The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Footballfirst]

Phil MacGiollaBhain ?@Pmacgiollabhain 1m1 minute ago
Always nice to see that romance is not dead.
I just learned of a chap in Normandy who signed his chateau over to his wife.
#Chivalry

 

The Daily Record ?@Daily_Record

Craig Whyte is reported to be making arrangements to return to UK to help police with their inquiries into his purchase of Rangers in 2011

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

People still believing MacSirgay!

 

[DETTY29]

What are these onerous contracts - are they football contracts?

 

 

They are mainly related to things like crowd size, ground maintenance and other such ways of leeching a cut.

 

 

That is the question though - who is benefitting.

 

There are outgoings on crowds above 30k for example into holding companies. Who is behind them? In all likelihood it is the original spivs.

 

 

I'm sure it was 40K that was mooted previously.  Saturday's crowd was the first League attendance to drop below 30K.

 

 

People still believing MacSirgay!

 

Indeed Geoff,

 

Some people are prepared to quote, correctly or incorrectly, what he initially released.

[King of the North]

Anyone want to speculate on a likely endgame to all of this as far as the new club are concerned?

 

My fervent hope is that d&p's admin, then subsequent sale out of liquidation to Green, is shown to be so flawed that the assets are returned to BDO to sell in the interests of oldco creditors.

 

Thus bringing about the indisputable and final demise of any club calling itself Rangers, as version 2 joins version 1 in the grave.

 

Likely?

Edited November 18, 2014 by King of the North

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Anyone want to speculate on a likely endgame to all of this as far as the new club are concerned?

 

My fervent hope is that d&p's admin, then subsequent sale out of liquidation to green is shown to be so flawed that the assets are returned to BDO to sell in the interests of oldco creditors.

 

Thus bringing about the indisputable and final demise of any club calling itself Rangers, as version 2 joins version 1 in the grave.

 

Likely?

Who knows? I still think the court case is a sideshow.

[Strachsuit]

With clubs knowing the position they are in financially they might not be in a position to refuse low bids.

 

Beggars can't be choosers & Sevco need cash desperately.

Yeah, that's how I see it. However there are a couple of stumbling blocks before they even reach January for the chance to sell any of these players.

 

Firstly they have the small matter of no cash left to pay December's wages, then they must get cash forward to allow the accounts to be signed off. Even without the second one, they definitely need more investment to get through to January. I don't see where that's coming from, other than MA hiving more off in return.

[Chaka Demus & pliers]

I really do not like Rangers at all. See equally though, this horrendous trend of sharing Celtic fan photoshop pictures, that are not even slightly funny, is getting really nauseating, imo.

That and the ?1brokes and 3angers chat.

[soonbe110]

Gary Withey of Collyer Bristow was also Company Secretary at Rangers during Whyte's tenure.

interesting though that ?24m handed to BDO yet it appears nothing to Ticketus who have already won their legal case for ?18 m compensation. Do you think someone has settled with Ticketus as well.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Let's go in with a cheeky ?100k bid for Trigger  

[RobNox]

Anyone want to speculate on a likely endgame to all of this as far as the new club are concerned?

 

My fervent hope is that d&p's admin, then subsequent sale out of liquidation to Green, is shown to be so flawed that the assets are returned to BDO to sell in the interests of oldco creditors.

 

Thus bringing about the indisputable and final demise of any club calling itself Rangers, as version 2 joins version 1 in the grave.

 

Likely?

There are so many twists and turns it's impossible to predict.  If someone had scripted this as a soap opera, we'd all be laughing at how ridiculous and far fetched the story line was, and how many 'cartoon' bad guys keep cropping up one after the other.

 

For now, the facts are that Rangers are a club who burn more money every month than they bring in, who have reached the bottom of the biscuit tin and who have no source of external finance other than from shareholders willing to provide short term loans, or from a further issue of shares.  Who in their right mind would invest in shares in the present circumstances?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

interesting though that ?24m handed to BDO yet it appears nothing to Ticketus who have already won their legal case for ?18 m compensation. Do you think someone has settled with Ticketus as well.

