The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Sidsnot]

Not really, it's the thuggish element in their fanbase. Coral doesn't want its employees threatened or its windows tanned. It also doesn't want to lose half of its Glasgow income. That's why the lawyers danced a strange gavotte arguing about the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin rather than the facts.

 

The real power broker within the game is Peter Lawwell at Celtic.

You mean the guy who said after Rangers died that money should be more evenly spread between SPL clubs,which it was.

[djg001]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jerah Jambo]

The power and influence a team called rangers has in this country is even greater than even i imagined. We've seen it with match officials, the media and the football authorities. Even all the other clubs seem to humbly accept their position being meekly subservient to a team called rangers. Now their influence through fear, secret handshakes or whatever affects straight forward cases in the courts. Scottish football as a fair sport is just not possible and never will be until there is no team called rangers.

 

This whole thing has been entertaining for those of us reading this thread. However, regardless of what the decision is I would think there are joint pre-written press releases already sitting in SFA/SPFL desk drawers at Hampen waiting to be released at the appropriate time to confirm that as far as they are concerned Rangers are and always will be the same team, it will take more than a court case for them to say otherwise, they really don't do reality.

[jamboz]

FFS, Ashley's legal team have fecked it up a couple of times and now this lot. Completely inept!

[jambovambo]

FFS, Ashley's legal team have fecked it up a couple of times and now this lot. Deliberately inept!

Fixed that for you.

[Doc Rob]

I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed. All Coral had to do was say 'that club went bust, the new club may have the same name but they aren't the same club'. Easy win - the facts are undeniable. And they were too scared to do so.

[jambovambo]

No coverage of Kinloch v Corals in the Herald.

 

How about the DR or the Scotsman ?

 

If not, why not ?

 

Not enough room ?

 

(Beckham to be on desert island discs; Ants navigate using the sun; unicyclist sets off across Scotland ...)

[Alva-Jambo]

The problems with Rangers are in my view that is..

 

- 1  They will not be able to catch up to Celtic level without spending 20-40 Million and all that would take 2 -3 more seasons,  and the " faithfull" will start to walk away, reducing income. 

 

2: they still think they are big, though they do have a large fanbase, the income is insufficient in Scotland but they can't get a move. 

 

3: Dave King seems reticent to stump up say  ?20M,  and certainly not while Warburton remains.  One will go  ( probably Warburton in the summer).

 

4  A new money man is needed,  Who would spend say  ?50 Million, when they can never see a good return for it in this Scottish setup.  this money would have to guarantee Champion League football

to get a return on the investment. 

 

[tartofmidlothian]

No coverage of Kinloch v Corals in the Herald.

 

How about the DR or the Scotsman ?

 

If not, why not ?

 

Not enough room ?

 

(Beckham to be on desert island discs; Ants navigate using the sun; unicyclist sets off across Scotland ...)

 

To be fair

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-werent-relegated-claim-bookie-9648117

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15017077.Coral_being_sued_for_refusing___250k_payout_over_Rangers_relegation_in_the_year_of_financial_meltdown/

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/coral-face-court-over-rangers-relegation-bet-1-4337988

[jambovambo]

... dated 18th (Tues, therefore based on Monday's proceedings), 11th and 12th January respectively ...

 

Hardly reporting on progress of the case.

[jambovambo]

Racing Post covers it :

 

https://beta.racingpost.com/news/bookmaker-in-court-over-refusal-to-pay-250-000-rangers-relegation-bet/272420

 

And there's a Mr Kinloch parody account @KinlochMr

Edited January 20, 2017 by jambovambo

[busby1985]

The record have decried to run the story that someone is going to bid ?6million for McKay.............hahahaha!

[reaths17]

the Scotsman is still trying to keep the myth going

 

"However, Scottish Premier League clubs voted to refuse Rangers entry into the top tier, effectively relegating the club into Scotland?s Third Division."

 

 

if you were refused entry, you surely were never in.

 

so if you were never in, how could you be relegated ?

 

the record was pretty near the truth, bit of a shock there.

[Deevers]

the Scotsman is still trying to keep the myth going

 

"However, Scottish Premier League clubs voted to refuse Rangers entry into the top tier, effectively relegating the club into Scotland?s Third Division."

 

 

if you were refused entry, you surely were never in.

 

so if you were never in, how could you be relegated ?

 

the record was pretty near the truth, bit of a shock there.

 

Scottish Sports "journalism" in a nutshell.

[DETTY29]

the Scotsman is still trying to keep the myth going

 

"However, Scottish Premier League clubs voted to refuse Rangers entry into the top tier, effectively relegating the club into Scotland?s Third Division."

