The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[jambovambo]

If i can echo farin's sentiments, if not his level of sincerity, it's a real shitter that the little guy is the first one to get screwed over yet again; and i'm delighted that rangers are falling apart.

Wee Stevie, again !?

[Hagar the Horrible]

If the figures that have been quoted are accurate and RFC are haemorrhaging ?600k per month then I'm afraid a few admin staff on ?20k a year won't make much difference. This is certainly the calm before the storm in terms of cuts.

Taking into account their net income, plus taking into account the money raised from the IPO minus expenses(under investigation) by their own published figured they were losing ?600k per month, and that was accurate as of July, however the latest figures, un yet published but the last couple of months have proved that by the sharp decrease in attendances has increases the loss drastically, they needed a ?2m loan to get them to Christmas (past the AGM) but again they needed a further ?1m loan to get them to the same point, and that wont be enough to keep the lights on in December.

 

They need 31,000 paying customers to host a game at Ibrox to break even, Ibrox is costing too much for some reason? and still needs too much money spent on it, to bring it up to scratch just like our old stand. They need to reassess their stature, work on 30,000 people paying over a whole season to balance the books, Cup runs Europe, and TV money should be added on top of that, not relying on it. However sad as it is, there are a lot of admin staff that will need to be cut, The Wee Stevies of the world, however big earners from the Directors, the Management and the Playing staff should always be first. Invest in the people that run the club first, the players are commodities, but if you get the infrastructure right, then you attract better players.

[jambovambo]

Phil MacGiollaBhain ?@Pmacgiollabhain 19m19 minutes ago

For the avoidance of doubt if Ibrox customers heed Mr Dave King then liquidation is highly likely.

[Rods]

For me its sad to hear about people losing their jobs. It hopefully will unsettle the players from a selfush point of view.

[Tasavallan]

I had sympathy for their employees (ob and off the pitch) when Walter Mitty took them into administration.  But this time around I do not.   Sevco/TRFC have had 2 years to get their house in order but instead continued to spend, spend, spend.  

[Unknown user]

Is there a real, or legally possible, chance that the assets sold to SEVCO could be returned to the BDO? (Or is just internet chat room hearsay?) 

 

If this is possible, does anyone know how 'likely' is it that it will happen? 

 

(Could this be a major shadow over the clubs future like the big tax case was.)

 

When there's litigation this long after a transfer of assets, it's down to money. So much has changed since then, player contracts, image rights, badge licences, retail deals, sponsorship deals etc etc etc -  the same set of assets just don't exist any more. 

There would be a financial settlement but taking the assets back is extremely unlikely IMO. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Phil MacGiollaBhain ?@Pmacgiollabhain 19m19 minutes ago

For the avoidance of doubt if Ibrox customers heed Mr Dave King then liquidation is highly likely.

A stunning insight there, also known as stating the bleeding obvious.

[Mysterion]

Only one real thing to say then....

 

'MON THE BOYCOT!

 

:-)

[Samster]

Taking into account their net income, plus taking into account the money raised from the IPO minus expenses(under investigation) by their own published figured they were losing ?600k per month, and that was accurate as of July, however the latest figures, un yet published but the last couple of months have proved that by the sharp decrease in attendances has increases the loss drastically, they needed a ?2m loan to get them to Christmas (past the AGM) but again they needed a further ?1m loan to get them to the same point, and that wont be enough to keep the lights on in December.

 

They need 31,000 paying customers to host a game at Ibrox to break even, Ibrox is costing too much for some reason? and still needs too much money spent on it, to bring it up to scratch just like our old stand. They need to reassess their stature, work on 30,000 people paying over a whole season to balance the books, Cup runs Europe, and TV money should be added on top of that, not relying on it. However sad as it is, there are a lot of admin staff that will need to be cut, The Wee Stevies of the world, however big earners from the Directors, the Management and the Playing staff should always be first. Invest in the people that run the club first, the players are commodities, but if you get the infrastructure right, then you attract better players.

 

I know we've talked about this so many times but it keeps needing mentioned. They need a fast and deep cut of austerity, in effect a de facto administration while still alive.  The comments the other day about no cuts to the playing staff to me are simply fanciful and to keep the fans onside.

 

Hearts, Livingston, Dundee, Motherwell and whoever else conducted proper administrations.  We've all said the Duff & Phelps appointment didn't feel right and who knows what will happen now.

 

In a regular administration McCoist would have been first to be shown the door and whoever earnt less between McDowell and Durrant would have been made manager with the other following McCoist out the door. A youth coach from the academy would have been promoted to assistant. Instead all 3 kept their jobs! 

 

This is just my opinion i should state.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Samster

[scott_jambo]

I had sympathy for their employees (ob and off the pitch) when Walter Mitty took them into administration. But this time around I do not. Sevco/TRFC have had 2 years to get their house in order but instead continued to spend, spend, spend.

You're a nice guy.

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Does anyone know the details of the ?20 million owed to directors as part of the creditor list in the BDO report??

 

A lot of people assuming it's King. Could it be Whyte with the famous 'floating charge' ---- although looking at the list again there is a separate line item for debenture holders - debenture is I think the correct name for a fixed or floating charge

[naeclue]

If Rangers are liquidated again, they'd slide all the way back to the bottom division again?  Oh my sides....

 

What a mess. 

 

Curious to see if Ashley stays or goes.  I'd imagine King's call for a boycott is to drive him out.  If Phil McThingie is right, and they've found Rangers finances more of a mess than thought, maybe he's tempted?

 

Never a dull moment.

[Paolo]

A stunning insight there, also known as stating the bleeding obvious.

With the added caveat, that he is not saying it is certain, meaning he can say he is right no matter what does or does not happen.

 

Rather like a weather presenter saying there is a 90% chance of rain.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Claudia

[wright1989]

If Rangers are liquidated again, they'd slide all the way back to the bottom division again? Oh my sides....

 

What a mess.

 

Curious to see if Ashley stays or goes. I'd imagine King's call for a boycott is to drive him out. If Phil McThingie is right, and they've found Rangers finances more of a mess than thought, maybe he's tempted?

 

Never a dull moment.

Doubt Ashley has put 3 million into them just to walk away.

 

Edit: Never mind, he has security in assets.

Edited November 19, 2014 by wright1989

[Jamboelite]

I have every sympathy for all those employees who are in no way responsible and aren't there to make the decisions that matter.

 

Despite my hatred for that club I wouldn't wish the outcome of being jobless having been on lower wages 6 weeks prior to xmas on anyone, there will be families involved in this. Those responsible deserve everything coming to them however because they had the power to change it with a clean slate, ?20m and a team that had 40k ST.

 

Its like Brewster's Millions you have 3 years to put the club to the wall without making it obvious give it your best shot.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jamboelite

[Pans Jambo]

If Rangers are liquidated again, they'd slide all the way back to the bottom division again?  Oh my sides....

 

What a mess. 

 

Curious to see if Ashley stays or goes.  I'd imagine King's call for a boycott is to drive him out.  If Phil McThingie is right, and they've found Rangers finances more of a mess than thought, maybe he's tempted?

 

Never a dull moment.

 

 

Doubt Ashley has put 3 million into them just to walk away.

 

Edit: Never mind, he has security in assets.

Even if they do get liquidated, why should Sevco 2.0  (theoretically) be allowed to march straight back into an SPFL league set up. They should start clean down at the bottom of a non-league set up IMO.

[Unknown user]

I had sympathy for their employees (ob and off the pitch) when Walter Mitty took them into administration.  But this time around I do not.   Sevco/TRFC have had 2 years to get their house in order but instead continued to spend, spend, spend.  

 

Lovely

 

 

I have every sympathy for all those employees who are in no way responsible and aren't there to make the decisions that matter.

 

Despite my hatred for that club I wouldn't wish the outcome of being jobless having been on lower wages 6 weeks prior to xmas on anyone, there will be families involved in this.

 

This x 100. How quickly some forget eh?

[Don Dan]

I wonder if those players on defered wages will get paid next month? Ie Boyd and Miller.

[Pans Jambo]

I really cant for the life of me understand why the senior staff and players at that club are not being asked to take a 50% pay cut for example?

 

Why pay off the cleaners, office staff and kit boys who earn a pittance compared to Sally, Black and Elbows et all?

[William H. Bonney]

I wonder if those players on defered wages will get paid next month? Ie Boyd and Miller.

 

Are they really on deferred wages. Is there any evidence? 

[Pans Jambo]

Another 3 points lost on Saturday = Another nail in the coffin.

[Don Dan]

Are they really on deferred wages. Is there any evidence?

 

I'm sure it's was posted on this thread a while back that they we not drawing a wage this the end of the year.

[Wilson]

I wonder if those players on defered wages will get paid next month? Ie Boyd and Miller.

 ..and whether Zal gets his signing on fee paid..

[Footballfirst]

Does anyone know the details of the ?20 million owed to directors as part of the creditor list in the BDO report??

 

A lot of people assuming it's King. Could it be Whyte with the famous 'floating charge' ---- although looking at the list again there is a separate line item for debenture holders - debenture is I think the correct name for a fixed or floating charge

The ?20M didn't appear in the creditors report until BDO took over to execute the liquidation.  The directors at the end were Whyte Ellis and King.

 

The ?7M+ debentures relate to the fans who paid for the Club Deck and were guaranteed the rights to purchase a seat for life.

[DETTY29]

Even if they do get liquidated, why should Sevco 2.0  (theoretically) be allowed to march straight back into an SPFL league set up. They should start clean down at the bottom of a non-league set up IMO.

Unless the rules have been changed, then it will be the same as last time.

 

A share in the leagues will become available for someone to apply for.

 

And then the clubs will vote on whether who applies come in at the same level or start at wherever the bottom is deemed.

[Feeno]

IMO Ashley will have knew fine and well the financial situation, he'll be drip feeding them cash, get the securities signed over and be in a tidy wee position come the admin/liquidation

[Jammy T]

Can I get something straight

 

If players are on standard contracts, and they are not paid on time, even with their blessing (informally), the club will get sanctioned

 

If players sign contracts which up front defers payment for wages (even though they are playing for those wages and not getting paid for them) the club doesnt get sanctioned.

 

Is this right?

 

What's the point with this rule (other than to sanction Hearts the last couple of years)?

[Jammy T]

Also, you cant make players redundant without paying up the full o/s amount of their contract - is that right?

 

So its not financially beneficial to make players redundant other than to save on win bonuses, but in theory you have to pay a chunk of money up front?

[Pans Jambo]

Can I get something straight

 

If players are on standard contracts, and they are not paid on time, even with their blessing (informally), the club will get sanctioned

 

If players sign contracts which up front defers payment for wages (even though they are playing for those wages and not getting paid for them) the club doesnt get sanctioned.

 

Is this right?

 

What's the point with this rule (other than to sanction Hearts the last couple of years)?

What sanctions would that be other than they wont be allowed to sign anyone come January? Given what we are reading on this forum, its unlikely that they can afford to do so anyway.

[Jammy T]

What sanctions would that be other than they wont be allowed to sign anyone come January? Given what we are reading on this forum, its unlikely that they can afford to do so anyway.

It might extend out until the summer window as well

 

Plus its a "principle" question

[fraz the postie]

Let's get the collection buckets oot for them on Saturday !,

Popular .

[I.T.K]

I really cant for the life of me understand why the senior staff and players at that club are not being asked to take a 50% pay cut for example?

 

Why pay off the cleaners, office staff and kit boys who earn a pittance compared to Sally, Black and Elbows et all?

 

 

Very much this. Although... it depends what is meant by "administrative staff". 

 

Could these people be on the Ibrox payroll but never stepped foot in Ibrox etc. aka onerous contract?

Edited November 19, 2014 by I.T.K

[airdriejambo3]

Its looking like Glasgow City woman's team would make a better crack at becoming celtic's main rivals in the city. I just can't see how a club with their support cant steady the ship after starting from scratch,if I was a fan of that club id be a worried boy everytime I looked at the sports news.

[269miles]

Its looking like Glasgow City woman's team would make a better crack at becoming celtic's main rivals in the city. I just can't see how a club with their support cant steady the ship after starting from scratch,if I was a fan of that club id be a worried boy everytime I looked at the sports news.

Cannae argue with that !

[269miles]

Very much this. Although... it depends what is meant by "administrative staff". 

 

Could these people be on the Ibrox payroll but never stepped foot in Ibrox etc. aka onerous contract?

Highly unlikely IMO.

 

As for "onerous contracts" , as this came from Phil McIrishman , I'm not reading too much into this. Man City have (had ?) some of the exact same "onerous" parts applied to their tenancy at The Wastelands. The city council take (or did take) a cut of the gate money (maybe catering too) when the gates exceeded a certain figure. I can't recall the precise details but I never heard the club or the media talking about it in the emotional terms that P Mc does.

Edited November 19, 2014 by 269miles

[pettigrewsstylist]

IMO Ashley will have knew fine and well the financial situation, he'll be drip feeding them cash, get the securities signed over and be in a tidy wee position come the admin/liquidation

Its certainly a real possibility and would go a long way towards explaining his continued presence there

[269miles]

I know we've talked about this so many times but it keeps needing mentioned. They need a fast and deep cut of austerity, in effect a de facto administration while still alive.  The comments the other day about no cuts to the playing staff to me are simply fanciful and to keep the fans onside.

 

Hearts, Livingston, Dundee, Motherwell and whoever else conducted proper administrations.  We've all said the Duff & Phelps appointment didn't feel right and who knows what will happen now.

 

In a regular administration McCoist would have been first to be shown the door and whoever earnt less between McDowell and Durrant would have been made manager with the other following McCoist out the door. A youth coach from the academy would have been promoted to assistant. Instead all 3 kept their jobs! 

 

This is just my opinion i should state.

But we all know it wasn't a regular admin and we knew it from the start. The CVA was never going to get approval by HMRC but D&P insisted it would and carried on regardless. But I believe D&P always knew there would never be a CVA so......keep Rangers (RIP) alive with the look and feel of the old club so you can float it. After all , you've got all the players , you got the history and you have Sally in charge. De facto, the same club. Get an IPO out the door and the cash comes rolling in to the spivs. Sally was the face of The  Pretendgers. He fullfilled a critical role - and it wasn't as a manager.

[Footballfirst]

As for "onerous contracts" , as this came from Phil McIrishman , I'm not reading too much into this. Man City have (had ?) some of the exact same "onerous" parts applied to their tenancy at The Wastelands. The city council take (or did take) a cut of the gate money (maybe catering too) when the gates exceeded a certain figure. I can't recall the precise details but I never heard the club or the media talking about it in the emotional terms that P Mc does.

The existence of onerous contracts originated from Graham Wallace in his 120 day review.

 

"The Club has entered into a number of contracts that are onerous and not delivering value on price or service. In several instances it appears that the Club did not use lawyers to protect its interests."

[jambovambo]

"Onerous contracts"

"succulent lamb"

"off the radar wealth"

"Fat Salary"

"The Lying King"

 

This fiasco (and this thread) have provided our language with some great expressions ... forget "vaping" and other new words ...

[jambovambo]

You have to give Keith Jackson the credit for the "Off the radar" quote tbh.

 

 

He'll never live that one down.

Credit where credit's due, but I did say "this fiasco" ...

 

I think Chuck himself supplied quite a few.

 

Then there's Sir David "Duped" Murray.

[jambovambo]

We need a sort of glossary of terms ...

[XB52]

I really cant for the life of me understand why the senior staff and players at that club are not being asked to take a 50% pay cut for example?

 

Why pay off the cleaners, office staff and kit boys who earn a pittance compared to Sally, Black and Elbows et all?

they were asked before and told them to bolt

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

You have to give Keith Jackson the credit for the "Off the radar" quote tbh.

 

 

He'll never live that one down.

 

At the risk of being accurate, the byline on that says 'James Traynor'

[I.T.K]

Highly unlikely IMO.

 

As for "onerous contracts" , as this came from Phil McIrishman , I'm not reading too much into this. Man City have (had ?) some of the exact same "onerous" parts applied to their tenancy at The Wastelands. The city council take (or did take) a cut of the gate money (maybe catering too) when the gates exceeded a certain figure. I can't recall the precise details but I never heard the club or the media talking about it in the emotional terms that P Mc does.

 

I am curious about these "administrative staff" roles.

 

It does seem very quite about what they were doing. Maybe the cuts are due to company restructure rather then cost cutting. It was mentioned that Ashley did not give much in the way to the press. Maybe the PR team employed to pedal the lie of continued history has been cut!

[givememychoice]

At the risk of being accurate, the byline on that says 'James Traynor'

Thats the wrong article though. It was in the same paper (18th November 2010) and it was by Keith Jackson

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/craig-whyte-profile-the-scots-billionaire-1076110

about half way down... "By the age of 26, Whyte was already Scot land's youngest self-made millionaire. Now, 13 years on, and in charge of a vast business empire, his wealth is off the radar"

[Footballfirst]

I am curious about these "administrative staff" roles.

 

It does seem very quite about what they were doing. Maybe the cuts are due to company restructure rather then cost cutting. It was mentioned that Ashley did not give much in the way to the press. Maybe the PR team employed to pedal the lie of continued history has been cut!

The tweets that came out before the BBC article about the job losses indicated that it was the Marketing department which was being cut.  That would fit in with Sports Direct dominating the advertising space leaving little room for marketing to other advertisers.

[2NaFish]

if ashley's bid trumps king and kennedy how shit must they have been?

[The Gasman]

As somers has said king would not show proof of funds or reveal the other consortium names behind it, he was 100% right in refusing the lying kings offer. Ashley's offer & undisputed wealth blew Kennedy out the water too.

 

King claims that Somers is being more than a little bit disingenuous in stating that, and that a verbal agreement was reached with Sandy Easdale about this information.

 

According to King, if Easdale was able to deliver the necessary votes, he would in turn be supplied with the names and details of all those involved, and provided with proof of funding. This would be provided before any formal decision was made, and according to what King says, Easdale had agreed to this.

[DETTY29]

Rangers needed money quick.  Edit - how quick?  48 hours from administration quick according to BBC.

 

How quickly was King going to release the ?16m?

 

Maybe I missed the accounts being signed off and the AGM being held to get shareholder approval.

Edited November 19, 2014 by DETTY29

[Hagar the Horrible]

There is a statement about to be released according to the BBC