tartofmidlothian Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 We will find out the extent of the corruption tomorrow, and we should also see how MA reacts to this? A Massive oil tanker of worms is about to open! I bags first dibs in playing Ally in the film Funny you should mention a massive oil tanker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 On the question of Mike Ashley's loans, am I correct in believing these are secured over the Albion car park and Edminston House. Were these assets not purchased by Sevco from the proceeds of the IPO in 2012? Therefore these were not part of the original purchase from SDM by Whyte. So if it turns out the original deal was fraudulent and Sevco's right of ownership of Ibrox / Murray Park is called into question, presumably this doesn't affect their ownership of the assets purchased after the deal was concluded, in which case Ashley still has security for his loans. Or is there more to it than this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The 274 creditors of the now defunct Rangers will be watching this with interest. The court will deal with the sale of the club to Whyte pre admin & liquidation. If any other proceedings go further looking into the Ipo where the real spivery took place with green & his cronies remains to be seen. If it was to be proven that the original purchase by Whyte was fraudulent, then presumably Ibrox / Murray Park could end up in the hands of BDO who would look to dispose of these at best value for the creditors? That raises some interesting scenarios. Would Ashley make an offer for the assets? Would David King, or some other would be investor come in with an offer? How much would they need to offer for BDO to accept? What if HMRC decided they would accept Ibrox in settlement of their share of the debt? Lease it back at prohibitive rates until they recover the rest of their losses. Now that would be funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Swanson Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 On the question of Mike Ashley's loans, am I correct in believing these are secured over the Albion car park and Edminston House. Were these assets not purchased by Sevco from the proceeds of the IPO in 2012? Therefore these were not part of the original purchase from SDM by Whyte. So if it turns out the original deal was fraudulent and Sevco's right of ownership of Ibrox / Murray Park is called into question, presumably this doesn't affect their ownership of the assets purchased after the deal was concluded, in which case Ashley still has security for his loans. Or is there more to it than this? WHURZZZ THE DEEDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Hope the club and their scummy fans disappear completely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 When will worthingtn appear for me they are the key to admin/liqudation.As for MA this could be his chance to get his hands on Rangers mk3 as I would imagine his SFA deal only covers mk2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If it was to be proven that the original purchase by Whyte was fraudulent, then presumably Ibrox / Murray Park could end up in the hands of BDO who would look to dispose of these at best value for the creditors? That raises some interesting scenarios. Would Ashley make an offer for the assets? Would David King, or some other would be investor come in with an offer? How much would they need to offer for BDO to accept? What if HMRC decided they would accept Ibrox in settlement of their share of the debt? Lease it back at prohibitive rates until they recover the rest of their losses. Now that would be funny! Some good points in there we will know more tmw when the charges are noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Now that the four have been arrested (we should get more details of the charges in court tomorrow), the whole issue is now sub-judice. For JKB posters they should be careful when expressing opinions or publishing documents related to the four (five including Whyte). This Channel 4 article gives some guidance http://www.channel4.com/producers-handbook/media-law/contempt-and-reporting-legal-proceedings/contempt-or-sub-judice-rules All the current stuff re Ashley, AGM, McCoist, Accounts etc is still fair game though. Now that arrests have been made the situation has become much more complicated legally. With this in mind we are strongly advising members to be very careful about what they say about the people who have been arrested and regarding the issues in which those people were or are alleged to have been involved. This applies to anything posted anywhere on JKB about this matter - not just on this thread. We may post further advice about this later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Now that arrests have been made the situation has become much more complicated legally. With this in mind we are strongly advising members to be very careful about what they say about the people who have been arrested and regarding the issues in which those people were or are alleged to have been involved. This applies to anything posted anywhere on JKB about this matter - not just on this thread. We may post further advice about this later. I agree with this. Good post Uly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboelite Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I agree with this. Good post Uly. Im sure he's grateful for your approval. Is there any news on where Whyte is ? if i remember from previous articles didnt he have property in Monaco ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Maybe time for this whole thread to go into suspended animation until after the court proceeding are completed the as I think it may well be difficult to comment on the goings on at Sevco without some sort of reference being made to some of the main players in this whole sorry story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Maybe time for this whole thread to go into suspended