The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.

[Floyd]

 

Wasn't "She" rumoured to be Martin Bain?

 

Yup, it's done the rounds through here for a bit.

[Craig_]

Says here (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/15/ed-miliband-sports-direct-zero-hours-contracts) that 8 out of 10 Sports Direct staff are on zero-hour contracts.

 

Maybe "Super" Ally and Elbows will be next...

[Deevers]

Fairly muted coverage in most of the papers I have seen this morning to yesterday's events relating to them.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Deevers

[DETTY29]

Fairly muted coverage in most of the papers I have seen this morning to yesterday's events relating to them.

I've yet to watch Mark Daly's documentary on the World's End murders and Angus Sinclair but I'm pretty sure it won't have been made up in an afternoon.

 

If this Rangers saga ever ends up with folk in the pokey don't be surprised if the press have huge splashes the same/next day as to what they knew all along, but for legal reasons couldn't go to print. Or even allude to earlier.

Edited November 15, 2014 by DETTY29

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Where is Craig Whyte? Will he be harder to find than Bin Laden or will he brazenly strut about in some country that has no extradition treaty?

[rudi]

 

Where is Craig Whyte? Will he be harder to find than Bin Laden or will he brazenly strut about in some country that has no extradition treaty?

Russia, they seem pretty good at keeping criminals.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

 

 

Russia, they seem pretty good at keeping criminals.

 

Vlad would buy him a few voddies and they'd have a good old banter about how to wreck a football club.

[rudi]

 

 

 

 

Vlad would buy him a few voddies and they'd have a good old banter about how to wreck a football club.

Aye and they could bullshit each other all week, TBH though it wouldn't surprise me if Whyte doesn't get a right doing from some one somewhere.

[Paolo]

 

Aye and they could bullshit each other all week, TBH though it wouldn't surprise me if Whyte doesn't get a right doing from some one somewhere.

 

Even without the shinaigans, he has a face you would not tire of punching.

[Deevers]

 

 

 

Tuesday is the day you'll want to read the papers.

 

Yep, after the gang of fours court appearance. There still won't be that much said though. They can't speculate very much with a court case on the horizon. There again though apart from one or two investigative journalists most of the press have gone belly up with all the goings on involving the various Spivs with their noses in the Ibrox troughs. When the shit does eventually hit the fan big style with all of this things will really become interesting.

[maroonlegions]

So why arrest the three of the four who were with Duff and Phelps if the below is true???

 

 

"In addition, our assignments in this matter were comprehensively examined by the Insolvency Practitioners Association (?IPA?), in 2013. The IPA?s review cleared the firm of any wrongdoing or conflict of interest, affirming the position of the firm."

 

http://m.stv.tv/sport/299708-four-men-arrested-and-warrant-on-whyte-over-sale-of-rangers-in-2011/

Edited November 15, 2014 by maroonlegions

[jamboinglasgow]

.

Edited November 15, 2014 by jamboinglasgow

[JamboJay]

.

 

I'm with you 100% in this., J-i-G

[Mysterion]

They're in Govan police station right now. 6am raids & held all weekend till monday's hearing.

 

Govan cop shop is supposed to be where terror suspects are held in Scotland. Wonder if they are keeping these boys out of sight and secure so the Orcs don't send a lynch mob.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Aye and they could bullshit each other all week, TBH though it wouldn't surprise me if Whyte doesn't get a right doing from some one somewhere.

 

Why do you think he recorded most of his coversations?

I bet there have been several copies made with instructions left with lawyers.

Well "Accidents" happen all the time, don't they?

[Tasavallan]

 

So why arrest the three of the four who were with Duff and Phelps if the below is true???

 

 

"In addition, our assignments in this matter were comprehensively examined by the Insolvency Practitioners Association (?IPA?), in 2013. The IPA?s review cleared the firm of any wrongdoing or conflict of interest, affirming the position of the firm."

 

http://m.stv.tv/sport/299708-four-men-arrested-and-warrant-on-whyte-over-sale-of-rangers-in-2011/

At the time of the Whyte takeover, the 3 in question worked for MCR Partners and were advisors to Whyte, This company was later acquired by Duff & Phelps. When Rangers went into administration, Whyte insisted on Clark and Whitehead as administrators, who by now were working for D&P. D&P had to get approval from the court to be the administrators. It would now appear that there was a good reason why Whyte selected them.