Ticketus are on the creditors committee of oldco. They will get a dividend from that.

[Footballfirst]

interesting though that ?24m handed to BDO yet it appears nothing to Ticketus who have already won their legal case for ?18 m compensation. Do you think someone has settled with Ticketus as well.

Ticketus' successful claim was against Craig Whyte.  I haven't heard of them being involved in any other legal claim. (they are creditors of the Oldco though as Geoff pointed out above)

 

Its interesting that both the BDO settlement and the award against Whyte are actually generating new money in damages.

 

The Ticketus cash was real and largely went to pay off Lloyds.  It didn't directly go into RFC as the deal was with Wavetower (later TRFC Group Ltd).

Edited November 18, 2014 by Footballfirst

[Meadows]

I have posted zilch on this thread apart from a couple of questions, however i have been speaking to a NUFC fan i know who owns a large business in the Newcastle area and is heavily involved at NUFC and knows Ashley well. Needless to say i asked a few questions:

He says Ashley is a "strange bloke" and is investing in the business NOT the football club,he WILL barr the press from Ibrox (imagine that) and all info will come from 'head office'. No hesitation in selling any asset for a profit,and any bad PR or upset fans incidental.

Will probably 'freeze' season tickets IF they make it to SPFL but will introduce a levy in the way of a membership,with monies for membership by-passing the 'football' side and going directly to the 'business' side.

All in all, Ashley is a hard nosed barsteward with no conscience.

[jambovambo]

I like the cut of Ashley's jib then.

[Chrambo]

Craig Whytes on his way back

[The Mighty Thor]

Craig Whytes on his way back

I'm sure shooter wouldn't be in a hurry to come back to face the music unless he had something to say.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Yep, wonder which club will be the 1st to bid for McLeod?.

Is he that good that any team might or is he world class as in "Fleck world class"

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Fleck is a bang on comparison. Where is he these days, anyway?

Edited November 18, 2014 by "Charlie"

[2NaFish]

Fleck is a bang on comparison. Where is he these days, anyway?

 

Coventry.

 

Fleck is an unfortunate character in that he was touted to a ridiculous level - papers were demanding he play for scotland before he'd played for the rangers first team - as there was a need to blanket the media with positive rangers stories to negate the fact that very unsavoury details of rangers' financial basketcase-ry were coming to light.

 

Another player to refuse to tupe over, so alright in my books.

Edited November 18, 2014 by 2NaFish

[indianajones]

Fleck haha. Totally forgot about this 'wonder kid'.

[corryjambo]

I remember Chick Young imploring Scotland to "unleash" Fleck against the Netherlands,

 

He thought that the Dutch would be terrified of him.

 

I think Fleck had played about 3 games for the first team at that time.

 

Young is a buffoon of the highest order.

[The Mighty Thor]

Better to back freely rather than under arrest if he wants bail tbh

I'm sure Whytey boy has a few tales to tell.

I'd imagine he could make a few arses twitch.

[Radio Ga Ga]

I remember Chick Young imploring Scotland to "unleash" Fleck against the Netherlands,

 

He thought that the Dutch would be terrified of him.

 

I think Fleck had played about 3 games for the first team at that time.

 

Young is a buffoon of the highest order.

Yes, according to Dunk, he was the Scottish Rooney! Fekin erse of a man

[1874robbo]

Fleck haha. Totally forgot about this 'wonder kid'.

 

Or Ness who was the next one to be touted for greatness

[Footballfirst]

Or Ness who was the next one to be touted for greatness

You can add Greg Wylde and Rhys McCabe

[DETTY29]

In this whole saga my favourite media reported spin is that MiH/MG is drawing to a close 'as a natural conclusion'

[Deso1972]

You can add Greg Wylde and Rhys McCabe

I thought Rhys McCabe had potential, in fact the amount of abuse he took after becoming the first one to "rebel" ( irony I do love thee) was shameful. The guy was young and a great ambassador for the game in his native Polbeth, he used to train with the local boys club before the ibrox hierarchy put a stop to it ( I understand them protecting their interest but really?..)..