animation until after the court proceeding are completed the as I think it may well be difficult to comment on the goings on at Sevco without some sort of reference being made to some of the main players in this whole sorry story. Agreed, it will be nigh impossible not to comment, tbh. The next poster after Uly already speculated on Whyte's whereabouts. Edited November 16, 2014 by scott_jambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Things could also be discussed by PM which is not open to the general viewing public. I'm not sure if that is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 No, people just have to be smarter in what they post relating to this court case that's all. Whatever is deemed ok to be printed by he media can also be discussed too. They'll be reporting restrictions but they'll also be news reports every night on the tv. Plenty other Sevco related things ongoing outside Monday's court hearing worthy of discussion, regardless of what the appeasers on here think imo. Posters are going to have to be very, very careful then. Nothing should be posted that could in any way prejudice any court case or be the cause of someone getting themselves into really hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) Posters are going to have to be very, very careful then. Nothing should be posted that could in any way prejudice any court case or be the cause of someone getting themselves into really hot water. Especially with Bears Den grassers looking for any excuse to lash out at people. Look at how they acted with the Burton's T shirts within one morning. Removed from the shelves by 10am. They are all about the vigilante "justice". If you want this Rangers debacle to go through the courts and brought to justice quickly, it's in all our interests to let the professionals do their jobs and not prejudice the case or people could get themselves in huge trouble. Edited November 16, 2014 by scott_jambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie2004 Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Posters are going to have to be very, very careful then. Nothing should be posted that could in any way prejudice any court case or be the cause of someone getting themselves into really hot water. Perhaps safer to lock down. This is going to get messy. Not our problem! Keep it that way, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Deevers and Scotty absolutely desperate to close the thread. Absolutely embarrassing display of closet hunnery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Deevers and Scotty absolutely desperate to close the thread. Absolutely embarrassing display of closet hunnery. Give it a sodding rest - and that means everyone. We're asking members to exercise a bit of cop-on, and if they see anything that they think might be a risk, we'd be grateful if they'd report it so the moderators can take a closer look. But one way or the other the moderators will be looking in, so if you post something you shouldn't - or quote something posted by someone else that they shouldn't have posted - please don't blame me if the moderators get cross with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Deevers and Scotty absolutely desperate to close the thread. Absolutely embarrassing display of closet hunnery. Someone had to say it. Plenty to discuss without mentioning anyone who's been charged. Seriously, what the **** is it with the desperation to get this thread shut down. Are you paid for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 The sub-judice rules were intended for the media & to put broadcasting restrictions on them, not for a football fans message board tbh. I can see where the mods are coming from though. Anything made public by reporters with the say so of the judge is fair game then to be discussed on here. What isn't is information that could prejudice the case. That would be anything relating to the sale of oldco to whyte in 2011 etc. I agree, but you can bet your bottom dollar that someone will post something on here thoughtlessly that does not meet that criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Someone had to say it. Plenty to discuss without mentioning anyone who's been charged. Seriously, what the **** is it with the desperation to get this thread shut down. Are you paid for this? Tbf I'm not in agreement with the "hunnery" part of the comment I was replying to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 If we wanted to close this thread we would have closed it by now. The fact that after 67,000+ posts we haven't probably means something. This thread has mileage in it yet, and the moderators are capable of weeding out anyone with an agenda or a lack of intellectual horsepower who posts something to compromise the forum. All you have to do is not be the mug who gets into bother with the moderators, and if you could help along the way that would be appreciated. So if you could just quit sniping at each other that'd-------------- ah, sod it, here goes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Agree Farin. Whats in the news is fair game. No need to close such an important thread at such a time. Besides I have some marshmallows toasting on the fire and some popcorn at the ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of the North Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Forget war chests and the Champions League, what Rangers fans do deserve is honesty about their club at last. what Rangers fans deserve? Hmm. If they wanted honesty about their club that should have started with themselves. It's the ongoing deceit of trying to pretend they are the same club that brought all this about, whether that's from a business perspective trying to pretend they are not a Phoenix company or from the fans bleating about 140 years and threatening anyone who points out they died. An honest approach would have been to start again from scratch - only the bloated watp arrogance of the hun fans would never have allowed