 

D&P may be above board in relation to the administration/insolvency but it's employees actions prior to joining D&P may not be. Time will tell.

 

[Dutchmul]

The 4 arrests and warrant out for whyte are just the first domino to fall. Get the popcorn in, more will follow on, the admin, the sale to chuckles, the IPO, the 5 way agreement, lots more dirty laundry/fraud to be aired on this.

 

Lots of squeeky bums amongst the spivs, the sfa/sfl/spfl now that plod is involved.

 

Just need to wait for them to start turning on each other when it looks like they might be meeting mr big in the showers at Saughton/Barlinnie.

 

I wonder if Ashley does walking away........

[Dallas Green]

Here, this thread should be shut down likesay?

 

Edited November 15, 2014 by Boys In Maroon

[Dutchmul]

At the time of the Whyte takeover, the 3 in question worked for MCR Partners and were advisors to Whyte, This company was later acquired by Duff & Phelps. When Rangers went into administration, Whyte insisted on Clark and Whitehead as administrators, who by now were working for D&P. D&P had to get approval from the court to be the administrators. It would now appear that there was a good reason why Whyte selected them.

 

D&P may be above board in relation to the administration/insolvency but it's employees actions prior to joining D&P may not be. Time will tell.

 

It's quite interesting if you read the quote from D&P closely, here it is:

 

"Earlier, Duff and Phelps spokesman Marty Dauer said the firm was aware that three employees in the UK had been "detained for questioning in connection with work performed for Rangers Football Club".

He said this work "was commenced while these employees were part of MCR Partners, prior to its acquisition by Duff & Phelps in October of 2011".

He added: "Duff & Phelps has performed an internal investigation and commissioned an independent investigation of the related matters.

"As a result, we believe that our work for Rangers was conscientious, thorough and properly performed in every respect.

"Duff and Phelps has actively co-operated with all relevant investigating authorities throughout this process."

 

Now, if you read the above quote in full, it seems that he is saying all is fine, it happened before we took them over etc , now read it again and in particular the bold lines, note the use of the word commenced, he's not not saying "completed" "finished" or anything else, also the use of "our work" is telling, D&P are distancing themselves from the arrested employees.

 

His whole statement is what Woodward and Bernstein called "a non denial denial" during watergate. It looks like they are completely denying any wrongdoing but they are not, it's a very carefully worded(by lawyers probably) statement which basically says our employees may have been naughty but D&P had nothing to do with it, honest.

[DesertDawg]

............and a lot of bitter berrs in the polis

[Dutchmul]

So why arrest the three of the four who were with Duff and Phelps if the below is true???

 

 

"In addition, our assignments in this matter were comprehensively examined by the Insolvency Practitioners Association (?IPA?), in 2013. The IPA?s review cleared the firm of any wrongdoing or conflict of interest, affirming the position of the firm."

 

http://m.stv.tv/spor...angers-in-2011/

 

The 4 arrests relate to whytes purchase of rangers, not the admin.......yet

[Footballfirst]

According to the Sunday Herald, the report sent to the PF doesn't just focus on Whyte's purchase of the club from Murray, but from more than a year before the purchase up until BDO took over late in 2012

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-police-probe-events-after-green-took-over-at-club.25885297

 

"The Sunday Herald can reveal that a report sent to the ?procurator fiscal in Glasgow over the affair before the detentions related to alleged "incidents" between ?January 2010 and November 2012, a period which covers over a year before Craig Whyte took the reins at Rangers but also up to five months after the Charles Green consortium bought the assets."

 

That being the case, I think there could well be a few more people with squeaky bums today.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

According to the Sunday Herald, the report sent to the PF doesn't just focus on Whyte's purchase of the club from Murray, but from more than a year before the purchase up until BDO took over late in 2012

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/rangers-police-probe-events-after-green-took-over-at-club.25885297

 

"The Sunday Herald can reveal that a report sent to the ?procurator fiscal in Glasgow over the affair before the detentions related to alleged "incidents" between ?January 2010 and November 2012, a period which covers over a year before Craig Whyte took the reins at Rangers but also up to five months after the Charles Green consortium bought the assets."