 

 

if you were refused entry, you surely were never in.

 

so if you were never in, how could you be relegated ?

 

the record was pretty near the truth, bit of a shock there.

'Effectively' relegating.

 

i.e they didn't get relegated but we aren't prepared t tell the truth.

[Alva-Jambo]

The word infers pre-existence so of course they were never " relegated".  End of story.  They started, as Newco. 

 

They remain newco. 

[jambovambo]

https://johnjamessite.com Heh

[Doc Rob]

No mechanism for dropping a club three leagues, so not a relegation.

 

What actually happened (the attempted reinsertion into the SPL, the attempted insertion into the Championship and the final admission into D2) was very well publicised indeed at the time. Amazed it will take the judge 3 weeks to come up with a verdict - the facts are 100% clear. Rangers died and the club who took their place were admitted into the fourth tier (even that was too good for them). No relegation took place and the bet was invalid. Should have bet on admin.

[Hashimoto]

https://johnjamessite.com Heh

Perfect.....For me summarises everything. Should be posted on all media outlets as well as sent in triplicate to the SFA. 

[N Lincs Jambo]

https://johnjamessite.com Heh

 

Good read that jambovambo. Looks like since John James won that award and was effectively outed, had to go into exile etc that he has decided to really take the gloves off. Looking forward to seeing more but would hope that he will soon also have some decent ammo against the green arse cheek!

[buzzbomb1958]

There is no old firm therefore no Rangers they do not exist in anyone's mind apart from the press ,gfa,and the zombies who follow them .If the judge ain't a mason he'd say so therefore judgement goes corals way simples

[jambovambo]

Bland and inaccurate summary in Herald today :

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/15037963.Herald_Sport_Diary__Betting_on_relegated_Rangers__American_footballers_in_Paisley_and_the_irritating_Neil_Warnock/

[Justin Z]

Good read that jambovambo. Looks like since John James won that award and was effectively outed, had to go into exile etc that he has decided to really take the gloves off. Looking forward to seeing more but would hope that he will soon also have some decent ammo against the green arse cheek!

 

He certainly does not pull any punches as regards them either.  Got torn into Peter Lawwell in one piece he wrote a couple of weeks back, blasting him for his blatant pandering to the "blue pound". 

[jambovambo]

James Doleman ?@jamesdoleman 3m3 minutes ago

• Interesting discussion on Kinloch v Coral case in last 15 minutes of latest podcast
• http://www.attheraces.com/finalfurlongpodcast ?

 

[Diadora Van Basten]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/38825752

 

If this was the SFA they would have convened an arms length investigation by a judge and not provided them with the evidence they required so that they came to a "No sporting advantage advantage gained ruling" and the Russians could keep their medals!

[Hagar the Horrible]

What was/when is?  the final judgement of that case, do Coral have to pay out?  Are the Zombies ehhh Zombies?  If they are the same club, should the Big Tax case still need paying then?

[Strachsuit]

What was/when is?  the final judgement of that case, do Coral have to pay out?  Are the Zombies ehhh Zombies?  If they are the same club, should the Big Tax case still need paying then?

 

I believe judgement was expected "within three weeks" so I would imagine next week at some point. 

[B.S.]

The punter should win his money. Corals didnt present any of the obvious evidence they could have used. The fact Corals own advertising material declared rangers were back after relegation leaves the judge with no option but to rule in favour of the punter.

[Hagar the Horrible]

The punter should win his money. Corals didnt present any of the obvious evidence they could have used. The fact Corals own advertising material declared rangers were back after relegation leaves the judge with no option but to rule in favour of the punter.

 

Its as though they put up a weak defence so they could stop having all their windeas panelled in,  the cost to losing this one would outweigh the cost of winning

[Jamboelite]

Its as though they put up a weak defence so they could stop having all their windeas panelled in, the cost to losing this one would outweigh the cost of winning

Then just pay it in the first place and save the legal fees.

[buba]

.

[...a bit disco]

The liquidators of Rangers Football Club plc have launched a multi-million pound legal action against the company's former administrators.

 

The claim has been lodged by BDO against Paul Clark and David Whitehouse of accountancy firm Duff & Phelps at Edinburgh's Court of Session.

 

BDO are seeking up to ?28.9m following Clark and Whitehouse's handling of the administration process.

 

Rangers entered administration in February 2012.

 

Four months later, the company's business and assets were sold to a consortium led by Charles Green for ?5.5m.

