can match this and progress HHGH.

This thread has miles in it because The Rangers are the glory hunters club that just keeps giving! More popcorn please!

[jambovambo]

He's certainly playing to the masses there. Can you imagine the cheers at his North American supporters rally when he said that ?

 

This is @TheClumpany's take on it :

 

"In other news, the Chancellor's found a massive new hole in UK public finances. The tax system was void the years RFC weren't participating"

[Rudolf]

Although that might not be true, after all he has previous for lying!

True. Lol!

[Riccarton3]

Sounds like King sees 9 in a row is a given and, because of its 'significance' to no-one other than those in the west of Scotland, 10 in a row must be met with never, never, never, however daft it sounds.

[jbee647]

 

The guys mad. [emoji23]

No Mad Vlad type response from the red tops I see

The truth is King is as mad as a box of frogs, he will drag Rangers down to liquidation mk2, it's inevitable with an idiot like him in charge

More popcorn required

Edited June 25, 2017 by jbee647

[269miles]

Maybe Ashley took the money whilst his shares were still worth something? Maybe Ashley made the deal regarding the retail contract to ensure he seen some money back from his investment and to make some money for sports direct? Who knows. Cause it's Scotland and cause it's Rangers it will be painted in the media as a win for King. Everyone else will always remain pessimistic as to any dealings at that club, nothing ever seems above board when Rangers are concerned. It will be an undoubted morale boost for Rangers fans and a welcome break from the doom and gloom surrounding them. My own personal view is I wish Rangers fans would be as stubborn against King. He gets a very easy ride from the Rangers fans. It might be a brave face on things cause he is slandered pillar to post by any Celtic minded person but they do seem to lap up his rubbish and accept that he has delivered very little of what he has promised.

 

As a side, club72 are the fan owned share holders who have the orange lodge Star of David as its logo, am I correct in thinking that?

Only in the Glasgow media could a club , with no cash , no leadership and absolutely no prospects be painted as "winning" a battle against a billionaire shareholder and saviour of the club (he loaned them ?2 million when no one else could or would) that sees the billionaire simply walk away from the club. The same club that binned the Ashley appointed Sevco directors, who would have sorted the club out and who might well have been able to invest Ashley's billions into Sevco.

 

Rangers are finished so long as King is associated with that club. 

 

 

[ToadKiller Dog]

No Mad Vlad type response from the red tops I see

The truth is King is as mad as a box of frogs, he will drag Rangers down to liquidation mk2, it's inevitable with an idiot like him in charge

More popcorn required

Certainly Spiers wants back into Inbox , brown tonging King on Sportsound yesterday .The host of the show even referred to Servo as we at one point .

So don't expect any real critical look at the Orcs from the media ,fawning praise and sheer blind optimism the Orcs are back , business as usual is all you will hear from them .

[Doc Rob]

Tell the people what they want to hear. Same club, nothing ever happened, and by the way nothing that happened whilst it wasn't happening counts.

[IveSeenTheLight]

Not sure how you can paint the recent events with the retail deal and Ashley selling his shares as a negative for Rangers. I find this forum embarrassing at times.

Have you thought this through.

Quite possibly a fire sale.

 

Hypothesise this scenario.

 

Ashley: "SevCo, as per our contract, you must pay up for last years stock that wasn't bought"

SevCo: "We are unable to afford this, your getting nothing"

Ashley: "You surely must have funds as your spending in the transfer market"

SevCo: " Yes, well you see, were trying to reach out beyond our realistic expectations and are gambling via soft loans, that we will reach the group stages of the Europa Leage and make a return on our investment"

 

Ashley ponders this very tough unlikely outcome, considering SevCo are unseeded in even QR2, let alone QR3 AND QR4 where some very tough opposition enter.

 

Ashley: "How about we retain the shirts from this year as the first team strip and you make an announcement to convince the supporters to start buying the merchandice again? I'll then relieve you of your payment this year" Ashley looking to shift the stock he is unlikely to see payment of.)

SevCo: "Ok, we'll need something to persuade the Orcs to change their mindset. How about a change in percentage from 51% to 75%?

Ashley: "I'll move to 55% on a one year clear the stock deal, however if I'm having to move position in order to realise the revenue, I'd like to deleverge myself from SevCo by way of selling my shares (Before they're worth nothing")

SevCo: "That works for us as well spin this as a good deal for Rangers"

 

Meanwhile, Ashley gets the maximum out of SevCo before their latest fight with Administration.

[Diadora Van Basten]

Have you thought this through.

Quite possibly a fire sale.

 

Hypothesise this scenario.