 

That being the case, I think there could well be a few more people with squeaky bums today.

A fakeover? Really? Stunned at this news!

[Footballfirst]

Now that the four have been arrested (we should get more details of the charges in court tomorrow), the whole issue is now sub-judice.

 

For JKB posters they should be careful when expressing opinions or publishing documents related to the four (five including Whyte).

 

This Channel 4 article gives some guidance

http://www.channel4.com/producers-handbook/media-law/contempt-and-reporting-legal-proceedings/contempt-or-sub-judice-rules

 

All the current stuff re Ashley, AGM, McCoist, Accounts etc is still fair game though.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Footballfirst

[Deevers]

I'll bet the folk at HMRC are watching all these developments with interest.

[MrWinningSmith]

So what could all this drama result in?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I'll bet the folk at HMRC are watching all these developments with interest.

I bet they are actively involved.

[Allowayjambo1874]

So what could all this drama result in?

No one really knows I think. Its a huge mess and it depends on MA opinion on where this is going. If he pulls back and stops drip feeding loans they may not see out season but that's very doubtful. It may have ramafications on ability to trade on stock market and also having accounts signed off what that means football club wise I'm not sure.

[Deevers]

No one really knows I think. Its a huge mess and it depends on MA opinion on where this is going. If he pulls back and stops drip feeding loans they may not see out season but that's very doubtful. It may have ramafications on ability to trade on stock market and also having accounts signed off what that means football club wise I'm not sure.

 

I think the main problem would be if it was decided that there was anything dishonest in the way that the Fixed Assets were sold to Green and co.. That would leave the creditors of Oldco looking for them to be disposed off to pay off the debts. That might well be the final nail in the coffin for them. Going to be very interesting to see how this all pans out. Ashley must now be taking advice and looking at his options. Can't see him continuing to drip feed in loans if the very assets that would be secured against his loans look like being snatched away from Sevco. A real can of worms will have been opened and it could all take a really protracted time to unravel.

[Maple Leaf]

Now that the four have been arrested (we should get more details of the charges in court tomorrow), the whole issue is now sub-judice.

 

For JKB posters they should be careful when expressing opinions or publishing documents related to the four (five including Whyte).

 

This Channel 4 article gives some guidance

http://www.channel4.com/producers-handbook/media-law/contempt-and-reporting-legal-proceedings/contempt-or-sub-judice-rules

 

All the current stuff re Ashley, AGM, McCoist, Accounts etc is still fair game though.

 

 

 

Good advice.  Please be careful what you post, folks.

[Hagar the Horrible]

I think the initial fakeover is the current scope, but no doubt it will bleed into greens takeover and the IPO,  The telegraph hinted that Wallace and Nash have been to the SFO,  It would be better all round if it all came out.   To any huns looking in seriously guys you should be looking to force a public enquiry into the last 4 years of Rangers/Sevco and to include the SFA/SPL,  lets expose the lot then we can cleanse our game.

[269miles]

It's quite interesting if you read the quote from D&P closely, here it is:

 

"Earlier, Duff and Phelps spokesman Marty Dauer said the firm was aware that three employees in the UK had been "detained for questioning in connection with work performed for Rangers Football Club".

He said this work "was commenced while these employees were part of MCR Partners, prior to its acquisition by Duff & Phelps in October of 2011".

He added: "Duff & Phelps has performed an internal investigation and commissioned an independent investigation of the related matters.

"As a result, we believe that our work for Rangers was conscientious, thorough and properly performed in every respect.

"Duff and Phelps has actively co-operated with all relevant investigating authorities throughout this process."

 

Now, if you read the above quote in full, it seems that he is saying all is fine, it happened before we took them over etc , now read it again and in particular the bold lines, note the use of the word commenced, he's not not saying "completed" "finished" or anything else, also the use of "our work" is telling, D&P are distancing themselves from the arrested employees.