 

BDO were then appointed as liquidators, and have since conducted a review of the events leading up to administration through to the sale of the assets.

'No other option'

 

In November 2014, BDO agreed a settlement for ?24m in a claim against Collyer Bristow, the legal firm that acted for Craig Whyte in his purchase of Rangers Football Club plc from Sir David Murray in May 2011.

Those funds were added to the creditors' pot, as will any monies raised from the legal action against Clark and Whitehouse.

 

In a statement, BDO said: "The joint liquidators, following extensive deliberations with their professional advisors and the liquidation committee, have taken the decision to issue a claim against the former Rangers' administrators Paul Clark and David Whitehouse, of Duff & Phelps.

 

"During the course of the liquidation, questions have arisen regarding the strategy previously adopted by the former administrators, which have not, to date, been adequately answered.

"In seeking clarity, the joint liquidators have been left with no other option but to pursue the matter via the Scottish Court. The joint liquidators look forward to the resolution of this matter."

 

Criminal charges against Clark and Whitehouse relating to their involvement with Rangers Football Club plc were dropped in June 2016.

 

Duff & Phelps have been approached for comment.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38896812?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_sportsound&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=scotland

[trotter]

So is this to do with the fact that the assets were likely worth a lot more than the 5.5m that was paid for them?

[Alva-Jambo]

That topic never seems to die, unlike the original Club. 

[Diadora Van Basten]

So is this to do with the fact that the assets were likely worth a lot more than the 5.5m that was paid for them?

Compare the behaviour of Duff and Phelps with Hearts administrators.

 

Hearts administrators slashed costs whilst Duff and Phelps wanted to sign players and fought to overturn a registration ban.

[Footballfirst]

So is this to do with the fact that the assets were likely worth a lot more than the 5.5m that was paid for them?

 

It could be. However the administrators were originally charged with that in the Fraudco criminal proceedings, but subsequently had the charges dropped, so it could be difficult to prove.

 

I was in court when the Judge dismissed the charges, so I know some of the background, but reporting restrictions remain in place so I can't say any more.  Let's say the reasoning was pretty simple.

[Mikey1874]

A wee turn up

 

But quite logical really

 

Duff and Phelps might find as others have that civil action can be a lot harder hitting than criminal

Edited February 7, 2017 by Mikey1874

[Frank]

A wee turn up

 

But quite logical really

 

Duff and Phelps might find as others have that civil action can be a lot harder hitting than criminal

Aye, Badwillie and Robertson would testify (pun intended).

[Footballfirst]

The BBC has added another paragraph to the original article.

 

BDO added: "The joint liquidators consider that the former joint administrators failed to take actions which would have reduced costs during the administration period and realised additional value from the company's assets over and above that obtained from the sale of the business and assets to Sevco."

 

In other words they should have emptied more of the high earners like McCoist and Jig earlier in the process, and obtained transfer fees for those who chose not to TUPE to Sevco

Edited February 7, 2017 by Footballfirst

[davieholt]

The BBC has added another paragraph to the original article.

 

BDO added: "The joint liquidators consider that the former joint administrators failed to take actions which would have reduced costs during the administration period and realised additional value from the company's assets over and above that obtained from the sale of the business and assets to Sevco."

 

In other words they should have emptied more of the high earners like McCoist and Jig earlier in the process, and obtained transfer fees for those who chose not to TUPE to Sevco

I'm confused. How could they obtain transfer fees for players who refused to TUPE across?

[PeterintheRain]

I'm confused. How could they obtain transfer fees for players who refused to TUPE across?

 

 They could have sold them off before the club went into liquidation.  Offered players a wage cut. They did everything they could to avoid saving money.  Just more GFA fraud.

[DETTY29]

I'm confused. How could they obtain transfer fees for players who refused to TUPE across?

Because these guys would have been assets on the The Rangers plc company balance sheet which BDO are in the process of liquidating ?

Edited February 7, 2017 by DETTY29

[DETTY29]

The BBC has added another paragraph to the original article.

 

BDO added: "The joint liquidators consider that the former joint administrators failed to take actions which would have reduced costs during the administration period and realised additional value from the company's assets over and above that obtained from the sale of the business and assets to Sevco."

 

In other words they should have emptied more of the high earners like McCoist and Jig earlier in the process, and obtained transfer fees for those who chose not to TUPE to Sevco

FF,

 

Couple of Qs

 

 - Didn't Steven Davis refuse to TUPE over, but Green / TRFC still managed to procure a transfer fee from Southampton i.e that should really have gone to BDO and ergo BDO could potentially now claim against TRFC.