[Sexton Hardcastle]

Non playing staff redundancies started according to McLauchlin.

[OmiyaHearts]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30109897?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

The lowest wage earners paying the cost here whilst super salary trousers obscene amounts. Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

It's what I'd describe as a "soft admin" with no playing staff reductions.

Not sure why you seem concerned about the low earners as you're obviously keen for Rangers to go bust resulting in everyone losing their jobs.

[Chaps]

.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Chapstick

[scott_jambo]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30109897?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

The lowest wage earners paying the cost here whilst super salary trousers obscene amounts. Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

It's what I'd describe as a "soft admin" with no playing staff reductions.

 

 

You don't care about those employees.

Edited November 19, 2014 by scott_jambo

[Strachsuit]

If the figures that have been quoted are accurate and RFC are haemorrhaging ?600k per month then I'm afraid a few admin staff on ?20k a year won't make much difference. This is certainly the calm before the storm in terms of cuts.

[2NaFish]

If i can echo farin's sentiments, if not his level of sincerity, it's a real shitter that the little guy is the first one to get screwed over yet again; and i'm delighted that rangers are falling apart.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Not sure why you seem concerned about the low earners as you're obviously keen for Rangers to go bust resulting in everyone losing their jobs.

Fair point well made!

[RobNox]

I'm sure Whytey boy has a few tales to tell.

I'd imagine he could make a few arses twitch.

Possibly a few recorded conversations that some people would rather went unheard?

[RobNox]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30109897?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

The lowest wage earners paying the cost here whilst super salary trousers obscene amounts. Doesn't seem fair to me.

 

It's what I'd describe as a "soft admin" with no playing staff reductions.

No doubt Fat Salary will be looking for a transfer war chest on the back of these redundancies!  Some of these employees will earn less in a year than elbows does in a week!!

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Does the association running a countries football leagues need to be in the loop when an an associate member makes redundancies in an effort to cut costs?

[pettigrewsstylist]

PMGB's latest offering http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/big-mikes-big-decision/#more-5316 He suggests:

• The football side of operations is no longer off-limit in terms of cuts
• Ashley has underestimated (or been lied to) regarding the severity of the cuts required
• Ashley needs to pump in ?12m guaranteed to get the accounts signed off
• Failure to get accounts signed off could mean a fine of around ?200-300k
• RFC currently have enough cash to last to mid-December
• WiFi services payment now overdue and don't have cash to pay it

The WiFi story has been mentioned on here already, is it possible that they (whoever "they" are) could be the ones that serve a winding-up order on RFC? And does anyone have an idea as to what sort of cash they have outstanding to this firm?

Wow, if we beat them in style this weekend i reckon theyll implode

[The Mighty Thor]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30109897?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

 

It's what I'd describe as a "soft admin" with no playing staff reductions.

To be fair the admin and subsequent liquidation of huns mk1 was hardly a bloodletting.

[hawaii]

If I were the Dundee Utd lawyer working on the Telfer tribunal I would be contacting those Sevco employees being made redundant to ask what their package is, cos if they are only offering them cash for 2 years employment then Sevco are surely admitting they are a new club. They appear to want to claim to be a new club and an old club only when it suits their agenda.

[Footballfirst]

If I were the Dundee Utd lawyer working on the Telfer tribunal I would be contacting those Sevco employees being made redundant to ask what their package is, cos if they are only offering them cash for 2 years employment then Sevco are surely admitting they are a new club. They appear to want to claim to be a new club and an old club only when it suits their agenda.

We are led to believe that the staff were transferred from RFC (IL) to Sevco under TUPE, therefore their length of service would be preserved in any event.