 

His whole statement is what Woodward and Bernstein called "a non denial denial" during watergate. It looks like they are completely denying any wrongdoing but they are not, it's a very carefully worded(by lawyers probably) statement which basically says our employees may have been naughty but D&P had nothing to do with it, honest.

This is worthy of further review - I think Duthcmul makes some very valid point about that statement.

 

was commenced while these employees were part of MCR Partners, prior to its acquisition by Duff & Phelps in October of 2011

 

What a bland statement. But There is no context ? It's obviously important though but why ? No doubt that will become apparent in time.

 

 

 

Duff & Phelps has performed an internal investigation

 

Why ? An investigation into what exactly ?

 

 

 and commissioned an independent investigation of the related matters. 

 

Commissioned ? An interesting choice of words, especially "independent" . Again , why and into what ? It was commissioned , but was it completed  ? What did it uncover ?

 

As a result, we believe that our work for Rangers was conscientious, thorough and properly performed in every respect.

"We believe" ? Not much confidence in their position , it's hardly a vindication. 

our work for Rangers was conscientious, thorough and properly performed in every respect. So what? All that says is, in effect, "we did our job properly", in their opinion. Hopefully D&P are worried about the impact of events on their business image - but then they were contacted a long time ago by an internet bampot on TSFM so they'v e had a long time too understand  what might be coming their way.

 

It will be interesting to see, as events unfold, just when D&P "performed" & " commissioned" all this and just what it was that triggered it? 

 

As for HMRC current involvement - Whyte got his choice of administrators - even though HMRC opposed it.

The difference now is that HMRC got their choice to have BDO appointed as liquidators.

[Tommy Brown]

Why do you think he recorded most of his coversations?

I bet there have been several copies made with instructions left with lawyers.

Well "Accidents" happen all the time, don't they?

I think the poster was aiming more at getting a good hiding from your average bear.

[merseyjambo]

Sounds like there may be a fire sale of assets in January.

 

Lewis MacLeod should be a certainty to be gone to keep their stupid wage bill afloat.

 

How many Bears will do walking away then

[tartofmidlothian]

I think the initial fakeover is the current scope, but no doubt it will bleed into greens takeover and the IPO, The telegraph hinted that Wallace and Nash have been to the SFO, It would be better all round if it all came out. To any huns looking in seriously guys you should be looking to force a public enquiry into the last 4 years of Rangers/Sevco and to include the SFA/SPL, lets expose the lot then we can cleanse our game.

 

Forget war chests and the Champions League, what Rangers fans do deserve is honesty about their club at last.

[pettigrewsstylist]

I think the main problem would be if it was decided that there was anything dishonest in the way that the Fixed Assets were sold to Green and co.. That would leave the creditors of Oldco looking for them to be disposed off to pay off the debts. That might well be the final nail in the coffin for them. Going to be very interesting to see how this all pans out. Ashley must now be taking advice and looking at his options. Can't see him continuing to drip feed in loans if the very assets that would be secured against his loans look like being snatched away from Sevco. A real can of worms will have been opened and it could all take a really protracted time to unravel.

If that is the case surely these assets will be be subject to a court order effectively ringfencing them from any securities against . This in turn must mean surely that , even with a further share issue, nobody is going to loan to them? i mean what else would they have as securities?

Edited November 16, 2014 by pettigrewsstylist

[DETTY29]

I think the initial fakeover is the current scope, but no doubt it will bleed into greens takeover and the IPO,  The telegraph hinted that Wallace and Nash have been to the SFO,  It would be better all round if it all came out.   To any huns looking in seriously guys you should be looking to force a public enquiry into the last 4 years of Rangers/Sevco and to include the SFA/SPL,  lets expose the lot then we can cleanse our game.

 

 

 

Forget war chests and the Champions League, what Rangers fans do deserve is honesty about their club at last.

Whilst it is the least they deserve, what about the rest of us?

 

Is this enquiry going to go in to why the LNS enquiry only started with EBTs and not DOS; why did the SPL lawyers not challenge any evidence from the football authorities,notably Bryson's Law; the 5 way agreement including 2 football entities; why did Rangers get a European licence in 2011.......

 

Yeah bring on a fully open independent enquiry.