 

Ashley: "SevCo, as per our contract, you must pay up for last years stock that wasn't bought"

SevCo: "We are unable to afford this, your getting nothing"

Ashley: "You surely must have funds as your spending in the transfer market"

SevCo: " Yes, well you see, were trying to reach out beyond our realistic expectations and are gambling via soft loans, that we will reach the group stages of the Europa Leage and make a return on our investment"

 

Ashley ponders this very tough unlikely outcome, considering SevCo are unseeded in even QR2, let alone QR3 AND QR4 where some very tough opposition enter.

 

Ashley: "How about we retain the shirts from this year as the first team strip and you make an announcement to convince the supporters to start buying the merchandice again? I'll then relieve you of your payment this year" Ashley looking to shift the stock he is unlikely to see payment of.)

SevCo: "Ok, we'll need something to persuade the Orcs to change their mindset. How about a change in percentage from 51% to 75%?

Ashley: "I'll move to 55% on a one year clear the stock deal, however if I'm having to move position in order to realise the revenue, I'd like to deleverge myself from SevCo by way of selling my shares (Before they're worth nothing")

SevCo: "That works for us as well spin this as a good deal for Rangers"

 

Meanwhile, Ashley gets the maximum out of SevCo before their latest fight with Administration.

I suspect you are on the right track. There was a liability for Rangers to buy the strips and Ashley hates King so is unlikely to have any goodwill to Rangers.

[jimbojambo]

So the Record calls King the Ibrox chairman? I'm confused as I thought he had no official connection with the club?

[Mysterion]

I suspect you are on the right track. There was a liability for Rangers to buy the strips and Ashley hates King so is unlikely to have any goodwill to Rangers.

Probably has some elements correct.

Ultimately -

 

Sold shares at 27p when current valuation as per the Takeover Panel Instructions is 20p.

 

Has Rangers fans buying lots of merch.

 

Controls the income stream for the online presence.

 

Add that the Takeover Panel are rumoured to be taking further action (which could lead to knock on problems for Ashley) then it looks like he has limited his exposure should things go wrong.

[jambovambo]

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/06/25/the-importance-of-being-dignified/

[socrates82]

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2017/06/25/the-importance-of-being-dignified/

 

What a bizarre writing style! "I am informed..." Shades of Candid Cameron and his sealed envelopes.

[jambovambo]

What a bizarre writing style! "I am informed..." Shades of Candid Cameron and his sealed envelopes.

... dear reader.

[Spellczech]

What a bizarre writing style! "I am informed..." Shades of Candid Cameron and his sealed envelopes.

it is insistence on including middle names in order to assume gravitas that I find weird.

[YHD Jambo]

So Real Madrids champions league win doesn't count, as The Rangers weren't in it according to Kings logic.

 

May as well remove Leicesters EPL win from the record books as The Rangers weren't in it.

[milky_26]

So Real Madrids champions league win doesn't count, as The Rangers weren't in it according to Kings logic.

 

May as well remove Leicesters EPL win from the record books as The Rangers weren't in it.

at least our scottish championship win is valid

[YHD Jambo]

at least our scottish championship win is valid

 

King can't deny that.

[buzzbomb1958]

King can't deny that.

Aye he will ,sevco didn't try a leg so they weren't in it

Edited June 26, 2017 by buzzbomb1958

[jambovambo]

It also means Celtic's win in 05/06 didn't count, as Rangers were third after us.

 

Am I doing this right ?

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by jambovambo

[Prince Buaben]

Have you thought this through.

Quite possibly a fire sale.

 

Hypothesise this scenario.

 

Ashley: "SevCo, as per our contract, you must pay up for last years stock that wasn't bought"

SevCo: "We are unable to afford this, your getting nothing"

Ashley: "You surely must have funds as your spending in the transfer market"

SevCo: " Yes, well you see, were trying to reach out beyond our realistic expectations and are gambling via soft loans, that we will reach the group stages of the Europa Leage and make a return on our investment"

 

Ashley ponders this very tough unlikely outcome, considering SevCo are unseeded in even QR2, let alone QR3 AND QR4 where some very tough opposition enter.

 

Ashley: "How about we retain the shirts from this year as the first team strip and you make an announcement to convince the supporters to start buying the merchandice again? I'll then relieve you of your payment this year" Ashley looking to shift the stock he is unlikely to see payment of.)

SevCo: "Ok, we'll need something to persuade the Orcs to change their mindset. How about a change in percentage from 51% to 75%?

Ashley: "I'll move to 55% on a one year clear the stock deal, however if I'm having to move position in order to realise the revenue, I'd like to deleverge myself from SevCo by way of selling my shares (Before they're worth nothing")

SevCo: "That works for us as well spin this as a good deal for Rangers"

 

Meanwhile, Ashley gets the maximum out of SevCo before their latest fight with Administration.

 

Thats my take on it too.

[Dalstonjambo]

Have you thought this through.

Quite possibly a fire sale.

 

Hypothesise this scenario.

 

Ashley: "SevCo, as per our contract, you must pay up for last years stock that wasn't bought"

SevCo: "We are unable to afford this, your getting nothing"

Ashley: "You surely must have funds as your spending in the transfer market"

SevCo: " Yes, well you see, were trying to reach out beyond our realistic expectations and are gambling via soft loans, that we will reach the group stages of the Europa Leage and make a return on our investment"

 

Ashley ponders this very tough unlikely outcome, considering SevCo are unseeded in even QR2, let alone QR3 AND QR4 where some very tough opposition enter.

 

Ashley: "How about we retain the shirts from this year as the first team strip and you make an announcement to convince the supporters to start buying the merchandice again? I'll then relieve you of your payment this year" Ashley looking to shift the stock he is unlikely to see payment of.)

SevCo: "Ok, we'll need something to persuade the Orcs to change their mindset. How about a change in percentage from 51% to 75%?

Ashley: "I'll move to 55% on a one year clear the stock deal, however if I'm having to move position in order to realise the revenue, I'd like to deleverge myself from SevCo by way of selling my shares (Before they're worth nothing")

SevCo: "That works for us as well spin this as a good deal for Rangers"

 

Meanwhile, Ashley gets the maximum out of SevCo before their latest fight with Administration.

Strikes me as very likely to be something like this. Although I guess a certain poster will be along to tell everyone how we have been reading celtic minded blogs in a bit and project his opinion despite being based on as much conjecture (and even less logic than ours) as fact.

[Walter Bishop]

Rangers new signing Herrera pictured with hand me down training kit on today!

 

Not sure how to post pics from phone but it's on twitter, Jon Toral's initials have been peeled off and Herreras put on his old top!

 

 

[Footballfirst]

Rangers new signing Herrera pictured with hand me down training kit on today!

 

Not sure how to post pics from phone but it's on twitter, Jon Toral's initials have been peeled off and Herreras put on his old top!

 

[buzzbomb1958]

That's a new low for sevco Glasgow press will spin this by saying sevco have learned their lessons from the past and are being more prudent,hell we are such a close squad they share the same bar of soap in the showers

[Footballfirst]

........ too late

Edited June 28, 2017 by Footballfirst

[kingdannyb]

If they do finally decide the EBTs are taxable, who pays the tax ?

 

Oldco in liquidation or (pleasepleasepleaseplease) the recipients ?

[reaths17]

If they do finally decide the EBTs are taxable, who pays the tax ?

 

Oldco in liquidation or (pleasepleasepleaseplease) the recipients ?

unfortunately, it would just highlight again, the corruption within the SFA and SPLIF and be dumped on the oldco, unless there was an insistence from the taxman/creditors of oldco for a review of lord whats his faces bogus phoenix judgement, which in itself was an internal whitewash and not a legally binding one.

[Footballfirst]

If they do finally decide the EBTs are taxable, who pays the tax ?

 

Oldco in liquidation or (pleasepleasepleaseplease) the recipients ?

It will depend on the individual as HMRC have already indicated that they will chase individuals who don't repay their loans.  As I understand it from what has previously been said by HMRC, but also SDM in court, individuals have been  given options either to repay their loans back to the trust (in which case the oldco would be liable), pay the tax due themselves, or wait for HMRC to chase them for the tax, in which case the tax due would be assessed in tax year 2018/19 and be payable by the end of January 2020.  If the individuals end up paying the tax, then no penalties or interest would be applied.  I don't know if HMRC would still claim the interest and penalties from the Oldco.

 

For SDM it would mean paying paying at least ?2.5m (if his EBT loan wasn't grossed up) or up to ?4.2m (if his EBT loan was grossed up).

 

I don't know what the plan is for the non UK tax payers who received EBTs.

Edited June 28, 2017 by Footballfirst

[jambovambo]

Whatever way, it's popcorn time again

[colinmaroon]

 

 

 

Very, very funny!!!

[The Gasman]

It's certainly squeaky bum time for the players who had ebt's if hector comes calling. [emoji1]

Not just the players, I'd guess some Agents may be losing sleep over having their clients questioning just what they got a percentage for if their advice turned out to be wrong....

[Hagar the Horrible]

Dorrans might be on his way,  where is the money coming from????  I hope they end up being classed as a pheonix

[RobboM]

Dorrans might be on his way,  where is the money coming from????  I hope they end up being classed as a pheonix

Only if they can free up someone from the squad with the same initials  

[RobNox]

Only if they can free up someone from the squad with the same initials

[wavydavy]

Dorrans might be on his way,  where is the money coming from????  I hope they end up being classed as a pheonix

 

According to King the money is being provided by the Directors but i bet has has put in the princely sum of diddly squat.