 

- And what of the SPL winnings of c ?2.3m that was retained by the SPL as part of the 5 way agreement to allow Sevco Scotland to receive a football license.  I'd imagine if this was in doubt, BDO would chase the SPFL although I recall Green did claim these should have been his.

 

And a further Q, different matter.

 

 

Derek Johnstone has now apparently claimed that Rangers are not out of compliance with Uefa FFP rules because of all the capital expenditure projects at Ibrox and Auchenhowie.   Perhaps some mileage if he has been briefed by TRFC / Level5 or alternatively jumped the gun if expenditure was out of Uefa timelines.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

The BBC has added another paragraph to the original article.

 

BDO added: "The joint liquidators consider that the former joint administrators failed to take actions which would have reduced costs during the administration period and realised additional value from the company's assets over and above that obtained from the sale of the business and assets to Sevco."

 

In other words they should have emptied more of the high earners like McCoist and Jig earlier in the process, and obtained transfer fees for those who chose not to TUPE to Sevco

Did RFC not retain it's SFA membership well into the transfer window? If so, could BDO's case not be that RFC should have been able to sell all saleable players for much more than they were sold to Sevco for? After all, Duff and Phelps responsibility was to RFC, not to Sevco, and it goes without saying that the players, themselves, were valued at more than ?5.5m! I find it doubtful, though, that the players, alone, could have raised a figure of ?28.9m, so there must be more to it than just the players, perhaps Ibrox and Murray Park were valued way too low!

[Jambo-Jimbo]

The BBC has added another paragraph to the original article.

 

BDO added: "The joint liquidators consider that the former joint administrators failed to take actions which would have reduced costs during the administration period and realised additional value from the company's assets over and above that obtained from the sale of the business and assets to Sevco."

 

In other words they should have emptied more of the high earners like McCoist and Jig earlier in the process, and obtained transfer fees for those who chose not to TUPE to Sevco

 

For example they could have drove along the M8 on the morning of the game with us, instead of staying in a 5 star hotel overnight.

That would have cost a pretty penny, which really didn't need to have been spent.

[Deevers]

A guy called Jonathon who works in the city of London was cut off from radio Clyde tonight when he was about to divulge information about the finances at sevco being far worse than being reported. [emoji848]

 

 

Better send out for more popcorn.

[Jamdub]

Hooz goat the keys to the big hoose that's falling doon !!! 

Edited February 7, 2017 by Jamdub

[marshallschunkychicken]

Said there was a massive story re finances that journos should be onto, mysteriously cut off & no attempt to phone him back. [emoji6]

'Jonathan? Jonathan? Oh, he seems to have gone... next caller.'

[RobNox]

I'm confused. How could they obtain transfer fees for players who refused to TUPE across?

I'm guessing they mean players that did transfer across, which included those on big contracts who were unlikely to receive a better deal by jumping ship.  Elbows would be the prime example, was 36 years old but on over ?10k a week apparently.  It could also extend to the management team, McCoist was on a big salary.

 

If you think back to our administration, higher earners whose contracts were expiring were let go.  Others who could command a transfer fee were sold to bring in much needed cash.

That's pretty much the way for any club who enters administration, but didn't appear to be the case with Rangers.  I can't recall any high profile player either being released, or sold.

I'm sure they actually brought some players in, though happy to be corrected on that point if my memory is playing tricks.

[Footballfirst]

Did RFC not retain it's SFA membership well into the transfer window? If so, could BDO's case not be that RFC should have been able to sell all saleable players for much more than they were sold to Sevco for? After all, Duff and Phelps responsibility was to RFC, not to Sevco, and it goes without saying that the players, themselves, were valued at more than ?5.5m! I find it doubtful, though, that the players, alone, could have raised a figure of ?28.9m, so there must be more to it than just the players, perhaps Ibrox and Murray Park were valued way too low!

 

Sevco was given conditional membership on 27 July in order that they could play Brechin in the diddy diddy cup. They were given full membership on 3rd August on completion of the Five Way Agreement pre requisites.  The SPL share was also transferred to Dundee on 3rd August.

 

I'm pretty sure that the players who walked away left following the "transfer of assets" to Sevco on 14 June.

 

I think that D&P would argue that their first aim is to try and save the business, then the creditors.

 

If I recall correctly a number of players took a cut in salary rather than be made redundant. However there were claims that those salary agreements included provisions that they could leave for free should the club not survive administration.  I don't know if those claims are accurate though.

 

Either way it will be interesting to hear in court about what the administrators did or didn't do while they were in charge.