 

What will we end up with though?  Look at those nasty football authorities who at one point had a draft 5 way agreement that said we will only give you a licence if you accept trophy stripping (which was well out of order) when the real deal was whether or not a licence should have been provided in the first place.

Edited November 16, 2014 by DETTY29

[Jambo-Jimbo]

You know guys, what I've always found strange was when Green said publicly that he had conned Whyte out of Rangers and Whyte just sat back and did nothing.

It makes you wonder if Whyte knew something Green didn't.

[Allowayjambo1874]

 

Forget war chests and the Champions League, what Rangers fans do deserve is honesty about their club at last.

 

Rangers fans do deserve honesty but I can guarantee that an inquiry, no matter who headed up, would be accused of all sort of bias or mischief making by a huge % of their support. 'No one like us we don't care' they are now as paranoid as the other arse cheek.

[Deevers]

Rangers fans do deserve honesty but I can guarantee that an inquiry, no matter who headed up, would be accused of all sort of bias or mischief making by a huge % of their support. 'No one like us we don't care' they are now as paranoid as the other arse cheek.

 

They can't handle the truth.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

They can if it fits into their own warped sense of entitlement, will they ever accept Sdm's ruinous tenure & the debt problem he was the architect of, ultimately leading to the use of ebt's & duel contracts that led to their liquidation?.

 

Hopefully the creditors will be able to push for the sale of the assets if it all reverts back to Bdo etc & sevco have to play out of Paisley paying rent to them. But that's another story for after this present case is held.

 

This case will blow everything wide open, the present owners of Sevco might be shown to not be the true legal owners if fraudulent practise can be proved.

 

Was talking to a hun yesterday and his thinking was that all of this has no impact whatsoever on the current Rangers or company as Green bought them from D&P, he really couldn't understand that if they were bought fraudulently to start with then they never belonged to Whyte in the first place and thus should never have been included in the Administration process as they still belonged to somebody else, at least that's my understanding of this.

[Mysterion]

Was talking to a hun yesterday and his thinking was that all of this has no impact whatsoever on the current Rangers or company as Green bought them from D&P, he really couldn't understand that if they were bought fraudulently to start with then they never belonged to Whyte in the first place and thus should never have been included in the Administration process as they still belonged to somebody else, at least that's my understanding of this.

 

Ooft - even with the (about) 5 seconds worth of thought I've given to this I can see that Rangers might become somewhat anorexic in terms of a business (with assets) - the Bluenose you spoke to is probably right to some extent (that being they'll continue to play in the league provided the operating companies involved don't go bust in the process).

Edited November 16, 2014 by Mysterion

[Armageddon]

Any impact on the big tax case?

[Diadora Van Basten]

Was talking to a hun yesterday and his thinking was that all of this has no impact whatsoever on the current Rangers or company as Green bought them from D&P, he really couldn't understand that if they were bought fraudulently to start with then they never belonged to Whyte in the first place and thus should never have been included in the Administration process as they still belonged to somebody else, at least that's my understanding of this.

Please remember that Green did not but them from D&P he bought the assets of Rangers FC from D&P.

[jambovambo]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/charlie-is-my-darling/#more-5302

 

Actually good stuff.

Edited November 16, 2014 by jambovambo

[Maiden Gorgie]

http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/charlie-is-my-darling/#more-5302

 

Actually good stuff.

 

[Hagar the Horrible]

We will find out the extent of the corruption tomorrow, and we should also see how MA reacts to this?  A Massive oil tanker of worms is about to open!     I bags first dibs in playing Ally in the film

[scottg71]

Tomorrow could be epic.

[Don Dan]

We will find out the extent of the corruption tomorrow, and we should also see how MA reacts to this?  A Massive oil tanker of worms is about to open!     I bags first dibs in playing Ally in the film

You'll need to pig out on pies and red wine to fit the character profile.

[Jamdub]

We will find out the extent of the corruption tomorrow, and we should also see how MA reacts to this?  A Massive oil tanker of worms is about to open!     I bags first dibs in playing Ally in the film

 

I am assuming you are a rotund,useless,lying, cheeky chappy, then the gig is yours.