[Footballfirst]

The Oldco's holding company TRFCG / Wavetower is now officially deceased.

 

[269miles]

It will depend on the individual as HMRC have already indicated that they will chase individuals who don't repay their loans.  As I understand it from what has previously been said by HMRC, but also SDM in court, individuals have been  given options either to repay their loans back to the trust (in which case the oldco would be liable), pay the tax due themselves, or wait for HMRC to chase them for the tax, in which case the tax due would be assessed in tax year 2018/19 and be payable by the end of January 2020.  If the individuals end up paying the tax, then no penalties or interest would be applied.  I don't know if HMRC would still claim the interest and penalties from the Oldco.

 

For SDM it would mean paying paying at least ?2.5m (if his EBT loan wasn't grossed up) or up to ?4.2m (if his EBT loan was grossed up).

 

I don't know what the plan is for the non UK tax payers who received EBTs.

FF I wouldn't normally disagree with you but I disagree on this.

 

I don't know if it's an internet fake news story or not, but it has been said HMRC offered companies the chance to settle on these arrangements years ago (I remember seeing Arsenal being mentioned).

 

Rangers clearly gambled the farm on winning and didn't - I can't see HMRC not pressing the nuclear button and going after the individuals involved - if the ruling goes their way. And surely the ruling will be that this is not a loan but an avoidance scheme - with all the pain that comes with that. I don't see that repaying a "loan" that is deemed to be remuneration will escape the tax & NIC that should have been paid on that remuneration. 

 

I cannot see how these folks can avoid a massive bill with massive interest added , at least. If HMRC decide to add penalties then this could be ruinous but HMRC won't care about that. 

[Footballfirst]

FF I wouldn't normally disagree with you but I disagree on this.

 

I don't know if it's an internet fake news story or not, but it has been said HMRC offered companies the chance to settle on these arrangements years ago (I remember seeing Arsenal being mentioned).

 

Rangers clearly gambled the farm on winning and didn't - I can't see HMRC not pressing the nuclear button and going after the individuals involved - if the ruling goes their way. And surely the ruling will be that this is not a loan but an avoidance scheme - with all the pain that comes with that. I don't see that repaying a "loan" that is deemed to be remuneration will escape the tax & NIC that should have been paid on that remuneration. 

 

I cannot see how these folks can avoid a massive bill with massive interest added , at least. If HMRC decide to add penalties then this could be ruinous but HMRC won't care about that. 

Arsenal settled with HMRC very early on (around 2005?).  HMRC's investigation into Rangers started in 2004, but Rangers (Murray Group) played silly buggers and denied the existence of the side letters in 2005 and were generally obstructive since then, hence HMRC went after them as they did.

 

In the 2016 budget there were a number of initiatives designed to increase the tax take from EBT schemes and ensure that various loopholes were closed.

 

The HMRC advice document can be found here https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tackling-disguised-remuneration-update/tackling-disguised-remuneration-update and here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/disguised-remuneration-schemes-claiming-to-avoid-the-new-loan-charge-spotlight-36

 

The relevant bits read as follows:

 

What to do if you?re using one of these schemes

Users of these schemes can pay back the outstanding loan in full by 5 April 2019 or settle with HMRC to avoid accruing interest.

If you?re already speaking to someone at HMRC about your use of a disguised remuneration scheme, you should contact them.

 

Operative date

Changes to prevent the future use of disguised remuneration schemes, such as loan transfers, the close companies? gateway and the release, or write-off, of a disguised remuneration loan, will have effect from 6 April 2017.

 

The loan charge will have effect from Royal Assent to Finance Bill 2017, and apply where a disguised remuneration loan, or part of it, is outstanding on 5 April 2019.

 

Tackling the existing use of disguised remuneration schemes

The loan charge will apply to the outstanding balance of disguised remuneration loans on 5 April 2019 that were made after 5 April 1999. The amount of the loan outstanding is, broadly, the principal of the loan less any repayments. From 17 March 2016, only payments in money made by the relevant person are allowable as repayments. Any money repayment connected with a tax avoidance arrangement, excluding the arrangement under which the loan was made, will be disregarded. The loan charge will also apply to loan transfers, referred to in the legislation as quasi-loans.

 

Impact on individuals, households and families

This measure is expected to affect up to 40,000 individuals who have entered into disguised remuneration avoidance schemes. Some of these individuals will be unable to repay the loans, agree a settlement with HMRC before 5 April 2019, or pay the loan charge arising on 5 April 2019. The government anticipates that some of these individuals will become insolvent as a result.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Footballfirst