that. They do deserve honesty, I agree, they deserve the truth to hit them all like a fecking steam train - and it is about to. Honesty. The truth. It's exactly what Rangers fans deserve - but it's the last thing they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) A good example where sub judice rules were followed recently was in the recent World's End murder trial, where Angus Sinclair's past, or even his previous acquittal in 2007, wasn't mentioned throughout the period of the trial, lest it should be considered prejudicial to the defendant. There were daily briefings from the reporters who attended court, but only to report what had happened and not offer opinions, either on the evidence presented or how the result of trial would play out. In the background, work was obviously being carried out by Mark Daly and his BBC team which enabled them to put out a programme on the murders and Sinclair's past on the same day as the verdict was given. I hope we will get more detail of the scope of the charges against the four tomorrow, but we may still be left in the dark if all we hear is that the charges relate to breaches of the Companies Act, and that the four are bailed to appear back in court some time in the new year. Edited November 16, 2014 by Footballfirst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 (edited) They'll appear, say there names etc & the charges will be read out. They'll either plead guilty or not & the case will be adjourned & a future date set imo. Their lawyers will quite rightly asked for time to prepare their cases etc. This case could take 6 months to come back to court & drag on for months after that. It's white collar crime, not a murder & of little interest to most people outside football tbh. Since this is a football forum the interest on here will continue. There is an increasing tendency on here for some posters to try to close down discussion that they don't like, Edited November 16, 2014 by Francis Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Tomorrow could be epic. What's happening tomorrow? This thread is littered with people getting over-excited and expecting the whole thing to come falling down around Rangers. It never materialises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 What's happening tomorrow? This thread is littered with people getting over-excited and expecting the whole thing to come falling down around Rangers. It never materialises.Agree with this. This thread is full of predictions of imminent demise and tons of people 'getting the popcorn' in. Wake up folks - the Huns are not going into administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Agree with this. This thread is full of predictions of imminent demise and tons of people 'getting the popcorn' in. Wake up folks - the Huns are not going into administration.They dont have to enter admin to enjoy the popcorn. Any bad shit in the news about our nearest league rivals is enough to cheer me up! If it in any small way helps our own league campaign then its good news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 They dont have to enter admin to enjoy the popcorn. Any bad shit in the news about our nearest league rivals is enough to cheer me up! If it in any small way helps our own league campaign then its good news.True, but there's some on here that keep implying/stating that they're heading for admin. They ain't. My guess is that Ashley will do what should have been done before now and make them live within their means. Which, in the short term at least, will be good for us since there will be no big spending in January - McCoist will have to make do with what he's got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 They dont have to enter admin to enjoy the popcorn. Any bad shit in the news about our nearest league rivals is enough to cheer me up! If it in any small way helps our own league campaign then its good news. Right where I'm at. Although tbf, I'm glad this thread's still open but I wish someone would ban the "get the popcorn out" chat. It's the new "tin hat on, but..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Tomorrow will be a let down. A few procedural minutes in court, then wait for the fun in the new year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 True, but there's some on here that keep implying/stating that they're heading for admin. They ain't. My guess is that Ashley will do what should have been done before now and make them live within their means. Which, in the short term at least, will be good for us since there will be no big spending in January - McCoist will have to make do with what he's got. How can Ashley make them live within their means? Ashley isn't the owner. Yeah he's helping with loans but until such times as he has final say on all matters The Rangers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 How can Ashley make them live within their means? Ashley isn't the owner. Yeah he's helping with loans but until such times as he has final say on all matters The Rangers......Folk keep forgetting that the spivs are still owners. The onerous contracts are still in place. The wifi in the stadium still has to be paid for. [emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji1] Most of the costs are in contracts, with vendors or players. The only way to cancel them is through administration or liquidation. [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] Ashley can force the club into admin or liquidation by stopping the funding. But he might want to hive of the assets as security on loans before he does. The spivs know the game is nearly up, but there's a bit of meat still on the bones and they will want to eat it all up before they leave the table. Ashley doesn't want to own the current Club with its 16m of debt. He wants the assets so he can either start a new club or sell the assets to someone who will start a new one. He'll get the stadium for 5m at the next round of funding. Then the money