[Jambo66]

If I were the Dundee Utd lawyer working on the Telfer tribunal I would be contacting those Sevco employees being made redundant to ask what their package is, cos if they are only offering them cash for 2 years employment then Sevco are surely admitting they are a new club. They appear to want to claim to be a new club and an old club only when it suits their agenda.

Totally different situation. The employees have continuous employment under TUPE. Their package will be based on the length of their employment at Rangers and Sevco.

 

The Telfer payment is not about employment, so isn't covered by TUPE. It is compensation to the club for bringing through the player and effectively replaces a transfer fee.

[pettigrewsstylist]

Anyone want to speculate on a likely endgame to all of this as far as the new club are concerned?

 

My fervent hope is that d&p's admin, then subsequent sale out of liquidation to Green, is shown to be so flawed that the assets are returned to BDO to sell in the interests of oldco creditors.

 

Thus bringing about the indisputable and final demise of any club calling itself Rangers, as version 2 joins version 1 in the grave.

 

Likely?

God thats lipsmackingly good,,,goodby one half of the bigots,,,what would the cavemen do on a Saturday? still, it would be a start of the end of sectarian nonsense

[I.T.K]

Is there a real, or legally possible, chance that the assets sold to SEVCO could be returned to the BDO? (Or is just internet chat room hearsay?) 

 

If this is possible, does anyone know how 'likely' is it that it will happen? 

 

(Could this be a major shadow over the clubs future like the big tax case was.)

[Footballfirst]

Is there a real, or legally possible, chance that the assets sold to SEVCO could be returned to the BDO? (Or is just internet chat room hearsay?) 

 

If this is possible, does anyone know how 'likely' is it that it will happen? 

 

(Could this be a major shadow over the clubs future like the big tax case was.)

I think that it is legally possible, but that the likelihood is very low.

 

We have four people charged with offences relating to the purchase of Rangers in 2011.  Even if they were all guilty as charged, It would need the courts to then decide that the whole purchase was illegal and to reverse the sale.  The implications of that would be highly contentious and damaging to TRFC/RIFC in terms of ownership of assets and future investment, but at this time I don't see it happening.

 

An analogy would be the theft and resale of someones property, e.g. a car, when the unsuspecting buyer has no rights to the car once the original ownership is established.  The buyer can try getting his money back from the person who sold him the car, but that may be problematic given that person is a crook. 

[King of the North]

I don't know.

 

I do know that oldco creditors have just received 24m, which is being described as a great result for them.

 

I also know that assets worth at least 50m were sold to Charles Green by the previous liquidators for 5.5m.

 

And that that deal is now being looked at.

 

One would hope that that means massive trouble ahead for newco.

[jock _turd]

One wonders if that through the course of the court case it comes to light that the club could not legally be sold to Green then what would be the next course of action. If somebody steals your car and flogs it, when it is found you get it back!

[Tasavallan]

God thats lipsmackingly good,,,goodby one half of the bigots,,,what would the cavemen do on a Saturday? still, it would be a start of the end of sectarian nonsense

No it's unlikely to be the end of bigotry.   Worse case scenario is that the supporters have to go down the United of Manchester route.   Form a club called Glasgow Rangers 2015 Ltd apply to join the Lowland League (like BSC Glasgow did this season).  Then automatic promotion through the divisions again.   

[DETTY29]

No it's unlikely to be the end of bigotry.   Worse case scenario is that the supporters have to go down the United of Manchester route.   Form a club called Glasgow Rangers 2015 Ltd apply to join the Lowland League (like BSC Glasgow did this season).  Then automatic promotion through the divisions again.   

Are you envisaging a team called Rangers something or other playing at Hampden for a short time.....

 

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/the-liquidation-game/

Edited November 19, 2014 by DETTY29

[I.T.K]

One wonders if that through the course of the court case it comes to light that the club could not legally be sold to Green then what would be the next course of action. If somebody steals your car and flogs it, when it is found you get it back!

 

Sounds like Whyte let his beat up car get stolen and then waited for someone to restore, service and MOT it before making a claim.