stops. [emoji3] [emoji3] [emoji3] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 How can Ashley make them live within their means? Ashley isn't the owner. Yeah he's helping with loans but until such times as he has final say on all matters The Rangers......He's already got two of his men on the board and got rid of Walace and Nash. I'd say that's pretty clear evidence he's calliing the shots. The Huns depend on him to keep the show on the road. And this notion that he's in there to strip them clean is pure wishful thinking. I believe he's there for the long term because he sees the potential for ongoing revenue, but only if they get their house in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 He's already got two of his men on the board and got rid of Walace and Nash. I'd say that's pretty clear evidence he's calliing the shots. The Huns depend on him to keep the show on the road. And this notion that he's in there to strip them clean is pure wishful thinking. I believe he's there for the long term because he sees the potential for ongoing revenue, but only if they get their house in order.It is currently costing him 1.5m per month to keep them alive. Can you explain how he is going to turn a profit if he keeps that going? Not forgetting that the club has contracts that oblige them to continue paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Slim Stylee Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 It is currently costing him 1.5m per month to keep them alive. Can you explain how he is going to turn a profit if he keeps that going? Not forgetting that the club has contracts that oblige them to continue paying. Look can we all agree that they're every which way but fecked? It'll be a slower death than we want, though. On and off the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 It is currently costing him 1.5m per month to keep them alive. Can you explain how he is going to turn a profit if he keeps that going? Not forgetting that the club has contracts that oblige them to continue paying.I've already said - he'll make sure that they sort themselves out so they're not running at ?1.5 monthly loss. Won't be done immediately, of course, but will be done. He won't aset strip the venture and who would buy the football club from him while he held Ibrox, marketing rights etc? I'll tell you - no one. And he's smart enough to realise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeno Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I've already said - he'll make sure that they sort themselves out so they're not running at ?1.5 monthly loss. Won't be done immediately, of course, but will be done. He won't aset strip the venture and who would buy the football club from him while he held Ibrox, marketing rights etc? I'll tell you - no one. And he's smart enough to realise that. So, in your eyes, how does he rid himself of the 1.5 mil losses. Given that the majority of that are onerous contracts that have to be adhered to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 I hope to god that when the vermin go tits up its a hell of a lot quicker and more straightforward than this lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 So, in your eyes, how does he rid himself of the 1.5 mil losses. Given that the majority of that are onerous contracts that have to be adhered to?What are these onerous contracts - are they football contracts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 What are these onerous contracts - are they football contracts?They are mainly related to things like crowd size, ground maintenance and other such ways of leeching a cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marquis Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 They are mainly related to things like crowd size, ground maintenance and other such ways of leeching a cut.Any specific examples, eg who benefits when the crowd is a particular size and by how much do they benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 So can anyone sum up what is happening today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Any specific examples, eg who benefits when the crowd is a particular size and by how much do they benefit?That is the question though - who is benefitting. There are outgoings on crowds above 30k for example into holding companies. Who is behind them? In all likelihood it is the original spivs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serge Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 That is the question though - who is benefitting. There are outgoings on crowds above 30k for example into holding companies. Who is behind them? In all likelihood it is the original spivs. May be right with the 30K figure but I'm sure there'll be ways to manipulate official crowd figures to keep them below that mark. Att: 29,548 v Alloa btw Just sayin' likes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 May be right with the 30K figure but I'm sure there'll be ways to manipulate official crowd figures to keep them below that mark. Att: 29,548 v Alloa btw Just sayin' likes Of course. Paying for cutting the grass is a tad more difficult... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeno Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Things like the cost of catering at Murray Park has been mooted as another one that has had the prices jacked up in relation to what is being provided Edited November 17, 2014 by Feeno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 What are these onerous contracts - are they football contracts? Ally McCoist - that's why he hasn't been sacked before now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 May be right with the 30K figure but I'm sure there'll be ways to manipulate official crowd figures to keep them below that mark. Att: 29,548 v Alloa btw Just sayin' likes I'm sure it was 40K that was mooted previously. Saturday's crowd was the first League attendance to drop below 30K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts